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Thread: WorkaholicsAnon thread split from ""Are They In Your Quadra" Experiment"

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    laghlagh u dont think i'm in your quadra?? ((((

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I'm not on your list. Just fyi. Not sure how expansive you wanted to make it.
    i might have accidentally deleted you, in which case: "?" :wink: haven't seen many of your posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    laghlagh u dont think i'm in your quadra?? ((((
    N/Q or Q/N probably would have been more appropriate, i think we kind of have to take these with a grain of salt considering there's this huge list and you have to sum up your entire general impression with a combination of 3 symbols heh.

    the only reason i didn't do Q is because sometimes i feel like i'm disappointing you by not reciprocating your enthusiasm like i feel with alpha SFs. but i'm not sure if it actually is that way or if i'm just being insecure or something, who knows.

    doesn't mean you're not awesome. i do like you.

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    Laghlagh!!! I don't remember ever feeling disappointed by your level of enthusiasm! I really don't understand how I come across so enthusiastic to people on here. Maybe it's my overuse of exclamation points. Maybe it's my ESE tcaud dual-type that might be superficially apparent (for those who subscribe to the theory--not sure if do).

    I don't know. Anyway, I've felt that you are plenty enthusiastic too Laghlagh! I definitely feel like I relate to a lot of things you say, so much so that I've questioned my type as to whether I might be EII on more than one occasion, which is why I was so mystified as to why you felt more estranged from me, enough to consider neighboring quadra.

    I think we may be having a mirror moment here...

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    Default WorkaholicsAnon thread [split from ""Are They In Your Quadra" Experiment"]

    Marie and Ssmall, u guys think I'm alpha too?? Why? I wanna know...

    I sort of feel like I'm a not-in-my-quadra sort of person! The alphas don't want me (they all say I'm neighboring), the gammas don't want me (Neighboring), betas have said opposing for the most part, ananke said N/O! and three deltas say neighboring.

    I'm not hurt, I'm just really curious what it is that makes me come across that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Marie and Ssmall, u guys think I'm alpha too?? Why? I wanna know...

    I sort of feel like I'm a not-in-my-quadra sort of person! The alphas don't want me (they all say I'm neighboring), the gammas don't want me (Neighboring), betas have said opposing for the most part, ananke said N/O! and three deltas say neighboring.

    I'm not hurt, I'm just really curious what it is that makes me come across that way.
    Now now, this is not based on some well thought out reasoned typing, that wouldnt be possible for such amount of people. Its just hunches, impressions, natural reactions. I wont have a problem with you in Delta quadra either if you feel at home there. Im pretty sure there are people who think Im not Delta either, maybe im Alpha and your Delta, I dont know. Not to mention nobody is giving types here, only quadras, which is vague and would be influenced with subtype differences.

    As for why I really cant tell the exact reasons, more or less though you are very dynamic, enthusiastic and engaging (from my point of view) in the way you write, the only other ENFp you remind me is Jewels. But you give me the same natural reactions in the way you write that I had to Gul, just not that extreeme of course. You seem to misinterpret what I write quite often (well in comparison to how much there were chances), which is weird , not that you are completely off the mark on what I write but you seem to understand things differently than I intend to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Marie and Ssmall, u guys think I'm alpha too?? Why? I wanna know...

    I sort of feel like I'm a not-in-my-quadra sort of person! The alphas don't want me (they all say I'm neighboring), the gammas don't want me (Neighboring), betas have said opposing for the most part, ananke said N/O! and three deltas say neighboring.

    I'm not hurt, I'm just really curious what it is that makes me come across that way.
    You're Fi-creative, but as long as you give me no Se, you're not-in-my-quadra. Sorry.


    [List in progress.]

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    You're a Quadra-less drifter, WA.

    Post copied from: "Are They In Your Quadra" Experiment - Subterranean

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Marie and Ssmall, u guys think I'm alpha too?? Why? I wanna know...
    Hi Workaholics!!
    Was thinking about this thread this morning and I said to Goldilocks, I think you are in my quadra, but not only that, the same type as me. I have finally figured out after many many years im actually ISFp/SEI.. that was very hard to see for me as I believed I was an NF, but now it all seems to fit. So maybe you could look at that type with fresh eyes??

    I think we are the same because of how we interact, write and debate on this forum... (remember tag teaming Maritsa??... Suzzy/Goldilocks got the blame for it I think) lol.

    We seem to have the same effect on how people react emotionally towards us.

    So i bags you for my quadra!!

    PS add twitch to your list everyone.. I know I dont post much but anyways

    Anyways im off for a coffee...

    Post copied from: "Are They In Your Quadra" Experiment - Subterranean

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    Ok not to turn this into a WA typing thread-- what some of u guys have said about me possibly being alpha SF is interesting. Typing shouldn't be done just on a gut feeling like this, and I know u guys have admitted that. I think these opinions and gut feelings are more the product of not knowing me well enough as most others here (esp the ones who I've talked with more at length) do seem to have a consensus in putting me in delta. I find this really interesting, because there may be something to the tcaud's dual type theory after all, as he dual-typed me ESE. In other words per my understanding, I superficially might come across as an ESE, but my thought processing is IEE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Ok not to turn this into a WA typing thread-- what some of u guys have said about me possibly being alpha SF is interesting. Typing shouldn't be done just on a gut feeling like this, and I know u guys have admitted that. I think these opinions and gut feelings are more the product of not knowing me well enough as most others here (esp the ones who I've talked with more at length) do seem to have a consensus in putting me in delta. I find this really interesting, because there may be something to the tcaud's dual type theory after all, as he dual-typed me ESE. In other words per my understanding, I superficially might come across as an ESE, but my thought processing is IEE.
    whatever type you are i find you extremely annoying. im probably beta, so make of that what you want

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    LadyInRed what is it about me that annoys you? I'm asking out of curiosity...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    LadyInRed what is it about me that annoys you? I'm asking out of curiosity...
    im glad you arent insulted, heh

    to be honest you seem some what needy to me, there seems to be a great need for attention, affrmation, something that i don't like and get impatient with

    to be fair i seem to have a similar reaction to other IEEs too, and they most probably see me as cold and well a bitch

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    Hm. I don't find WA one tiny bit annoying. Clearly, WA and I are in the same quadra, then!

    Really, there are very few forum members who annoy me, and if I do get annoyed, it's a temporary thing based on a specific statement or behavior, and not a catch-all "This person annoys me" judgment. And now, just to be annoying, I'll say I find such a dismissive, generalizing approach to other people very immature.

    *Walks away feeling all Delta-ish.*

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    im glad you arent insulted, heh

    to be honest you seem some what needy to me, there seems to be a great need for attention, affrmation, something that i don't like and get impatient with

    to be fair i seem to have a similar reaction to other IEEs too, and they most probably see me as cold and well a bitch
    well I was about to be, but then i thought maybe i can get some socionic insights on what the opposing quadra doesn't like about me. I do think you have a point about me needing affirmation at times. I dont consciously need attention though. I actually dont like too much attention. The apparent attention-seeking i think is rooted in the need for affirmation, especially here when I am not always sure if my concepts/understanding are correct.

    Thanks though, that gives me some more insight into the beta mind.



    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Hm. I don't find WA one tiny bit annoying. Clearly, WA and I are in the same quadra, then!

    Really, there are very few forum members who annoy me, and if I do get annoyed, it's a temporary thing based on a specific statement or behavior, and not a catch-all "This person annoys me" judgment. And now, just to be annoying, I'll say I find such a dismissive, generalizing approach to other people very immature.

    *Walks away feeling all Delta-ish.*
    awww Thanks Golden!! Hey there is nothing wrong with feeling Delta-ish!! We're the nice quadra... j/k obviously every quadra has its nice people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    As for why I really cant tell the exact reasons, more or less though you are very dynamic, enthusiastic and engaging (from my point of view) in the way you write, the only other ENFp you remind me is Jewels. But you give me the same natural reactions in the way you write that I had to Gul, just not that extreeme of course. You seem to misinterpret what I write quite often (well in comparison to how much there were chances), which is weird , not that you are completely off the mark on what I write but you seem to understand things differently than I intend to.
    That's pretty much in line with my own impressions, fwiw.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I find this really interesting, because there may be something to the tcaud's dual type theory after all, as he dual-typed me ESE. In other words per my understanding, I superficially might come across as an ESE, but my thought processing is IEE.
    Tcaud's theory is complete bull. As well as the conclusions you're drawing out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    im glad you arent insulted, heh

    to be honest you seem some what needy to me, there seems to be a great need for attention, affrmation, something that i don't like and get impatient with

    to be fair i seem to have a similar reaction to other IEEs too, and they most probably see me as cold and well a bitch
    I haven't interacted much with you, ladyinred, but I think I like you.

    Maybe it's just the sexy avatar though, who knows... :wink:


    As for WA, I agree with Ssmall. Only thing I'll add is that I think she talks about things of no purpose too much sometimes; tryin' to beat 'em dead horses just a bit too much. But she's usually cool.
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    I'm unable to make quotes on my blackberry, but I have to say:

    Parkster, et tu Brutus???

    The reason I'm mystified by what you and ssmall and laghlagh are saying is that I've always felt that I relate a lot to what u guys say in your posts. If I've ever misunderstood something, it's only because I may have just skimmed over the post or been in a hurry or something. The only reason I seem to be taking things personally is because I felt close to all of you and I didn't realize you guys didn't feel the same way it came as a bit of a surprise to me actually.

    And there's no way I'm alpha, as I like gammas too much (and I can't STAND alpha humor in medium doses--sorry guys). If I'm not delta, then I would say I'm a gamma sooner than an alpha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I'm unable to make quotes on my blackberry, but I have to say:

    Parkster, et tu Brutus???

    The reason I'm mystified by what you and ssmall and laghlagh are saying is that I've always felt that I relate a lot to what u guys say in your posts. If I've ever misunderstood something, it's only because I may have just skimmed over the post or been in a hurry or something. The only reason I seem to be taking things personally is because I felt close to all of you and I didn't realize you guys didn't feel the same way it came as a bit of a surprise to me actually.

    And there's no way I'm alpha, as I like gammas too much (and I can't STAND alpha humor in medium doses--sorry guys). If I'm not delta, then I would say I'm a gamma sooner than an alpha.
    fwiw, you strike me as very Delta.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

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    @Marie,

    Often when I post typings, they are a gut feeling typing that I've posted to see whether people agree with me or not. As far as I can tell, most Ne egos here do this as well. I have my reliable sources and I check my typings with them (as well as do my learning of socionic theory from them--socionics isn't exactly a field with a lot of "reliable sources" I can quote like a gold standard ). And I also judge how reliable a source people who respond to my typings are before I take their comments seriously. If there is a big disagreement with my typing, I go back to my trusted sources and discuss the typing with them.

    as far as me having called myself a shy person, you're right I have considered EII as a typing for myself because of that (I still don't see how that quality alone makes me un-Delta), however as I've studied myself more in-depth I have come to realize I am a lot more social and outgoing than I had given myself credit for in the past. As was said on one of the Russian documentaries on socionics I watched on Youtube a while back (you're free to find it if you want) an introvert might have 5 friends and say "I have a LOT of friends" while an extravert might have 15 friends and say "I have so few friends " because that is not enough friends for the extravert. IME, IEE do tend to be a little shyer often than other extraverts in the socion (Evan Lysacek, Drew Barrymore, Dakota Fanning, Vanessa Carlton).

    Frankly, Marie, I'm a little surprised that someone supposedly with Ne in ego like yourself would take something I said about myself so literally and fail to see one's actual potential. (You actually strike me as ESI by this.) I mean, look at how much I post, for one thing. Also for someone who has been around socionics for a lot longer than me, I'm surprised that you judge extraversion by someone saying they're sociable or not. You should know by know that extraversion in socionics is not equated with "sociability"--this is an MBTI feature. Ne is about recognizing potential in things, people, situations and taking initiative on such recognition. It can result in being sociable sure, but if Ne determines there is no potential, or if Fi determines the person's essence is less than worthy or bad in some way, the NeFi extravert is going to act unsociable or "shy". I'm sorry I can't dig up a source for you right now as I'm on my blackberry, but you are free to perform a search youself. I am going by sources I've read though, not by just logical deduction

    You, Marie are ESI, my friend. (yes my Ne came up with that, I provided my evidence to you above, no sources to cite) . I guess that might explain the quadra difference you sense. I also have sort of felt you aren't in my quadra too.


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    WA:

    out of everyone on the forum, marie is the one whose thought process i find the easiest (or one of the easiest) to follow and understand and who i tend to relate to the most. so going by the "vibe and impression" method of typing (which is what is happening in this thread from what i understand) we would have to be the same type, whatever type she happens to be. i don't know if marie thinks similarly about me, though. if she doesn't, is she wrong? should she be convinced that we are, in fact, a lot more similar than she thinks we are? what would it mean for our respective types?

    reading your posts in this thread has been kind of painful because i can see that you're taking whats been in the lists as some kind of rejection, but the thing is...i don't see anyone here actually rejecting you. and i think that's very important for you to see. as for myself, i told you that i like you and i've told you previously in chat that i find you very easy to talk to. i never said i felt "estranged" from you. i don't care what type you are. you're right in saying that i don't know you very well. i don't think i know you well enough to objectively type you. so, really, any opinion i might have about your type isn't something that should be taken very seriously at this point. that said, i haven't ruled out IEE.

    hope you're enjoying your travels and looking forward to your list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    You, Marie are ESI, my friend.
    I disagree with your assessment. Unlike other ESI in my life and here, I have a much easier time understanding her. Marie's posts lack that edge of Se-creative or Se-ego. Her style of writing is quite similar and in line with EII in general. I say this is as someone with an EII sister and two close EII friends. Her own forum relations with non-contested Alphas and Betas supports this well.

    WA: Overall, your post strikes me as quite odd. It comes across as, "You questioned my type, so I'm now going to question yours."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Possibly, it really is just an impression, but I see seeking as relying heavily on needing information from external sources and concrete examples from said "reliable" outlets, whereas I see as soaking up bits and pieces of information from everything but only excepting the parts that "fit" with what they believe to me most consistent. And that's why I'd find it odd for a Ti PoLR to make conclusions without substantial amounts of external information to back them up.
    fwiw, I can see serious biases with both approaches; (i.e. "you're sources might not be right" says Ti valuer, or "you're only calling things facts because they suit your preferred understanding" says Te valuer), and I'm not trying to assert that either is the "best" way of getting information
    Suggestive and hidden agenda are not the same, however. I realize you probably meant "super-id" by it, but dual seeking refers rather to the former, in my experience. It might be just my imagination, but the more I get into socionics, the more distinct the functions within a block seem; while I still think mirrors are similar enough to make them common mistypings, I suppose if Mattie was posting here now, she'd have every right to go all "told you so" on me.

    I recall the thread which put Te/Fi and Fe/Ti in this light, but I don't quite agree with the reasoning given there, even if it was Expat's and therefore a relatively reliable source, as this "Fi assessing which sources to trust" neither matches with my experience nor socionics theory as I understand it. The way I see it, extroverted thinking is logic directed at questioning and contrasting facts to extract their reliability. For me, Te induces (implies) Fi, determines my attitude to sources which tend to provide good information, which is still independently examined. The source might matter when contrasting information, but it's by no means a final or entirely subjective factor. I won't believe something which otherwise seems totally artificial is 100% cotton just because the label says so - but my LII father will. If that makes my typings wrong, and I don't understand the elements, I hope I'll realize it soon, but now I see Ti as "logically putting the bits together", logic directed at constructing the system, rather than directed at specific matters; it's hard to get a Ti-ego (again, by my typings) to say something specific, they rather err on the side of generality, often making finding counterexamples rather easy. One thing people who claim that Ti "questions" and Te "accepts" miss is that both are logic, merely with the different attitude - effectively, application.

    On the other hand, Te-DS are often described - and indeed it's hard not to notice - as appreciating help with finding what information is reliable. Now if Fi was indeed the determinant of trust into sources, Fi-egos shouldn't experience this - in fact, they would find it easier than Te-egos. Unless, of course, this Fi-trust is only really applicable to people, as in, you choose to trust someone to offer reliable information to you, in which case I could probably see it working for Fi-egos, at least. More or less.

    Essentially, I agree with your comparison of an end-effect - Te-HA is more in need of knowledge and Ti-HA of models. But I see the former manifest mostly as enthusiasm about knowledge, something which other types rarely show to this extent. In contrast to Te-DS, who need to put it all together in their mind first, they often seem to be happy with the knowledge itself and flaunt it around, but - and this is the key, in my opinion - it doesn't necessarily become a part of their mindset immediately just because of it. I attribute it to Ti-PoLR, as I see Ti as dealing with explicit models. IEE will accept no ready-made reasoning - they're more likely than not to reject it, along with models and theories they aren't convinced of yet; the PoLR judgments tend to be strong and negative, as in other types. They will, however, soak in the information and insist on putting it together on their own. It's actually quite endearing to watch .

    Ti-HA, on the other hand, seems like forming and becoming attached to a model, rather than to specific information. They have stronger Ti than IEEs, but as they have poor filter (Te-PoLR), they'll often quickly settle on a norm based on something. They prefer to get an explanation, a model - something IEEs detest - which will allow them to sort facts (I use the word so as not to refer to all information as "Te") and judge them based on their fitting it, as you described. This might be biased towards IEI Ti-HA, as it seems most visible in them.

    Obviously I prefer Te-HA attitude, which to me seems like asking for facts while wanting to make up their own mind, as opposed to put-those-together-for-me Ti-HA, which seems like "tell me what to think" to me, though I realize it's outrageous and not at all the case from the other side's point of view; a case of accusing each other of the same fault, as some Ti/Fe valuers seem to similarly react to Fi. This subjective feeling is not something to base a typing on, but the kind of information that gets this reaction probably is.

    But my point is, Te-HA and Ti-HA are very different and I seriously think WA represents the former approach, though not in excess, some xEEs show more of it. She doesn't seem to rely upon explicit convictions or give them as ultimate arguments, the way Ti-HAs do, if they have them. In other words, your observations is she might word it strongly ("is", not "I think they are" or "could be"), but she isn't actually absolute about it, or at least I never got this impression. And using precise wording is very much dependent on other factors - people's patterns of speech are affected by whose company they keep, for one. While there may be more abstract semantic differences between types, exact vocabulary is too variable to associate with them. IME vocabulary section on wikisocion only works to confirm it.

    And as Ashton, I also think you may very well both be Delta NFs, while not quite compatible. I don't really relate to LIEs this much, not even to some of the self-typed ILIs here - but I fit in with them much more than Alpha NTs or other clubs, still.



    Sorry for the wall of text, it was meant to be a concise reply. (Yes, tut, process types. I know. )

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    @WorkaholicsAnon: Chill down.
    Last edited by Park; 11-29-2010 at 05:10 AM.
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    You, Marie are ESI, my friend.(yes my Ne came up with that, I provided my evidence to you above, no sources to cite) . I guess that might explain the quadra difference you sense. I also have sort of felt you aren't in my quadra too.

    I don't know what type she is. She's difficult and shallow minded, seems to actively hate people, eg smilingeyes, me, ashton. I don't know if it's type related or just an unhealthy person. She is a terrible judge of character, which suggests Fi isn't related to getting the right sense of people-actually I'd say that can come from Ne, but not necessarily.

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    Marie84 hates me so, which would be odd if she's ESI. Plus she comments about being terrified of and what not, among other things. EII self- typing seems appropriate.

    She seems to be quick to jump to peoples defence, eg hates you because Expat hates you, hates smilingeyes because Expat hates him, model A hates him. Hates me because I said something to logos. This sort of active defence/attack does to me suggest a possible use of Se in the ego block, as opposed to Se in the PoLR

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    @Marie,

    Often when I post typings, they are a gut feeling typing that I've posted to see whether people agree with me or not. As far as I can tell, most Ne egos here do this as well. I have my reliable sources and I check my typings with them (as well as do my learning of socionic theory from them--socionics isn't exactly a field with a lot of "reliable sources" I can quote like a gold standard ). And I also judge how reliable a source people who respond to my typings are before I take their comments seriously. If there is a big disagreement with my typing, I go back to my trusted sources and discuss the typing with them.

    as far as me having called myself a shy person, you're right I have considered EII as a typing for myself because of that (I still don't see how that quality alone makes me un-Delta), however as I've studied myself more in-depth I have come to realize I am a lot more social and outgoing than I had given myself credit for in the past. As was said on one of the Russian documentaries on socionics I watched on Youtube a while back (you're free to find it if you want) an introvert might have 5 friends and say "I have a LOT of friends" while an extravert might have 15 friends and say "I have so few friends " because that is not enough friends for the extravert. IME, IEE do tend to be a little shyer often than other extraverts in the socion (Evan Lysacek, Drew Barrymore, Dakota Fanning, Vanessa Carlton).

    Frankly, Marie, I'm a little surprised that someone supposedly with Ne in ego like yourself would take something I said about myself so literally and fail to see one's actual potential.
    You're right, I do take what people say literally (except in obvious situations like sarcasm or humor) and I see this as a difference in communication between and valuers, to varying degrees though. I'm not sure how you relate this to but I'd be willing to hear where/whom you heard this from

    (You actually strike me as ESI by this.) I mean, look at how much I post, for one thing. Also for someone who has been around socionics for a lot longer than me, I'm surprised that you judge extraversion by someone saying they're sociable or not. You should know by know that extraversion in socionics is not equated with "sociability"--this is an MBTI feature. Ne is about recognizing potential in things, people, situations and taking initiative on such recognition. It can result in being sociable sure, but if Ne determines there is no potential, or if Fi determines the person's essence is less than worthy or bad in some way, the NeFi extravert is going to act unsociable or "shy". I'm sorry I can't dig up a source for you right now as I'm on my blackberry, but you are free to perform a search youself. I am going by sources I've read though, not by just logical deduction
    That's fine, I have nothing against people retyping me (if it's done constructively, i.e. no character attacks); you have my full permission to start a "Marie is ESI" thread if you feel inclined

    You, Marie are ESI, my friend. (yes my Ne came up with that, I provided my evidence to you above, no sources to cite) . I guess that might explain the quadra difference you sense. I also have sort of felt you aren't in my quadra too.
    This is what I meant prior to speaking in conclusive tones, "you are [not]", even I'm not comfortable speaking in absolutes and I don't even claim to be an Ne dominant Ti PoLR

    And to reiterate, I never said you're not IEE, I really only have a vague impression of you and your approach, and you seem to be taking this very personally. fwiw, I like most people here and I try to be objective when I type, so me thinking you might not be IEE doesn't mean I dislike you, quite the contrary, I think you're a nice person

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    WA:

    out of everyone on the forum, marie is the one whose thought process i find the easiest (or one of the easiest) to follow and understand and who i tend to relate to the most. so going by the "vibe and impression" method of typing (which is what is happening in this thread from what i understand) we would have to be the same type, whatever type she happens to be. i don't know if marie thinks similarly about me, though. if she doesn't, is she wrong? should she be convinced that we are, in fact, a lot more similar than she thinks we are? what would it mean for our respective types?

    reading your posts in this thread has been kind of painful because i can see that you're taking whats been in the lists as some kind of rejection, but the thing is...i don't see anyone here actually rejecting you. and i think that's very important for you to see. as for myself, i told you that i like you and i've told you previously in chat that i find you very easy to talk to. i never said i felt "estranged" from you. i don't care what type you are. you're right in saying that i don't know you very well. i don't think i know you well enough to objectively type you. so, really, any opinion i might have about your type isn't something that should be taken very seriously at this point. that said, i haven't ruled out IEE.

    hope you're enjoying your travels and looking forward to your list.
    You haven't been around that long but I have related to you from what I've seen; you've often posted things that are almost identical to how I feel about things, if not identical. And I like your style of humor

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    Marie84 hates me so, which would be odd if she's ESI. Plus she comments about being terrified of and what not, among other things. EII self-typing seems appropriate.
    I don't hate you, I disagree with your approach to Socionics but that has nothing to do with you as a person and how I feel about you
    Last edited by Marie84; 11-28-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Marie84 hates me so, which would be odd if she's ESI. Plus she comments about being terrified of and what not, among other things. EII self- typing seems appropriate.

    She seems to be quick to jump to peoples defence, eg hates you because Expat hates you, hates smilingeyes because Expat hates him, model A hates him. Hates me because I said something to logos. This sort of active defence/attack does to me suggest a possible use of Se in the ego block, as opposed to Se in the PoLR
    Thanks for the Strawman, I'm always happy to have what I say and do butchered and misinterpreted to suit someones delusions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Thanks for the Strawman, I'm always happy to have what I say and do butchered and misinterpreted to suit someones delusions
    Whatever it is or isn't, we all need to sit on the can and take a dump.

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    Whew! i'm finally back from my travels!

    Now to address some posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh
    Reading your posts in this thread has been kind of painful because i can see that you're taking whats been in the lists as some kind of rejection, but the thing is...i don't see anyone here actually rejecting you. and i think that's very important for you to see. as for myself, i told you that i like you and i've told you previously in chat that i find you very easy to talk to. i never said i felt "estranged" from you. i don't care what type you are. you're right in saying that i don't know you very well. i don't think i know you well enough to objectively type you. so, really, any opinion i might have about your type isn't something that should be taken very seriously at this point. that said, i haven't ruled out IEE.
    Well thanks friend. I appreciate this clarification.

    On that note, I feel I should clarify that yes I was a little upset but i was upset more because I've always felt close to you (as much as a forum would allow) and have related very much to your posts. Ssmall's for the most part as well. And so i was unpleasantly shocked to see that you guys felt differently about this, enough to place me in a different quadra. I just didn't see that coming at all. From Marie or someone else that I haven't interacted with as much, maybe. Not from you guys. Though i must say I guess Ssmall and I haven't really interacted that much either now that i think about it.

    But anyway, that's what led to my feeling of rejection. I've studied socionics to enough of a degree and have considered but ruled out enough types that I feel pretty confident about my own type being IEE (again, with the slight possibility still of being EII) and my quadra being Delta. That has never been a question in my mind on this thread. My concern was why i come across the way I do to you guys and why this disconnect occurred.



    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    WA:

    out of everyone on the forum, marie is the one whose thought process i find the easiest (or one of the easiest) to follow and understand and who i tend to relate to the most. so going by the "vibe and impression" method of typing (which is what is happening in this thread from what i understand) we would have to be the same type, whatever type she happens to be. i don't know if marie thinks similarly about me, though. if she doesn't, is she wrong? should she be convinced that we are, in fact, a lot more similar than she thinks we are? what would it mean for our respective types?
    You know, i've thought about what you said here, and i'm thinking this could represent an Ij/Ij match vs Ij/Ep mismatch. I personally find Marie's posts to often be too long and dense to keep my attention. I'm always doing like 3-4 things at a time and usually in a hurry when i pop in here to read some posts.

    And i think you have a point with "if she doesn't, is she wrong?" You're right, i guess not.

    Interesting phenomena coming to the surface with this experiment...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    @WorkaholicsAnon: Chill down.
    What happened to the rest of your post? I liked what you said in the part you deleted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You, Marie are ESI, my friend.(yes my Ne came up with that, I provided my evidence to you above, no sources to cite) . I guess that might explain the quadra difference you sense. I also have sort of felt you aren't in my quadra too.

    I don't know what type she is. She's difficult and shallow minded, seems to actively hate people, eg smilingeyes, me, ashton. I don't know if it's type related or just an unhealthy person. She is a terrible judge of character, which suggests Fi isn't related to getting the right sense of people-actually I'd say that can come from Ne, but not necessarily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Marie84 hates me so, which would be odd if she's ESI. Plus she comments about being terrified of and what not, among other things. EII self- typing seems appropriate.

    She seems to be quick to jump to peoples defence, eg hates you because Expat hates you, hates smilingeyes because Expat hates him, model A hates him. Hates me because I said something to logos. This sort of active defence/attack does to me suggest a possible use of Se in the ego block, as opposed to Se in the PoLR
    Yes these were sort of the thoughts that were going through my mind when i stated my tentative typing of Marie. To sort of tie this together, the way Marie interprets things very literally--things people state, peoples' characters, etc strikes me as more SeFiTe rather than NeFiTe. The way I understand it, Ne processes things a lot more in depth and takes things beyond the obvious 5-sense level.


    Anyway, not meaning to turn this into a Marie typing thread. I just wanted to clarify my statement.
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    Thread split from: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...xperiment.html

    25 posts were moved, 9 of the earliest posts were copied...which I'll label

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post

    Essentially, I agree with your comparison of an end-effect - Te-HA is more in need of knowledge and Ti-HA of models. But I see the former manifest mostly as enthusiasm about knowledge, something which other types rarely show to this extent. In contrast to Te-DS, who need to put it all together in their mind first, they often seem to be happy with the knowledge itself and flaunt it around, but - and this is the key, in my opinion - it doesn't necessarily become a part of their mindset immediately just because of it. I attribute it to Ti-PoLR, as I see Ti as dealing with explicit models. IEE will accept no ready-made reasoning - they're more likely than not to reject it, along with models and theories they aren't convinced of yet; the PoLR judgments tend to be strong and negative, as in other types. They will, however, soak in the information and insist on putting it together on their own. It's actually quite endearing to watch .

    Ti-HA, on the other hand, seems like forming and becoming attached to a model, rather than to specific information. They have stronger Ti than IEEs, but as they have poor filter (Te-PoLR), they'll often quickly settle on a norm based on something. They prefer to get an explanation, a model - something IEEs detest - which will allow them to sort facts (I use the word so as not to refer to all information as "Te") and judge them based on their fitting it, as you described. This might be biased towards IEI Ti-HA, as it seems most visible in them.

    But my point is, Te-HA and Ti-HA are very different and I seriously think WA represents the former approach, though not in excess, some xEEs show more of it. She doesn't seem to rely upon explicit convictions or give them as ultimate arguments, the way Ti-HAs do, if they have them. In other words, your observations is she might word it strongly ("is", not "I think they are" or "could be"), but she isn't actually absolute about it, or at least I never got this impression. And using precise wording is very much dependent on other factors - people's patterns of speech are affected by whose company they keep, for one. While there may be more abstract semantic differences between types, exact vocabulary is too variable to associate with them. IME vocabulary section on wikisocion only works to confirm it.

    And as Ashton, I also think you may very well both be Delta NFs, while not quite compatible. I don't really relate to LIEs this much, not even to some of the self-typed ILIs here - but I fit in with them much more than Alpha NTs or other clubs, still.

    Sorry for the wall of text, it was meant to be a concise reply. (Yes, tut, process types. I know. )
    Thank you Aiss for verbalizing what I could not.

    You've interpreted me 100% correctly. I appreciate it very much!


    Marie is basically expecting Te from a Te-HA, which I'm not that great at providing (quotes of evidence, substantiation of my thoughts). Ne egos have a hard time with that because often an impression originates from a gestalt. And Aiss is totally right. When I say "someone is this type" i'm usually just proposing a tentative type, and that is what my gestalt is telling me at the time. It's always open for revision with more info. I'm also inviting discussion of my statement. I definitely want my misconceptions corrected!!! However, like i said before, when considering corrections of my misconceptions, I also consider the source those corrections are coming from before I decide to agree. Basically what Aiss said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Well thanks friend. I appreciate this clarification.


    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    But anyway, that's what led to my feeling of rejection. I've studied socionics to enough of a degree and have considered but ruled out enough types that I feel pretty confident about my own type being IEE (again, with the slight possibility still of being EII) and my quadra being Delta. That has never been a question in my mind on this thread. My concern was why i come across the way I do to you guys and why this disconnect occurred.
    i think its interesting how minor details in something like writing style can influence perception of a person. (i do think the exclamation points had an affect on me, stupid as that is.)

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    What happened to the rest of your post? I liked what you said in the part you deleted.
    i liked it too. parkster and i seem to have the same favorite qualities in you.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Yes these were sort of the thoughts that were going through my mind when i stated my tentative typing of Marie. To sort of tie this together, the way Marie interprets things very literally--things people state, peoples' characters, etc strikes me as more SeFiTe rather than NeFiTe. The way I understand it, Ne processes things a lot more in depth and takes things beyond the obvious 5-sense level.


    Anyway, not meaning to turn this into a Marie typing thread. I just wanted to clarify my statement.
    i can't say i agree with a lot of the stuff written about marie in this thread, but i will say i've noticed a certain meticulousness (?) in some of her posts that i've tentatively attributed to her being a normalizing type. i've noticed it to a large degree in Minde's posts, too. i've thought i might come across this way, as well, because of the way my mind works, but i guess i don't? which would be another example of the reflection-not-showing-back-quite-as-expected phenomenon.

    anyway, not a marie typing thread. right. lol.
    Last edited by lump; 11-30-2010 at 01:58 AM.

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    The only real impression I get from WA is that she probably isn't Gamma. She seems rather energetic, generally in a good way unless I don't agree with what she's doing, and she doesn't seem to like dwelling on negative things.

    As for Marie, I had considered recently that she is the person most similar to me out of the regular posters on this forum (with Logos and thehotelambush more distant in my memory, but they always show themselves to have the right approach and attitude to me). I easily understand her speech and her motivations, and find it to be made out of the right stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Sorry for the wall of text, it was meant to be a concise reply. (Yes, tut, process types. I know. )
    i your walls of text. /fawning beneficiary

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i your walls of text. /fawning beneficiary
    I Aiss's walls of text too. /fawning illusionary
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    The only real impression I get from WA is that she probably isn't Gamma. She seems rather energetic, generally in a good way unless I don't agree with what she's doing, and she doesn't seem to like dwelling on negative things.

    As for Marie, I had considered recently that she is the person most similar to me out of the regular posters on this forum (with Logos and thehotelambush more distant in my memory, but they always show themselves to have the right approach and attitude to me). I easily understand her speech and her motivations, and find it to be made out of the right stuff.
    I've noticed this... you both seem very similar in the way you think. I get the impression that I am a very different person to the both of you, however I understand, relate to and frequently find myself in agreement with your point of view on various matters. You both also remind me of Lobo, except seemingly a little more serious (I don't know if this is the right word as it suggests to me at least, frivolity as it's alternative, which is not a term I want to conjure in anyones mind)

    Actually Marie reminds me alot of Director Abbey except seemingly more mature and less energetic. (please scrub the word immature from your mind and replace it with maturing or youthful or some other pleasant euphamism, not that one is required. goodbye)
    IEE-Ne

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    I think y'all should define yourself as people and not socionics type. Sure do what you want, but I dread to think of the psychological consequences of comparing yourself to people you don't actually know on the internet, and heaven forbid it goes on irl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I think y'all should define yourself as people and not socionics type. Sure do what you want, but I dread to think of the psychological consequences of comparing yourself to people you don't actually know on the internet, and heaven forbid it goes on irl.
    I think most people do. It's intersting to me to see what prioties different people have, their relative strengths and weaknesses and how this effects our relationships. Comparing perceived similarities and differences based on even limited information is one of many ways that we can form an opinion on other people.

    I think y'all should pause before jumping to conclusions.
    IEE-Ne

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    None of that addresses my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    I think most people do. It's intersting to me to see what prioties different people have, their relative strengths and weaknesses and how this effects our relationships. Comparing perceived similarities and differences based on even limited information is one of many ways that we can form an opinion on other people.

    I think y'all should pause before jumping to conclusions.

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