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Thread: Which socionics type wants/needs to hold hands to guide through traffic?

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    Default Which socionics type wants/needs to hold hands to guide through traffic?

    The desire/need to hold hands and be guided/helped through busy traffic, through busy malls etc be Si or Se seeking? Which type would need it?

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    Age-related?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Age-related?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    Age-related?
    Nope, not talking age related

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    Agoraphobia-related?

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    Who knows? Maybe there's something to this. The guys I've been with who seemed Si-valuing, if they held my hand in public, they weren't usually guiding me anywhere. They were holding my hand to show affection or signal togetherness, just a thing-in-itself. They tended to walk more slowly than I like.

    The apparently Se-valuing guy I'm currently with will hold my hand for those "nice" reasons, but when it comes to public places he sometimes really has to hold my hand and guide me. (Yeah, this makes me sound like a wuss.) He's the only guy I've ever been with who actually walks faster than I do, and he makes bolder decisions than I do about how to navigate a trail or negotiate crowds and traffic. If he weren't holding on to me, I would end up way behind him or stuck, lost. He gets frustrated walking at a slow pace, as do I. I can see how some people would feel like they were being dragged along by him.

    The difference between his fast walking and mine ... I just have a much quieter physical presence. People on the sidewalk--for example--don't automatically part to let me by like they do him, so my strategy when I'm alone is to thread my way nimbly in and out between people. I can't use that strategy much when I'm with him, 'cause he can't fit in those small spaces etc., and people would notice what he was doing and might get pissed off.

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    I guess if anyone (baring they're not a child or mentally challenged) it would be an Ne? Possibly in some instances Ni? Sounds like a need to be protected, which could be associated with weak

    But yeah, I wouldn't take this as anything but a presumption. I'd think the Ne guys especially will take this as a slant against their manhood or something if you do
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    Actually I think it might be an Fe thing in combination with either Si or Se. I personally dont care about a significant other holding my hand when crossing in traffic. It never even crossed my mind to even want that. In fact i'm not even sure i would enjoy that at all. I mean like once in a blue moon or something, spontaneously, like "come on, lets go" is fine, but to hold my hand every time we cross the street, I'd feel a little sheepish and annoyed. I AM in fact, an adult.

    Seems like IEE Felafel also feels that way, from her response. So no, not an Ne thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I'd think the Ne guys especially will take this as a slant against their manhood or something if you do
    Yes. Our egos are a little bit too big to accept things like that. So dont you dare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    Yes. Our egos are a little bit too big to accept things like that. So dont you dare.
    It's not just the men, it's the women too as you can see, Ssmall.
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    i personally enjoy that sort of thing, but "need?"

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    I think wanting to be led is more seeking? I dunno.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I think wanting to be led is more seeking? I dunno.
    You could be correct. I enjoy it, but I'm just one person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    You could be correct. I enjoy it, but I'm just one person.
    While setting up for a gig I gave our IEI bandmember a choice of places where she could stand. Since I didn't mean to sound like I was giving orders I told her it was just a suggestion. Her response was that she didn't mind being told what to do. So perhaps this is common with the indecisive INFp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    While setting up for a gig I gave our IEI bandmember a choice of places where she could stand. Since I didn't mean to sound like I was giving orders I told her it was just a suggestion. Her response was that she didn't mind being told what to do. So perhaps this is common with the indecisive INFp.
    That's not the same as the OP... Suggestive Se is wanting to be guided through exhausting situations, thus following other's orders. Wanting somebody to hold your hand is not Se related...

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    Quote Originally Posted by twitch View Post
    The desire/need to hold hands and be guided/helped through busy traffic, through busy malls etc be Si or Se seeking? Which type would need it?
    The blind type???
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    I think i was racing when i posted this thread opener.. and i should have said they appreciate the guidance, not need.

    I have talked with an IEI and she said one of her favourite things and noticable things with her relationship with SLE is that when he is in busy situtions like walking through traffic, malls etc.. that he takes her hand and guides her through it all in such an amazing and fast way. Which makes her feel safe and secure and loved.

    I think some of you like Golden and k0rps3y may understand what i mean..

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    The only time I'd ever think this is necessary would be during a really crowded concert or mall or something. Other than that, seriously? lol. I hate holding hands, it's so awkward no matter who it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twitch View Post
    I think i was racing when i posted this thread opener.. and i should have said they appreciate the guidance, not need.

    I have talked with an IEI and she said one of her favourite things and noticable things with her relationship with SLE is that when he is in busy situtions like walking through traffic, malls etc.. that he takes her hand and guides her through it all in such an amazing and fast way. Which makes her feel safe and secure and loved.
    Not Se related...

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    Quote Originally Posted by twitch View Post
    The desire/need to hold hands and be guided/helped through busy traffic, through busy malls etc be Si or Se seeking? Which type would need it?
    Don't hold hands while driving in busy traffic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Actually I think it might be an Fe thing in combination with either Si or Se. I personally dont care about a significant other holding my hand when crossing in traffic. It never even crossed my mind to even want that. In fact i'm not even sure i would enjoy that at all. I mean like once in a blue moon or something, spontaneously, like "come on, lets go" is fine, but to hold my hand every time we cross the street, I'd feel a little sheepish and annoyed. I AM in fact, an adult.

    Seems like IEE Felafel also feels that way, from her response. So no, not an Ne thing
    Another reason why we like IEEs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
    I find my SLE's desire to hold hands in busy situations and in quiet situations very attractive.
    In busy crowds his holding my hand helps me to keep up to him, not get lost and left behind. He usually knows exactly where he is going, how to get and is more aware than me. Also people move out of his way. Whereas I kind of get lost sometimes, walk at a slower pace, and are more in my own world.

    He takes hold of my hand and takes me to new experiences.

    My husband has even helped my friend who is the same type as myself in the last few weeks to travel to and from hospital safely while she has cancer treatment. He was appalled that her husband was not going to help her in this situation.

    So yes I appreciate this about him and it does make me have good feelings.
    All of this sounds very familiar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
    My husband has even helped my friend who is the same type as myself in the last few weeks to travel to and from hospital safely while she has cancer treatment. He was appalled that her husband was not going to help her in this situation.
    By leading her to the hospital holding her hand??

    Meaning her husband wasn't going to hold her hand? Or her husband wasn't going to drive her there or be involved at all in getting her there which, though absolutely sweet and good of your husband to help and horrible of her own husband, is a non-sequitur to what we're talking about and beside the point.
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    This is not type related... this sounds more like a dependency issue. That is... of feeling lost and helpless in a strange and unfamiliar environment. Such a person probably has a hard time making decisions on his/her own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WA
    [That's] a non-sequitur to what we're talking about and beside the point.
    Maybe a stretch, but... could Hayley be the "IEI" of OP?

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    Eh. I really don't see this as a dependency issue. If I have such an issue, it's manifest elsewhere.

    Rather, between me and someone who has a ton of Se going on, the way he makes his way through space pretty much requires me to hold on for the ride. He carves his way through crowds much more easily than I do. I can't keep up with him unless he takes me by the hand, there's just no way.

    As for the woman with cancer, my mom's husband was very unhelpful to her when she had cancer, and that is exactly the sort of thing that would appall the guy I'm currently with, and yeah, he would step in to help, just as Hayley described. I didn't get that she was talking about hand holding. She was talking about a sense of protecting and helping in a physical way, I thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I didn't get that she was talking about hand holding. She was talking about a sense of protecting and helping in a physical way, I thought.
    this is how i took it, too.

    i've associated "helping in a physical way" with Si caregiving, but the Se references in this thread are making sense to me, too. so maybe this particular instance isn't so type-related, or maybe it depends on what kind of feelings and memories come to mind for whoever happens to think about the example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Eh. I really don't see this as a dependency issue. If I have such an issue, it's manifest elsewhere.

    Rather, between me and someone who has a ton of Se going on, the way he makes his way through space pretty much requires me to hold on for the ride. He carves his way through crowds much more easily than I do. I can't keep up with him unless he takes me by the hand, there's just no way.

    As for the woman with cancer, my mom's husband was very unhelpful to her when she had cancer, and that is exactly the sort of thing that would appall the guy I'm currently with, and yeah, he would step in to help, just as Hayley described. I didn't get that she was talking about hand holding. She was talking about a sense of protecting and helping in a physical way, I thought.
    Interesting. I can cut my way through a crowd easily, and often did. I find that I don't now, because I like to keep it slow and absorb the world around me.

    I'm also appaulled by your mums husbands behavior. There's a difference between talking a good game and providing direct action to help a person. I prefer to do the latter, and I've noticed people are either too lazy, selfish or something else not to provide actual help.
    Last edited by Words; 12-11-2010 at 10:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Eh. I really don't see this as a dependency issue. If I have such an issue, it's manifest elsewhere.

    Rather, between me and someone who has a ton of Se going on, the way he makes his way through space pretty much requires me to hold on for the ride. He carves his way through crowds much more easily than I do. I can't keep up with him unless he takes me by the hand, there's just no way.
    Ok now this sounds different. The vibe I got from OP was a pathetic "I can't do this, help me :frown:" attitude. But I can semi-relate to accepting volotional forces pulling me in a direction. Usually I'm trying to assess the trends and calculate the direction I need to move, everything is mental. It's relieving to have someone already know the direction needed to go and not have to do anything but enjoy the ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
    Twitch is free to use me as her IEI specimen to study a little if she likes and taking note of her ways helps me to understand SEI .







    Hi WorkaholicsAnon sorry if I did not explain myself that well but Golden's understanding above is very much on track.
    Yeah ok, that was my understanding as well, but I thought our topic was about whether hand-holding is type-related.
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    Not type related.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by he died with a felafel View Post
    oh, i didn't actually comment on this....maybe someone else did? maybe they had a similar name? were they called pita-bread or sth? lol
    felafel... did u delete your post???? I went back and looked and it wasn't there anymore. Unless I totally hallucinated initially... which could be since I haven't been getting enough sleep this week.
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    I've given this some more thought and wanted to describe how things go between me and the current uber-Se boyfriend. In particular, I'd like to show that it's not a simple matter of strong, controlling man and weak, helpless woman.

    First, in this case, the leading/following dynamic began with and continues with a joking element. Early in the relationship, the Se guy started doing a clownish gesture of grabbing my hand with a sort of grunt, then folding my arm into his emphatically, and we would laugh. Having this be presented a joke made me much more accepting of his wish to sometimes lead the way.

    Second, sometimes I get really tired of having my hand held or being led or semi-led, and I simply withdraw my hand from his. He certainly has no problem with that and takes it as a cue, although it can mean more than one thing. Maybe I want to slow down, or stop and look at something, or possibly I'm indicating my own take on the physical circumstances, such as that I don't think there's room for us to walk two abreast ahead. Other times I just think I can move better on my own. He always seems able to read the meaning of my choice to walk without his contact.

    Another point is that the contact gives me the opportunity to exert control back at him. I can subtly slow him down sometimes, for example, by hanging back.

    Last, where he is doing his charge-ahead, survey, cut-through stuff, I am often quietly correcting him when he has gone overboard imo. If he seems not to notice another person and is getting too close to them, for example, I will put my hand between him and that person, or just point out what he overlooked.

    These are boring details, even to me. My point, if I have one, is that whatever outward form of leading/following might appear between two people, there's bound to be some give-and-take. We're not talking about something tantamount to an adult leading a small child or an infirm person. It's more a matter of how people with different styles and strengths coordinate themselves physically to navigate. And I do think it's type-related.

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    Lol sounds like you were describing a horse.

    Though I guess that's just the instinctual part of sensing coming through. And bias.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Lol sounds like you were describing a horse.

    Though I guess that's just the instinctual part of sensing coming through. And bias.
    Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Last, where he is doing his charge-ahead, survey, cut-through stuff, I am often quietly correcting him when he has gone overboard imo. If he seems not to notice another person and is getting too close to them, for example, I will put my hand between him and that person, or just point out what he overlooked.
    That sounds really lame. If people don't get out of the way then if they get knocked into it's their own problem. And when you start being ok with people being in the way it is like you're losing a part of yourself. And when you lose yourself what's the point of moving at all? And if no-one moves then no-one is. And if nothing is, then people have no significance. And if people have no significance, then fuck 'em.

    These are boring details, even to me. My point, if I have one, is that whatever outward form of leading/following might appear between two people, there's bound to be some give-and-take. We're not talking about something tantamount to an adult leading a small child or an infirm person. It's more a matter of how people with different styles and strengths coordinate themselves physically to navigate. And I do think it's type-related.
    I've noticed in myself that I feel better walking with some people than walking with others. I've also nearly-randomly started holding peoples hands that I don't know that well. To me what works is best is when people can keep up a decent pace and not act like every step is painful and hard to place. Not act disorientated or lost. Act aware, and in control, and in charge. Thing is, some people can do a clinging type thing when moving and it's like they don't stay in touch with their own movements. And I think sometimes people do have to be propped up for whatever reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    That sounds really lame. If people don't get out of the way then if they get knocked into it's their own problem. And when you start being ok with people being in the way it is like you're losing a part of yourself. And when you lose yourself what's the point of moving at all? And if no-one moves then no-one is. And if nothing is, then people have no significance. And if people have no significance, then fuck 'em.
    What part of it is lame exactly? I mean, in a crowded city, or in any place where people congregate and there's a terrain or whatever to navigate, there will be obstacles and people will have different trajectories and whatnot.

    Just free-associating, part of what I actually like is losing myself. I enjoy the way that various places and crowds allow me to kind of exit the immediate sensory environment and set me to dreaming and flowing. My bf is sort of the opposite--he enjoys the stimulation and challenge of the place itself, and that's really cool and balances out my little inner world. Sometimes I get too absorbed in that meditative thing I do, and he pulls me into the immediate. And sometimes he's so into the forward push that it's like, I see that other people also have their paths and there should be some limit on how much we fuck up their day.

    I've noticed in myself that I feel better walking with some people than walking with others. I've also nearly-randomly started holding peoples hands that I don't know that well. To me what works is best is when people can keep up a decent pace and not act like every step is painful and hard to place. Not act disorientated or lost. Act aware, and in control, and in charge. Thing is, some people can do a clinging type thing when moving and it's like they don't stay in touch with their own movements. And I think sometimes people do have to be propped up for whatever reason.
    This sounds a lot like the guy I'm with. He's rapid and physically in charge, and even if he does get lost, he doesn't act like it--it's just a problem-solving opportunity. Even though I am sorta dreamy, I kind of do the same thing, but in a quieter way. I actually like to walk really fast, too, and I get put out with slow, ambling walkers who seem to lack direction or who move poorly. He just sorta occupies more territory than I do, makes bolder movements.

    He has whole stories about walking with ex-girlfriends and being extremely annoyed with their slowness. I'm the first woman he's been with who doesn't drive him up the wall by being slow, directionless, and whiny in walking/hiking situations.

    So I'm not sure where the take-her-by-the-hand dynamic really comes from. I can keep up with him regardless, I'm super glad he walks quickly and boldly, and I don't HAVE to have my hand held. But since we're making rapid progress and the path is often indirect or requires other people to make space, there's more chaos when we don't form a unit, and I'm just a tad slower because I'm a little more polite and have a smaller presence so people don't let me by so readily. And I guess that unless I'm with someone very young or very old, I don't make decisions for two all that often in these situations, whereas to him it comes more naturally to lead. ??????

    Essentially, we enjoy walking together and complement e/other well.

  38. #38
    lump's Avatar
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    heh @ analyzing walking habits. it reminds me of not long ago walking with a friend and being thwarted and confused cos she would hang behind and expect me to "lead." and it was only then that i realized that i always hang back and expect the other person to "lead" without thinking about it. after i realized what was happening i was able to take the leading position. once with the same friend i was all caught up in conversation and ended up leading us way off in the wrong direction. but she was the one to finally point it out (and laughed at me for going the wrong way even though she was walking with me). i dont mind walking with her, but its a different kind of dynamic than what i'm used to. i think she's IEE, dont know if it matters.

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