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Thread: ESFj seeking advice from INTjs =)

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    Default ESFj seeking advice from INTjs =)

    So I have a question. . . I am an ESFJ young woman who has had a friendship with an INTJ for several years - around three years ago it developed into a crush and then around 6 months ago I realized that I had completely fallen for him.

    The problem is both of us are conservative and don't believe that two people should date until we are ready to think seriously about marriage.

    I "know" that INTJ's have a hard time initiating if they don't know that the other person is interested - but because we have been friends for so long - and because we are conservative I don't know how to share with him that I'm interested in more then a friendship without coming across in a less then desirable manner.

    Could any of you INTJ's please fill me in as to how it would be best for me to tell him?
    Last edited by yellow82; 11-08-2010 at 03:32 AM.

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    Could any of you INTJ's please fill me in as to how it would be best for me to tell him?
    By saying to him "I'm interested in more then a friendship with you".
    I'm being dead serious.

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    Thanks for sharing. =)

    By the way; do you think that I should wait until he thinks it's "the right time" because of the fact that he is so idealistic in the way he views the world, or do you think that I should tell him now?

    Also - in what ways can ESFJ's make INTJ's feel most loved without "smothering" them? What actions can we do that would please them most?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82
    By the way; do you think that I should wait until he thinks it's "the right time" because of the fact that he is so idealistic in the way he views the world, or do you think that I should tell him now?
    Very much now.

    I like to talk a lot of "right times" too, but they kinda don't exist.

    And, FWIW, I'd think that you personally "popping the question" probably bodes pretty well. An LII might not "want to be smothered," but... they want to be smothered. You taking initiative wouldn't likely be "less than desirable," but even more so.
    Last edited by Krig the Viking; 01-24-2011 at 03:12 AM.

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    And, FWIW, I'd think that you personally "popping the question" probably bodes pretty well. An LII might not "want to be smothered," but... they want to be smothered. You taking initiative wouldn't likely be "less than desirable," but even more so.
    By popping the question what are you referring to?

    And they really do like getting smothered? For some reason I never had that impression of him - he always seemed so uncomfortable when I would go out of my way more then normal to talk to him. . . is that a good indicator or a bad one?

    Also, when he goes across the room and stares at you, is that a bad or good indicator?

    Sometimes, I wonder how he feels about me. . . I honestly don't understand him as well as I'd like to. . .

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    Do you normally hang out with other friends? You could ask to do something with him, just the two of you. Maybe go for a walk. Maybe bake him cupcakes with heart-shaped sprinkles all over them. LOL Subtle yet effective!

    I'm thinking Alpha values in general, people need to know that the other person likes them. I'm sure whatever way you decide to talk with him or ask him or get your message across, he'll like you too.

    The only thing that concerns me is that you seem like a person who procrastinates... doesn't go with your gut, but holds back... like, 6 months ago you fell for him, and just now you're thinking of breaking it to him? I don't know if you were with someone else at the time or what, but... just go for it. Get it over with. He'll probably very much appreciate your taking the initiative, and you can start a happy life together, conservatively happy, romantic walks on the beach, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82
    Which question are you referring to?
    I guess it's kinda more a statement, come to think of it, but the "I'm interested in more than a friendship with you" thing.

    Also, when he goes across the room and stares at you, is that a bad or good indicator?
    It's probably indicates something, but what exactly seems kind of contextual.

    Is it an "I want you" stare, an "I hate you" stare, an "I'm scared of you" stare, a "What are you doing?!" stare...

    Whatever the case, I wouldn't really expect a friend's stare to be negative, or anything.

    And they really do like getting smothered?
    Don't know for sure if I'm "one of them" or not, so you probably oughta get a real INTj-opinion; but, generally, yeah, I think they do. Feed 'em, baby 'em, care for 'em, "smother" 'em. ...Feels good.

    Given your description and all, are you pretty confident on his type?
    Last edited by Krig the Viking; 01-24-2011 at 03:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    Also, when he goes across the room and stares at you, is that a bad or good indicator?

    Sometimes, I wonder how he feels about me. . . I honestly don't understand him as well as I'd like to. . .
    That's good if he's staring at you, he can't take your eyes off ya. In general, people usually always think about what they look at. That means you're on his mind. And if you're friends already, like you said, and you haven't done anything extreme to piss him off, it logically follows that he must be thinking quite a lot about you in a good way. And what else could he be thinking about other than liking you more than a friend? Does he stare long and hard at all his friends? :wink:

    I think he likes you. Let him know how you feel. If he doesn't, at least you'll have no regrets, knowing you took a chance to have something special. And we'll cry alongside with ya. Let us know how it goes!
    Last edited by Krig the Viking; 01-24-2011 at 03:13 AM.

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    Do you normally hang out with other friends? You could ask to do something with him, just the two of you. Maybe go for a walk. Maybe bake him cupcakes with heart-shaped sprinkles all over them. LOL Subtle yet effective!
    We normally hang together alone in a crowd when we get to see each other face-to-face - unfortunately, we seldom get to see each other. . . which is probably one of the main reasons I have procrastinated so long. Because, over-line it is almost impossible to tell whether there is interest on the other person's side beyond friendship. And then - INTJ's are so hard to "get to know" in person that it takes time. . . ((we have known each other for over 6 years though.))

    I'm thinking Alpha values in general, people need to know that the other person likes them. I'm sure whatever way you decide to talk with him or ask him or get your message across, he'll like you too.
    I know he likes me as a friend - but - beyond that it is impossible to tell. He keeps a lot to himself. I have tried telling him subtly by commenting on how attractive he is in personality and outwardly - but; I normally end up apologizing because he gets all awkward. . . and I'm worried that I've weirded him out.

    The only thing that concerns me is that you seem like a person who procrastinates... doesn't go with your gut, but holds back... like, 6 months ago you fell for him, and just now you're thinking of breaking it to him? I don't know if you were with someone else at the time or what, but... just go for it. Get it over with. He'll probably very much appreciate your taking the initiative, and you can start a happy life together, conservatively happy, romantic walks on the beach, etc.
    I've actually been considering breaking it to him for about a year and a half. But, I didn't know how he felt - or what the consequences would be if I told - so I've kept it to myself.

    I guess I'm mainly worried that he won't be my friend anymore if I tell him I'm interested in more and - he isn't. . .

    He's also told me that it is the guy's position to be the initiator. Which makes me stop to think - what if he doesn't like it if I initiate because he's such an idealist?

    I'm SO confused. I don't know what to make of him - INTJ's please help me!
    Last edited by yellow82; 11-08-2010 at 03:34 AM.

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    I guess it's kinda more a statement, come to think of it, but the "I'm interested in more than a friendship with you" thing.
    Gotcha. I think - if I get up the guts - *gulp* - that I will tell him just that next time I see him.

    It's probably indicates something, but what exactly seems kind of contextual.

    Is it an "I want you" stare, an "I hate you" stare, an "I'm scared of you" stare, a "What are you doing?!" stare...

    Whatever the case, I wouldn't really expect a friend's stare to be negative, or anything.
    You're right. It means something - but what? - I'm at a loss. He was studying me in his gaze - not my figure - past that - more of my personality I think. . . it was that kind of gaze. I'm not sure what that means though. . .

    Don't know for sure if I'm "one of them" or not, so you probably oughta get a real INTj-opinion; but, generally, yeah, I think they do. Feed 'em, baby 'em, care for 'em, "smother" 'em. ...Feels good.
    Ok, yeah. One of my friends told me that: "guys like attention just as much as girls." So I've been trying to follow his advice - and just give him a lot of positive attention - by actually getting the nerve and telling him things I've actually thought for a while - like, he's awesome, etc.

    Given your description and all, are you pretty confident on his type?
    I am positive.

    That's good if he's staring at you, he can't take your eyes off ya. In general, people usually always think about what they look at. That means you're on his mind. And if you're friends already, like you said, and you haven't done anything extreme to piss him off, it logically follows that he must be thinking quite a lot about you in a good way. And what else could he be thinking about other than liking you more than a friend? Does he stare long and hard at all his friends?
    I hope you're right - but honestly, I don't see him interact with very many girls, I'm the only one pretty much - at least when he's around me - the other girl friends that he has I don't know.

    I think he likes you. Let him know how you feel. If he doesn't, at least you'll have no regrets, knowing you took a chance to have something special. And we'll cry alongside with ya. Let us know how it goes!
    I think you're right - but I think I'm also going to wait until I see him before I make my move.
    Last edited by yellow82; 11-08-2010 at 03:37 AM.

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    a) You're a girl.
    b) He's spending time with you.

    I think he likes you.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Ask him if he's ever thought the two of you could be more than just friends. I'd suggest being tactful about it though...lol.

    Or it could go like this:

    You: *knock on door*
    Him: *Answers door* "Hi."
    You: "Have you ever thought of me as more than a friend?"
    Him: "Yes, I think you're my soulmate and I've loved you as long as I've known you."
    You: Hmm, Cool.
    Him: "Sex?"
    You: Werd. Let's do this.

    *Dual sex*

    Roll credits...


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    a) You're a girl.
    b) He's spending time with you.

    I think he likes you.
    If only it were as simple as that but I spend a lot of time with several different guys and they're all just my pals - I mean nothing more then that - (I have adopted most of them though as brothers - or told them point-blank I like them as a friend and nothing more.)

    Ask him if he's ever thought the two of you could be more than just friends. I'd suggest being tactful about it though...lol.
    Great point! Practical suggestions?

    You: *knock on door*
    Him: *Answers door* "Hi."
    You: "Have you ever thought of me as more than a friend?"
    Him: "Yes, I think you're my soulmate and I've loved you as long as I've known you."
    You: Hmm, Cool.
    Him: "Sex?"
    You: Werd. Let's do this.

    *Dual sex*

    Roll credits...
    Um, wow. . . as I said before; we're both conservative. We are both virgins - and I hope to stay that way until I'm married.
    Last edited by yellow82; 11-08-2010 at 03:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    I guess I'm mainly worried that he won't be my friend anymore if I tell him I'm interested in more and - he isn't. . .

    He's also told me that it is the guy's position to be the initiator. Which makes me stop to think - what if he doesn't like it if I initiate because he's such an idealist?

    I'm SO confused. I don't know what to make of him - INTJ's please help me!
    So you'd like to be more than friends, are willing to take that initiative finally to stop tormenting yourself wondering 'what if', but would be willing to settle with being 'just friends' if he doesn't like you more than that. So you're looking for a response from an INTj who can tell you what they'd prefer? To come across as kindly and politely as possible, to not offend them, to possibly still be friends after?

    Mmm that's a tough one, especially if you tried telling him before that he was attractive, and it made him awkward. That doesn't mean he doesn't like you, just might mean he's awkward with expressing his own feelings. Hmm, maybe that's it! Rather than asking him how he feels, ie. trying to get him to respond from an emotional level, convince him that he likes you! Hehe. Spend more time with him. Wear something provocative, and ask him what he thinks of your outfit. Just flirt lol. Do nice things for him. I know a couple ESFj's who like to just help their boyfriends, one will fill up his car with gas for him, pay for food here and there when going out, do little things like that to show you care.

    Also, Alphas in general I know don't like huge, emotional moments:
    "Typical Alpha quadra group behavior:
    Spontaneous, disorganized activities "for the fun of it." Light-hearted, non-serious atmosphere with very few "heavy" moments. Skipping from topic to topic without focusing on the implementation of conclusions reached."

    ^^ Maybe break it to him that you like him, while doing something else. So no matter how he responds, you have a backup plan ready. Dunno why this popped in my head, but bowling is a casually fun date idea. You could tell him you like him in between frames or something. lol Be like 'I like you', smile at him, and then turn around and bowl your turn. Just remember no 'heavy moments', no pouring out your soul that you need him, etc. Cause that stuff would scare anyone away, I'm sure you know that. Just be as carefree and fun-loving as possible, have fun with it. :wink:

    Enough of my ideas, I'm off to bed lol. Maybe an INTj can respond with how they would personally like to be told that they're liked more than a friend.
    Last edited by Krig the Viking; 01-24-2011 at 03:13 AM.

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    So you'd like to be more than friends, are willing to take that initiative finally to stop tormenting yourself wondering 'what if', but would be willing to settle with being 'just friends' if he doesn't like you more than that. So you're looking for a response from an INTj who can tell you what they'd prefer? To come across as kindly and politely as possible, to not offend them, to possibly still be friends after?
    Precisely! That's exactly the question! =)

    That doesn't mean he doesn't like you, just might mean he's awkward with expressing his own feelings.
    Lol. Yep. You got him down to a 't in that sentence --^

    Do nice things for him. I know a couple ESFj's who like to just help their boyfriends, one will fill up his car with gas for him, pay for food here and there when going out, do little things like that to show you care.
    I want to! But it's so hard when he lives so far away and we don't see each other often. Are there any ideas you could give me for doing just that on-line?

    ^^ Maybe break it to him that you like him, while doing something else. So no matter how he responds, you have a backup plan ready. Dunno why this popped in my head, but bowling is a casually fun date idea. You could tell him you like him in between frames or something. lol Be like 'I like you', smile at him, and then turn around and bowl your turn. Just remember no 'heavy moments', no pouring out your soul that you need him, etc. Cause that stuff would scare anyone away, I'm sure you know that. Just be as carefree and fun-loving as possible, have fun with it.
    The problem is - were not dating - we're friends - and he might not be open to a date because he's conservative and takes them seriously. . . I guess next time I see him I could just casually mention it in conversation.

    Enough of my ideas, I'm off to bed lol. Maybe an INTj can respond with how they would personally like to be told that they're liked more than a friend.
    That would be nice.
    Last edited by yellow82; 11-08-2010 at 03:41 AM.

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    just tell him how you feel, and see what he says. if he feels the same, it doesn't matter how awkward it is, or if you screw it up. if he doesn't, it doesn't matter either. it either is, or it isn't. or it's possible, or it isn't. either way, just do the thing for both of your sakes.

    you are his friend of six years, and you love him (as a friend and now perhaps more). don't worry about offending him. it's a very small chance if you do, and if it does happen, he will forgive you if he's your friend.

    good luck! :wink:

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    just tell him how you feel, and see what he says. if he feels the same, it doesn't matter how awkward it is, or if you screw it up. if he doesn't, it doesn't matter either. it either is, or it isn't. or it's possible, or it isn't. either way, just do the thing for both of your sakes. and good luck!

    you are his friend of six years, and you love him (as a friend and now perhaps more). don't worry about offending him.
    Yeah - you're right - I just; hate. offending. people. . . I guess that's an ESFJ thing?

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    Would you be offended if he was offended?

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    Would you be offended if he was offended?
    No. Just deeply hurt - and I'd hope we could still be friends. . . but I honestly want the best for him - if I'm not it, then I'm not it. . .

    I might become slightly depressed though. . . for a while. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    We are both virgins - and I hope to stay that way until I'm married.
    Last edited by Krig the Viking; 01-24-2011 at 03:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post

    Great point! Practical suggestions?
    It should be pretty easy to bring it up if you just work it into a random conversation some time. Even jokingly may be an easy way to go about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by yellow82 View Post
    Um, wow. . . as I said before; we're both conservative. We are both virgins - and I hope to stay that way until I'm married.
    I'm thinking you clearly missed my attempt at humor...lol. But good for you, I can definitely respect that.

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    As an INTj who's experienced this scenario from the other side (having had a crush on an ESFj girl), the best thing you can do is be completely honest. If you're worried about coming across in a "less than desirable manner", tell him that. The one thing INTjs want more than anything is honesty. We have a very difficult time being able to tell what other people are feeling about us, and very much appreciate it when people just straight out tell us what they feel.

    Subtle hints will be almost completely useless on an INTj, because even if we happen to notice the hint, we'll doubt and second guess ourselves about what the hint was supposed to mean, and just become unsure of what to do. You have to be very straightforward and open about what you want to say.

    And yes, INTjs really do want to be "smothered", especially by ESFjs. We can feel very vulnerable in social situations, and can get very uncomfortable when people get too close. People notice this, and tend to keep their distance from us. People rarely hug INTjs, for example. Deep down, what we really want is someone who won't be deterred by our uncomfortable exterior, and will keep trying to get close to us, and make us feel comfortable enough that we can finally relax.

    Anyway, assuming this guy really is an INTj, I wouldn't worry too much about how he'll respond. Even if it turns out that he doesn't feel the same way, he'll be flattered that you like him, and be very nice and understanding about it. It's worth the risk. When you're 92 and looking back on your life, you're not going to regret telling him how you feel -- but you definitely would regret it if you never said anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    As an INTj who's experienced this scenario from the other side (having had a crush on an ESFj girl), the best thing you can do is be completely honest. If you're worried about coming across in a "less than desirable manner", tell him that. The one thing INTjs want more than anything is honesty. We have a very difficult time being able to tell what other people are feeling about us, and very much appreciate it when people just straight out tell us what they feel.

    Subtle hints will be almost completely useless on an INTj, because even if we happen to notice the hint, we'll doubt and second guess ourselves about what the hint was supposed to mean, and just become unsure of what to do. You have to be very straightforward and open about what you want to say.

    And yes, INTjs really do want to be "smothered", especially by ESFjs. We can feel very vulnerable in social situations, and can get very uncomfortable when people get too close. People notice this, and tend to keep their distance from us. People rarely hug INTjs, for example. Deep down, what we really want is someone who won't be deterred by our uncomfortable exterior, and will keep trying to get close to us, and make us feel comfortable enough that we can finally relax.
    you know, fwiw, this is describing me as well.

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    ESE's do seem to have a penchant for smothering people with lots of positive emotions in an almost maternal way, but like the LII's said, I think it's something they need to feel loved and wanted. Things that you probably do naturally, like give off lots of lively, warm, welcoming emotions, big smiles and lots of hugs, help LII's to feel even more comfortable around you, since they can gauge your feelings for them a bit easier
    The thing Krig mentioned about hugs is somethings I've noticed with an LII friend of mine, they seem to melt when someone is taking a gentle physical initiative with them in that way. Just give the guy a smile and a snuggly hug and he'll be all "omg, a girl is hugging me, this is so cool!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    Just give the guy a smile and a snuggly hug and he'll be all "omg, a girl is hugging me, this is so cool!"
    Hahaha, yeah, pretty much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    you know, fwiw, this is describing me as well.
    The whole thing? My mental image of male SEIs is of the "teddy bear" guy who people tend to feel physically comfortable around. If anything, I would have thought male SEIs would have the opposite problem -- that women feel too comfortable around them, and don't take them seriously enough as potential romantic interests.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    The whole thing? My mental image of male SEIs is of the "teddy bear" guy who people tend to feel physically comfortable around. If anything, I would have thought male SEIs would have the opposite problem -- that women feel too comfortable around them, and don't take them seriously enough as potential romantic interests.
    I think that I give off a vibe that I don't like to be touched. I flinch when people do, not that I'm not yerning for it constantly. the second part, yeah I get that. my female friends see no problem with changing around me, talking "as girls" when i'm in the room etc... My ESTp friend even commented on it once when she came out of the bathroom after a shower half dressed with, "I love how everyone is so comfortable with Rob that they don't even notice there's a guy in the room when they come out of the shower half dressed". she meant that in a good way, but I tend to feel like shit over it when it's pointed out, like I'm not even considered male anymore.

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    That's lame. What are these people's types, bg?

    EDIT

    I think ILEs are good like that. SEIs can be kind of sexless, ILEs naturally draw that out by being somewhere between playfully flirtatious and utterly perverse.

    I mean, okay, one of my tutors (potentially ESE) handed me a pink pen to scrawl some notes down on an essay I wrote, and I was like "Ooh, pink!"
    Her reply was thus: "Aha, I see you're comfortable with your sexuality. I like that in a man."

    Awesome

  28. #28
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    I would think that if you know you are both conservative etc., then 1) you probably already know each other quite well and 2) because of this particular arrangement, there probably wouldn't be much wrong with addressing the situation with this individual, as long as you don't start acting contrary to how you feel.

  29. #29
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    That's lame. What are these people's types, bg?
    various, the place in question was my ISFp friends apartment when she lived here. despite my lolzy sexual comments and always being lightly firtatious (well not always, but it's my MO generally with girls that I'm comfortable with), all the girls in my life just seem to take it for granted that I won't ever actually do anything physical without them making the first move, which they never do. (or it's never enough to get over my initial deer in the headlights shock)
    Last edited by bg; 11-08-2010 at 10:59 AM.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    I think ILEs are good like that. SEIs can be kind of sexless, ILEs naturally draw that out by being somewhere between playfully flirtatious and utterly perverse.
    ^this. +2

  31. #31
    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    I think that I give off a vibe that I don't like to be touched. I flinch when people do, not that I'm not yerning for it constantly.
    Interesting. Perhaps it's related to introversion? I'd be interested to see if other SEIs have had similar experiences.

    And yeah, it's not like one is sitting around wishing for more physical contact, it's more like every once in a while you realize you haven't even touched another human being in weeks, never mind hugs and such.

    I find I'm getting better at it as I get older. I've taken to initiating hugs in the last few years, for example, something I never would have even imagined doing in high school. I guess I just care less now about other people's opinions and whether or not I'm embarrassing myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    the second part, yeah I get that. my female friends see no problem with changing around me, talking "as girls" when i'm in the room etc... My ESTp friend even commented on it once when she came out of the bathroom after a shower half dressed with, "I love how everyone is so comfortable with Rob that they don't even notice there's a guy in the room when they come out of the shower half dressed". she meant that in a good way, but I tend to feel like shit over it when it's pointed out, like I'm not even considered male anymore.
    I feel your pain, man. I had similar things happen in high school. There's nothing that makes you feel quite as special as listening to a bunch of girls talk in front of you about which guys they think are cute. I can look back and laugh now, but at the time it was quite unpleasant.

    I'm not sure what's changed since then. I think it might be the beard.
    Quaero Veritas.

  32. #32
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    @ krig

    I agreed with this part, except replace INTj with "me"

    Subtle hints will be almost completely useless on an INTj, because even if we happen to notice the hint, we'll doubt and second guess ourselves about what the hint was supposed to mean, and just become unsure of what to do. You have to be very straightforward and open about what you want to say.

    And yes, INTjs really do want to be "smothered", especially by ESFjs. We can feel very vulnerable in social situations, and can get very uncomfortable when people get too close. People notice this, and tend to keep their distance from us. People rarely hug INTjs, for example. Deep down, what we really want is someone who won't be deterred by our uncomfortable exterior, and will keep trying to get close to us, and make us feel comfortable enough that we can finally relax.

    Anyway, assuming this guy really is an INTj, I wouldn't worry too much about how he'll respond. Even if it turns out that he doesn't feel the same way, he'll be flattered that you like him, and be very nice and understanding about it. It's worth the risk. When you're 92 and looking back on your life, you're not going to regret telling him how you feel -- but you definitely would regret it if you never said anything.
    although uncomfortable exterior is probably not true. I think that I tend to seem very comfortable to the point of being oblivious to how I come off (which I'm not, I'm just comfortable in my own skin/funk ).

    /edit a weird thing with me is that I understand and read body language (or even internet "body language") between other people very well, but feel like I'm being manipulative when I actually pay attention to it or use it knowingly for my advantage.
    Last edited by bg; 11-08-2010 at 11:20 AM.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    /edit a weird thing with me is that I understand and read body language (or even internet "body language") between other people very well, but feel like I'm being manipulative when I actually pay attention to it or use it knowingly for my advantage.
    Example?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Example?
    in order to physically flirt, I feel like I have to knowingly break though my "don't touch" boundaries, and sort of test the waters by gradually working up to physical contact. this never feels natural for me, although I can sense that doing it naturally is in me, if I could just not focus on doing it.

    kind of non-specific and convoluted, but does that help? I don't have a specific situation coming to mind atm.

  35. #35
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    Ah yeah. Are you just recoiling at the thought of being manipulative or something? I don't know if it helps, but maybe try thinking in terms of, you're just using your natural ISFp senses to read someone and know what to do/how they'll take it/etc.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Ah yeah. Are you just recoiling at the thought of being manipulative or something? I don't know if it helps, but maybe try thinking in terms of, you're just using your natural ISFp senses to read someone and know what to do/how they'll take it/etc.

    yeah. although I've been gradually shifting my view to one of, I'm using what I know, my skills, to make a situation where both of us are happy. Part of the problem is that I learned to much NLP and also can take manipulation to an extreme. so I have to sort of find the middle ground that I'm comfortable with, without feeling like I'm subliminally mindfucking girls into doing things against their desires. then again, I'm probably just having a big ego/being weird with that, as most girls are smart enough to sense when their being mindfucked imo.

    hence the feeling like I need to chill, stop overthinking, and just do what my natural urges drive me to do.

    /edit another option, probably the right one imo, is that I just haven't found "that person" yet where it all just happens naturally. I probably need to get back out into the social world with my new attitude and general "I'm not broken, I'm just inexperienced" self-esteem. sometimes I feel like I'm waiting for her to come to me, or fall into my lap, which seems like a losing stradegy.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    a) You're a girl.
    b) He's spending time with you.

    I think he likes you.
    +1.

    yellow82, if he is anything like me then it is really as simple as this. A girl who I could be good friends with and found physically attractive at the same time would be exactly what I would want, what else is there to it? I think I speak for most LIIs when I say we're not the type to expend energy on relationships that don't mean anything to us.

    I had a female ESE friend who I didn't even think of in that way until other guys started taking an interest in her, and when I looked to see what they saw, I was shocked. I'd say go for it. I would caution though, sometimes guy-girl friendships get so close that the girl will become like a sister to the guy, so don't be too hard on yourself if he doesn't feel the same way.
    LII

  38. #38

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    I had a female ESE friend who I didn't even think of in that way until other guys started taking an interest in her, and when I looked to see what they saw, I was shocked. I'd say go for it. I would caution though, sometimes guy-girl friendships get so close that the girl will become like a sister to the guy, so don't be too hard on yourself if he doesn't feel the same way.
    Well - he doesn't view me as a sister. I tried adopting him once a few years ago and he got offended, "I am not your brother, I am your friend". Haha, I don't think I'll have that problem.


    Lately he's been avoiding me though, which is really unusual. . . is that bad?

  39. #39
    CILi's Avatar
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    Being LII and all, maybe he's hugely into you and desperate to tell you, but unsure how to do it and uncertain he actually can, thus "avoidant."

    Or maybe he's sick and wants to keep it to himself.

    Or maybe he thinks you're avoiding him.

    Is he, like, running away whenever he sees you? Or just kinda shut-off and quiet? Or something completely different?

  40. #40

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    Is he, like, running away whenever he sees you? Or just kinda shut-off and quiet? Or something completely different?
    He actually ran away last time I saw him. . . :frown:

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