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Thread: Socionics Interpretation of Russian National Character by Kramarenko and Davidson

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    Default Socionics Interpretation of Russian National Character by Kramarenko and Davidson

    I stumbled upon that article and a quick search here gave no result...so it might be of interest.

    http://www.nstu.ru/korus/sections/fi...0character.pdf
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


    -----
    Know your body, know your mind, know your limits.

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    Russia does seem pretty beta from what little I know of its history lol

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    Immediately when I think of Russia the first thing that comes to mind is that no one has been able to successfully occupy Russia due to attrition, shortage of supply lines, and the winter. The mongols spread through Asia but didn't go beyond Russia into Europe. The Romans never went beyond Russia to the NE. The Germans in WWII weren't able to conquer Russia. It seems Beta on that basis, the entire idea of out surviving your enemy in a harsh landscape.

    Also the idea of Russian Tzars, Rasputin, Lenin's Revolution and Murder of the Royal Family comes to mind. As well as the Gulag, the Russian Mafia, the Russian Thieves Guild. Also the idea of Russian Officers shooting anyone that ran backwards in Stalingrad.

    Russians generally seem to be kind of Brutal, Harsh, Tough, Survivor-like. Culturally they have a combination of Eastern and European Influence, almost Byztanine in feel, like the regions in the balkans and the mountains in uzbekistan and the like where the Byztanine Empire held influence as well as the oxthodox chrisitian faith, the architecture of the Kremlin and the like also reminds me of the Byztanine Empire. Also I associate a more slavic-gothic Eastern European culture to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Immediately when I think of Russia the first thing that comes to mind is that no one has been able to successfully occupy Russia due to attrition, shortage of supply lines, and the winter. The mongols spread through Asia but didn't go beyond Russia into Europe. The Romans never went beyond Russia to the NE. The Germans in WWII weren't able to conquer Russia. It seems Beta on that basis, the entire idea of out surviving your enemy in a harsh landscape.
    Any Russian today will tell you that the Mongols successfully controlled as vassals most of the core principalities of Russia (like Ryazan, Vladimir, Moscow) for some 300 years. The Mongols even occupied parts of the Ukraine and invaded as far west as Poland and Hungary. FTR, Most Mongol subjects either eventually rebelled against them or culturally absorbed them.

    The Romans were too weak and over-extended to conquer past the Rhine, let alone have their eyes on Russia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...utoburg_Forest


    Rome just past its greatest extent:
    http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/200/index.html


    Off topic, I believe that out-surviving your enemy because you're bred in a harsh landscape is altogether , due to the fact that it internalizes the struggle and focuses it internally onto having a hardier and more resilient constitution, rather than externally onto attacking the enemy. The idea of defeating your enemy by breaking the enemy's will (whether through the application of force in pitched-battle or by out-surviving them) is what I'd associate with .
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Any Russian today will tell you that the Mongols successfully controlled as vassals most of the core principalities of Russia (like Ryazan, Vladimir, Moscow) for some 300 years. The Mongols even occupied parts of the Ukraine and invaded as far west as Poland and Hungary. FTR, Most Mongol subjects either eventually rebelled against them or culturally absorbed them.

    The Romans were too weak and over-extended to conquer past the Rhine, let alone have their eyes on Russia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...utoburg_Forest


    Rome just past its greatest extent:
    http://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/200/index.html


    Off topic, I believe that out-surviving your enemy because you're bred in a harsh landscape is altogether , due to the fact that it internalizes the struggle and focuses it internally onto having a hardier and more resilient constitution, rather than externally onto attacking the enemy. The idea of defeating your enemy by breaking the enemy's will (whether through the application of force in pitched-battle or by out-surviving them) is what I'd associate with .
    On Mongols: Well I'm not an expert in mongolian history, the main point however stands.... Russia has withstood occupation in many historical instances because of the winter and attrition. That's nice and all, but its not really a game changer. I didn't really have the time and patience to look up specific "laser-precision" details on this topic to make a basic well known point about Russian military history.

    On Se/Si: Well then I guess Russia would have to be typed Si then over Se.... however I've never really seen Si as being about strength and security and out-survival. I see Si as comfort/security sensation seeking, and Se as excitement/stimulation sensation seeking. Both types are sensory seeking, but the types of sensations they seek are different in nature. So I'd be much more swayed by an argument that convinced me the russian ethos as a whole tends to reinforce the value of seeking comfort and security for oneself than it is about excitement and stimulation sensation seeking.
    Last edited by male; 12-12-2010 at 03:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    On Mongols: Well I'm not an expert in mongolian history, the main point however stands.... Russia has withstood occupation in many historical instances because of the winter and attrition. That's nice and all, but its not really a game changer. I didn't really have the time and patience to look up specific "laser-precision" details on this topic to make a basic well known point about Russian military history.

    On Se/Si: Well then I guess Russia would have to be typed Si then over Se.... however I've never really seen Si as being about strength and security and out-survival. I see Si as comfort/security sensation seeking, and Se as excitement/stimulation sensation seeking. Both types are sensory seeking, but the types of sensations they seek are different in nature. So I'd be much more swayed by an argument that convinced me the russian ethos as a whole tends to reinforce the value of seeking comfort and security for oneself than it is about excitement and stimulation sensation seeking.
    Si as comfort/security sensation seeking, and Se as excitement/stimulation sensation seeking.
    Si as comfort, perhaps. But IMO all sensing is about generating stimulation; sexuality, drugs and alcohol are as much Si themes as they are Se themes. Se might be more unhinged and willing to go to extremes whereas Si pays more attention to its internal constitution, which is why Si is often associated with healthy living in many cases. It's like they try to consume those things more intelligently -- the word homeostasis is applicable here, and homeostasis explicitly suggests that Si types consume those things but try to regulate them in order to stay comfortable. An additional Si theme I've encountered includes attempts at strengthening one's internal constitution, e.g. by exposing oneself to and trying to overcome painful stimuli (like physical excercise, burning your fingers on a stove top, taking scalding hot showers).

    From what I've seen, the need for absolute comfort and security, especially to do with anything abstract (which, yes, can even include the perception of one's own body), is more of an Ni obsession. Many Beta NFs I've met are pathetically squeemish and deathly afraid of physical labor, for instance. I've also met an opposing number of athletic ones with different priorities vis a vis comfort and security.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    The high amount of brilliant Russian scientists makes me think we have some Ne+Ti around here. Anyway, it seems Finnish (NeTi) tribes conquered Russia, so there are several ethnicities in today's Russia.

    Some examples: look at the president Medvedev (ILE IMO), probably Finnish ethnicity...



    ...and the industrial tycoon Abramovich (SLE IMO), probably Slavic ethnicity




    Anyway, it is clear that Russia's polr is Fi
    ILE "Searcher"
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    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
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    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    lol @ this thread.

    Russia isn't Ne/Si. Cold weather and brilliant scientists arguments, indeed. This forum is so going downhill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    lol @ this thread.

    Russia isn't Ne/Si. Cold weather and brilliant scientists arguments, indeed. This forum is so going downhill.
    Who's claiming that it's Ne/Si?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Who's claiming that it's Ne/Si?
    Aiss is - she has something to hide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Who's claiming that it's Ne/Si?
    1981slater
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    I came accross something the other day comparing mbti with socionics. It said that mbti focuses on the positive traits of people and that socionics looked more deeply into peoples weaknesses and in doing so came up with the intertype relationship theory. I think it's interesting that Russians are less likely than westerners to shy away from the negative and as a result of this they came up with a superior theory.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    BTW, Russian choir (alpha quadra IMO)



    American choir (beta quadra IMO)

    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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