pianosinger's type: Si vs Ne and Fi vs Te

[pianosinger]

I'm still pretty sure about ENFp, but there's still this little niggle at the back of my mind that I can't help scratching...

I definitely value Ne, Fi, Te, and Si the most, and I have worked hard to develop all of them. So, it's hard for me to really know for certain which are my naturally strong functions, and which are naturally weak, but just well-developed due to research and practice.

Points for Ne as Ego function:
I have always been described by people as being creative, and I love thinking up new and original solutions to things, to look for possiblities and potential.

Points against Ne as Ego function:
I am not as easily bored by routine and sameness as the Ne-base descriptions seem to suggest.

Points for Fi as Ego function:
I care about people and my relationships with them. Once I've befriended someone, I will always consider myself their friend, and even if we haven't seen each other for years, if I meet them again, I am happy and willing to do anything for them that I am able.

Points against Fi as Ego function:
I find it tiring to have to make a constant effort to maintain a close friendship with someone. Convenience is a big factor in determining whether or not I will pursue a close, long-term relationship.


Points for Te as Ego function:
Efficiency is very important to me. I am often looking for ways to make my life and my household run more efficiently and smoothly. I enjoy learning new things and am inclined to research my options before making big decisions.

Points against Te as Ego function:
Execution of my grandiose schemes for efficiency often falls short. Or, I will keep up with a new system for a while, only to have a wrench thrown in the works and I give up on the whole endeavor. As for researching my options, it is something that I find important, but if someone I trust (like my husband) is willing to do the research for me, I am ecstatic to let him take the lead and just tell me what to do.

Points for Si as Ego function:
Comfort and aesthetics are very important to me. For instance, I have a hard time settling in at night if anything is causing me discomfort-- the room is too warm, my head hurts, there's too much light coming through the window, whatever it is. I will often notice little things out of place, like a loose hair on someone's sweater, or a piece of lint on the carpet-- and it bugs me. I enjoy putting an outfit together, or decorating a room; I even considered a career in interior design once. I love to cook, and am very good at it; I seem to have a knack for combining things in new and tasty (and aesthetically pleasing) ways; I rarely follow a recipe.

Points against Si as Ego function:
Although I said I enjoy fashion and design, it is not something I believe myself to be naturally good at; rather, I rely heavily on learning what others have done before me, and researching color and pattern combinations, etc. Also, I often think about how nice it would be if I didn't have to be constantly eating, sleeping, going to the bathroom, etc.; it is just so annoying to me that so much of my time is necessarily wasted on these things, and also attending to the physical needs of my children (thank goodness my husband takes care of himself). In other words, I want to be able to focus on Si when I want to, not because I have to.

[Azeroffs]

What gave me a tip off is that you said you like to accept help in the areas of Si and Te. Typically we don't want help with our strong functions because they are things that we feel confident enough to do ourselves.

[Nowisthetime]

I'm not sure if the things you list for each function actually are uniquely connected with that. They are more like stereotypes. I know many people with weak Si who love cooking, choosing outfits etc. Many ILEs like cooking for example. A culturally established activity, like cooking, can be a way to safely experiment with a weak function. Because there are clear borders and the activity is quite well-defined. That's how I think of it.

[Aiss]

Cooking. Is. Not. Si.

The points you make against Fi may be Te/Fi valuing. You can't have one without the other. Fi is implicit, implied by explicit Te, and that's how what you describe sounds to me. I tried to contrast it with Fe/Ti, but it's harder to explain.

I relate to most of what you say about Si, both for and against it.

[Words]

Si tends to resonate what someone feels in the moment, whereas Ni resonates the imagination and dreams of the person.

For instance with Si, an Ne type may be in the midst of some activity, and the Si type encourages them to recognise how they feel during it, their sensations of enjoyable/unpleasant etc.

So Si esp Si leading can seem go with the flow. If you're Ne leading you'll like a go with the flow who encourages you to recognise the basic internal sensations of whatever you're doing.

[Suz]

Cooking. Is. Not. Si.

LOL!!!

[pianosinger]

Cooking. Is. Not. Si.

Why not? And if not Si, then what is it?

Not trying to be confrontational, I really do want to know why you've come to the conclusion that cooking is not Si-related.

[Words]

Why not? And if not Si, then what is it?

Not trying to be confrontational, I really do want to know why you've come to the conclusion that cooking is not Si-related.

Why would cooking be Si? Cooking is just cooking, a hobby like any other, or just a necessity.

Or for instance, do only Ti types do suduko? Only Ne types have ideas?

[CILi]

What might better reflect type is "how and why" you cook, not ability or whether you enjoy it or not.

Any type can speak; any type can create art; any type can cook.

What makes you different when doing stuff like that?

[pianosinger]

Okay, so I enjoy cooking. I enjoy the process of creating something that looks, smells, and tastes good. I also appreciate good food when it is prepared by others.

Sure, any type can cook; but will any type enjoy it to the extent that I do? Will any type be good at it like I am? And what other types are confident enough to cook meals without a recipe? (and I'm not talking something like grilled cheese or hot dogs; I mean real stuff like lasagna and soups and even bread and desserts).

[pianosinger]

I've been looking at the ESTj function descriptions, and I fit it pretty well-- at least as well as ENFp. It's startling. Though, I'm thinking I'm more likely to be like ESTj when under stress or pressure. Also, if I'm ESTj, then my ILI husband would be my Supervisor, and I'm just not seeing that as even a remote possibility. And I am even more certain about his ILI typing than I am about my own.

[Aiss]

Sure, any type can cook; but will any type enjoy it to the extent that I do? Will any type be good at it like I am? And what other types are confident enough to cook meals without a recipe? (and I'm not talking something like grilled cheese or hot dogs; I mean real stuff like lasagna and soups and even bread and desserts).

Most likely, it can be any type, ILI included. Any type can enjoy any hobby, or, in fact, be good at anything - or almost anything, though I can't think of any serious counter-examples at the moment. We speak of psychological types here, information metabolism. How you learn, figure out something, including cooking, is probably far more type related than the choice of activity itself. Some ways may favor some activities, but overall it's really not this simple.

Consider this: why would cooking be related to specifically Si information?

[EyeSeeCold]

Sure, any type can cook; but will any type enjoy it to the extent that I do? Will any type be good at it like I am? And what other types are confident enough to cook meals without a recipe? (and I'm not talking something like grilled cheese or hot dogs; I mean real stuff like lasagna and soups and even bread and desserts).

I think any type could enjoy cooking but it would be for different reasons. Suggestive/Creative Si probably suffers the least from the tedious aspects of it though.

[Beautiful sky]

Creativity has nothing to do with type and nothing to do with being Ne. Ne is possibility seeking and pattern making; they see how ideas fit into systems for ILE. Every type is creative in their own ego function kind of way. For instance, SEI are creative in Si, picking out objects or making objects that are soft and pretty by their own personal subjective standard of pretty.

[pianosinger]

Creativity has nothing to do with type and nothing to do with being Ne. Ne is possibility seeking and pattern making;

I've always been kinda unclear on the "pattern making." What exactly does that mean?

Every type is creative in their own ego function kind of way. For instance, SEI are creative in Si, picking out objects or making objects that are soft and pretty by their own personal subjective standard of pretty.

Meh, I don't really care about making things "soft" or "pretty." How would creative Si look in an LSE?

[Marie84]

I've always been kinda unclear on the "pattern making." What exactly does that mean?

Patterns, or "intangible connections between processes" is essentially how works; doesn't really focus on the process of a potentiality; not to say one doesn't work with the other, but if one gets in the way of the valued intuitive element it will get pushed to the side in favor of the valued one.

I see it like, Ni focuses on where an idea/vision/concept is going, it's linear like reading a book and seeing how the story unfolds. Whereas Ne is more scattered ideas/concepts that don't need to flow towards any one thing, like jot-notes for the story

[Suz]

Why not? And if not Si, then what is it?

Not trying to be confrontational, I really do want to know why you've come to the conclusion that cooking is not Si-related.

The way i've come to understand Si is:

Si is about being in tune with the physical world, "in tune" being the key words here. (as opposed to Se which is observing and interacting with the physical world)

So, a person with dominant Si would with absolute natural ease recognize the body's physical needs. When the body is feeling tired--rest is called for. When the body is just starting to need to go to the bathroom--ding ding ding!to the bathroom it goes. When hunger is just creeping on--aha, need to think about getting food ready (whether it's cooking or ordering out or whatever).

A person with dominant Si is also very in tune with how outside things affect the body. For example. there is this famous sandwich that is made of all these meats, cheese, cole slaw, and french fries in it. Everyone knows it's like a heart attack in a sandwich, but for lots of people it's a guilty pleasure becaus most people love the taste. Nope, not the SLI I knew--this guy tried one and thought it was the most horrible thing he's ever eaten. Why? because he was so attuned to how that sandwich made his body feel (i.e. bad, sick, sluggish). So Si dominant people actually naturally choose good quality nutritious food to eat, for example. They also like the way their body feels when it's in motion-- and they are very attuned to each nuance in the movement of each muscle. Which is why they are so into risky adventure sports and endurance sports (and good at them too). And of course exercise makes the body feel good afterward so that's something an Si-dom will make sure they receive.

Si-dominants are attuned to this in themselves as well as in others, which is why theoretically Ne-dominants are appreciative of them so much (because we are so oblivious to it until things reach an extreme). Ne-doms strive to do what Si-doms are so great at. For example, I love the way a nutritious meal or regular exercise or a good night's sleep make me feel and I want to reproduce that. I'm not always successful due to lots of distractions or demands placed upon me by work or whatever, and also because of the difficulty in timely recognition like i mentioned--e.g. I'll be heading to the gym after work, and suddenly recognize the fact that i'm RAVENOUSLY hungry, thus grab the first available thing around to eat (maybe not so nutritious or healthy), and then i feel sluggish and not feel like working out. But then i realize that I'm actually extremely THIRSTY, drink some water, and realize that that was the problem to begin with. I didn't need to grab the snack but I should have just drank some water.

Also if I'm sleep deprived, I'll feel something wrong and out of whack, and think maybe it's hunger, go grab a snack--didn't help, go drink some water--didn't help, go take a shower--didn't help, and then finally when i'm about to drop from exhaustion I get myself to bed. Then when I wake up, i realize that was the problem to begin with.

I could describe more things about Si, but i'm hoping this gives you enough of a picture to extrapolate further.

[pianosinger]

I could describe more things about Si, but i'm hoping this gives you enough of a picture to extrapolate further.

Yes. Thank you for taking the time to describe all that

I can see a lot of what you describe in myself, except maybe not quite to the same extreme. idk, maybe my awareness of my body's needs has just been more learned and developed over time, not as a natural strength, but as a dedicated focus...

I am most decidedly not Si-base. But, Si creative still seems somewhat possible...

[Words]

Ne seeking in ISTp:

You wish to have a clear perception and consistency regarding your ability to recognise common tendencies and possibilities.

This is from Ganins rather lengthy test.

Ni seeking is about giving you confidence in your beliefs and fantasies.

[pianosinger]

So, this is from my most recent blog post:

I loved to dig holes and tunnels in the dirt outside. I would spend an hour studying an ant colony, wondering what it would be like to be an ant. I had a voracious appetite for books and information; I loved to learn. I also loved to interact with my environment: people, nature, whatever was handy. I remember “experimenting” a lot, just with whatever caught my interest at the moment. I would sit in the grass and pull up several blades, comparing their lengths to find the longest one. I would try to stack rocks on top of each other in different ways to get the tallest pile I could. I once almost drowned myself when I had the idea to attempt to cross a swift stream on foot; I have since learned to be more cautious and less impulsive. I am naturally curious. Ideally, I would be able to experience more myself, but I usually content myself to read about and learn from the experiences of others.

I was trying to describe my Ne base, but looking back, it really seems a lot more Te and S-related...

Gah! Can I just say I'm both and get it over with?

[CILi]

A vague "Delta Extrovert" doesn't sound so bad.

More relevantly, though, has motherhood helped (or forced) you to develop and emphasize functions that were pretty much "not you" pre-kids?

[Aiss]

^ could be a sign of Te-HA, too.

...

Some of my current thoughts on Si/Ne and Ni/Se (not really to be quoted):

Pe (Ne and Se) is static perception, content. Pi (Ni and Si) is dynamic perception, perspective, context.

External elements - Sx and Tx - are explicit, direct, focused on information in a way that requires clarity. Internal elements - Fx and Nx - are implicit, indirect, have a "black box" quality in that they model what's inside based on outside hints or clues.

Si/Ne is explicit context implying content, a perspective that dictates what's seen. Se/Ni is explicit content implying context, objects directing perspective.

Si types seem very aware of processes which are directly observable to them. This is particularly suited to observe physical processes, such as functioning of the body. Unfortunately, along with the name "caregiver" for Si-egos, this causes everything, from cleaning to cooking to taking a bath, to be considered Si-related.

Intuitives are less aware of this explicit information, and consciously focus on stronger implicit processing. Most of the sensory information is unconsciously received, and individual might even be unaware of some of its effect on leading intuition.

A silly out-of-context kind of humour which is often labelled "Ne" seems actually more popular with Si-egos - and it makes perfect sense, as it's the most accessible form of Ne for them, explicit context clashing with - and therefore implying unobvious qualities of - mismatched context. For Ne-egos, Si information is weak and unconscious, and they seemingly get ideas out of nowhere - in other words, get a lot of implicit information about content, but don't always realize explicit context which induced it.

Se/Ni, on the other hand, is like a lot of dots being connected. The perspective is implicit, directed by explicit fragmentary information, dependent on it. Ni-ego might take a view which may (or may not) be very revealing without being able to consciously point out the clues.

I don't have much of a grasp on strong Sensorics, but I think Si-egos need Ne subconscious information to fit things into context, allowing for harmony associated with this function. On the other hand, Se-egos use subconscious Ni perspective - it seems more like conventional "gut feelings" than strong Ni, actually - to know where to look for more of those "dots" (directed perspective suggests areas of focus).


The basic idea is, each function feeds its counterpart, and you can't really get out of that cycle.

[pianosinger]

More relevantly, though, has motherhood helped (or forced) you to develop and emphasize functions that were pretty much "not you" pre-kids?

My (sort-of) answer to this was pretty long, so I made it into a blog post... http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...look-like.html