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Thread: INFps-IEIs calming/taming aggressive tendencies of ESTps

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Default INFps-IEIs calming/taming aggressive tendencies of ESTps

    To what degree can the natural aggressive tendencies of an SLE-Se be calmed/tamed by having an IEI in their life?

    Let's say for instance the SLE is very loyal and would do anything to protect those he loves, his friends, family, etc. Including violence against someone he perceived as a threat and who wouldn't back down. Is this just the way he will always be, or would being dualized mellow him a bit?

    What do you think?
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    It becomes dormant, because the insight let's the SLE conserve power. My guess is that there are two factors at play: the level of dualization and the intensity of the perceived threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    It becomes dormant, because the insight let's the SLE conserve power. My guess is that there are two factors at play: the level of dualization and the intensity of the perceived threat.
    interesting good sir... I personally think this idea could be worked in further. Aggression doesn't just arise from threats... certain things like stress can accentuate aggressive behavior. Also confusion/fear on the mental level can contribute to aggressive tendancies.



    But all of that may be a confusion from the real issue, the deep question which is.... are SLEs really that aggressive? Se isn't about being aggresive, which is why I think redbaron mischaracterized as SLE, but that is a topic for another discussion. The point is Se is about "willpower and experience" more than aggression... SLE sometimes is termed the "commander" or something like that... its not necessary aggressive, it just knows what it wants and it goes and gets it. That doesn't mean the SLE is ornery.

    What I actually see is more so that the SLE gets ornery when something is put in their path. They may not understand why its there and it may stress them out... so beta NFs can easily help. They give them a broader perspective and a calming mental relaxation with Ni. Many times the goal SLEs are pursuing has some Fe-hidden agenda in it, so the beta NFs Fe usually gives them a better way to satisfy that Hidden agenda.

    It's quite simple I think......

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    But all of that may be a confusion from the real issue, the deep question which is.... are SLEs really that aggressive? Se isn't about being aggresive, which is why I think redbaron mischaracterized as SLE, but that is a topic for another discussion. The point is Se is about "willpower and experience" more than aggression... SLE sometimes is termed the "commander" or something like that... its not necessary aggressive, it just knows what it wants and it goes and gets it. That doesn't mean the SLE is ornery.
    Oh I'm very well aware that not all SLEs are aggressive. My sister-in-law isn't at all. Not in that sense anyway. But I'm talking about a specific SLE-Se who does have those kind of physically aggressive tendencies which he uses to get what he wants when HE deems it reasonable (combined with an amazing willpower). I was wondering to what extent his dual could calm and possibly preempt any sort of acting out behavior, whether due to a threat or stress or whatever. I have a suspicion the IEI does/would help but wonder if the IEI would need to be present in order to calm or if merely having him/her in the SLE's life would be enough to gradually help curb that instinct on his own even when IEI isn't around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    To what degree can the natural aggressive tendencies of an SLE-Se be calmed/tamed by having an IEI in their life?

    Let's say for instance the SLE is very loyal and would do anything to protect those he loves, his friends, family, etc. Including violence against someone he perceived as a threat and who wouldn't back down. Is this just the way he will always be, or would being dualized mellow him a bit?

    What do you think?
    There's no such thing as Se types being more or less aggressive then for instance Te types. Any type is willing and able to protect the ones they love. I have seen ISTp's that are far more aggressive, emotionally flamed then ESTp's. The information will process through the Feeling function in ESTp before it goes through aggression and it may even go through Rationality before aggression as well, while in ISTp, it is much more likely to go to emotion, then directly to aggression; this mechanism is a lot slower in ESTj, who are ration, rational, rational, then a push to act, where there's also absence of a lot of the emotional factors, but will appear afterwards, slightly.

    I have not seen an "aggressive" ESTp yet, most are such softies.

    ESTj's will fight to defend the girl they are admiring. Go figure, hummm, gee I wonder why. :0

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    What is it that's so dangerous about four loko? Both my roommates are heavy drinkers but drink 2 sips of that stuff and puke everytime. I don't see how it's so bad if it's only got 12% alcohol. Must try it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    To what degree can the natural aggressive tendencies of an SLE-Se be calmed/tamed by having an IEI in their life?

    Let's say for instance the SLE is very loyal and would do anything to protect those he loves, his friends, family, etc. Including violence against someone he perceived as a threat and who wouldn't back down. Is this just the way he will always be, or would being dualized mellow him a bit?

    What do you think?
    *magic eight ball/Confucious says voice* Socionics says that the aggression will always be there. The IEI can just help him time and channel it to appropriate ends.

    I says that if the guy has anger issues you should drop the bitch like a bad habit.
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    Just so you know, the more actualized SLEs are pretty good with people. They still have that Se instinct and it comes across in anything that's perceived as some kind of competition of wills. But when they have found a way to get their hidden agenda met and have found positive, pleasing, and beneficial relationships with people, they become a lot more mellow and friendly to be around.

    I'm not sure what the general consensus is on what Fe hidden agenda represents, but it's not just that they want to be liked exactly. They also want the other people around them to be happy too. It's probably the same thing in terms of philosophy and theory, but (point being) their instinct to fight is for this goal, just as the ILE instinct to solve problems with new ideas is for the same goal.

    Basically they want to create an Fi lax environment with joyful Fe.

    So being with an IEI should theoretically help give them the best potential to create that atmosphere that they crave by supplying foresight of Fe (Ni+Fe). So in theory it should help mellow, yes.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post
    I'm not sure what the general consensus is on what Fe hidden agenda represents, but it's not just that they want to be liked exactly. They also want the other people around them to be happy too. It's probably the same thing in terms of philosophy and theory, but (point being) their instinct to fight is for this goal, just as the ILE instinct to solve problems with new ideas is for the same goal.
    I see Fe HA as wanting everyone to get along, and maybe even wanting everyone to express themselves to the full extent. Some descriptions give ESTP the title of salesman or advertiser, which makes sense. They want to see others have fun/do good/succeed(and themselves right in second). Of course this applies to the more healthy ones, SLEs that are more self-centered would use selfishly. I don't know about ILE, if + means aggressive fun for SLEs then I guess + means something along the lines of verbal/mental/idealistic fun.
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    Cool

    ^ That makes sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    I take back what I said about nobody here understanding Se/SLEs. This was quite good. Not in the mood to check if I agree with the theoretical breakdown of what you both said, but the descriptive parts were good, imo.
    I agree.
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    I have nothing of substance to add to this thread other than I drank 1 1/2 4 lokos with a monster and Malibu and was hospitalized the next day, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I have nothing of substance to add to this thread other than I drank 1 1/2 4 lokos with a monster and Malibu and was hospitalized the next day, lol.
    <3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I have nothing of substance to add to this thread other than I drank 1 1/2 4 lokos with a monster and Malibu and was hospitalized the next day, lol.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I have nothing of substance to add to this thread other than I drank 1 1/2 4 lokos with a monster and Malibu and was hospitalized the next day, lol.
    Now you're ready to graduate to speedball use.

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    I would think this is a pretty type-neutral and more generally a male-female relationship thing, perhaps? I mean, my ILE tends to both calm me down to begin with and then help me keep a lid on things if I start getting frustrated with people or whatever because I don't want her disappointed in me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    On Halloween we were at a bar/club & some guy grabbed my ass. SLE immediately without hesitation had him & his friends kicked out the club by the bouncers, which was awesome because he handled the situation well. If this had happened years ago he would have tried to fight them like a little punk.
    awesome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    it really is liquid cocaine. Were you alright??
    Yeah, aside from nearly fainting and having sky-high bloodpressure. I came to find out it's illegal for the military here, lolz. I can hold down my alcohol real well but holy hell ive never been that messed up.

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    wouldn't it work both ways? wouldn't the SLE also calm down the provocational qualities of the IEI?

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    Provocational qualities of the IEI?
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Both ways. I have found IEI's to be more aggressive then SLE, especially when trying to get their point across. It is needless behaviour on the part of IEI, and a beneficial aspect of this particular duality is the mutual calm both experience. Neither can be "tamed", however, domestication is not the goal here.

    (Although SLE might say it is…..)

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