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Thread: Can you put my essence into a box I doubt it, for i am just way too gay

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    Default Can you put my essence into a box. I doubt it, for i am just way too gay.

    Hey Fellas

    Im student totally obsessed with the concept of self and otherness, and in very many ways this defines me, though also you do you realize it or not ?! So that i was first grasped by mbti and later socionics to base myself and my identity to a silly description that i felt giving my life and myself a character that i could build on and chose the wise path towards future.

    From a tool it very soon evolved from an interest to fixation, and object of more attention than my life, and also my life revolved around the object of understanding myself, which also projected my outer manifestation out to prod and test the creatures of our world, and theyr fit in these sets i was given. You know when human gets obsessed with stuff, and gets its most pleasure from a single thing, but nevertheless needs new stimulation to escape boredom (thats what life essentially is enlarging,moving and dynamic) I got a need to test new hypotheses for what type i could be, (concious or unconcious) nevertheless, when i started testing for another type, my schemes of the types, for i had studied it very much, made me act like the type. Adopt its way of thought and soon the manners followed. So i kept chaning my type also doubting the whole system (am i an anomaly? or is it just that human psyche cant be captured to these schemes) , but there was one possibility, which was the enfj, for they are know get lost in theyr characters and thoughts about themselves wholeheartedly.

    Im very much of proscrastinator, i have much schoolwork to do, but instead i surf the net reading about personality, and addition to that im also an impulsive eater (low self control) even though i have system of thought about being vegetarian and heating healthy to better myself and be examplary and leading a life of continence. Im nevertheles very easily by external situation made to react in a way that i get totally taken away by the impulse and instict, which is why i tend to avoid places where such things could happen. If you have any questions please ask, i will clear this mess of text, but i will need specific answers. I allways write in a very passionate way, and i feel like if i stop to critically examine the work i do, it
    really feels like a rape.. Lets have a dialectic exchange of interpretions till we get to the synthesis where our understanding has transformed to beautyfull whole.

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    Also im often in doubt, meaning that i will have a belief that i keep on and on testing, and search from the outside something solid to guarantee and make me sure, so i often ask people questions in the hope that they will answer in a way that will forward my understanding, i often ask about personality types, and how im viewed and about other people. Also before i used to read alot about psychology about qualities like intelligence, personality and talentedness. I had a period of doing alot intelligence tests onlife (which i searched because i suspected to be alot more intelligent than the average (im now alot more less polarilazing about peoples qualities to theyr intelligence, but personality theories and testing them in actuality, has made me give alot wider and essential picture about our individually collective being.

    Anyway about the being in doubt i thought that someone might interpret searching for guarantees, as some logic function seeking (possibly, maybe not.) I was never satisfied by the online intellgence tests, as i thought they had high probability to be a scam. So i went to do the actual thing, and with that guarantee i have let it pass. And now i have newer obsession which is about personality. Through this discourse of my being and otherness i believe we both evolve, as i get few steps closer to certainty, a whole bigger picture enters and so on. Life is really something, but im not happy with the way it is. Not really, alot to be done there is.

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    It's not a box.

    People say 'socionics is bullshit cuz there's more than 16 types of people, you're just trying to label/categorize people, put them in a box!'

    But it's not like that. Putting somebody in a box is ....literally putting them a box. Socionics is just a label of your innate, default personality that you cannot change.

    I can't tell if you're serious or just having fun but either way lol welcome to our neurotic slow suicide nothing ness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It's not a box.

    People say 'socionics is bullshit cuz there's more than 16 types of people, you're just trying to label/categorize people, put them in a box!'

    But it's not like that. Putting somebody in a box is ....literally putting them a box. Socionics is just a label of your innate, default personality that you cannot change.

    I can't tell if you're serious or just having fun but either way lol welcome to our neurotic slow suicide nothing ness.

    =D Awesome ! No im allways bit a both, or actual i tend to think myself as having a very serious genesis masked by cheery playfullness and jokeness. About the box i wasnt serious. I was merely joking(having fun as you said =) ), and playing for the effect so that i would get more reads, and so more replies. My agenda is to get myself the type cleared. I have done obsessed with this.
    Anyways thank you for your welcomeness =), and yes i have noted that this place seems to be on the verge of decadency. But there must still be sparks of the better times (oh please tell me there were those) somewhere left.

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It's not a box.

    People say 'socionics is bullshit cuz there's more than 16 types of people, you're just trying to label/categorize people, put them in a box!'

    But it's not like that. Putting somebody in a box is ....literally putting them a box. Socionics is just a label of your innate, default personality that you cannot change.

    I can't tell if you're serious or just having fun but either way lol welcome to our neurotic slow suicide nothing ness.
    I definitely thought this was either a parody of you or you doing some sort of weird parody of yourself for some unknown purpose. Is it not?
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Okay babes, even though thats all nice and you are some pretty people. Just dont fuck up my thread, for trespassin for the silly things, how about you provide me with some answers i was lookings for or WTF. I will be a nasty devil to you guys. (Im scared you actually want that)

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    He sort of has my psychological energy to an extent but no it's not me, silverchris.

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    I dont really apreciate being reduced to being someones parody, but nevertheless, i suppose these thoughts of you would bring me to the beta quandra and likely nf type. Amirite ?
    I dont think i will stay here long, on this forum i mean. So many errands do to and vision to fullfill. Or maybe if you are with me in the red company, i might reconsider. But this forum seems to be full of decadent trolling and incomprehensibe crossroads of definitions, that reduce most of you a conflicted center where everyones past has chained your egos to your ideas and fixed positions that totally block every chance to actually constructively talk things out. Seperation and distrust. Well im ofc im leaving the delta out. They actually seem nice.

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    I dont really apreciat being reduced to being someones parody, but nevertheless, i suppose these thoughts of you would bring me to the beta quandra and likely nf type. Amirite ?
    I dont think i will stay here long, on this forum i mean. So many errands do to and vision to fullfill. Or maybe if you are with me in the red company, i might reconsider. But this forum seems to be full of decadent trolling and incomprehensibe crossroads of definitions, that reduce most of you a conflicted center where everyones past has chained your egos to your ideas and fixed positions that totally block every chance to actually constructively talk things out. Seperation and distrust. Well im ofc im leaving the delta out. They actually seem nice. (I have stayed up the night, to complete school works so my thougths are even more jumbling and incoherent mess.) Please excuse me
    Also i wondered if my inability to trust my own conclusions, would be indicative of the weaker function. I mean my conclusions for my type or personality trait, that i have decided upon comparing other types to others, and trying to form a picture of what traits or atributes correlate to me.
    Last edited by NewBorn STAR; 11-22-2010 at 09:26 PM.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    you're just trying to label/categorize people
    Of course I am.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    * Director Abbie suggests Gamma NT

    ESTj
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    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    MuffinPouredFullofshit

    Can you put my essence into a box.
    I could, but I'm going to flush it down the toilet where it belongs.

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    More seriously... inability to trust your own conclusions points to weak Thinking (and therefore strong Feeling), imo. This fits decently with Beta NF. Your heavy interest in psychology points to Intuitive... I'm going with IEI over EIE, though I'm not sure that my reason is very good (I'm almost certain that an EIE would be happier analyzing his work than an IEI would).



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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    * Director Abbie suggests Gamma NT
    Booooooooooooo!

    My initial impression was "another crabby gay IEI with unwarrantedly high self-entitlement".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    * Director Abbie suggests Gamma NT
    Thats interesting, when i chose to empathize the beta nf thing, i thought it would really unlikely that someone would take out gammas. But in actuality i found them to be positive alternative. But im not sure how te would manifest in me, i read alot but not really about something that would make me more efficient, though about proactive stuff like philosophy or other interesting stuff, that i imagine could futher my conciousness. Also im heavy fe user, in as i make alot jokes, and questions intented to give out emotional reaction, not for other reasons.

    Also if someone disrespects my values or my sense of meaning i might get really angry and angressive. Though i dont show well if im atracted to someone, and im even scared of it. And in addition if i talk to people, and give them a certain impression. Im scared of not being unable to uphold or keep that impression, or make another more interesting one. Which would crash my sense of identity. (this might not be type related though). I might act like im really sad to escape the responsibility. Im passionate in arguments.

    But i would be interested in hearing, that what makes you think gamma. I have wondered ,if not really trusting anything else, but good source like doing the official mensa test (trusting a more concrete system). Though im still suspicious of it, and even if you guys would convince me, i would still be suspicious, because so many little factors, like what words i chose to use, or some projectation of myself, might be more proclaimed, than the aunthentic thing. I have hard time distinguishing the aunthentic from the other kind (could be a general thing though.
    MuffinPouredFullofshit


    Quote:
    Can you put my essence into a box.

    I could, but I'm going to flush it down the toilet where it belongs.
    But theres chocolate, and dont we know that shit has extremely good nourishment values. We should become more like those humble creatures in south Asia: Im talking of course about the mountain gorillas.. recycling theyr foods, first to the mouth, then shit it out and eat it again. Shit is revolution, and i demand you to honor it. Or maybe you live in the toilet undergrounds, and fiercely want my company. Oh im coming babe, Im totally coming

    I really hope this isn't just a joke because this seriously could have been written by me... except, with better grammar, no offense. This is my experience with this socionics crap, but I still study it, because I am convinced that if a am ever able to grasp it completely, it will benefit me greatly. But maybe that's just dumb.
    EDIT: so, what I mean is I'm pretty sure your my identical, but I don't know my own type, soooo..... heh.
    It's not a joke. I was really confused by those psychotic ones, on what they were rambling on. But i so understand you by your claims of wanting to learn socionics, oh great identity. The one who was given the same parts. Parts in this great university that are colored like mine. Same focus on the world. Possibly atleast.

    But on socionics, it has been a great tool on understanding people, even though im uncertain on how much it reveals about people. But atleast on the delta quandra, on theyr way of just living in the condition on the context they have been given on time, for themselves. Instead of wanting to affect it for the future generations. For humanity and eros(life, creativity.) They give somewhat of guidelines and methods of testing stuff. Which also gives understanding and power. But i must say that understanding isnt enough. I also need to do. Have an impact on the world. I wonder if that points towards extroversion ?

    So i have never met people that claim to be similiar to me. So i would be extremely curious about you. If you dont mind. I would love to share views and understanding and goals about our ways. If you still feel alike, how about we share something of us to comfirm something about the system and if we do that, we also do so about ourselves and others. Because this picture about the world and our place in there is very much connected in socionics too. Also of PLaton. Everyone having because of theyr qualities a distinct place as human souls on theyr support on the whole of us. And all need to find themselves theyr place and contribute to life, by expressing themselves, in whatever way they find to be best for themselves. (some of it, i feel little relunctant about writing this stuff, as i feel it will steer away too much away from my personality type, which is my main motivation for this forum.) But maybe you would be so nice to write something =). (Also my bad grammar is in due for it being my third language, first being finnish, then swedish.)

    More seriously... inability to trust your own conclusions points to weak Thinking (and therefore strong Feeling), imo. This fits decently with Beta NF. Your heavy interest in psychology points to Intuitive... I'm going with IEI over EIE, though I'm not sure that my reason is very good (I'm almost certain that an EIE would be happier analyzing his work than an IEI would).
    Im pretty certain about being intuative, even though i might be impulsive and angressive and very iniating in my close surroundings, but those moments arent very often. Even in my childhood, i basicly just read huge ammount of books, all the time, basicly i did live in those books (which is interesting since, im not sure if thats extroversion or introversion, as you are reading something your concentrating on something thats out of your mind, coming to your mind, and or introversion in that those pictures come inhabit your mind whereas, you are concentrating there. But i have tendency to concentrate on the conceptions i have figured, more than my actual surroundings.

    But im hell bent on my surroundings to fit my conceptions, not the other way around. And now about your picture, im here to help me understand myself more fully and as the theory dictates to gain better and through view about where i could fit best, be the most use, for myself and others, as im happy and in positive place for myself, i would be the most self expressing and producing person i could be, so therefore also giving others the most. Understanding our inner most qualities we can then evaluate the external world through on where we could be the optimal use. (I understand you were joking, had to comment anyway). Im not sure about the other stuff, maybe you have more to say now ?


    BulletsAndDoves He sort of has my psychological energy to an extent but no it's not me, silverchris.
    Sounds really interesting(of course it is when we are talking about me) , maybe you could elaborate. Could you see us as identicals ?


    k0rps3y Quote:
    Originally Posted by Director Abbie
    * Director Abbie suggests Gamma NT

    Booooooooooooo!

    My initial impression was "another crabby gay IEI with unwarrantedly high self-entitlement".
    Dont know where you are quoting that. But its impossible to say if im entitled yet. And oh I AM BY THE FORCES OF OUR NATURE, AND THe STARS. STARS !
    I have gotten knowledge hidden and so sacred, about our place and your place in the world. The gods have great plans on my chosen body, and here i am unleashing those plans on 16types, thats where the revolution starts. The change of our world. Right here. Right now. Can you dig it ? If you cant, its mother earths hammering time. You know in the bible when moses gets the ocean to move away from his people. Im talking about that kind of hammering, bitch. Get ready to pray.
    But yeah thanks for your evalution. I apreciate it

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    I see Hamlet, the actor...but he might be just young and/or acting...

    Could be Don for the crazy side...

    Could be Tom Sawyer too but not Jack London.

    The doubt about self and wanting logical proof or that it all makes sense, makes me say Hamlet.

    Esenin...well...a very energized one then!
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    * Director Abbie suggests Gamma NT
    What in favor of gamma? Anything particular he said?
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


    -----
    Know your body, know your mind, know your limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeroZen View Post
    I see Hamlet, the actor...but he might be just young and/or acting...

    Could be Don for the crazy side...

    Could be Tom Sawyer too but not Jack London.

    The doubt about self and wanting logical proof or that it all makes sense, makes me say Hamlet.

    Esenin...well...a very energized one then!
    Not much time now, but im eighteen so i must be young to you, grandpa , though enough for you to embrace my whole physical being. Not that i would care. My life is for continence. I sacrifice my life to the spiritual level, the one that cant be embraced by fucking itself, unless that moment when one ejaculates, and clears the mind from everything, maybe thats the thing my budhist friend used to call seminirvana, only in touch with the everythingness. Not letting material stuff mix and steer you from the spiritual path. (Well if thats like how one is in nirvana (heaven in christianity =same bullshit) all i can say that, they resemble most like fucking idiots. What kind of religion states its main principle to be reach nothingness. Mind numbed zombies drooling on theyr nonexistance. Thats not a way to support life, the organic slime, that i love so. Staying up these few nights, have taken a toll on me. Im rambling like old drunken bum..

    Nevertheless friend, you came to the same conclusion as me. It just taked you a few minutes, whereas i struggled with it for few years, and i only came to the same conclusions, because i had switched my types so many times, that ignoring borderline personality disorder, the personality type actor was the only one that made sense. First one that affirms my beliefs, thank you for that. The intuitive subtype of course. And as a note others, im totally not decided upon this. Im asking you people. If you have suspicions, doubts or critical minds wanting to find the truth, for whatever motivation you have (selfimprovement, understanding, altruism (seems like a dead belief these days) oh i ask you come and unleash yourselves upon me. Because what i grave most is certainty of myself, if its even possible with this tool, im not sure. Is this dual seeking btw ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    Booooooooooooo!

    My initial impression was "another crabby gay IEI with unwarrantedly high self-entitlement".
    I think he has , but it would be rude to call someone Beta.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    I just know they could both learn to paragraph.
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


    -----
    Know your body, know your mind, know your limits.

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    For example. today, I decided that I was SLE, and so I was! I acted SLE all day long and watched people respond to my different behavior. I know in my mind that tomorrow I will realize that I'm probably not SLE, and then adopt a new type to play. (maybe this is something all people do when they're trying to find their type, though... )
    Oh dear Vois, bee there done that. I taked it to the extremies even, in my view estp was something like manifestation of boldness and animal impulsive energy. Those were some reckless times,which didnt last too long, it started to feel like unme. Like i hadnt payed enough attention to stuff, i really cared about. BUT DAMN, You really are like me. Finding me, finding you, huh ? Also i found from a passage, from wikipedias enfj domain, which supports our beliefs on being enfj: will quote :
    "As a substitute for struggle, toying with others is really fun. EIEs create their moods, more so than some of the other types. We generally tend to behave how those surrounding us expect us to behave. We may keep these appearances for a long time, especially if we join two circles that otherwise do not interact. Members of each circle will think differently of us, depending, in large part, on how they wish to see us. Few people in general know the true face of the EIE, and not all of those close to us necessarily do. It is not that we do not like people or do not want friends; most EIEs just have standards.
    ". This was more indirectly, but this other:"
    We take the mindset of whoever we think we are. I suppose many historical brave heroes were EIE - they saw themselves as brave heroes so they acted like brave heroes! They were able to do things that no one in their right mind would willingly do and they even had the humble attitude "I'm not a hero, I'm just a regular person" because heroes who know they're heroes are just self-centered jerks. (think [|Johnny Bravo]).
    " makes it really easy to imagine us behave the uncertain way we do, and adapting the behavior we think we are (sounds very enfj thing, hence the actor!) Aint this exciting !! We are getting closer to the goal. Though of course some random geezer might come and destroy our dreams, that seem to be coming down, like that meteorite that killed the dinosaurs.:wink: .


    and I've never met people who I thought I was similar to. at least, not here, and if I saw them face to face, I passed them by without thinking twice. and I would love to share as well. I don't know if you meant for me to do so right here in your thread, or if you wanted me to PM you or what, but it would probably be more beneficial to the website as a whole if I did so in public, so why not? The first thing I read in your original post that really stood out to me was the part when you said that you "play the role of different types," or something along those lines. I was like, whoa, I always do that. For example. today, I decided that I was SLE, and so I was! I acted SLE all day long and watched people respond to my different behavior. I know in my mind that tomorrow I will realize that I'm probably not SLE, and then adopt a new type to play. (maybe this is something all people do when they're trying to find their type, though... ) I also have a need to impact the world, somehow. there is a play I read which compares really influential people to stars (literally, the kind in the sky) with really strong gravitational pulls, and when society passes by these "stars", the gravitational pull spins society off in a new direction. after reading that, I thought that I might like to be like one of those people. the way you write reminds me of how I write sometimes, when i try to write poetry, which is interesting.... you should share some of your views because I don't really know if anything I've put so far has been helpful, and this is your thread. haha. also, that's impressive (about the languages). I only know one, but I'm hoping to learn Russian... for socionics purposes. hehe.
    Wow, i can definetly identify, with this thought patterns, expecially wanting to bring out the uncertainty (ni), so if things go different than we proposed, we had it noted atleast. And i really find that admirable, and too rare thinking pattern of considering the others. I thought that too, that here on the thread, so others going the same and searching the forums could benefit, from this exchange like us.(Isnt this fe btw?) I have allways had an inclination to self sacrifice for the good of others, i see that as very defining feature in me. Also i came here with very little expectations, as i have tendency to expect the worst. So i have allready gotten alot more than i deared to expect. Affirmation of me and my thoughts upon myself, trough socionics, its alot.

    About my views thats gonna be a load i could write a book or few, but i will keep it short and try to keep it clear, but once again i will quote the enfj domain:"Our EIE section suffers from a lack of . In layman's terms, we write way too much and do not know how to condense it down. We are doing our best and thank you for your consideration. "
    (I had final philosophy exam today, wrote 6 hours straight, but few coffees, and its gonna be ok)

    I believe in the universal process having a meaning, and it being determined, us just playing our roles as the souls and builders of the organic process, shaping our world, and moving it towards the bigger something. All along being guided by the tvset in our head (conciousness and the pictures in it) getting images from the fifth dimension. First postulate WE ARENT AUTONOMOUS CREATURES, we dont create our thoughts, are thoughts are given to us. Certain way of automatic processing of the world, and then we do what these impulses tell us based our given innate atributes, free will is an illusion. All is determined.

    Through our innate atributes and the external world, we move like chemical in the body, exchanging information concious and unconcious creating the giant singular entity, that is our world, the reflection of universal forces. To us whereas we interpret it the way that is natural to us, yet in a unfortunately incomplete fashion. Similiarly like microbes alter theyr enviroment have a dialectical process that changes both to another level, the same way on a bigger scale we also have this conversation with the world and eachother, that changes everything. Humans different types of them (socionics ftw) with theyr seemingly unique mental words as masses, as together in our world we form strong forces, that through the ideologies and and thought pattern, manifest theyr forces on the physical level, where the ideologies meet and conflict, and become a synthesis where there again rises new forces.
    We are given our own vision of live, and if we trust it and throw it to the public, we begin the fight for our vision, against all the other. Struggle for our own worth, slaves to the internal knowing. And desperation to bring it to truth. As a belief that shapes people towards the things that i deem necessary. For i believe to posses the innate qualities that have given me the gift of being a person of direction and vision of what we should do for the future. Innate leader. And i will fight for those beliefs. So yeah, i very much resonate, with your star analogy, its quite fitting. Just as important though its to keep in mind, that instead of just being for the power for the powers sake, there should be a clear reasons, for what you are for to enchance human life and its survival to the future, or in my opinion we could just close our lights lock us inside and wait for our doom . Vois if you are a person, that is far sighted, and willing to sacrifice your self for the good our race, for the sympathy and love and pure feelings of enjoyment towards it. Then you are right person for the part. Then just find the place where you could actualise yourself.

    Some might note that my view is somewhat remiscent of Hegel or Marx, but instead of them believing in a static state, that will be reached, it goes far far futher away, whereas they have reached the place where we contribute not for our own need, and desire, but simply to self actualise ourselves as meaningfull servants of our people. Not huge load of cash motivating us , but the betterment of ourselves, and collective entity, thats moving as process towards to match better with our world, helping us adapt and being closer and more actualised version of our potential. When we have reached the communist ideal (if we do) then there would be a block, where we would not be moving no more, we would have reached our maximium capacity, then there would be other form born, maybe from the science, the transhumanistic tendencies would take over, and we would become stronger more capable as overall, and then as the singularities and possibilities become even bigger, its impossible to predict that what kind of world we will live in. Maybe we will even give birth to an entity that is far more powerfull,aware and adapted to this world.(Machinesingularityconciousness, very explored in different scifi products.) But point is that we will aways evolve, and keep on moving towars the potential, as we are part of the determined universal process, that is moving as organic force, following the path we have given.

    That path is hidden in our world, through the thigns that will give us peace, prosperiety and expansion. Helping live and expressing ourself, towards new ways of moving forward. The things that gives one pleasure, one of the most important is other humans and the interaction with them, and helping them, if you dont or replace the interaction with something like external replacement, like drugs or whatever, that doesnt actualise yourself, or help others in a meaningfull way (everyone needs a meaning, do they admit or not) will only keep you as a block for whatever you could be, the innate character with what you could best be the most powerfull and strongest being, and affect the world in the predetermined way you sould.And unconciously not beign that one will hurt you. Or doing stuff, that are externally manifested conradiction of not helping other, but contributing to thanatos, and by necessity as we are social beings,and allways connected to eachother, the lifestyle we have will allways impact others, if you are filled with bad habits and self destructive behavior, this is also the way you will inflict yourself upon others like a virus.And being that will also, make your enviroment filled with sadness, desperation and lonelyness. Peace and prospect people. Dont inhibit your positive side. Learn to trust it.

    As our collective conciousness grows in the manfestation of science, thats the ultimate form of our adaptive quality we became more aware of the things, and about what we should do to ensure our happiness, and long lived productiviness and capability. And life for the other. Isnt there things that we enjoy about humanity, for some it might be music, the arts, the communication whatever, that shows our deep affection to people. From this awareness isnt there a need to ensure our love and the positive qualities in humanity to other generations, for what is my enjoyment more greater than theyrs. Even if human race would a deep disturbation of stability (as Zizek says) , an destructive perversity, that keeps destroying and raping the world. But its still a perversity im part of, one that im enjoying, and the one im gonna fight for. Struggle for our rapist rampage . For im not part of the nothingness of galaxy, but im a human being, im the upholder of our skin.

    Still shortly, im allways interested and willing to talk about my views when there are people interested in hearing.I hope you did vois, and will share about how it resonated with you, and more importantly affected you. I would be most interested. If you dont agree, with something feel free to express it.
    So as we know the biggest thing causing disorder confusion, and hate and destruction. Is the view of seeing others as innately different and seperated. As autonomous and out for our own good/pleasure only. Which is obvious contradiction to what i have said, these people will see theyr goals over the others, and is the biggest cause of conflict, view two distinct nations, that want same resource, but try to battle it out for getting it for themselves, instead of realizing, the sameness that we posses, the superficiousness of the distinction. To let this be forgotten to the pass of time, we should try to connect humanity as one nation, with right people deciding abotu stuff, for the good of everyone, now the warsystem, and the collective view of others differing from us is only the source of conflict. Laying on the past on the false identity of national identity that is based on the ignorance of humanity. Superficial distinction can be drawn on other atributes to, skin color, age, height, sex and sexuality for example. Which has very little to do with theyr innate value or theyr personalitys power. Im not sure if i made an convincing argument here. The tiredness is stopping me, but if someone wants me to elaborate i will gladly do so later. This was a glimpse of my views. I hope i could be somethign positive to someone. Also the capitalist system is based on the conception of all those qualities, which i of course reject.But of course with some changes, half way capitalistic half way socialistic, we coudl geta good mix.

    oh crap. this sounds like me too (especially the bold part). haha. is it sad or extremely narcissistic that I am kindof excited about this?
    If you truly have been so obsessed with the system like i have, its only natural that you would be excited when the blink of hope enters your vision, of helping you actualise yourself. But please dont let this get you too addicted so that other activity and impacting the outer world truly suffers. Though im not a good example of this. I allways have the hope that people will do like i say,even though im not able to. Im excited too ! I find you awesome, taking the context in focus.

    Funny though. I dont think one would expect messages like this from a nick: MuffinPouredfullofshit


    I think he has , but it would be rude to call someone Beta.
    What a clever way to disguise your failures. The inaunthenticity of your message is obvious (most likely intented so, but im not sure if you thought it to end) As ironically using the excuse of being polite to me masking the unpoliteness, stating the unpolite thing. Indirectly which destroys the intention, which makes somekind of ironic paradox, that i like in away. But i have noted a tendency for you to be the guy who comes to thread and shouts the improbable answer. Maybe your doing it unintentionally, and this destructive message is a projection of frustration. Do you understand it or not.

    I just know they could both learn to paragraph.
    Type trait found !111! Way to identify as enfj, unable to paragraph. Lets be proud of this !

    Okay thats for the day

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    Lol you sure look like copycats, to the point I'm suspecting you created two accounts and are having a lot of fun pretending it's a dialog...
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

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    Usually one has to ask people questions and direct them a bit so they talk about the relevant details of their personalities.

    With you, one has to ask himself what question to ask in order to get something else than a barely-relevant-for-typing purposes wall of text out of you...nuance.



    ----

    So, do you want us to seriously follow the Hamlet hypothesis, seeing you already identify to that type?
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


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    Quote Originally Posted by KeroZen View Post
    Lol you sure look like copycats, to the point I'm suspecting you created two accounts and are having a lot of fun pretending it's a dialog...
    OMG BUSTED. Your display of ne and ti is remarkable 11


    (obvious provoke, which i think you also try to)

    KeroZen Usually one has to ask people questions and direct them a bit so they talk about the relevant details of their personalities.

    With you, one has to ask himself what question to ask in order to get something else than a barely-relevant-for-typing purposes wall of text out of you...nuance.



    ----

    So, do you want us to seriously follow the Hamlet hypothesis, seeing you already identify to that type?
    Life and personality is simple, there are many factors to consider. And i dont really trust myself on telling stuff like how i think i seem to others, like on extroversion or stuff like that, because i think its very corruptive and has a tendency to be twisted by my thought patterns. So i thought by expressing my views and stuff that goes inside my head would be alot better and aunthentic for typing purpose, because everything else i could mask or disguise. I thought it was the best way to find the most fitting one. Though i understand that many different functions could have brought me to these views or ways to respond to people, but i didnt really get questions that would bring me to ways that would be more relevant. POssibly the awe of the wall of texts ,D.

    Im not quite sure what you mean by following it, you mean like put it to test. If so yeah please ! Nothing would be better than destroy my views, and find the actual truth, i would rather be shattered down, to new start. Than be upholder of lies. If you mean that by following, you mean accepting me being Hamlet as you nicely put. Which i asnwer, that if you dont have any reason to object it, then of course. If you do have suspicions then i would apreciate tormenting me.

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    I was making fun don't worry, your posts are way more relevant than what I said and you are right in the sense that trying to express it all without thinking in functions or information elements terms is surely better.

    My remark was more of a "shall we go to the point now?" kind, as in trying to probe one hypothesis or the other...

    You also said you wouldn't stay here very long iirc, so if time is against us...

    What in particular made you identify to EIE, apart from your test results of course?
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


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    Quote Originally Posted by KeroZen View Post
    I was making fun don't worry, your posts are way more relevant than what I said and you are right in the sense that trying to express it all without thinking in functions or information elements terms is surely better.

    My remark was more of a "shall we go to the point now?" kind, as in trying to probe one hypothesis or the other...

    You also said you wouldn't stay here very long iirc, so if time is against us...

    What in particular made you identify to EIE, apart from your test results of course?
    Ah ! I see what you did there. All fine and dandy then.. Well i was sorth of covering myself for the possible sense of shame, for telling from the beginning that i wouldnt be here long. So if i left people would be like, oh but he said he wouldnt be here for long... so ok. And wouldnt think like i run away from fear or other less perfect reasons. If this wasnt right place to express myself or so on. But now im not sure, i see it like here are some smart people, who i would be interested in sharing views and try to create a fuller picture and understanding of socionics. I see this place as full of potential. As i dont have many friends who are interested in socionics, doesnt mean that i would wholeheartedly focus on socionics, or that its the main thing that would define me. If that crosses your mind. So im uncertain how much time im gonna spent here. Fingers crossed.:wink:

    But yeah its about time to try to get this thread on the more substancefilled track.Since my main motivation here is to find my type. And find people that could vanguish doubts. And in actuality when i first came to socionics. I scored as entp, for i was allready an entp in mbti, so i was biased as i tested. And taking the test every time i would score what i thought i was as personality type, for i instantly got a good grasp on how the functions trasnlated to test. So the test is worthless for me anyway. Well here is the most important thing for believing i was enfj aswell. Its that whenever i thought i was some type. I would completly adopt a world view and behavior patterns to what i thought would be right for the type: i have been entp, intp, infj, enfp, infp, estp and isfj even completly changing my behavior, and changing because i felt everytime that somehow the thing i was acting wasnt me.

    And then finally i concluded that enfj was most likely because of my strong vision and passion for making it true and in addition the things i stated before. I felt enfj being closest for most certainly i am an actor. And i think i have shown alot about my thought patterns by showing what i find myself to be in actuality and the world too. Im not sure if im answering in a satisfying way. As im mostly recycling the past stuff i wrote. But this is the definite. Maybe our information processing ways are little too different for eachother to communicate in a way that would bring us a change, a satisfying conclusion. If you have questions please ask

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    Oh yeah, and why i chose ethics is because i concentrate on people and on how they should live, and promote these views very enthustiacly or im acting angressive if they dont act like i think they should. Or i might show different emotionals, depending on how i think i should feel. Its very controlled. So more about people, than how to make a system better or efficient. I dont really think in such terms. I could be mistaken here. If i am please do clear.

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    Unfortunately I'm not allowed to give you more than hints at the present time.

    My own type being challenged by some members of this forum, I'll refrain posting about others own type until it's settled. I feel it's fairer this way.

    Veterans should chime in, please be patient.
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


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    The faces twisting from the wall, none like mine. Gazing the space, afraid of my own picture. Looking away, ignoring the swift pace of perceptual exchange between the mirror and me. The gods of faith dragged me to this new obstacle, for closer to the absolute, that stands before me, and soon will morph with me, AND as the DRONE- I get new mission and order to overcome. This poor boy, with scissors for a sword is confronted by the leviathan of our own device, its owerwhelming will to opress, its structure and its massive tail, ready to swing Rigid and unflexible, even throwing thousands against it, would only be melted to this giant black star.
    Mirror coming to life. So unlike the rest. Alike? What? I try to take it. Sculpture it. Look at it. So beautiful. Dancing around worshipping and loving the picture that is identical (dont matter, im blind). Was this meant ? The words were given to me, but i decided to focus on my fixation, to block out the pain of castration. My sense is fullfilled- I never needed to do anything. And there im falling to the deep sea, DESIRING for it- Past glories forgotten. Love of myself, they say im drowning with Narcissus. Is it me over the other. Why does it matter. Help yourself you help the other. Those words ignored. IGNORANCE. False fulfillment.
    Time left me only with an empty shell which my hands are desperately trying to keep cherished, and the cracks tight, not unfolding. And i seem to manage, but soon im becoming aware of the paradox, world has taken a face, and screams to me: the shell seems to be possessed by black demon, where are you my love? Its thorns growing past me, its eyes looking through me. Unable to get away, the world had become small. And i was shut in a tiny closet. Hearing its heavy breathing. It opens its mouth and im shallowed to the pit of abyss.

    Cliché or not, boring or not, somebody cares or not. I felt like trying to express myself abit differently this time. Its filled with irony in its whole structure. So its not to be taken serious, or i feel like it's the drowning with Narcissus itself- I would be uncomfortable, with compliments, because i feel like it's not very good of me, but im trying to reveal here different parts of my persona (so this is gonna be a very different type of post than before), for im still doubting about the the type thing, and im wanting you to comfirm yet still, to vanguish all doubts, but if your not actually feeling it anymore, please reveal it. The reason im still doubting, are your thoughts about feeling underdeveloped, in comparison, might be reflection of focus on slightly different information elements. Then again the messages, and information you have wished to convey to me, are something i totally relate to. Also i thought about inviting others supposedly enfjs, to see how they relate to this. As im not very sure if there are actually very many people here, with any qualifications to actually estimate the type, so i thought about taking some actions myself.

    To be honest, i felt something like a immense delight from discovering you. And then through pondering it, i came to the conclusion, that it was completly natural, to get this feeling for the affirmation of ideas that have been running around in my head wanting to find theyr truth value by confronting the world , and the experience of someone sharing traits that i have, even thought i believed there are different people some like me with theyr distinct purpose but this is AFFIRMATION OF IT,T HE JOY! Because of that it's natural to connect these feelings the object that brought them, but it would be severerly misguided to become a hunter for that lost feeling, craving for the same thing to happen again and again, instead of focusing on whats more likely to be beneficial (instead of being a drug addict, video game addict,alcoholic or tvaddict) in the longer term and giving sense of purpose and wellbeing. We differ from animals in that we can think about the consequence in actions, other more others less. And the ones who focus on this because of theyr basic qualities are the ones who are the guiders of humanity. (You can take another view, and see some others part as the doers of humanity, i dont mean to glorify any type or other stuff like that.)

    I had the strong, astounded/astonished/enlightening feeling that I always get upon reading something that really rings true in my head, while reading your posts. I hardly ever get this feeling except when I read something that truly seems to resonate with thoughts that I’ve had, or tried to have, or haven’t even had yet but still seem like something that I might think of, if I had been on the same train of thought of the person who’s ideas I am reading. There is this quote by Paulo friere, which sparked the feeling I am getting now, back when I first read it. maybe it will for you too:
    “the truth is, however, that the oppressed are not ‘marginals,’ are not people living ‘outside’ society. They have always been ‘inside’ – inside the structure which made them ‘beings for others.’ The solution is not to ‘integrate’ them into the structure of oppression, but to transform that structure so that they can become ‘beings for themselves.’” (he wrote this in an essay about the oppression that western public schools create)
    Anyways, I noticed while reading your posts, that whatever type we are (I’m thinking EIE now ? ), I think that you are more developed within the strengths of that type, so I hope that my views and responses don’t seem underdeveloped to you. Feel free to point out to me if they are and how they can be improved and what you disagree with and all that, though ?
    The things you said in the beginning, are such things i could have again said myself, its astonishing still and our joy should be understandable. As we have put this structure (socionics), to fill our minds, with structure and tool to compare our enviroment and predict its moves, and also how it would correlate to the larger picture , how we could most benefit us and others. So we test and try to find a concessus to get a understanding that is more in synch with what actually is (or so we believe.) So in this system we got a important step towards affirming, that our spent time isnt in vain, and that it might have merit. Certain people actually think very much like us and other people like the others, and they could benefit or the opposite to others. So this is proof for the idea of the actual existans of human types,with distinct focus, strenghts, weaknesses and about how they can best compliment THE HOLY UNIVERSAL PROGRESS or god( if you will, in the 1600s christian mystics tended to ponder upon the concept of gods, in a very similiar way to how budhists did seeing it as giant all encompassing process, that is by its nature unfathomable(i like that)) eachother in the society, and where they could be most use. Most important thing is not to let the world forced to our schemas, and make it obey our desires, so we should do less work, to achieve the actuality. (For example when someone being in a relationship with someone, and wants the reality to correspond her schema of dual relationship, and ignores how it doesnt seem likely, but presses on by the blind will for the relationship to work, and be the ideal for her, changing the truth). Such illusions are very typical and some think that, even essential for ones wellbeing, not all have the capacity or will to think very far. Transhumanism (enhanching people through modifying genetics and using bioimplants to tranform the human capacity to another level, the types might still be manifested, but obviously in a different way.

    So keeping ones mind open and accepting how things are likely in actuality, then trying it out and gaining the understanding one would likely be able step by step, to view what decisions, and what one should do. To maximise the possibilities, for good of self and others. This is basicly sciencitifc method. And therefore science is one of the best things that can help us adapt. And i would even claim its essential for gaining good picture of the world, information overall, there are some truly great minds that have been pondering the world for theyr whole life and then written it for the good of others. Philosophy ftw ! Unless, it would be like schizophrenia, mixing your schemas to the world. Distorted view of the reality. Which is even likely collectively, as before in time, people have thought about the world many which in comparison to todays world are relatively stupid things like: the world is flat and so on. But yeah we are developing and gaining understanding. Hopefully as individuals and as collective. Atleast what we should stive for, for thats what out basic atributes drive us to do. The will to live, curiosity etc.. lead to expansion

    So im thinking, what would the next step be, you apparently thought i gave you something beneficial, and i too even more affirmed the ideas, its a test that seems to have been well worth taking. Putting my sense of self to the test, and even gaining affirmation to the bélief, that that there would be like different types of souls, here all with distinct place and way to hande the world, and benefit and shape surrounding in theyr own way. With socionics one could be, sort of helper for people to find theyr place in life, where they would be most beneficial to themselves and others. So socionics is basicly a map (likely undeveloped, and most certainly uncomplete) , which can be used to help people adapt to other people and the world of interrelationships and how they could benefit the world. So those who decide to focus here, will be the ones advancing the human conciousness in that area. Alas its also for self improvement, as one can get the idea of there being a base for your persona and the ways you act in the world, that very much define one, and see what behavior is unnatural and unneeded for the individual could very much give help and health to beings stressed, of the false expectations they have put upon themselves. Maybe saving some people from mental problems too.

    Paulo Frielles quote was very interesting and gave me food for thought, and as individual i remember very much thinking like that, and even rebelling the school system (and in addition i carried a chain on my throat, to express how i was chained onto it) , but now its a theme i dont pay so much attention. Of course theres alot that needs to be done to the schooling system, and allways things could be better, but now i have a more stoic view upon it. I will try to explain, even though it feels particularly today, my thoughts are very muddled and jumbly. So arent we by beings by our very nature that is restricted and put under laws. We are born to system governed by laws, and we adapt to those. Even our bodies are filled with laws that need to be taken care of. We are born to this world by its laws and those laws carry us too all the way in our lives (which might seem somewhat weird to you, as you expressed your doubt towards the concept of predetermination, sort of loose destiny) (if you will). And whereas the subjective processor (our conciousness) by the sense of pleasure and displeasure, the entities most basic sign to what it should get towards and what it should stay away from, basic gift, the arrow which, when combined with the processing power of our minds, we get a vision of what we should do, better and shape our enviroment to better it, and what to avoid. I see it like self correcting procedure, the part of world, comes and inhabits, shapes the world, to what it thinks would better them, might fail or not, but its sense of vision grows, and so every time a generation borns and dies, it has given a new direction what it thinks would better benefit themselves. (SO Slow Universal PRocess of dynamically moving. (Maybe not for specific reason, most likely moving for reasons incomprehendable for us, and we are part of that eternal movement, as the structures way of working itself, we being the parts in it.) Like a big microship, testing itself, and fixing itself. Our purpose. Universe is surely mindblowing dont we think, and people call it boring, when its actually, woow duude have you thought about this, kind of thing, its like being on psychedelics, making the actual psychedelics unnecessary, this is just AWESOME enough. So how this goes back to the point i was making: is that what you perceive as wrongdo here, dont imagine the world to be static, because nothing would be wronger, there hasnt been a single decade that would have been the same. And you are part of that change, moving the structures for what you believe is right, and if you feel that the school system is fucking up. Step up, be the universal force fighting against the idiocy of wrongdoers, shaping the world a little bit towards the paradise it could be, but will be changed again. CHAAANGE Is the defining aspect of our universe, and according to physicists, maybe nothingness too

    Wow. Got a liiiitle carried away .
    But now about the Frielles quote: What i wondered about is that, i dont think people should have given too much freedom. Younglings and expecially teenagers are like borderlines, walking chemical boxes, ready to explode, with good sense of self and self identity being very fragile, unexistant or easily changeable, so for beings like that, who are easy get lost in the thoughts of having no meaning, and being very easily manipulated by outer forces. So i think its important to have structure, rules and laws that make them very much opressed during the periods of madness, for not letting them be able, or atleast make it harder to absolutely freely self express and do as they wish, as i have witnessed alot people are ready to do very unbeneficial things, thigns that they will later regret, things that have impacted the rest of theyr lives in unchangeable negative way. Expecially in youth. I see that they need some order to keep them atleast somewhat on track for theyr own and for everyones benefit. I dont think many of them have the ability to see the consequence of theyr actions in fully and arent good judgers of what should be done. (Doesnt mean it would be like that later on either.) So i definetly think there should be outer restrictors. If they decide to do something in autonomous way and are aware of how it will likely affect themselves and others, then go destroy yourself, thats just about how your unique qualities manfiest here. But very often its not like that. Ignorace is the bane of our existance.

    But now as i studied a little bit about Freire (for the chance, that i missunderstood what he meant, and i did (quotes out of the context are likely to be missunderstood)) . I realized that what he most likely meant in the quote: that "others", was in the quote the system that is and has been , students conforming to it, instead of creating a system that would benefit them and others in actuality. And of course i agree. What a great guy. And thank you for introducing him. Just im much more cynical here, i believe that the change happens (and it does, now and earlier atleast, from the perspective of an individual) in a very slow manner, so basicly working for the betterment is the betterment of others, since our lives are so very short, that the changes come to play for other generations(and not directly to us). But maybe Friere also thinks that though education the changes could become much faster. And yes that is a certainly a thing to get into. The thing is though, that most stresses me personally. Is that there are so many different things that one could focus, in expense of the others, what if i chose the wrong path, our time is very limited here anyway? I could have really had an impact there, but no i wasted it on this shit that never grew to anything. Do you relate? But expecially if your going into education, studying such things would be most advisable, though i wonder how much for example a teacher would be able to change in itself, as they are very much chained to the regulations. Same is everywhere. I have deduced that only way to have true impact is to make an organisation that drives towards the implementation, and get power in the goverment and everywhere. Thats what im striving for personally, also just by doing art or wrigint about it, can be doing ones part for the change.

    Still aslong as you think i am beneficial to you, or others. Im the guy who takes most pleasure in being catalyst of change or developer of ideas. So if i have stumbled upon something on my road, that sounds good to you. Im really flattered. But if its not, i would hate nothing more than being extra weight on your shoulders, so dont feel any obligations towards me, just for the past words.

    Curiously i used to know an enfj in real life, she used to think i was little more introverted, but then again i was somewhat shy in her company, so it might not be good example. But anywy she reminds me the way you write, and in that way also me, though i was blind to it back then, because as i was unhappy with my shyness, i tried to mask it by even acting more introverted, and making myself believe it. To protect myself for the internall discomfort i felt in the situation. Small illusions, well im wiser now.

    whether or not humans are autonomous has been something that I've never really been able to make a decision on. As of right now, I basically say that I don't understand how our brains work enough to say whether or not we are autonomous (I am always curious about learning new things about the human mind, though). I agree that our thoughts are not our own, as in, they do not come from the grey mass of the brain itself. I think that there is some sort of communication with divinity within all people, regardless of whether or not they consciously recognize it. I agree that what we do with these thoughts/images recieved from outside (I like your tv set in the head anology, by the way ), is dependent on our type (I think that's what you meant, right?). One time, a possible infp friend and I had a long conversation about what we thought the 'bigger something' was. I had kind of buried this idea in my head, forgotten about it, but here it is: we thought of the soul as a sort of parasite - it lives within the human body but isn't something that humans just "came with," like how a car comes with tires, but something that basically lives off of humans. I think of these souls inside different human bodies interacting with eachother - for a couple weeks before my friend and I had our conversation, I would imagine the souls "arms" like little octopus tendrals reahing out and touching eachother when people interacted (weird, huh? haha). Our idea ended up being that perhaps, these soul-creature-things needed humans to be civil and tame in order to control them, and so that is why society developed - because savage humans were too difficult for the souls to live in and for them to control - and the souls couldn't interact with eachother without being able to control their human hosts. But, as biological mutations have it, every now and then a "weak" offspring is produced. A soul would latch onto that weak human child, and feed it images and ideas which would help it survive in harsh uncivilized conditions. The soul would help the child be cunning in order to live and reproduce, and create more "weak" human offspring for more souls to live inside. The 'bigger thing' is a future world where souls have complete control over the human body - where all trace of a human's wild, uncivilized natural instinct is eliminated (ie- rape all the ladies and take all the food, or whatever). and wow, I really should learn how to use paragraphs. hopefully the rest of my responses won't be too lengthy, haha
    Speaking about lenghty I'm starting to feel perplexed and desperate on the ammount of stuff i have written here. And seeing whats supposedly left, when in comparison i have written relatively to your text ammounts. The quest i have left, seems massively biblical. Still just writing the genesis of bible, and theres still years of work. Wait for the Noa's flood to dry away. (IM not christian btw. Even though highly religious, but based on my own principles and thoughts. I dont want to be dependent on others organisations, which im not responsible for myself. But i thought it would be somewhat funny to write about the feeling while referring to bible)

    Basicly with the innate atributes i referred to the types, or whatever they are trying to get a grasp of. Well i believe there is something truthfull grasped there. You being part of the proof. What i have read about the brain, they would follow the same rules as the quantum mechanical laws, based on our current understanding.. So basicly we cant have certain knowledge on how the small particles move, as we cant measure both the mass and speed of the particle at the same time, so we cant predict its place, or comfirm if they move (i hope im not raping our scientific understanding here, or that im outdated, but its the way i have understood it.) following a hidden law. So basicly it seems like nature itself hides away the principle on how it works. But based on what i have observed, they certainly do appear to move in a very systematic way, not maybe on individual level, but on the bigger scale all these little parts contributing and moving on the external scale based on those qualities there giving and gettign information and moving towards the something that seems to be so ever elusive. So its part of my believe. And i really like your point of view, that sees it as divine, godly, yes look at the world and see it as its undesciptable MIGHT!1111111111 (When one tries to descripe it ,D) Also its essential for myself and my being to find the meaning. From my existential angst period, which i struggled with long time ago, made me take the leap of faith. Faith in our value, and meaning. And i believe it would be good for others as well.

    That idea of yours is truly mind bending ;D, reminds me the idea of matrix ( THe machines parasiting us), it could make a neat story. And shows the intuitive bend here. But i suspect on its truth value. I dont like to imagine ideas too far out, as we cant really comfirm or uncomfirm them-So as far they are only ideas, ideas that based on the current proof i have no reason to believe upon. But allways there are the possibility that we are collectively misguided, and maybe you with your extraordinary ideas, will find something that will remarkably change the discursions (the current prevailing thoughts in our societies, and paradigmas ( generally accepted thoughtstructures, we are building upon, like quantum physics, the concept of unconcious mind etc. So im nobody to tell you not to trust your beliefs, if thats what you believe. You might be the chosen one ( I didnt suppose you actually had the belief, and saw it more as a play with ideas, which is funny and cool- The souls must have really taken hold of me, since im really into those things. Damn souls!- LETS TEST IT OUT AND CREATE ARMY WITH THE INTENTION OF FUCKING THE SOULS INTENTION. KILL THE PEOPLE. FUCK WITH THE SOULS BWAHAWHAHAW!. OR is that what they really want. OR maybe its the midgets or squirrels.aföl, thats right the squirrels.. But yeah the idea seemed little bit far out. But you people certainly dont lack imagination, and it was entertainning to think about it. (Screaming WTF, while at it)



    I don't have much to say about this part other than it makes sense and I agree . I like the prospect of post-modernism because I believe that study is the key to taking a deeper look into the physical manifestation you speak of, whether or not post-modernists realize this is what they're doing.
    You mean the post modernism sort of being self examination, self study or reflection. Also pumping us to the another level. As arts one distinct purpose( like the many it has) is to show us the meaning and how things are, and what they are causing. Also these ideas move us to new directions- Veery important.



    well, the star analogy was one directed towards people like picasso, or elvis, people who shaped a new style of something more than they did enhance human life. I probably should have mentioned that. the analogy (which is from "picasso at the lapin agile" by steve martin) is about how picasso in particular shaped modern art. But you are right - it makes much more sense for one to have a goal if they are going to become an influential person.
    I have long pondered the meaning of the arts, poetry, paintings and the music. I have some ideas, which im gonna share here-And your more than free to expand and give me ones yourself. If you got some- So as humans go applying theyr unique skills based on theyr information channels and how they go around developing these skills with the physical conversation with the envroment. And where they are focused theyr atributes are morphed to fit closer to they enviroment creating skills and abilities demanded there. So of they might stumble somewhere and through theyr knowledge and ideas they might get a new vision where they want to take the arts or happen to do so i seemingly concidential way, even though its likely that somewhere, or later someone would have taken the iniative to change the direction or create what would have created the new move. They never see to be very concidential in the end. So yeah, with the actual creating there with humans skill to also create and manipulate the enviroment in a very self concious manner, ensures that there will be other areas of development, less crucial for the survival aspect as a certain booster for mood and morale- And the reminder how we are able to prospect better in a stabler societies and development. Also as they are creativity used for the creativity itself. Monuments as a reminder for the potential and the beauty we could achieve. And be the positive likeable aspect in humanity, creating love and affection indirectly toward the human race. Ok here are my humble thoughts. Hope you will caress them kindly and maybe expand..

    "the betterment of ourselves, and collective entity, thats moving as process towards to match better with our world, helping us adapt and being closer and more actualised version of our potential." <-- this sounds much like what I have, in the past, tried to explain to my Se-ego friend who was convinced that there was no meaning in life. what a dummy he was. haha
    I agree that we will constantly evolve (and I plan on thinking more about what you have said here, later on), but I am curious as to what you mean exactly, when you say that we might give birth to a new entity.
    I wonder if you managed to get something through to the se-mind. If thats how dual relations work actually, exchanging information that is considered usefull, and gaining insights together ? In my own experience, mostly hanging out with delta quandra (though with some huge complications), its been like the great ´Herman Hesse said: " Wisdom is something that cant be communicated or teached to others, it just shows up in the actions of an individual", which seems to ring true to me, its been like banging your head against the wall- Only getting more frustrated with people, until i understood to give up there, help those who were willing for it. Also not really connected to this, but another great Hesse quote is, that im sure people studying socionics can apreciate, its something like this: everything that annoys us about other people, is something that is also in ourselves, for that which isnt of ourselves, doesnt annoy us" Great thought !

    About the machine singularity for example, it would take the form of concious we had created for the machine, that would start evolving exponentially, maybe brushing us aside, or using us to feed itself (similiarly to how we are doing to animals) , while its moving with understanding over us towards its unfathomable goals, created an entity that is moving in a far visceral level, and to the beat of the world. Oh cant you feel the beat? DANCE !! DANCE-- So what i mean that it has amassed the knowledge of us and adopts it faster and faster and creates and fixes its self on a much faster rate than the pure humans ever could that we cant count the volume of its ingeniosity towards us. So it would be singularity of a conciousness. hope i managed to make it clearer. It could be seen as a purpose of humanity. Giving life to the next step in the process. Maybe dying and beginning again.

    If there is one thing I believe about western culture it is that it is very lonely. communication between people seems to be going steadily downhill as silence and prejudices and jealousy between people become commonplace. some new techologies (like the internet and cellphones and all that) have made it easier for people to keep in touch with eachother, but real life communication is deteriorating. I don't want to go too off topic though. anyways, I agree with you(again, lol), and I am starting to wonder if maybe I am just too amiable for agreeing with all of this. I just re-read that above section, looking for SOMETHING to disagree with, but then I realized that that would be pointless and dumb. haha.
    Totally agreed, hmm now that i remembered that enfj friend i mentioned, it was actually weird, when i stated something i believed, and she was like:"i agree", when i was totally expecting a debate and battle to comfirm the beliefs, and then it was just like "ok, well lets jsut keep on doing what we were doing. Weird i didnt notice that back then..We just understood and agreed . This too totally like it, when people dont experience the real life, they hold on to those schemas and pictures they have without ever testing them out. Just staying inside, and letting thsoe ideas grow to totally insanic views that arent challenged by reality, which is like people friendly schizophrenia. But yeah agreed. Its important to keep in touch with people. This is great for selfaffirmation .

    yes, and I feel like, in many ways, the existence of these positive qualities for future generations is threatened, but maybe that's just my perception. If it is, though, a good cause in life would be to keep the affection and connection that people love so much alive, so that future generations are not empty of it. As for the part about stability, I don't understand what you mean (i haven't studied very much philosophy, it isn't offered at my high school. ) do humans disturb an ecological stability, or a mental one, or maybe some other kind?
    About the first part. I feel the same way. The distortion from christiniaty, the outdateness of its methods are making people run off without a good sense of meaning, and are very much prone towards destructive closeminded ideas. And there totally needs to be thoughtdirections taken place, that give people comfort and reason and understanding for the ethical qualities. Something i have struggled with sometime, and i feel like im on the right track. That totally rung true to me. AND Go for it girl ! This is like the enfj sense of meaning to the world. Be the signholder to people, not forget about the important qualities in our world and lives- The sense of agreement is getting mythical proportions here.

    So what i meant with the stability (or zizek did) was that the giant emptyness is beautifull and perfect, but something bad happened and this evil ugly distortion that is called life has come to being, and is slowly moving towards its self destruction, or it tries to figh it out, but as long as it does, its only evil and disturbing the harmony its more abstract than what you proposed, its similiar to how you descriped the souls inhabitating us for theyr own selfish purposes. And i taked the view that its what i know and what i serve so im with the ugly impulse im with the souls fighting for my masters :grr: or for the disharmony of the world. Because im not the world, but im the human part of it. The corrosive anguish (possiblity) Hope i managed to make the idea clearer now.


    although my first instinct is that it would be ideal for the world to be under one nation, I wonder if that would actually be ideal, for there is the problem of quadra dominance. say, the governing people of this one nation were all Betas, then that would make life basically suck for deltas (theoretically, anyways). as for resources, it would seem that eventually, new machines will be invented that will lower the amount of resources necessary for people to survive, and then eliminate a need to fight over them. for example, if a working and distributable solar-powered car is ever sucessfully invented, that would sharply lower the amount of oil nations would have to fight over. all of this last part of what you wrote is definitely something I will have to think about and turn over in my head, before I could possibly write any legitimate opinion about it.
    Good that you taked that in account. Im glad to be able to elaborate. So basicly couldnt we have like a council, which would represent and ensure that all needs would be taken care of. But the important principle would be to better us as a collective and not one part of it. That would be the important thing. It seems to be that the individual interestes are the top priority now. And i even heard predictions that such things that solar cars and other important technological steps would have most likely been allready done with if it wasnt for the different companies protecting theyr self interest and getting patents that makes it impossible for other organisations, to work out the step. Which basicly blocks the development. And i doubt that the rescources will be ever infinite or ever or ever, but until it seems probable that it would be so, i think its important to make it hard for different parts of humanity fighting for the blindness of self interest over the others, which is the biggest motivator towards conflict. I believe that we would most benefit by having the interest of serving us as a whole, and giving the products to general use. Would be the best. But its really good that you challenged this, and i might have really undeveloped views here. Its really fantastic to have a true dialogue in this manner. Please continue if you do have something to share , and shows where i have more to develop. Seems like i would have to consult some experts here. Thaank you, kind individual.

    I hope that my responses have been adequite, and not too blurry or underdeveloped, like I said. all of what you have written has definitely been positive and useful for me. it has offered new outlooks which I hope to reflect upon and expand the next time I am getting lost in thought, or out and about in a social situation, ect.
    You stole my words again .

    yes, I had always been hopeful that when reading the "type me" threads, i would find one like this! (I had my own a while ago, but I didn't trust the results... silly me) and i TRY not to get too obsessed with this stuff... hopefully once I know my type for sure and I understand how to type other people better, I can focus more on using it in "real life." this has been a fascinating discovery/conversation so far, and I am glad that you have taken my posts seriously, dispite the slowpoke avatar. lol
    yes, I had always been hopeful that when reading the "type me" threads, i would find one like this! (I had my own a while ago, but I didn't trust the results... silly me) and i TRY not to get too obsessed with this stuff... hopefully once I know my type for sure and I understand how to type other people better, I can focus more on using it in "real life." this has been a fascinating discovery/conversation so far, and I am glad that you have taken my posts seriously, dispite the slowpoke avatar. lol <- answer.

    Also this truly was some work. Spent FEW hours writing this thing, got somewhat exhausted in the end. But here i am doing the stuff i have claimed to be important to me. Putting the boots of a mentor on me and trying to benefit others. Dialogue like this exchanging information one views is one of the most developing and favorite ways to gain insight, by comparing views and gaining understanding. I thank you for the oportunity. And see you as smart and capable and wish you well to your quest


    Unfortunately I'm not allowed to give you more than hints at the present time.

    My own type being challenged by some members of this forum, I'll refrain posting about others own type until it's settled. I feel it's fairer this way.

    Veterans should chime in, please be patient.


    I see. I wanna thank you for your efforts. They were and are very much apreciated.

    Still waiting..

    Also i struggled with the thought of taking vi picturs of myself. Im not shamed about what i have written- But its still a scary and possibly stupid step, as im not convinced at all about the effectiveness of the method, but its interesting anyway. Also i there was some bug here, tthat quoted whole alot of mess i didnt intend to, so if there are any problems in comprehension. They are due to my failed way of deleting it. So if theres anything that needs cleared up. I wil do my part. im just too exhausted doing it now.
    Last edited by NewBorn STAR; 11-26-2010 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Stupid quotes

  30. #30
    Inception Mastermind KeroZen's Avatar
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    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


    -----
    Know your body, know your mind, know your limits.

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    Fuck-up NewBorn STAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeroZen View Post
    Yes its got size. Is it totally relevant for typing ? No its not. IS IT TOTALLY AWESOME. YEEeeees It IS 1!!!!!

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuffinPouredFullofshit View Post
    What a clever way to disguise your failures. The inaunthenticity of your message is obvious (most likely intented so, but im not sure if you thought it to end) As ironically using the excuse of being polite to me masking the unpoliteness, stating the unpolite thing. Indirectly which destroys the intention, which makes somekind of ironic paradox, that i like in away. But i have noted a tendency for you to be the guy who comes to thread and shouts the improbable answer. Maybe your doing it unintentionally, and this destructive message is a projection of frustration. Do you understand it or not.
    I'm not a guy and I never will be.

    I admit to not being very good at typing online, which is why I don't frequent typing request threads.

    My comment was not inauthentic. I do not view being Beta as a good thing, and I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. In case you were Gamma, I wanted to be polite. Now that I know you're a Beta, I can be totally blunt with you and it won't have any effect.

    It really irks me when people think I lie just because they speak an unprecise dialect. "I have homework to do" means "I have homework to do," not "I am going to do homework."

    You should have ended your comment with a question mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Hmm, definitely extroverted and dynamic (so much activity!). I would say LIE over EIE, though. All the stuff about benefit, work, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rps3y View Post
    Booooooooooooo!

    My initial impression was "another crabby gay IEI with unwarrantedly high self-entitlement".
    I tentatively agree. Just the way he/she writes is making my head spin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    You should have ended your comment with a question mark.
    lol way to go E1 passive-aggressiveness.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Holy sh*t! Just let "them" monologue and "they" will find their type on their own!

    I can assure you all that the headspin effect is not quadra related!
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


    -----
    Know your body, know your mind, know your limits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton2 View Post
    How does anyone even bring themselves to read these walls of text? My eyes just glaze over and I close the tab at the thought of it.
    So, I am not alone in thinking this.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

  37. #37
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    EIE-Fe.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  38. #38
    Inception Mastermind KeroZen's Avatar
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    Ha! Good occasion to compare with your type then!
    "Everyone carries a shadow, and the less it is embodied in the individual’s conscious life, the blacker and denser it is.
    At all counts, it forms an unconscious snag, thwarting our most well-meant intentions."

    C. G. Jung


    -----
    Know your body, know your mind, know your limits.

  39. #39
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Also, not 8w7. You're definitely an image type. Not altogether sure which, but my gut says 4w3 so/sx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I think he has , but it would be rude to call someone Beta.
    On the contrary, it is a high praise and honor! We Betas rule the world, and we do it in style.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  40. #40
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeroZen View Post
    Ha! Good occasion to compare with your type then!
    He (she?) has a different style of theatrics than mine (I'm partial to outright trolling), is more outspoken, likely less intellectual, definitely needs to learn how to use Ti. I think he's a pure EIE-EIE exemplar (I'm EIE-LII).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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