How do Ni and Se ego types relate: a theory on why Ni needs Se

[jason_m]

I have a theory as to why you are Se-valuing:

- Generally out of touch with your senses.
- Perhaps so out of touch that you need strong, powerful stimuli to experience them clearly. (E.g, roller coasters, hot food, extremely sour food, etc.)
- Se-egos are perhaps the loudest, most boisterous of all socionics types.
- Therefore, they wake you up to your senses and bring you some much needed sensory relief.

Correct/Incorrect?

[EyeSeeCold]

Not sure if serious.

You know they are the same thing right? You could make observations, but there's no point in separating them because they always exist together.

[EyeSeeCold]

I do like rollercoasters . Although it seems I've become tolerant, I need a greater high.

[1981slater]

NI EGOS!!!

Off topic:

Give me a very offensive opinion on Si egos, plz!!!

[golden]

I have a theory as to why you are Se-valuing:

- Generally out of touch with your senses.
- Perhaps so out of touch that you need strong, powerful stimuli to experience them clearly. (E.g, roller coasters, hot food, extremely sour food, etc.)
- Se-egos are perhaps the loudest, most boisterous of all socionics types.
- Therefore, they wake you up to your senses and bring you some much needed sensory relief.

Correct/Incorrect?

Hm. I have wondered about some of these things, but I agree with some of the previous posters that it isn't so simple.

First, I don't think I'm out of touch with my senses in the least. My senses are extremely ... sensitive. Extremely.

As I type this, I'm thinking that a different way to oversimplify is to proceed in terms of "what feeds what." Like, one of the major ways that I can unleash Ni very powerfully is to seek out sensory experiences--arts, nature, certain kinds of travel. No doubt these things could be Si, but ... I'm sort of looking to be overwhelmed by something, have my socks knocked off. I have often used the language of needing to be moved "outside my comfort zone."

If, for example, I go to a symphony and my senses are completely "filled up" by powerful waves of sound and the vibration across my body, then I have beautiful strong Ni reactions ... at least, an aspect of Ni as I define it for myself so far. I'm released into something vast, timeless; I get an overview of my own life, my own being, insights pop up about all sorts of things, and I feel very restored and like "myself."

ETA: One could think that since I'm super-sensitive, it would be more logical for me to want softer experiences and to be with people who don't use Se very much. ???

This issue reminds me of my kid, who has some sensory-integration issues and has been in occupational therapy because of it. His senses are, even more than mine, very tender. And the way to soothe the senses, the way to integrate them neurologically, is not to avoid sensory input, or to hold back the kind of input, but to give more and more of it. Where he can't deal with a light touch, he can easily accept heavy pressure. I'm more or less like this as an adult. Light sensory input tends to irritate the hell out of me. Heavy input puts me at ease. If I get enough heavy input, I can tolerate the light input much more easily.

[FDG]

- Generally out of touch with your senses.

Could be. There is no way I would be able to know if I am or I am not, given that I can't experience my own senses from another perspective.

- Perhaps so out of touch that you need strong, powerful stimuli to experience them clearly. (E.g, roller coasters, hot food, extremely sour food, etc.)

Uhm, no, I don't like most of those experiences you listen, they're over-stimulating. I can stand very cold and very hot weather though without too much trouble, perhaps that's just another way to define the same phenomena.

- Se-egos are perhaps the loudest, most boisterous of all socionics types.

Doubtfully. I'm a lot louder and boisterous than most ISFjs I know.

[Creepy-male]

Give me a very offensive opinion on Si egos, plz!!!

Myopic, closed-minded lazy bums and relentless workaholics.

[pianosinger]

My ILI does seem to require a lot of Se in order to pull him out of his own mind. I have to physically poke and prod him, or yell at him (but kindly) sometimes before I can get his full attention.

First, I don't think I'm out of touch with my senses in the least. My senses are extremely ... sensitive. Extremely.

Yeah. I think having Si-Role would make one less-incline towards Si pursuits, but when in the midst of an Si-activity, would be very attuned to the experience. At least, this is how it seems to be with my ILI. When he and I are...ahem, participating in a sensual experience together, he will be very focused, whereas my mind is still wandering all over the place.

No, overall they're really not IME. If I were to pick one, I'd say Fe-valuing extroverts seem the loudest/most boisterous to me—in general. There's exceptions though.

^This.

[Ave]

Im actually not so out of touch with my senses. I would say INTjs are the type most out of touch with their senses, they dont expereince them at all from what I hear. I would say that needing strong sensory stimuli is true for me, but I dont know if Ni egos are the loudest of all the types, that award goes to the se egos I would say.

[Ave]

Doubtfully. I'm a lot louder and boisterous than most ISFjs I know.

Maybe ISFjs are the quiestest of the Se types, especially the Fi subtypes.

[717495]

ESFps aren't always that loud (or annoying is the better word in my case), especially when you don't want them to be. I like quiet... and they can usually be quiet, polite, tactful, what have you. But they seem strong and they really do stuff, and sense their boundaries and power, in a very spontaneous and free manner that really awakens me and pumps me up. It's sometimes kind of like I'm under their wing and they protect me, because they're so realistic, in the moment, etc.

I definitely agree that dominants are not in touch with their senses and reality that much, we need types to bring us from our inertia. (selftyped IEIs who have not agreed with this I've typed either EIE or SEE in the past, because of their confusion. That's really just how we are, and why we're -seeking. Else we could find a partner who would wake up our unconscious selves with such ease, you know? We can really be quite lost without our dual, or some kind of dependent energy there.) I've written a nice few paragraphs about why I love dominants on here, maybe a month or two ago. I wonder if I can find it. It was explaining the difference between s and Si-EJs, where s aren't really that forceful, they are light on their feet, tend of act quickly, as though barely boldly and tactfully, with each bit of momentary power they hold and don't hold you down to obligation.

[EyeSeeCold]

Duality is cool, but activity is much more sober. It's kind of hard to keep up with dominants when they're accentuating and you either merge into one or get swept under lol. With activity , you have just as much confidence, but there is still some air of detachment.

I have to say the best groups are 3/4-4/4 Quadra or Activity +2.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

- Se-egos are perhaps the loudest, most boisterous of all socionics types.

mmaybe this applies to fixated Se leadings but ,still ,don't forget *nurture*.i mean that you have to get to know/observe the person for a long period of time.

(E.g, roller coasters, hot food, extremely sour food, etc.)

although i haven't typed an adequate amount of people as Ni egos,i don't think that the ones i actually have would appreciate such uhm "pleasures" of life as much as you probably think they would.it's as if they can't be bothered getting too enthusiastic about them .maybe because what you mention is mostly related to Si.

[glam]

I have a theory as to why you are Se-valuing:

- Generally out of touch with your senses.
- Perhaps so out of touch that you need strong, powerful stimuli to experience them clearly. (E.g, roller coasters, hot food, extremely sour food, etc.)
- Se-egos are perhaps the loudest, most boisterous of all socionics types.
- Therefore, they wake you up to your senses and bring you some much needed sensory relief.

Correct/Incorrect?

i just need someone to make me do shit.

/half-joking

[Marie84]

seeking is a subconscious need to be mobilized out of a state of inertia (). I don't think it necessarily has to involve extremes like speed or food, which sound more like personal preferences than being type related

I see and playing similar roles in arousing movement, in that physically motivates the out of their internal mental sluggishness while mentally activates out of their internal physical sluggish; both and get and to "move" in this regard, which is usually more evident in the irrational types with those ego functions

Like;
Ni: *reflects* insecurely talks about reflection
Se: "let's do it" this is how it will be done, etc
Ni: *is relieved*

Ni is indecisive and languid, Se is decisive and active. Ni needs Se to move, Se needs Ni to know when and when not to move (needs Ni's reflective ability)

btw I don't think Se is necessarily boisterous, maybe overtly opinionated or obstinate (which goes back to decisiveness) so it may depend on the Se and how they feel; like an Se who thinks being loud and vulgar is obnoxious would unlikely come across as boisterous

[FDG]

Maybe ISFjs are the quiestest of the Se types, especially the Fi subtypes.

ISTjs are marginally less quiet - still IJ types, even if they can become quite animated when interacting socially. I'm going to go as far as saying that often ENTjs can be more animated and boisterous than ESTps, due to role and EJ temperament.

Somehow, I believe that duality (or activity, or illusionary) works in a more indirect fashion. With your complementary types, what's usually happens is:
1) either they do something for you that you couldn't do - just use directly the functions you're weak in
2) or, by doing naturally something that might be difficult for you, they "lead by example".

you won't really find duals actually pushing each other 5th and 6th functions, because they're weak.

[FDG]

A lot of this strikes me as being a temperament difference, rather than something about /.

IPs in general are prone to inertia and shutting out the external world in favor of their own subjective perceptual state (via /).

Whereas EJs tend to be the most naturally active, in terms of continuous energy output, and among the least likely to be indecisive. So none of this would fit w/ ENXjs.

Yeah exactly.

[717495]

I see and playing similar roles in arousing movement, in that physically motivates the out of their internal mental sluggishness while mentally activates out of their internal physical sluggish; both and get and to "move" in this regard, which is usually more evident in the irrational types with those ego functions

Yes this makes sense in my experience, they don't affect each other like extinguishment would, where and have polar opposing processes, they're much more smoothly activating.

Also I tend to see dominants not as inert, they're introverted, but typically more proactive or ordered (which is kind of why I see them handle quite easily too, it aids their ordered process really well). Though realistic is a better word for S rather than Ns, in my opinion, the difference between ISTj and INTj, or ISTp and INTp. Usually INTj being proactive and ordered doesn't have a lot necessarily to do with direct reality, more in their field of study and thought, and I've seen them be typed INTP in MBTI because the material rules over their reality. INTJ and INFJ are not really the rarest types, just ones that have been ill-defined and harder to get on tests because they define being J more in terms of being S. Anyone else notice this? I tend to think creatives don't really give as much a crap about planning and schedules and I've known a couple of INTJs in my life who are ISTj in Socionics. That seems to be the most probable type for them: being a representation of their perception of N or theory, and being the sense of reality and, combined with , the element of Judging and simplifying things realistically, in other words 'ordering reality.'

[Creepy-male]

Just FTR, what has been said is probably the closest thing to the "textbook" definition of Se-dual seeking we have in the west for socionics.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_sensing

Se as a suggestive (5th) function (IEI and ILI)

The individual is often characterized by his inertia. If left to his own devices, he may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When he does interact with the outside world, he often finds his activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To this individual, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For him, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. He is often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, he requires an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into his life, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which he can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind.

He is additionally very indecisive. He may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially with regards to his own future. He may know what he wants to achieve out of life in a broad or long term sense, but will find it very difficult to set and finish the short term projects leading to it. In order to be able to act, he needs a tangible and definite stimulus from somebody well grounded in external reality and who has a clear picture of what must be done in a certain situation.

This only applies to Ni-base function btw, Ni-ego has a totally different take on Se provided on the website.

Btw I don't want to be a downer in saying this, but I don't think duality is merely a perfect relationship or that all an Ni-needs is a little Se in his/her life to solve their problems... I don't think life and conflict is reducible to such a simplistic level, but I do think that in so far as this definition is concerned it provides an accurate viewpoint.... The combination of Ni+Se is nice in its own way observing it play out in relationships. Se basically gives Ni the needed experiences, and Ni gives Se the depth ... see the reciprocal http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...rted_intuition. Ni without Se seems detached and melancholy, Se without Ni seems shallow and plastic.

[Blaze]

I have a theory as to why you are Se-valuing:

- Generally out of touch with your senses.

Ni leading maybe but not Ni creative

- Perhaps so out of touch that you need strong, powerful stimuli to experience them clearly. (E.g, roller coasters, hot food, extremely sour food, etc.)

true for Ni leading, esp IEI. they are massively internally focused and need a huge jolt of sensory reality to make them come out.

- Se-egos are perhaps the loudest, most boisterous of all socionics types.
- Therefore, they wake you up to your senses and bring you some much needed sensory relief.

Correct/Incorrect?

you could be on to something, although it would be hard for Ni egos to admit! on the other hand, i think the Ni creatives pay a lot more attention to the outside, being extraverts. esp LIE's....slow languid people they are not.

[Creepy-male]

Eh? has nothing to do with depth just as has nothing to do with being shallow. These are attributes of people, not IEs.

That's how it works with Ni base and Se base together.....

You're probably thinking about yourself and your dual in which case it works completely different, as the IEs are faceted into different blocks. For example Se in ENxj's takes it place as a hidden agenda and has a completely different meaning that what Jason is saying. Just read wikisocion.

Also IEs are types of information cognition.... information cognition preference produces unique behavior in individuals, which results in a personality type. Yes I am describe behavioral traits but they logically correlate back to the type of information that a person prefers. Se isn't shallow, but individual who value this information above others can typically come across shallow as a direct result of valuing Se. Ni isn't deep, but individuals who values this information above others can typically come across deep as a direct result of valuing Ni. Ultimately Ni and Se are abstract notions that have little bearing outside discussion of personality, so I'd figure I'd just cut to the chase.