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Thread: Enneagram and Personality Disorders

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    Default Enneagram and Personality Disorders

    From Enneagram institute:

    1 - Obsessive Compulsive / Depressive
    2 - Histrionic / Factitious
    3 - Narcissistic
    4 - Avoidant / Depressive / Narcissistic
    5 - Schizoid / Avoidant / Schizotypal
    6 - Passive Aggressive / Paranoid
    7 - Bipolar / Histrionic
    8 - Antisocial
    9 - Schizoid / Dependent


    Can you relate?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Bizarre as it sounds, I identify with avoidant, narcissistic AND histrionic (depressive as well).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Dance Magic Dance CloudCuckooLander's Avatar
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    I am bipolar, and identify with narcissistic, schizotypal, and avoidant. I identify with depressive on my bipolar "downs."
    2-subtype system: IEI-Fe
    8-subtype system: D-IEI-Fe
    16-subtype system: IEI-ESE

    IEI-Fe 2w3 > p6w5 > 8w7 sx/so

    "He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of living." - Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas père)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    From Enneagram institute:

    1 - Obsessive Compulsive / Depressive
    2 - Histrionic / Factitious
    3 - Narcissistic
    4 - Avoidant / Depressive / Narcissistic
    5 - Schizoid / Avoidant / Schizotypal
    6 - Passive Aggressive / Paranoid
    7 - Bipolar / Histrionic
    8 - Antisocial
    9 - Schizoid / Dependent


    Can you relate?
    Technically, passive aggressive and depressive aren't personality disorders and are still being researched to decide if they are valid diagnoses. Also, bipolar and factitious aren't personality disorders.

    I can see obsessive compulsive or depressive for ones. I don't know if I would pin antisocial on any type. I think narcissistic might work better for 8.

    On a side note I was looking at the faculty of a program I am interested in and one of the members interests is enneagram and temperament. For some reason I find this strange... the thought that someone takes seriously what I don't lol.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
    http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0

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    ya, those are a couple of disorders i've seriously considered the possibility i might have

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardia View Post
    I think narcissistic might work better for 8.
    Actually, 8s aren't supposed to be narcissistic. I guess they could be, but the 8-fixation has nothing to do with them as a person. 8s are usually not very self-aware, and they have no need for self-aggrandizement because they have little to no self-doubt.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Actually, 8s aren't supposed to be narcissistic. I guess they could be, but the 8-fixation has nothing to do with them as a person. 8s are usually not very self-aware, and they have no need for self-aggrandizement because they have little to no self-doubt.
    Exactly. 8s are wholly unconcerned with image, their fixation being on control.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Creepy-male

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    Yeah, Schizoid. I remember reading a book about what sorts of screwed-up childhoods produce what personality disorders, and the Schizoid chapter hit way too close to home. As far as aligning my personality with a personality disorder, SPD is probably the neatest fit.

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    Avoidant 5w4 agrees.

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    8 is SOCIOPATHIC, it´s a personality disorder. 1s OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE/DEPRESSIVE, I am a 1 and relate to being depressive and OCD, I have these two conditions. There is a condition called Depressive Personality Disorder in DSM-IV, you can see it here, but it is different from a Major Depressive Episode.

    Personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    4 tends to Borderline Personality Disorder and Depression.

    5 is Schizoid (too isolated).

    6 Paranoid

    7 Histrionic

    3 Narcissistic

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    9w8-5w6-3w4

    If these are considered mild and not enough for actual personality disorder diagnoses, then

    1.(secret-shizoid)/antisocial
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||
    2.schizotypal/paranoid
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||
    3.narcissistic/depressive

    That's pretty interesting to look at it that way. But what about the positives? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post
    9w8-5w6-3w4

    If these are considered mild and not enough for actual personality disorder diagnoses, then

    1.(secret-shizoid)/antisocial
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||
    2.schizotypal/paranoid
    |||||||||||||||||||||||||
    3.narcissistic/depressive

    That's pretty interesting to look at it that way. But what about the positives? LOL
    The positive side of the etype is being able to escape it. lol
    not really, but kinda.

    p.s. is that really your tritpe?
    <-- 3w4-5w6-9w8
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    The positive side of the etype is being able to escape it. lol
    not really, but kinda.

    p.s. is that really your tritpe?
    <-- 3w4-5w6-9w8
    Yeah. That's uncanny. We're enneagram mirrors.

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    I identify most with schizoid, avoidant, depressive, and obsessive-compulsive in that order. Hence enneagram 5, then 1.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Shit.

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    Creepy-male

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    8s and 6s both have the inherent capacity to describe any individual with a background of childhood trauma.

    Additionally, Fours very specifically describe due to an emotionally invalidating childhood environment.

    Funnily enough that puts the entire reactive triad as highly eligible for describing any individual with a borderline personality style, whether it is to disorder levels or not.

    As an additional comment I don't think you can fairly map genuine personality disorders to enneagram. I can relate with a lot of 6, 8, and 4 for various reasons relating to my emotionally absent parents and quantitatively absent social network growing up, but I think I'm still fairly patently evidently a Nine in how I deal with everything that doesn't trigger a freaky flare-up of borderline bullshit.

    EDIT

    I also kind of question the usefulness of "levels of health". Part of my problem is it's hard to tell where all the maladaptive behaviours and emotional dysregulation from growing up end, and the enneagram begins. I'm coming up out of my booze now so I can't really think too deeply, but this is a thing that logically itches at me a bit to resolve, so I will likely come back to it.

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    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Can you relate?
    Yeah, basically (5 here). I am somewhat avoidant and actually have borderline OCD tendencies. LIIs often seem to be 1s.

    ILI 5s might relate more to schizotypal and schizoid.

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    I'd add anxious to type 1, histrionic to type 4, masochistic to type 2 and sadistic to type 8 otherwise seems to be spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Egbert Human View Post
    8s and 6s both have the inherent capacity to describe any individual with a background of childhood trauma.

    Additionally, Fours very specifically describe due to an emotionally invalidating childhood environment.
    This article http://pstypes.blogspot.com/search/label/Enneagram describes type 4s resulting from having active (willful, assertive) child in care of neutral (ambivalent, indifferent) parent and type 8s resulting from having an active child in care of active parent.

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    Creepy-male

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    That article also describes basically healthy relationships. I'm talking about abusive and neglectful relationships.

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    I thnk I would fall under category one, obsessive compulsive/depressive.

    There was a time when I would be compelled to do just about everything four times over and over. As I got into my later teens, I got over it. (For the most part.)

    Now I only have the very occasional relapse, usally when I'm feeling depressed.

    I have been known to be slightly avoidant at times as well.
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

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    The Bhagavad Gita

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    Paranoid + avoidant. Two great tastes that taste great together.

    re: siuntal's article
    As interesting as that theory may be, neither of my parents are responsive types (9w1 mother, 8w9 father) and yet I am E6 and my brother is either E5 or E6, both types requiring a responsive parent according to that theory. So already from a practical standpoint I'm not seeing it in action.
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