Hayley's husband - SEE or SLE?

[Suz]

Hayley's husband here again. Christmas day was interesting. It made it clear from dinner with family and friends that Hayley gives me significant insight into how people around the table are taking the conversation, particularly if something not appropriate is being said. I tend not to pick this up then when she talks to me after the dinner about what happened I then understand and think how on earth did I miss all that!

yeah that could be either Fe or Fi at work and obviously people with strong Fi also have strong Fe. This is because the unvalued one is used in service to the valued one. The difference of which one is in the ego is rooted in motivation behind what you observed. Is Hayley doing so for the sake of preserving friendships (Fi-ego)? Or to keep the festive atmosphere intact (Fe-ego)?

I understand systems and processes and am good at solving problems in this area.

Likewise Te-egos are also strong in Ti. I'm not as good at explaining the difference between the two though. Are you more focused on efficiency, complete useful info, and accuracy (Te ego)? Or more on proper order, logical flow, internal consistency (Ti-ego)?

Hayley has people intuition and is not really interested in having many friendships as she is fulfilled just with one or two close friends.

this could represent serious quadra, but could also be sp/sx enneagram stacking, or both.

WorkaholicsAnon- Thanks for taking the time and responding in detail. I am not great at socionics but what you said had some things in it that matched bits of Hayley. I will have to read it several more times to better understand how much fit there is.

My pleasure, glad to help. Read the IEE description in the link I provided too.

[Suz]

Hayley's husband here. The more I think about this it just doesn't make sense that Hayley is extroverted. People really tire her out (sometimes that is just dealing with our small family not even people beyond that). If she gets alone time she shines.

I just want to comment that what you are associating with extraversion is the MBTI concept of it, not socionics. However, it's possible Hayley is EII imo, very possible. She actually VIs more EII to me (though VI isn't everything).

I read some istp descriptions for myself and part fits but the part that doesn't is the physical focus (i.e. healthy diets, sport, gym etc). I have really struggled disciplining myself to any of these and my natural state would avoid them.

The thing to keep in mind is that sometimes in descriptions certain actions are ascribed to the information elements that dont necessarily always manifest as such. I unfortunately can't really comment beyond this as far as SLIs go because the one SLI i got to know relatively closely seemed to naturally gravitate to such things. Maybe he didn't even notice that about himself. That's the thing with the dominant function is that it's so first nature to oneself that you dont really have to focus on it--it just happens. Focus seems to happen more with the creative function and the hidden agenda. The lack of discipline could be a manifestation of irrationality.

Si deals with being attuned to the physical aspects of people and things. Closely attuned to one's body, others' bodies' needs. Doesn't stop at peopls--also closely attuned to how things function--hence the practicality and being a good handyman. All i can say is you came across delta ST to me in the video. You might be SLI or LSE imo. Tbh I had trouble deciding between the two.

Anyway, if delta st isn't fitting because of the Si, I guess try checking out ILI.

[pianosinger]

Hayley's husband here. The more I think about this it just doesn't make sense that Hayley is extroverted. People really tire her out (sometimes that is just dealing with our small family not even people beyond that). If she gets alone time she shines.

This is me to an extent, too. Some extraverts are more introverted, and some introverts are more extraverted.

Not being an Fe-valuer, I think, could make an extravert appear more introverted; also, not being an Se-valuer. The IEE's most preferred extraverted functions are Ne and Te, which can both appear more subdued to the outside observer.

I don't know how it is for your wife, if she might be an ENFp. But I know for me, at least, I spend an awful lot of time in my head thinking, but it's all very extraverted thinking, if that makes sense. I'm noticing the world around me, constantly looking for possibilities. I am also an avid learner, always seeking out new information on topics of interest.

[Suz]

This is me to an extent, too. Some extraverts are more introverted, and some introverts are more extraverted.

Not being an Fe-valuer, I think, could make an extravert appear more introverted; also, not being an Se-valuer. The IEE's most preferred extraverted functions are Ne and Te, which can both appear more subdued to the outside observer.

I don't know how it is for your wife, if she might be an ENFp. But I know for me, at least, I spend an awful lot of time in my head thinking, but it's all very extraverted thinking, if that makes sense. I'm noticing the world around me, constantly looking for possibilities. I am also an avid learner, always seeking out new information on topics of interest.

I'm exactly the same way as well, which is why i'm being so insistent that the understanding be correct!

[pianosinger]

Hayley's husband here. The more I think about this it just doesn't make sense that Hayley is extroverted. People really tire her out (sometimes that is just dealing with our small family not even people beyond that). If she gets alone time she shines.

I read some istp descriptions for myself and part fits but the part that doesn't is the physical focus (i.e. healthy diets, sport, gym etc). I have really struggled disciplining myself to any of these and my natural state would avoid them.

You (hubby) might be ILI, then...and Hayley could be IEE...take a look at Illusionary relations. Illusionary is a relation of partial-duality. For an Irrational pair, this means having the rational functions in the same positions as each other's Duals.

My husband and I are IEE/ILI Illusionaries...

'Nother question, if you don't mind...How long have you two been married? Just wondering, because the way I'm thinking things should (theoretically) work out, is that in any sort of Dual-type relationship (including semi-dual and illusionary), if a couple stays close over a long period of time, they will gradually start to act more and more like each other in certain situations. See my thread titled "If Every Man Were an Island" in the User Articles section to see more what I mean.

[Suz]

Hayley's husband again:

Caught up with friends for lunch. The guy ( a trained psychologist and definate social networker ) comes across as ENFp and his wife INFj ( a reclusive, arty homemaker who suffers from high anxiety ). The ENFp talked about his dream for next year and the conversation turned to discussing what each of us bought to a group. On listening to all of this you could tell they probably were ENFp and INFj, however hayley came across as very much in between them, ie somewhere between INFj and ENFp. I think they are clearer in the systems usage, whereas Hayley picks from both.

When Hayley was younger she appeared more INFj than ENFp. Now she seems slightly more ENFp. Can the two functions in the ego block swap around as you get more life experience? From the social role descriptions below a younger Hayley matched the first social role of INFj (focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection), now she more matches the first social role of ENFP (self-appointed psychologist).

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Oh! This could be a subtype difference.

Maybe she's Fi-IEE or Ne-EII.

I'm Fi-IEE myself and often have thoughts of possibly being EII. But then I go reanalyze and realize that i'm still IEE (I take a lot more initiative with the external environment, than say compared to my EII sister).

[Suz]

No are not ILI, am very . At the moment I am sitting outside on the deck in a comfy chair with a sun umbrella and a easy to reach table with my coke and chocolate. Life is tough

We have been married 23 and a half years.

LOL you're SLI!

Or Si-LSE.

[Jarno]

Thanks to my husband for sharing thoughts about our types and for feedback from those interested .

I could indeed be Ne-EII or Fi-IEE but I also cannot rule out Te-ILI for myself.

if you are so much confused about your type, you might want to save subtype for later.

[Suz]

Thanks to my husband for sharing thoughts about our types and for feedback from those interested .

I could indeed be Ne-EII or Fi-IEE but I also cannot rule out Te-ILI for myself.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...atievskaya_ILI

http://www.socionics.com/prof/intp.htm

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=ILI_subtypes

the way your husband describes your people skills, I would say you're Fi-ego rather than Fi-HA.

[golden]

I can only say that the video that I saw was not of an ESTp, as I understand ESTp to be.

I'm not sure how any of this adds up, though, really. I'm confused at this point.

It's so cool that the whole family is in here trying to sort this out!

[The Ineffable]

Hayley- Delta NF
Hubby- Delta ST

So here's a question for you two: does you relationship feel more like a Dual relationship or an Activity relationship?

IMO they're EII and LSE. For Hayley I'm pretty certain for quite some time, her husband I agreed with SLI at some point, though I often forget details which I recall later - in this case easiness in delegating and taking the lead, LSE all the way among the two.

The little details I read remind my of my Dual relationship. Especially that "Oh, really? How did I miss that?". It's just awesome and it happens to us often, both ways. And the thing I observed in my case is that the more people live together growing a common culture, the more satisfactory these tips become. Outside Duality they grow differently, IMO, because of the other incompatibilities. For example, in my previous Semi-Dual relationship, indeed we grew a common culture and that understanding of few words as if they were thousands; but something felt like creating a separation in time, something like "oh, his/her shit again... blah blah" - not the same thing, it's like some sort of blockage floating around. To exemplify, one thing is the incapacity of Deltas to take an impersonal and objective approach on evaluating people's qualities, the opposite of what I'm trying to establish. It's ok to evoke great deeds, predictions or whatever, but not qualities, capacity or value - to them it's one thing to positively evaluate yourself (to them: boasting, or self-promotion), someone in the family (care for them, love, protection, promotion), friends (mutual help, or whatever kind of friendship it is) or "the rest of the world". Now take that "how did I miss that" and put it into two divergent contexts, for example: (1) "that he boasts so much", (2) "that he has such qualities" - and you can figure out one kind of blockage I'm talking about, it's impossible to be fully open or receptive with the approach you prefer versus the other one.

[Beautiful sky]

I agree with Hayley being IEE, after giving it considerable thought, and workaholics explanations gave some good suggestions and they were very well thought out. It makes sense because she always feels her husband is her dual and him being SLI is very clear from eating chocolate...lol. My dad is exactly the same way.

Hayley, I'm sorry I didn't see the intuitive part when I first thought about your type, but from your husband's description it seems to provide a very good description of how you can be it. Good job.

[Suz]

I agree with Hayley being IEE, after giving it considerable thought, and workaholics explanations gave some good suggestions and they were very well thought out. It makes sense because she always feels her husband is her dual and him being SLI is very clear from eating chocolate...lol. My dad is exactly the same way.

Hayley, I'm sorry I didn't see the intuitive part when I first thought about your type, but from your husband's description it seems to provide a very good description of how you can be it. Good job.

Thank you Maritsa for the support. I still stand by what I said re: Hayley's type; pretty convinced she's IEE or at the very least delta NF.

I should point out though that EVERYBODY loves chocolate. So that isn't make-or-break evidence for Hayley's husband being SLI.

[Suz]

Hayleys husband here.

I noticed that people use their 8th function to protect their dual. On the weekend I observed that Hayley was using Ti to protect me but I didn't understand it exactly until she explained what was occurring in her mind. We have friends that are moving and she worked out that the approach or system they were using to move houses heavily relied on myself and a friend to do the majority of the shifting. We both have had major back problems! Their approach is just not going to work and Hayley felt that it would cause my back further damage and consequently could very likely disrupt the system that works for our family (Hayley thinks in terms of long term consequences). I am the main income earner for the family and Hayley has set up a system around that to make our family work well and not fail.

Once she worked out that the moving system wasn't going to work she got extremely frustrated. It seemed that she then moved to Fe to express that frustration and became quite emotional. I read that frustration can come from the 4th function.

If I am right on this being the case then she is very likely to be INTp as it has Fe in the 4th place and Ti in the 8th and she is not the other type with those functions in the same slots which is SLI.

As for me, I seem to use Fe in the 8th function by working out when her negative passions aren't doing her any good. I then seem to use Ti in the 4th function to try and pull her out of her negative passion by explaining things logically. Making me a very likely SEE over the IEE.

Comments?

How can you tell Hayley's Fe was coming from the 4th function over the 8th function?

Fe-POLRs dont know how to use Fe well, and if they do have an Fe-outburst it's usually inappropriate. What you're attributing to Ti-usage actually sounds to me like heavy Si-value and Te, not Ti, with Se-role use in a stressful situation to get what she wanted for you. Fe is apparent because IEEs are good at it, they just dont value upkeeping the emotional atmosphere at the expense of the Fi-bond she has with you (which is consistent with Hayley's behavior).
You "working out when her negative passions aren't doing her any good" actually sounds like SiTe to me. That's SLI-like. Grounded, detached from emotion such that you see the negative effects of it on the body.

[Suz]

I think she first looks at the proposed approach from a very thinking systems perspective determining whether it will work or not, and on how the proposed approach will affect her dual (me). Seems like the 8th function is where this is occurring (in the background and considering the dual).

If from this she decides the proposed approach etc is stupid and it could adversely affect me and she doesn't see a solution she gets frustrated (4th function).

That's not how the 4th function works. People get frustrated and irritated by things that call attention to their 4th function and their inadequacy in it. It's not that people use their 4th function when they're frustrated, that's more role function, I think.

So to me that sounds like Ti-POLR (in Hayley, not you). She gets frustrated with her weak ability with systems thinking (when "she doesn't see a solution").

This frustration results in an outburst of negative emotional views about the proposed approach etc and also on other non-related events.

An Fe-POLR would not react this way.

I then do what she describes in this thread and try and cheer her up. As I understand her very well and that her strong negative feelings are only temporary, I know that I can help her get over it faster. If my attempts to cheer her up fail I do move to a logical argument approach which generally works.

Again, this sounds like a logics type (you) and an ethical type (Hayley) who is seeking logics (thus your applying logics to her emotions makes her feel better). Any type can aim to cheer up their loved one, that's not type related. You being so detached from the negative emotions so as to be able to understand them and see that they're only temporary, and speaking rationally about them to her points to weak and unvalued Fe in you (so delta ST or perhaps gamma NT). If you had strong Fe (such as in the 8th position) or if you were Fe-seeking, you would react to emotions with emotions.