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    Default Te vs Fe

    Can anyone give real world examples of the differences? I am trying to distinguish how to differentiate ENFJ from ENTJ...

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    part of me wants to say: Socionics doesn't exist. You just have to be less straight man ish and more caring and loving with other people if you want them to do something that you want to do.

    then the other part of me wants to say: ....

    no. Forget it.
    Socionics doesn't exist. You just have to be less straight man-ish with people and more loving and caring with other people if you want them to do something that you want to do.

    You want to be some leader entrepreneur-ish guy right? You want an easy cozy lifestyle while other people do the real work and you just want lots of money, right? Hey dude I'm actually not criticizing it. That's why america was founded. and why it's the best country to live in despite the obesity.

    Well the way to do that is to be as nice to me as possible. Not just nice to me, but nice and an ass-kiss to everybody you meet. Be so nice and personally understanding, I will buy your dvd with my own money or whatever bullshit you're selling to cover up pain: the only thing that's real. You can even be emotionally manipulative underneath the surface. It's not like some esfj housewife mother that works for you is going to know any better. But on the surface you have to do and say all the right things. (and if you play your cards right anybody will fall for it no matter how smart they are)

    You want to understand me. You think by understanding me you can economically control me. No, you can only economically control me by being as good to me as you possibly can. I'm the consumer. Your consumer. You are the creator, right? I'm a female (in spirit) If you want to be the creator then you have to care. Or I won't want to support you.

    Maybe I didn't say what you wanted to hear. You didn't really ask anything though. What you asked for doesn't exist, and so its unanswerable. It's an illusion. An empty space of air. Not even that. Air is real. Socionics is not. Socionics is anti-matter. I only told you how to make it in the real world, how to make it in society. You wanted to analyze people as having certain things you don't have so you can distance yourself away from them. it's a bit silly. You're a common whore like the rest of us. It's time to embrace it.

    how would fefe dobson greet me if we met? she'd be all omg i love you so much sam. and be nice to me. cause she wants my money. and cuz she was really caring id give it to her. and buy her cd. it can be the fakest thing on the planet. it doesnt' matter. i think being real is being fake. A lot of times people say they want 'something real' but they're really just avoiding showing up at the goddamn place and putting themselves in the physical concrete session like a real man. Instead they think they can figure things out from a geeky distance and ask things on internet message boards. No, no no nononononononononononononononNO. Just come up to me and give me my fruit basket and hug me. Even if you're not gay, i want you to hug me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobearcats View Post
    Can anyone give real world examples of the differences? I am trying to distinguish how to differentiate ENFJ from ENTJ...
    EIE- Glenn Beck.
    LIE- Bill Gates.

    In fiction:

    EIE- Scar (EIE-Te), the Joker (EIE-Ne), Jack Sparrow (EIE-Se), Michael Scott (EIE-Ti).
    LIE- Cutler Beckett (LIE-Te), Palpatine (LIE-Ne), Sauron (LIE-Te), Gordon Gekko (Same).
    Last edited by Aleksei; 12-20-2010 at 06:24 AM.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Let's start off with the fact that they belong to two different quadra. Second, one is Fe valuing and the other is Fi. There's a huge difference between Fe and Fi. Here's a good example. Fe types help people experience emotions and they enjoy being in an emotional atmosphere. For the most part, Fe types don't strive for efficiency, much prefer doing things to their own intuitions or sensations, while Te types strive for efficiency and more TeNi can take a lot of information, make it concise and see how this information can be used with regards to time, time in terms of investment. TeNi is still Se valuing so they would rather work to make money/business/invest, much like LSE, except LSE value Si, pleasant sensations rather then frantic working.

    Key words here in distinguishing FeNi and TeNi are:

    FeNi value emotions and an emotional atmosphere, as well as establishing trust because their dual has a hard time trusting.
    TeNi does not do what FeNi does, they work and gather information with aim on entreprenurialship. They value Fi because they themselves ignore the emotions of other and their own as they get sucked into an objective world full of work. They need someone to stay loyal to them as they focus on objects and keep Fi (a relationship) with them.

    FeNi ignores Fi feelings. Fi feelings are feeling of charity and goodwill, as well as feelings that effect the person that come from outside the person, like other people. Fe is the persons own emotions.

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    Gamma Te over Alpha Fe: "Yes that guy's something of an asshole, but... he's also a paying customer."

    Delta Te over Beta Fe: "I'll be honest with you man: you really piss me off. But a job's a job and we're not going to get it done if we sit here fighting all day."

    Alpha Fe over Gamma Te: "Well I don't agree with your business practices so... I'm going to take my business elsewhere."

    Beta Fe over Delta Te: "Fuck you, you bastard!! No way I'm gonna work for you you slave-driving son-of-a-bitch!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Delta Te over Beta Fe: "I'll be honest with you man: you really piss me off. But a job's a job and we're not going to get it done if we sit here fighting all day."
    That's just awkward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Second, one is Fe valuing and the other is Fi.
    OMGZ I HAD NO IDEA Fe WAS Fe VALUING THANK YOU MARITSA

    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobearcats View Post
    Can anyone give real world examples of the differences? I am trying to distinguish how to differentiate ENFJ from ENTJ...
    First thing you need to accept is that Te wins. Even when it appears Fe will win -- that's because Fe isn't real by Te is.

    (that's a joke)

    Things that will help you understand differences
    Quadra differences

    Particularly, Fe blocked with Ni, vs Fi blocked with Se (beta , gamma).

    More soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    OMGZ I HAD NO IDEA Fe WAS Fe VALUING THANK YOU MARITSA

    Shut the hell up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Shut the hell up.
    or what you're gonna sic that balloon on me? ooh I'm so scared
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    or what you're gonna sic that balloon on me? ooh I'm so scared
    It was a rude and cheap shot to a nice contribution from someone whose first language isn't English. It wasn't clever in the least.

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    Also I think when she says "Second, one is Fe valuing and the other is Fi", I think "one" refers to ENFj and "the other" refers to ENTj. Which isn't the redundancy you interpreted, "Fe is Fe valuing". She's simply replying to the specific context - the two types the OP referenced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    It was a rude and cheap shot to a nice contribution
    Cheap shot? I was being supportive. Didn't you notice the heart smileys?

    Your lack of faith makes Anakin sad.



    btw my first language isn't English either.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Both are Extraverts, so focus on things outside themselves, the Te on work, the Fe how other things in the objective world effect their own emotions...that's kinda simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    OMGZ I HAD NO IDEA Fe WAS Fe VALUING THANK YOU MARITSA

    back to you

    Why repeat everything on Wikisocion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Gamma Te over Alpha Fe: "Yes that guy's something of an asshole, but... he's also a paying customer."

    Delta Te over Beta Fe: "I'll be honest with you man: you really piss me off. But a job's a job and we're not going to get it done if we sit here fighting all day."

    Alpha Fe over Gamma Te: "Well I don't agree with your business practices so... I'm going to take my business elsewhere."

    Beta Fe over Delta Te: "Fuck you, you bastard!! No way I'm gonna work for you you slave-driving son-of-a-bitch!"
    Haha, awesome -- I actually agree with this. Spot on!
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    btw my first language isn't English either.
    I assumed that you were making fun of her English, but at closer look there was actually nothing technically wrong with what she said.

    If Senator Palpatine's face were made of heart smilies I wouldn't assume he was being supportive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    It was a rude and cheap shot to a nice contribution from someone whose first language isn't English. It wasn't clever in the least.
    Is it clever and not rude to type one five types, changing one's mind(?) every fucking second ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Gamma Te over Alpha Fe: "Yes that guy's something of an asshole, but... he's also a paying customer."

    Delta Te over Beta Fe: "I'll be honest with you man: you really piss me off. But a job's a job and we're not going to get it done if we sit here fighting all day."

    Alpha Fe over Gamma Te: "Well I don't agree with your business practices so... I'm going to take my business elsewhere."

    Beta Fe over Delta Te: "Fuck you, you bastard!! No way I'm gonna work for you you slave-driving son-of-a-bitch!"
    I agree with this too, actually! Well done. Rings very true ime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Is it clever and not rude to type one five types, changing one's mind(?) every fucking second ?
    Who does that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Who does that?
    Queen Mother Maritsa a.k.a Queen Mother Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Queen Mother Maritsa a.k.a Queen Mother Maritsa.
    She typed you 5 times?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    She typed you 5 times?
    No, she typed me 1000 times. Of course she typed me 5 types. That's 5 out of 16. She's done a better job than the entire forum so far as far the intervals go.

    Don't push crap on one when you, simply, don't have a clue of what you're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    No, she typed me 1000 times. Of course she typed me 5 types. That's 5 out of 16. She's done a better job than the entire forum so far as far the intervals go.

    Don't push crap on one when you, simply, don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
    Why did you let her type you 5 times if you dislike it so much? Is it not possible to put her on ignore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Why did you let her type you 5 times if you dislike it so much? Is it not possible to put her on ignore?
    I've never ignored anyone. That's, actually, the worst thing you can do to someone you don't even know, that said, I don't run from problems, like most of the buggers on here.

    If you want to ignore me or anyone reading this wants to, go ahead, I ain't going to stop you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I've never ignored anyone. That's, actually, the worst thing you can do to someone you don't even know, that said, I don't run from problems, like most of the buggers on here.

    If you want to ignore me or anyone reading this wants to, go ahead, I ain't going to stop you
    I like Maritsa's blog writings. When you kind of blur out the technical difficulties of what she says, the overall point has some insight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I like Maritsa's blog writings. When you kind of blur out the technical difficulties of what she says, the overall point has some insight.
    You like when shy types Delta STs as Beta STs and vice versa or maybe when she types Alpha SFs as Delta STs ?

    Come back to me.

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    I don't believe in every single thing she says about Socionics or every typing that she makes. That doesn't change the fact that what she posted was fine and I see no validity in Aleksei making fun of her. I am sorry that she typed you 5 times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    But where does she do this?
    Browse the forum, evidence abundant.

    1) She typed me SLI, SLE, IEI, LII, etc., for example.

    2) She typed mercatron SLI.

    3) ... something, I don't have the time to go through again. Check it for yourself or stay in a numbed state of mind, that is, enjoy yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Browse the forum, evidence abundant.

    1) She typed me SLI, SLE, IEI, LII, etc., for example.

    2) She typed mercatron SLI.

    3) ... something, I don't have the time to go through again. Check it for yourself or stay in a numbed state of mind, that is, enjoy yourself.
    There is too much other stuff in the world to care how many times Maritsa has typed you. Try to forget it and I'll try to not to insult Aleksei over a pointless issue, truce?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    There is too much other stuff in the world to care how many times Maritsa has typed you.
    Like telling her she's a nutjob. I agree.

    Try to forget it and I'll try to not to insult Aleksei over a pointless issue, truce?
    The fuck, what ? Where did I insult his holiness Aleksei ?

    Next time you better know what the hell you're talking about.

    Later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Like telling her she's a nutjob. I agree.
    lol.

    The fuck, what ? Where did I insult his holiness Aleksei ?

    Next time you better know what the hell you're talking about.

    Later.
    Are you schizophrenic? Do you speak fluent English?

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    Are you schizophrenic? Do you speak fluent English?
    Link it.

    EDIT: No, I don't speak fluent English, but you don't have a problem pointing it out, eh ?

    Actually, I speak English, Polish, German, a bit Dutch, Russian and Aramaic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Link it.

    EDIT: No, I don't speak fluent English, but you don't have a problem pointing it out, eh ?

    Actually, I speak English, Polish, German, a bit Dutch, Russian and Aramaic.
    Okay, so what about my sentence made you think that I said you were insulting Aleksei? Because I think you misunderstood there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Okay, so what about my sentence made you think that I said you were insulting Aleksei? Because I think you misunderstood there.
    Fuck me. Re-read it once again. Sorry, can be somewhat aggressive sometimes, after a beer and stuff. My bad. No hard feelings.

    Have a happy journey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Fuck me. Re-read it once again. Sorry, can be somewhat aggressive sometimes, after a beer and stuff. My bad. No hard feelings.

    Have a happy journey.
    I'm trying Might want a swig of yo beer

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I'm trying Might want a swig of yo beer
    I've had 8 of those, I don't know, beers ... but still have 2 left. Merry Christmas or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gobearcats View Post
    I am trying to distinguish how to differentiate ENFJ from ENTJ...
    When they talk about themselves, EIEs talk much about their wishes and hopes, while LIEs talk only about feasible plans. It depends on who they talk to, but you get the idea.

    I talked about the future with both EIE and LIE, EIEs are much more like me in this aspect - explore a lot of different scenarios; for example about creating a band, EIEs may discuss the perspective of inserting traditional instruments in the music and whether it's appropriate to have a strictly professional relationship with the future new members or feel comfortable with them, and so on. LIEs are like "yeah... yeah... we'll see" - they really don't focus something that's not applicable or has no use in the forseeable future, unless it's sort of a general discussion - like, you know, talking about bands in general.

    Not all the differences reduce to this, in case you wonder.
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    When they talk about themselves, EIEs talk much about their wishes and hopes, while LIEs talk only about feasible plans.
    I agree. This is largely how I see the division between Merry and Serious types.

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    Fe:

    The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.

    Te:

    Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively. Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process. In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else’s logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.

    Fe and Te are really easy to differentiate. They are opposite functions.

    ENFJs are more people oriented - ENTJs are more goal oriented and utilitarian. ENTJs rely more on principles, justice and being on even terms with everyone. ENTJs don't like to get into emotional games because they are awful with Fe and afraid of it even, but ENFJs are the masters of the emotional game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by entj View Post
    Fe:

    The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.

    Te:

    Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively. Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process. In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else’s logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.

    Fe and Te are really easy to differentiate. They are opposite functions.

    ENFJs are more people oriented - ENTJs are more goal oriented and utilitarian. ENTJs rely more on principles, justice and being on even terms with everyone. ENTJs don't like to get into emotional games because they are awful with Fe and afraid of it even, but ENFJs are the masters of the emotional game.
    This is an obligatory "This is MBTI." response.





    This is MBTI.

    (Even if it comes from a common Jungian source, isn't exactly labeled "MBTI" and some part of it make some sort of sense.)

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