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Thread: Strength vs Weakness

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    Default Strength vs. Weakness

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    Strong persons always stay true to their principles. If they have given a promise, they won't break just because the situation changed. It's also a part of 'strenght' to stand up for yourself and the ones you love. They do not exploit their power if they are the person in charge. (Macchiavelli: 'Give power to a man and you'll see his true nature' - I don't know the exact wording) Being honest and dependable is also a sign of strenght imho. I'm mostly referring to strenght of character. Well, weakness is mostly the opposite from what I said above. I'm trying to be as 'strong' as possible.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Strong persons always stay true to their principles. If they have given a promise, they won't break just because the situation changed. It's also a part of 'strenght' to stand up for yourself and the ones you love. They do not exploit their power if they are the person in charge. (Macchiavelli: 'Give power to a man and you'll see his true nature' - I don't know the exact wording) Being honest and dependable is also a sign of strenght imho. I'm mostly referring to strenght of character. Well, weakness is mostly the opposite from what I said above. I'm trying to be as 'strong' as possible.
    What he said. Character and principles is all that matter. Integrity, honesty, faithfulness and courage to do what you know is right despite fear, influence, or personal desires.

    I'm a mixture of strength and weakness. I have strength of action and conviction, but that pushing towards action makes me weak in other areas. It overrides thoughtfulness and prudence. My other weaknesses are likewise overcome by my strengths.

    I respect most a person who acts with compassion and patience, and does not force his own desires at the expense of others. That's someone who I can trust. An undependable person, who gives way easily, or is only self-serving, will end up costing you way more than he's worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Strong persons always stay true to their principles. If they have given a promise, they won't break just because the situation changed. It's also a part of 'strenght' to stand up for yourself and the ones you love. They do not exploit their power if they are the person in charge. (Macchiavelli: 'Give power to a man and you'll see his true nature' - I don't know the exact wording) Being honest and dependable is also a sign of strenght imho. I'm mostly referring to strenght of character. Well, weakness is mostly the opposite from what I said above. I'm trying to be as 'strong' as possible.
    Amen.
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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I think strength is pretty pure. It's simply being aware of your physical surroundings and not so much the thoughts in your head. It's developing a physical presence, and feeling connected to physical reality. You just stay aware to how things really are, not to how you want them to be. Although you can still sort of be aware of how you'd like things to be, you mostly are just 'awakened' psychologically, and your attention is more focused to outside objects.

    I define strength as an awareness of reality over fantasy. Not rationality or practicality (which are mental concepts), but RAW PHYSICAL OBJECTIVE STRAIGHT MAN REALITY.

    And weakness is just a lack of that/absence of that. Because it's the tangible, real physical stuff that can hurt you for real in the world. Not mental chatter and ideals. That only influences.

    Being moral or having strong convictions, or being principaled, all that is nice but has nothing to do with real power imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I think strength is pretty pure. It's simply being aware of your physical surroundings and not so much the thoughts in your head. It's developing a physical presence, and feeling connected to physical reality. You just stay aware to how things really are, not to how you want them to be. Although you can still sort of be aware of how you'd like things to be, you mostly are just 'awakened' psychologically, and your attention is more focused to outside objects.

    I define strength as an awareness of reality over fantasy. Not rationality or practicality (which are mental concepts), but RAW PHYSICAL OBJECTIVE STRAIGHT MAN REALITY.

    And weakness is just a lack of that/absence of that. Because it's the tangible, real physical stuff that can hurt you for real in the world. Not mental chatter and ideals. That only influences.

    Being moral or having strong convictions, or being principaled, all that is nice but has nothing to do with real power imo.

    *shrug* That's easy though. And common. And every animal does that naturally. Man is more than animal though, and only man has a moral and spiritual side. Only man is concerned with strength of character. A horse or cow is aware only of objective reality, without fantasy. Sure, there is beauty there, and physical strength, but it's without direction and meaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I think strength is pretty pure. It's simply being aware of your physical surroundings and not so much the thoughts in your head. It's developing a physical presence, and feeling connected to physical reality. You just stay aware to how things really are, not to how you want them to be. Although you can still sort of be aware of how you'd like things to be, you mostly are just 'awakened' psychologically, and your attention is more focused to outside objects.

    I define strength as an awareness of reality over fantasy. Not rationality or practicality (which are mental concepts), but RAW PHYSICAL OBJECTIVE STRAIGHT MAN REALITY.

    And weakness is just a lack of that/absence of that. Because it's the tangible, real physical stuff that can hurt you for real in the world. Not mental chatter and ideals. That only influences.

    Being moral or having strong convictions, or being principaled, all that is nice but has nothing to do with real power imo.
    Sounds like you're equating strength with the function of Se in the leading position, probably without any other functions attached to it.

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    Good topic for a thread.

    To me, personal strength is about knowing my weaknesses and owning up to them rather than denying their existence and layering false and brittle strengths atop them.

    I guess that comes down to the dictum "Man, know thyself."

    I consider myself neither weak nor strong. I'd say I'm externally fluid and internally consistent, and that like anyone, I have strong and weak points.

    As for others, I've said a few times that I can tolerate almost any weirdness or flaw in other people so long as they have some awareness of those weak points. Where we remain blind, we tend to do harm. I notice quickly where someone's life "as lived" diverges from the values he/she espouses, and the greater the discrepancy, the greater the potential hypocrisy, the greater the illogic, the more I find I cannot connect with the person.

    Conversely, if people know their weaknesses, I can connect with them more and more. People need to be loved for who they are, and most of all they need to know that they are loved despite (sometimes even for) their flaws and weaknesses. If they accept those things in themselves, they have laid a foundation for me to understand them and therefore love them.

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    I'm glad that many people agree with my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    I've had my setbacks and visits to hell, but I've never compromised my self-respect, and without respecting myself and the way I work, through being fair and by doing the "right thing", there is no way I could have kept my strength up to do all the things I do and bounce back. I truly love showing strength in that sense and see that I gain respect from people I respect. And I respect hard work. Doers. Diddlers can go fuck themselves, and I don't respect them, no matter what position they have managed to talk themselves into, so I don't care if they respect me back or not.
    That's a good attitude.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Guilt, empathy, and conscience are all weaknesses. It causes humans to be sympathetic and sympathy saps their will to be assertive or hit back...All the more better for me. People who won't stand up for themselves are gutless.

    Strength is willpower and being able to get and take what one wants. As well as the freedom to tell people to go fuck themselves and not be coopted.
    Last edited by tire iron; 12-29-2010 at 07:47 AM.

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    strength is the capacity to willingly endure pain (physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, whatever) in order to achieve one's goals. It is accepting difficulty in order to get good things.

    weakness is limiting yourself in any way in order to make things easier for you. It is rejecting difficulty in order to remain comfortable.

    I think I'm a fairly strong person. I could be stronger, but I've worked really hard to maintain what is important to me, so I consider myself a fairly strong person. I think that I would fight extremely hard to protect the things I love.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    I'm a strong-minded person but not strong willed so I think more than act.
    I have a strong spirit but a weak heart so I'm perceptive but somewhat aloof.
    In reality I can strive and quickly respond to any given situation requiring practicality but as for romance or socilizing I often am unware as to what I want or how to achieve what I want. My own personal goals sometimes create a rift with my significant other or within a group which can cause much stress. Objectively I'm strong and can lead a situation but subjectively I have many short comings and would be more comfortable following.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    weakness is limiting yourself in any way in order to make things easier for you. It is rejecting difficulty in order to remain comfortable.
    What if a very talented person preferred a modest, simple life because they would live much happier? Is this person weak because they don't make use of their full potential even though it would lead to a successful, but unpleasant life?
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Strength is classified according to its purpose. There are people who are inwardly weak, who attempt to make others around them weak so that they can be strong. Then there are those who have strength inside them no matter what, who feel challenged whenever someone tries to intimidate them. Guess who wins?

    Ultimately, the inwardly strong must prevail by persuading the people who will be intimidated, not to be intimidated. Friendship, and all that. You usually don't see it in everyday life, only in situations where there is unlimited power potential.

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    Real strength has to do with one's hate for society. It's pure visceral hate for any restriction on one's freedom. If one doesn't have this hate for society, by definition they are one of the sheep (and hence weak).

    I often think of school bullies as strong. (I recently read an article linking bullying with high self-esteem). I agree. For the bully enters a dangerous association with the social order, and bullies not just the victim but the entire school, the faculty, the rules, the other kids, the teachers, the parents, and really dares the unexpected. Where the person who takes on the bully knows they can do so without any backlash from society. The latter's willingness to only act on violent impulses when it's safe ultimately makes them one of the herd. It's the same with criminals and cops. Robbing banks or killing good guys requires more strength than stopping bank robbers or killing bad guys. The bank robber doesn't just point a gun in someone's face, but they point a gun at all of society, where the 'heroes' are just one of the sheep.

    If it wasn't for doing music on the side, I probably would've killed and raped a bunch of people by now. I hate everyone and assume they're jerkoffs until proven otherwise.

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    Guilt, empathy, and conscience are all weaknesses. It causes humans to be sympathetic and sympathy saps their will to be assertive or hit back...All the more better for me. People who won't stand up for themselves are gutless.
    Eye for an eye makes us all blind, bro.

    Well, people deserve an ass kicking sometimes I guess.

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    There are people who are inwardly weak, who attempt to make others around them weak so that they can be strong. Then there are those who have strength inside them no matter what, who feel challenged whenever someone tries to intimidate them. Guess who wins?

    Ultimately, the inwardly strong must prevail by persuading the people who will be intimidated, not to be intimidated. Friendship, and all that. You usually don't see it in everyday life, only in situations where there is unlimited power potential.
    Yeah! Go women! Go fags! Go sensitive straight guys! We will together defeat the Evil Queen Beryl of Sociopathy.

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    I often think of school bullies as strong. (I recently read an article linking bullying with high self-esteem). I agree. For the bully enters a dangerous association with the social order, and bullies not just the victim but the entire school, the faculty, the rules, the other kids, the teachers, the parents, and really dares the unexpected. Where the person who takes on the bully knows they can do so without any backlash from society. The latter's willingness to only act on violent impulses when it's safe ultimately makes them one of the herd. It's the same with criminals and cops. Robbing banks or killing good guys requires more strength than stopping bank robbers or killing bad guys. The bank robber doesn't just point a gun in someone's face, but they point a gun at all of society, where the 'heroes' are just one of the sheep.
    lol you need help...

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    your right about bullies having an edge and they do have high self-esteem. In my experience I get bullied but its usually because the bully is intimidated by my good looks say - in other words their envious. With a bully usually one of us has an inferiority complex or I definitely have one after being bullied for awhile then I return to normal unlike the bully. Sometimes a bully picks a victim to reconnect with their own vulnerabilities. They can not connect with themselves likely due to their higher self-esteem. They make someone afraid or sad or angry due to their inability to feel these emotions. More often than not bullies have co-dependency issues. In the dark knight the joker describes his relationship with batman in terms of dependency when he is entangled and suspended in the air. It is near the end of the movie. The sopranos and analyze that clearly demonstrate the psychology of a criminal - they have deep seeded issues. As art imitates real life so is psychology apart of the rehabituation process in turning them from criminals into citizens.

    as for criminals and heroes well that depends upon if your self-serving or in service to others.

    Heroes need psychology too due to expose to violence. They need to learn how to cope with the exposure to violence like dealing with PTS.

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    I major aspect of personal strength is how you react to challenges to your personal values. Demurrance is a sign of weakness, while accepting the challenge is a sign of strength. ENFJs in particular take this aspect of themselves very seriously.

    However, accepting every challenge is foolhardy: strength, when improperly relied upon, can manifest as weakness. For an individual to respect their limits without selling themselves short is a sign of maturity, and only comes with experience.

    Seems like in fiction, when two strong people become a couple they tend to end up dying, because they try to take on something bigger than either of them can survive confronting. On the other hand, when the protagonist fights for someone weaker than themselves, they generally end up trying to save that person. Saving someone from a monster is much easier than tracking it to the ends of the earth to kill it, if only because the monster is less likely to try to take you down with them if they have something they want to defend, and something to live for.

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    Strong means competence. Competence being independence and the ability (and perpetual use of that ability) to learn new things (on your own) in order to function independently. Reliance on others to do any new learning or thinking for you means incompetence, weakness and a drain on the resources of everyone around you. A parasite exemplifies weakness.

    I really do wonder how that relates to the functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    lol you need help...
    Or is it you that is wrong, and as such do you need help? If so, what kind of help, and from who? If you're wrong and the majority of people in a position to offer you help are afflicted with the mental problem your trying to solve, are you on your own in solving your problem? I think the world may never know.

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    (I think Skeptic is discordant, therefore weak)

    Spiro's argument is sociopathic. Not saying he is, just that the argument is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Strong persons always stay true to their principles. If they have given a promise, they won't break just because the situation changed. It's also a part of 'strenght' to stand up for yourself and the ones you love. They do not exploit their power if they are the person in charge. (Macchiavelli: 'Give power to a man and you'll see his true nature' - I don't know the exact wording) Being honest and dependable is also a sign of strenght imho. I'm mostly referring to strenght of character. Well, weakness is mostly the opposite from what I said above. I'm trying to be as 'strong' as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Strength is classified according to its purpose. There are people who are inwardly weak, who attempt to make others around them weak so that they can be strong. Then there are those who have strength inside them no matter what, who feel challenged whenever someone tries to intimidate them. Guess who wins?

    Ultimately, the inwardly strong must prevail by persuading the people who will be intimidated, not to be intimidated. Friendship, and all that. You usually don't see it in everyday life, only in situations where there is unlimited power potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    (I think Skeptic is discordant, therefore weak)

    Spiro's argument is sociopathic. Not saying he is, just that the argument is.

    I think these are the wisest posts in this thread. [/thread]

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    I think these are the wisest posts in this thread. [/thread]
    So you resurrect a thread in order to end it? How ironic.

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    As far as I can tell, strength for Americans means not being participant in the Tea Party. That is a movement that denies personal weakness if there ever was one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Begoner View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    I think these are the wisest posts in this thread. [/thread]
    So you resurrect a thread in order to end it? How ironic.
    Haha well, does it matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Strong persons always stay true to their principles. If they have given a promise, they won't break just because the situation changed. It's also a part of 'strenght' to stand up for yourself and the ones you love. They do not exploit their power if they are the person in charge. (Macchiavelli: 'Give power to a man and you'll see his true nature' - I don't know the exact wording) Being honest and dependable is also a sign of strenght imho. I'm mostly referring to strenght of character. Well, weakness is mostly the opposite from what I said above. I'm trying to be as 'strong' as possible.
    This sounds good and honorable. But I disagree. Strength is not connected to morality. Strength is about choosing the more difficult option: If breaking your principles is more difficult than following them, then strength is breaking your principles. etc. etc.

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    I agree with most of what you've written, but like to just expand a bit on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    Strength is about choosing the more difficult option:
    I think strength is about choosing the more difficult option if it's the right thing to do. The easy way is usually the quickest and often times the more lucrative at the moment, but it may be damaging in the long run and it's something a weak person would choose every time. Going a more difficult route may seem arduous and pointless at the moment, but if it'll result in an outcome that's better, then choosing that is true strength in my opinion. Also, choosing the more difficult option for no other reason than because it's difficult isn't strength, that's masochism.

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    I see strength for myself as being open with oneself about one's feelings, reasons, motivations, thoughts, intentions etc. and in touch with oneself about one's needs and wants (to the extent that they are known) and able to be assertive about these things. It also involves being accepting of oneself and one's faults and the shame one may feel over perceived faults. I probably also would associate it with confronting fear. I see it as falling into a secure balance with oneself, no longer mired by ideas that there's something wrong with me. Mainly I would equate increased psychological health with strength (any attributes of strength that are held as ideals often just arise by themselves when one is "strong" inside and so such things needn't be worried about).

    As for others, I usually see people as strong in their own different ways. I don't feel like trying to go into the strengths I admire in others.

    I would probably say that I feel I'm more weak than strong because I don't seem to really live my life and often avoid situations that I fear (sometimes I avoid things I want due to fear) and I also think that I'm bad at being assertive about my needs and wants although I know that also it's because I often don't even know what I need or want. Also wasting one's life leads to weakness later, a whole bundle of it waiting up ahead. (But I think I'm starting to get better.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    I agree with most of what you've written, but like to just expand a bit on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    Strength is about choosing the more difficult option:
    I think strength is about choosing the more difficult option if it's the right thing to do. The easy way is usually the quickest and often times the more lucrative at the moment, but it may be damaging in the long run and it's something a weak person would choose every time. Going a more difficult route may seem arduous and pointless at the moment, but if it'll result in an outcome that's better, then choosing that is true strength in my opinion. Also, choosing the more difficult option for no other reason than because it's difficult isn't strength, that's masochism.
    People like to think that they are strong because they did something good. But in reality they just did it because it was easy (and good). It's not true that the easiest way is the more lucrative. For example, I sometimes let people manipulate me because it's the easiest way. Being more persistent would put me in a better position but it would require strength that I don't have. So I don't do it and I remain in a weaker position. But that's just me, for some other person it would require strength to be weak. It is type related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowisthetime View Post
    People like to think that they are strong because they did something good. But in reality they just did it because it was easy (and good). It's not true that the easiest way is the more lucrative.
    Yeah, I think you're right.

    For example, I sometimes let people manipulate me because it's the easiest way. Being more persistent would put me in a better position but it would require strength that I don't have. So I don't do it and I remain in a weaker position. But that's just me, for some other person it would require strength to be weak. It is type related.
    Why do you let others manipulate you? Do you really think that's type related? Because that sounds really negative characteristic for a type to have.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Strong persons always stay true to their principles. If they have given a promise, they won't break just because the situation changed. It's also a part of 'strenght' to stand up for yourself and the ones you love. They do not exploit their power if they are the person in charge. (Macchiavelli: 'Give power to a man and you'll see his true nature' - I don't know the exact wording) Being honest and dependable is also a sign of strenght imho. I'm mostly referring to strenght of character. Well, weakness is mostly the opposite from what I said above. I'm trying to be as 'strong' as possible.
    This is precisely what strength is. However, I don't believe that strength should always be painted in such a positive light. Some people are strong and steadfast in their principles, yet these same people might be horrible, awful fucking people, with fucked up, twisted, abhorrent principles.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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