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Thread: Do AT&T callcenters discriminate against alpha NTs?

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    Default Do AT&T callcenters discriminate against alpha NTs?

    Applied for a position at a local AT&T call center. Took a screening test that had 150 questions. It was one of those "alarm bell" tests where they ask you, blatantly, whether of not you have stolen from work, been late to work, etc. Of course there are right and wrong answers, or else no one would be disqualified.

    Used to be, I'd ace these tests pretty easily. In recent years though, the old strategies (strongly disagree with anything that indicates laziness or criminal disposition) aren't working as often. This time I was asked no less than 7 questions which seemed to point towards NT club, even 4 of which pointed directly to alpha NT. "I like to think about theories, possibilities." "I like to test hypotheses." "I am a logical person." And wouldn't you know it, I didn't pass.

    Not every LII or ILE works at a university or a lab. How are LII people supposed to find work if they get discriminated against for being them? Nor does being LII have anything to do with taking inbound service requests.

    But that's the negative side-effect of type tech: it's being misused, to the point that the society suffers in a way that wasn't possible before.

    Next time I'll just respond as if I were an ESFJ.

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    They want mindless drones that don't criticize the organization and focus on the job without daydreaming.

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    That's dumb. Then they're not gonna get anyone who's genuinely good at customer service (like myself).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

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    Race, Sex, and Age discrimination are things of the past. Welcome to personality discrimination!
    /

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    ... or they didn't hire you for some other reason.

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    FWIW, what kinda call-center, tcaud?

    Sales?

    Customer Service?

    Tech Support?

    I could sorta see you in the last one, but the other two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    ... or they didn't hire you for some other reason.
    Well, given that I got an automated email message right after the test, and they had invited me to take it after reviewing my application, I don't think it could have been any other reason.

    I've done tech support, yeah. This one was customer service.

    Dad was counting on me getting it. I haven't told him yet, and when he find out he'll be mad as hell. (maybe I won't tell him, cause they didn't call anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    customer service.
    That's the problem right there. They probably need an extrovered ethical type who can reassure people and pull on their sympathy strings when shit hits the fan. If I were boss that's the type of customer service I'd try to provide as well.

    Not saying you can't do it tcaud, but the idea that certain types of personalities aren't cut out for certain jobs is a time and money-saving heuristic, hence the purpose of job interviews. Nobody'd want a greedy, stingy miser to be the boss of a charity, and nobody'd expect a hippy to sucessfully run a multi-national corporation.

    Try applying for tech support.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Guess it's kinda rhetorical now, but...

    Do you react well to insanely pissed-off people?

    (True Story: My Mom calls up AT&T for a good scream, like, twice a week.)

    EDIT: jxrtes beat me to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That's the problem right there. They probably need an extrovered ethical type who can reassure people and pull on their sympathy strings when shit hits the fan. If I were boss that's the type of customer service I'd try to provide as well.

    Not saying you can't do it tcaud, but the idea that certain types of personalities aren't cut out for certain jobs is a time and money-saving heuristic, hence the purpose of job interviews. Nobody'd want a greedy, stingy miser to be the boss of a charity, and nobody'd expect a hippy to sucessfully run a multi-national corporation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Applied for a position at a local AT&T call center. Took a screening test that had 150 questions. It was one of those "alarm bell" tests where they ask you, blatantly, whether of not you have stolen from work, been late to work, etc. Of course there are right and wrong answers, or else no one would be disqualified.

    Used to be, I'd ace these tests pretty easily. In recent years though, the old strategies (strongly disagree with anything that indicates laziness or criminal disposition) aren't working as often. This time I was asked no less than 7 questions which seemed to point towards NT club, even 4 of which pointed directly to alpha NT. "I like to think about theories, possibilities." "I like to test hypotheses." "I am a logical person." And wouldn't you know it, I didn't pass.

    Not every LII or ILE works at a university or a lab. How are LII people supposed to find work if they get discriminated against for being them? Nor does being LII have anything to do with taking inbound service requests.

    But that's the negative side-effect of type tech: it's being misused, to the point that the society suffers in a way that wasn't possible before.

    Next time I'll just respond as if I were an ESFJ.
    I used to work for them and it was important to weed out the left leaning political activists. Often we'd just give em the test you mentioned to cover our own backs. There were lots of checks before that test and most often the decision had already been made.

    No idea how I got to work there, but yes, I was 'forced' out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoshyant View Post
    Race, Sex, and Age discrimination are things of the past. Welcome to personality discrimination!
    Goodie.
    I've been wanting to hire people by typing them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Goodie.
    I've been wanting to hire people by typing them.
    Have you considered the implications? Introverts tend to have much more difficulty finding work than extroverts. (or are you guys gonna keep us up? )

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Have you considered the implications? Introverts tend to have much more difficulty finding work than extroverts. (or are you guys gonna keep us up? )
    No, no-that's the problem now. The way I would do it is type them then hire the type that would be good at the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    I've been wanting to hire people by typing them.
    Quote Originally Posted by DA
    The way I would do it is type them then hire the type that would be good at the job.
    As "Queen of HR", what would you hire tcaud for?

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    They used to have this really reliable method for telling whether they thought someone would be a good employee or not... it was called: AN INTERVIEW

    Now they have automated tests to determine such things... great.

    While I'm against the usage of these annoying little tests, you can't take them too seriously, just try to be consistent, answer like a mindless work drone would, but don't seem TOO phony and you'll be fine. Apply enough places and you'll get hired, sometimes its not because you failed the test, maybe its just bad timing and a lack of luck, no one will ever actually tell you the reason why unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    They used to have this really reliable method for telling whether they thought someone would be a good employee or not... it was called: AN INTERVIEW
    I heard that wasn't actually very reliable.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I heard that wasn't actually very reliable.
    Well its more reliable than a test...

    Either way some guy has to interpret the results and make a decision. Just when there is a test its more disconnected from reality. Anyone can fake a test, but its a lot harder to act and fake an interview although still possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    No, no-that's the problem now. The way I would do it is type them then hire the type that would be good at the job.
    I don't think you understand the situation: there is less need in the market for LIIs than for say, your type. So there are fewer LII-specific opportunities. Basically your approach makes it harder for LIIs to get a job. (probably EIIs as well)

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    , you can't take them too seriously, just try to be consistent, answer like a mindless work drone would, but don't seem TOO phony and you'll be fine.
    I actually saw the little e-dossier that my online application had generated from when I got my current job. My boss had left it open on her monitor so I took a looksee while she was rooting around for the little training pamphlet package jamboree. Based on your answers you got one of three colors, RED for, "Oh hell naw!" YELLOW for, "Geez, I dunno, guy's a mess. Maybe. Maybe." And then GREEN for, "This guy's legit, hire him."

    So, basically, assuming most systems are the same (and I have no reason to think they wouldn't be), the HR guy never even gets to see how you answered. He just deletes out all the reds, and gives all the greens first call for interviews. So really, be as fake and phony as you like. All that experience from taking personality test after personality test has finally found an outlet!

    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    [size=2](True Story: My Mom calls up AT&T for a good scream, like, twice a week.)
    Really? But why?
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    Quote Originally Posted by he died with a felafel View Post
    Well, maybe you can see what the job actually requires and answer accordingly? I mean, you don't *have* to tell them you like theory and such (sorry, simplifying here). I mean, that's none of their business so long as you can actually do the job.

    I don't see why Alpha NT can't do customer service - the calls you get are of a technical nature, usually anyway, or related to user plans. Don't see why they'd be looking for extroverts. Yeah, it's pretty formalized though, as tasks go.

    Anyway, you don't need to tell them everything, like, where you keep your soul, for instance lol.

    Anyway, sorry, that sucks.
    Unfortunately, the job market is packed with people who're better qualified than Alpha NTs (though I don't think tcaud is one, but that's for another thread) to handle this kind of work. It's not a question of whether we can do it because anyone can certainly pass, but whether someone can do it well - i.e. appears to show more sympathy towards the customer and act as the polished and pristine face of the company.

    That's coming from an Alpha NT whose first two jobs were customer service btw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    This time I was asked no less than 7 questions which seemed to point towards NT club, even 4 of which pointed directly to alpha NT. "I like to think about theories, possibilities." "I like to test hypotheses." "I am a logical person." And wouldn't you know it, I didn't pass.

    Not every LII or ILE works at a university or a lab. How are LII people supposed to find work if they get discriminated against for being them? Nor does being LII have anything to do with taking inbound service requests.

    But that's the negative side-effect of type tech: it's being misused, to the point that the society suffers in a way that wasn't possible before.

    Next time I'll just respond as if I were an ESFJ.
    It's hard being an alpha NT. Normal people hate us. So what? Nothing wrong with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    My Mom calls 'em up for a good scream, like, twice a week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight
    Really? But why?
    I think it's some sorta Fe-cathartic thing (i.e. "I feel bad. Must make someone else feel bad with me.").

    If she drops it on me, I'll likely kick a hole in the wall.

    If she drops it on Pradesh halfway around the globe, well, everybody's happy.

    (And if she drops it on tcaud...)

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    I'm not AT&T. I had nothing to do with it. Just wait until she is done and read the script, lol.

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    Add a couple "Upsells" post-lol and the job woulda been yours!

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    FedEx is always hiring, tcaud.

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    You could get a job cleaning toilets, you don't need people skills for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You could get a job cleaning toilets, you don't need people skills for that.
    I was told once that janitors have the highest amount of job satisfaction, since they get to see the tangible results of their work immediately after they do it. Well, tcaud, being in a Si-valuing quadra, there may be something to that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    I was told once that janitors have the highest amount of job satisfaction, since they get to see the tangible results of their work immediately after they do it. Well, tcaud, being in a Si-valuing quadra, there may be something to that.
    I'm not being entirely facetious. I don't mind doing jobs others might look down on, and you are right about the satisfaction from seeing results of your labour.

    There's another thing, and that's while your hands work your mind is free to theorise, which tcaud says he likes.

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    Hell, now that you mention it, with my poor sense of smell, I might find a janitorial job pretty enjoyable.
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    I would take a janitor/ cleaning the toilet job and have everyone know about it than dealing with people work or need to play politic games with team members or the public, assuming the pay is the same. I am a E-3 and I can deal with people much better than others and I would prefer not, so for others who is more introvert or NT it would have been even harder for them. Manual labor doesn't scare me as long as I don't work in a sweatshop or factories with no bathroom break.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
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    2)
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    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    I was told once that janitors have the highest amount of job satisfaction, since they get to see the tangible results of their work immediately after they do it. Well, tcaud, being in a Si-valuing quadra, there may be something to that.
    I am a Si-polr but you're right that I don't pay much attention to my final result of works that I have done, since my mind would jump into the next thing, like trying to improve the next aspect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    As "Queen of HR", what would you hire tcaud for?
    I'd let him try my job. If he's good at it, he can have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I am a Si-polr but you're right that I don't pay much attention to my final result of works that I have done, since my mind would jump into the next thing, like trying to improve the next aspect.
    Yeah, the stereotype I read of Si-valuing types is a preference for physical labour and a desire for short-term, tangible results over long-term, intangible ones. Though the more I read about Socionics, the less useful these kinds of stereotypes seem.

    Edit: See this is what I mean. Reading back over this I think, "Well hell, who doesn't like short-term tangible results?" I mean, I'm going to assume there aren't any types that prefer to never see the results of their work that will take them many years to accomplish.

    Still, scrubbing toilets and mopping floors is a hell of a way to earn money!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    I actually saw the little e-dossier that my online application had generated from when I got my current job. My boss had left it open on her monitor so I took a looksee while she was rooting around for the little training pamphlet package jamboree. Based on your answers you got one of three colors, RED for, "Oh hell naw!" YELLOW for, "Geez, I dunno, guy's a mess. Maybe. Maybe." And then GREEN for, "This guy's legit, hire him."
    Yea obviously, so basically you just got to get into that green zone, computers aren't smart though there are pre-established criteria the test uses and just play to that pre-established criteria.

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    I got rejected from various retail jobs that I applied for a while back. I know some of them involved these weird ethical integrity tests. One of them had a bunch of hypothetical scenarios and asked what you would do but several of the options sounded right. Either I have weak ethics or I overthought the questions. Because I was told that I failed at least one of the tests.
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    A literal reading of Alice in Wonderland made more sense...

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I got rejected from various retail jobs that I applied for a while back. I know some of them involved these weird ethical integrity tests. One of them had a bunch of hypothetical scenarios and asked what you would do but several of the options sounded right. Either I have weak ethics or I overthought the questions. Because I was told that I failed at least one of the tests.
    I may have had something similar in the past. I remember one of the questions was what would I do if I saw a collegue steal something belonging to the workplace, and I said I'd do nothing. For whatever reason I somehow passed.

    I suppose realistically who HASN'T stolen something from work, even if it's just a paperclip, so I suppose I was honest in a way, lol.

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