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Thread: Te, Autism and Duality

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Default Te, Autism and Duality

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    ". Te on the other hand takes discrete nodes of data from external reality and extracts them in an evolving linear form into self-contained, sealed-off “objects”. There is no unification of all the nodes, because each node evolves to be slightly different than the previous one. This phenomenon seems to be why Te is misconstrued as simply stating “facts” or reciting “data”. Yes, Te will process and make sense of things in a seemingly linear fashion, going point by point, but it is not “facts” Te is stating (although it may seem like Te-people state the obvious to Ti-people). Instead it is an extraction/interpreting of external reality into discrete representations. "





    Could it be that Fi, whatever it represents, is able to inhibit autism?

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    Creepy-male

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    What has Te got to do with autism?

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Oops, I forgot to mention that it seems that the behavioral aspects of autism seem to correlate with the processes of the external logic function when it's in the Ego block. I thought that maybe whatever Te represents is responsible for autism and maybe Fi could compliment Te and suppress autism.

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    Creepy-male

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    Perhaps, but autism is outside the bounds of what socionics deals with, since Socionics is strictly a theory about fully-functioning healthy adult minds. There's little point in subjecting atypical minds such as those of autistic people to Socionics study.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    True. Then I guess this thread is an effort to make Socionics more scientific.

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    Creepy-Korpsey

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    In that case burn it down and start over. More MRIs and test subjects, fewer mandalas and mythology books.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Well yeah, but you gotta start somewhere.

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    I know a light autistic guy, he's IEI.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    Fail

    I did not mention anything about types.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    There's little point in subjecting atypical minds such as those of autistic people to Socionics study.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Could it be that Fi, whatever it represents, is able to inhibit autism?
    If Fi represented Oxytocin:

    Oxytocin may play a role in autism and may be an effective treatment for autism's repetitive and affiliative behaviors.[20] Oxytocin treatments also resulted in an increased retention of affective speech in adults with autism.[21] Two related studies in adults, in 2003 and 2007, found that oxytocin decreased repetitive behaviors and improved interpretation of emotions. More recently, intranasal administration of oxytocin was found to increase emotion recognition in children as young as 12 who are diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders [22] Oxytocin has also been implicated in the etiology of autism with one report suggesting that autism is correlated with genomic deletion of the gene containing the oxytocin receptor gene (OXTR). Studies involving Caucasian and Finnish samples and Chinese Han families provide support for the relationship of OXTR with autism.[21][23] Autism may also be associated by an aberrant methylation of OXTR, as reported by Gregory and colleagues.[21] After treatment with inhaled oxytocin, autistic patients exhibit more appropriate social behavior.[24] While this research suggests some promise, further clinical trials of oxytocin are required to demonstrate potential benefit and side effects in the treatment of autism. As such, researchers do not recommend use of oxytocin as a treatment for autism outside of clinical trials

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    No Longer a Tadpole... Flat Footed Frog's Avatar
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    I also believe that some mental disorders do seem to correlate with some functions or lack of a specific function. I know this hasnt been proven etc, but that is only because little research has been done. But autism could be linked to Te, you never know. What gave you this idea to begin with eyeseecold?

    My brother i believe has autism to a very very mild extent. not diagnosed, but has shown signs throughout life. And he has always shown a lack of Fi. So the two could be linked possibly.
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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Great post; I feel so bad for all those kids who are diagnosed as "autistic"; by the way, my nephew (ISTp type) is exactly like this kido who is also ISTp

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    If Fi represented Oxytocin:
    Interesting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Footed Frog View Post
    I also believe that some mental disorders do seem to correlate with some functions or lack of a specific function. I know this hasnt been proven etc, but that is only because little research has been done. But autism could be linked to Te, you never know. What gave you this idea to begin with eyeseecold?
    I thought it was obvious, hence my focus on acting on the knowledge. But basically, going off stereotypes, the types most likely to be autistic have Te in the Ego block(not sure about LSE) and if not diagnosed, exhibiting insignificant-mild tendencies. The resulting conclusion is that every human is a result of disorders, and ideally would need its complementary dual in the form of chemicals, or another human being.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    This is extremely beautiful (what you said about needing chemicals in the form of a person - dual - to balance you out) I have always wanted Socionics to explain psychopathology... and I think it makes perfect sense when you think about it... I mean of course this is a theory for healthy personalities but any theory of personality should be able to develop a theory of psychopathology as well. IMO, mental illnesses are just an extension, excessiveness, defecit, or inappropriateness of certain functions. Autism is obviously a lack of both and so that research re: Oxytocin is just simply amazing to me. There should be other correlations as well... especially with personality d/o and which types are most susceptible to certain ones. The only thing that really comes to mind right now is over-emphasis on and for histrionic personality d/o...


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    Okay. Here's my deal-o. I said this a hundred times, but I will say it 101 more times.

    Autism is just another label out of trillions that people give to social behavior that isn't acceptable to the current structure. People don't form to any sort of mold, they just are themselves- and that alone is enough to drive us all insane. And to deal with the behavior we have to label it scientifically. We feel bad for emotionally judging others who are too different, well a lot of us- so a scientific label is good to deal with things that 'make me feel uncomfortable.' Scientific labels are all so distant and cool and makes us sound like the good guys. Doesn't it?

    What sorts of people become "autistic?" Sheltered people of celebrities, middle-class mucks who simply lack the normal exposure of daily social interactions- all of those people are autistic. The only thing they need is the help of a caring social worker more than anything. Clinical psychotherapy is waaaaay too umm straight man business like for those people. They need somebody very emotionally patient with a big heart. People don't want to seem insensitive but they obviously can't be bothered by the pain of all the socially maladjusted people in the world. So they sort of umm ignore them, set them aside in secret hopes that the behavior would correct itself. The judgment that they give is just a projection of their own guilt, a way for them to try and make their own selves feel better, so the pariahs will behave in ways that are more acceptable to the masses.

    The problem with that is that you do your own self a great disservice when you try to fix the crazy the autistic and yes, the GAY. Because it wasn't too long ago when most people thought being homosexual was a mental illness. I'm so sorry but being autistic is just the same thing. (like Esther hicks said they're coming out autistic they're coming out gay -- all to teach us a spiritual lesson) It's a social deviation from the norm, and that is understandably terrifying for people. Instead of realizing the problem is with their own selves, they create a scapegoat. Being autistic is simply a different way of being that people aren't comfortable or familiar with, so they have to attack and judge it. You only really have empathy and support for these type of people if you yourself have been on the outside looking in. You know?

    Btw being deaf is the same way. Honestly deaf-ness has a very homoerotic energy and queer energy that I like and a lot of communities like to stay deaf for that reason and many others. They don't view it as a disability or something that needs fixing. I've been thinking what if all these things are the same way? People were born with this not as a genetic defect to 'cure', but a lesson to teach the rest of us.

    I feel happier knowing that. I feel the same way when I look at a 'retarded person.' I know society loves to make fun of them but they are so free the way they express themselves and their hearts. It's raw, childlike and innocent. Autism is like the reversal of that which seems just as lame. Autistic people are kind of holding things back because of fear of being judged by their neurotic celebrity moms and middle class mommies with perfectionistic issues. If they told you how they were really feeling, you'd eat them alive and they know that so they go inward waaay too much. A retarded person can't really help doing that....because their iq isn't high enough to realize what they're doing. That's why it's so adorable. And also a lot of times, so annoying. We have to make fun of it just to deal with it I guess.

    I know I'm right. No straight man science can convince me of things I know to be true. And I know I'm a one note chord with my gay/straight rants but I don't care. My perspective is just as valid as any other. And you do have to be annoyed into realizing certain things about the universe and our planet. Because honestly most humans are going about it the wrong way, that's why we're all so miserably unhappy. We're going backwards, and only a retarded autistic homosexual man can turn us downstream again. You westerners don't operate in a live and let live philosophy... Okay maybe I'm taking it too personally now and too sensitively but come on. My entire point is pristine and true. Let people be autistic, deaf and gay and retarded. Because you get to stay non-autistic, hearing enabled, straight and not a retard.

    Get it?

    ((I actually had to give this lesson myself the other day when I got annoyed that ppl wanted to search for jobs and go to work every day instead of talking about rpg classes with me 24/7, it's easy for me to teach it. It's a little harder to take my own advice, but it really applies to everybody no matter what they're doing))

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    Haikus
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    Before Vero coolly corrects me or some other person, I don't know- I just want to say that:

    I don't view social misfits as like potential magical heroes that are better than they really are, no matter how emotionally empowering that is. The solution to that isn't realistic or simple enough and besides it isn't even true. Jewish shows just say that so you will spend money on their DVDs to make them ownselves richer.

    Gay people and autistic people and retarded people and deaf people are actually much, much HARDER to like than everybody else. Because they are different. They are not these hidden magical saints that will be perfect world heroes if only you love them. Blah. It doesn't work that way.

    So I realize the practicality of it. And I understand your perspective. But when you think of things a bit more in the 'big picture way' you will see what's the point of trying to fix them or help them or label them or even worry about them? What's the point of even distinctively judging them as 'autistic?' Even if you cured their autism a new thing would pop up that was different and not-straight and a new thing and a new thing and a new thing. It just keeps happening!!! The weirdness of non-system stuff just springs forth no matter how many gay dragon elves you kill in the forest. =/

    The only way to deal with it is to meditatively live and let live. The spiritual truth of everything. =) It's to turn away from the outside world of institutions and jobs and safe secure things and to the moral spiritual realm of shamanism. In there is the heart of all wise answers, in there is the hub of all the truth that you seek. Because God is going to keep giving us all challenges that knock our perspectives completely out of the water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Instead of talking about who is autistic and who is not we could all find the things that we ourselves enjoy.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    ^

    I appreciate where you are coming from. To recap what you said, illness and disorders are just deviations from "the norm", whatever that is. However, in my previous post, I have said that everyone has these innate qualities that comprise a "disorder", in some people it is just more prominent. I'm not saying " Let's fix the gays!", I'm saying that everyone has some kind of imbalance, whether they know it or not, and that a psychological/physical/chemical dual could help people function better.

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