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Thread: What's my type?

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Default What's my type?

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    Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 05-16-2011 at 07:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    I'm not really looking into becoming part of the community right now, so I'll try to be concise for both our sakes. I hope you can excuse my selfishness .
    That's no problem for me. I always thought there should be guest accounts for people who only wanted some quick advice about their type.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    1.) I am confused about IM elements. I will release my knowledge of Jungian typology and MBTI.
    What is:




    And LLI, does it not have ? And ILI not ?
    First off, you should forget everything you know about MBTI functions, seriously. Most of us learned about MBTI before they got to know socionics. But the definitions of the IE are different and it can be very confusing if you don't mind their actual meaning in socionics. I don't know if you know it yet, but Wikisocion is the typical source for information. There you can find definitions of IEs, type and subtype descriptions ect. You should take a look.

    And yes, LII is and ILI is .

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    2.) I need help typing myself. Here's some information:
    Firstly, I am an MBTI INTP. I love understanding things and being creative. I long for close and authentic relations yet always seem to lose the ones I start. I feel overwhelmed by having to perform general maintencne and going out to get errands done. I'd rather do something myself than rely on another or be embarrassed by social awkwardness. I love leisure time, I seem to slip into comfortableness easily if I start to introspect. I easy going, but not initially because people are too superficial for me. I can play along but it won't be my full self unless you're worth it.
    That sounds rather INTp to me, especially the bolded parts. Don't listen to those people who say you just have to swith j and p if you want to find out your socionics/mbti type. That might work, but it's quite unreliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    ESE mother/grandmother - ...

    SEE sister/female friend - ...
    These two would also point out that you are INTp, but only if you typed these people correctly. That's the catch. Of course, LII wouldn't fit because you mother/grandmother would be your dual then you you would have to get along great. But duals and conflictors can be appear to be quite similar at the first glance. I would only rely on those information if yre really 100% sure about the other typings (or let's say 80%).

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    SLE female friend - One word: lust.
    Hmm, as LII, SLEs would be your supervisors. Not a very friendly relation. As ILI, that would be a relation of Semi-Duality - okay, I'd say, but not perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    SLI male friend/grandfather - Feeling of mutual understanding and relief that there is somone I can finally relate to on my own terms.
    That's quite interesting. I'm ILI and I have one best friend. Unfortunately, he refuses to take tests or think about his type, but I'd type him SLI, too (he could also be ILI or something else, though). And interestingly, I'd describe our friendship exactly as you did. We often have very similar thoughts and can understand each other pretty well. I've never met someone else who was like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    IEE female - Noticed her eyes and enthusiasm. Admired her for being adequate at comprehending concepts but felt sympathy towards her when she made intellectual blunders. I wanted to help her understand better and bring her into my world.
    Well, as LII you would be her supervisor, and as ILI you were in a Illusionary Relationship with her. I can't really make a statement about that, sorry. If you want to read about the intertype relations, you can use Wikisocion as well or this page.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Thanks in advance.
    You're welcome.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 05-16-2011 at 07:21 AM.

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    The inter-type relations described in the original post describe ILI (INTp) perfectly. If you typed those around you right, you are fo sho

    Not surprising at all considering you already know you're INTP, but that's a separate issue
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Ok.

    I still don't understand the difference between Socionic's T/N and MBTI T/N. But at least, I'm confident in my type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    If I am INTp then that would mean I value ? But I don't concern my self with the trends of time, knowing the unknowable, and the love of finding the missing piece. Nor do I value productivity and purposeful work. I'd rather build conceptual models accompanied by outlandish theories to explain recurrent phenomena.
    Hm, these two things are typical for ILIs. That's actually no problem if you still think you're ILI, because no description will ever be 100% correct. But the bolded part sounds like valued . However, if you build these models and think of these unconventional ideas for matters of reality, it's a Gamma NT thing again.

    But as Crispy said, the intertype relations point out ILI, if your typings of the other persons are correct.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    I still don't understand the difference between Socionic's T/N and MBTI T/N.

    I don't see any differences dichotomy wise. I'd forget everything you know about MBTI functions tho. Find some sources describing socionics and to see if you find something you relate to. I'd suggest wikisocion:
    Intuitive Logical Introtim - Wikisocion
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Yes, I've read Wikisocion 100 times over, lol. But the accumulation of information is useless if you interpret and apply it incorrectly.

    Thanks again, hopefully soon someone will step up and overhaul Socionics theory to be 100% consistent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    That's the confusing part, every time I read IM Elements for Socionics they always seem to correlate with MBTI, the differences I find are in the descriptions of types and function hierarchy. The subtypes don't really help much. I've read a lot of Balzac(if humor is any help I find Balzac ironic and hilarious) descriptions though and I really identify with those. I'm knowledgeable and insightful but lazy. I wouldn't consider myself a super genius that's determined to succeed in Academia/Science/Mathematics.



    If I am INTp then that would mean I value ? But I don't concern my self with the trends of time, knowing the unknowable, and the love of finding the missing piece. Nor do I value productivity and purposeful work. I'd rather build conceptual models accompanied by outlandish theories to explain recurrent phenomena.


    Well with the SLE I did not dislike her, it was just I felt such joy and internal peace being around her. It really felt spiritual, but every time we connected we would be split by our different life values. I say lust because it was like a tease the whole time.

    I had an EIE teacher who was very much into religion, English history, plays and pop music. I tended to act out a lot in his class to cha
    nge the ridiculous atmosphere of the room but it seemed I was always the only one audacious enough. When I gave in I felt like my soul was defeated in battle, I was his subordinate. If this means anything I could have sworn he was the Devil.
    Haha! You are coming off extremely LII to me . I wouldn't base your type off those you typed; you may be wrong or you may be right, but either way your type isn't relative to them, but relative to yourself, you know what I'm sayin? Also, if those are carried over from MBTI they won't make sense.

    Tell me; did you feel obligated to speak out against the ridiculous nature of your class because it was absurd, illogical, stupid, etc. or because it was so expressive, silly and dramatic and demanded expressiveness from you? I'll let you know ahead of time that is an attempt to question your disposition towards Ti and Fe.

    Also, I can't make out any obvious type. From what you've written it's certain you are an introverted NT, but which one I'm still doubtful about.

    Another question; what type do you want to be? ILI or LII, based on what you've read so much on wikisocion?

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    Tell me; did you feel obligated to speak out against the ridiculous nature of your class because it was absurd, illogical, stupid, etc. or because it was so expressive, silly and dramatic and demanded expressiveness from you? I'll let you know ahead of time that is an attempt to question your disposition towards Ti and Fe.
    The latter. It was an English Literature class, and while I do enjoy medieval themes, I think romantic poems and plays are the most sorriest sh...*ahem* I do not like them very much. It is my understanding that Ni is the demonstrative function for LII and I am very comical of theater and conspiracies. Another cause for my confusion. I prefer Fi-Ne to Fe-Ni in terms of fantasy, according to the MBTI descriptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    Another question; what type do you want to be? ILI or LII, based on what you've read so much on wikisocion?
    When it comes to function layout and description - LII, but as for intertype relations ILI describes me better.

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    You seem to be describing Fe as PoLR (Vulnerable Function).

    Fe as a vulnerable (4th) function (ILI and SLI)
    The individual tries hard to never let himself "come apart at the seams" emotionally or even let out strong feelings publicly, because displays of passion do not come naturally and make him feel self-consciousness and vulnerable to painful criticism. This makes the individual generally seem emotionally neutral and politely indifferent to excitement and agitation around him. The individual deeply dislikes attempts by others to get him to "cheer up" or "join the fun", especially in the context of group activities with loud emotional expression.
    You can compare this with LII's vulnerable function, Se:
    Se as a vulnerable (4th) function (LII and EII)
    The individual tends to overreact to aggressive or confrontational behavior, taking it as a personal threat when it may only be a knee-jerk reaction or the result of a bad mood.

    He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

    He is able to moralize and instruct others about what they should do and why, but he is not prepared for others' active resistance or refusal to do as he says. In his mind, this would require him to put aside reason and good feelings and simply make the other person do what is necessary. This is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for him to do.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Both descriptions fit me, I have tried that way already.

    What is the basic difference between PoLR criticism and suggestive criticism?
    What is an example of Fe criticism?

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    Another thing would be the Hidden Agenda which might could help you in your search for your type. It's some kind of unconcious motivations that influences your actions and behaviour. Here you can find the description.

    The idea of the 'pathetic HA' is also directly connected to that. It was made by a user of this forum. A description can be found here as well.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Si and Fi fit me >.>

    I live a very ascetic life, no drugs or drinking, no junk food/beverages (unless I have no choice).
    I also show my independence by not giving in to other's suggestions or demands on how I should live my life.

    I'm never pathetic or show off-y though..I don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Both descriptions fit me, I have tried that way already.

    What is the basic difference between PoLR criticism and suggestive criticism?
    What is an example of Fe criticism?
    The suggestive is a blind spot that must be filled by someone. It's an area that you are easily influenced by because there is nothing to resist the information being received. The PoLR is a weakness that comes from neglecting it in favor of focusing on your creative. As an ILI, you focus on Te to compliment Ni and LII focus on Ne to compliment Ti. In doing so, they have the contact they need to apply their base, and have no need for their PoLR. When it is brought up, they may recognize it's importance, but they naturally keep on neglecting it in favor of their creative no matter how much they are reminded of the weakness.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Si and Fi fit me >.>

    I live a very ascetic life, no drugs or drinking, no junk food/beverages (unless I have no choice).
    I also show my independence by not giving in to other's suggestions or demands on how I should live my life.

    I'm never pathetic or show off-y though..I don't get it.
    With role versus HA... they are both areas that you naturally adapt to. The difference is that the role is a consciously recognized area of weakness. Chances are this is the weakness you are mos aware of and make a conscious effort to adapt to. You tend to assume that other people value it, and you adapt to it i order to seem 'normal,' but when you find someone who disregards it, it is comforting because you can be yourself. The HA is an area that you wish you could be better at. You may over-estimate your awareness of that aspect and find it really embarrassing when you aren't a good as you thought. Being exposed to it is often energizing as you like to focus on it and show it off. "Look! I can do this too"
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Found some descriptions that are no longer on wikisocion. Try them out!
    The Originals, The Non-Conformists (+Ne/-Ni in ego, +Si/-Se agenda)
    INTj; ENTp; ENFj; INFp

    This group attempts to be original and unique. It has a strong need to overthrow authority. This group is into novelty and anything that is unique. As a matter of fact, the feelers in this group tend to make up a big majority of “gothic/emo” people. This group has a strong need to rebel. Also, this group is very optimistic about the future and often at times think about all the great things that could happen. This group tends to analyze the past and remember all of the failed mistakes it has made. This group often fails to complete its tasks. Often lacks the willpower to get things done.
    The Imaginatives (-Ne/+Ni in ego, -Si/+Se agenda) INFj; ENFp; ENTj; INTp

    This group is define by its timeless and dreamy like imagination. This group notices all the alternatives that can go wrong in a given situation. This group is also good at seeing the mediocrity in things. The worthlessness of things is always visible to this group. This group is also good at reading people. This group likes to read people. They want to know the true motives behind peoples actions. It is good at predicting the future due to seeing past and present trends of things. These types live in the world of what will happen, not what could happen. These types have a strong need to make sure that nothing bad happens to them. They don’t want to be in pain or agony. These types will wash their hands often and keep up their hygiene. This group lacks initiative. It often has a hard time starting new endeavors. It hardly notices the wonderful little things in life that make the body feel pleasant.
    The Creators/Systematizers (-Ti/+Te in ego, -Fe/+Fi agenda) INTj; ENTp; ISTp; ESTj

    This group is the producers of ideas in the world. The intuitive types introduce and implement new and extraordinary ideas. The sensing types attempt to produce and implement ways to be economical. This group can be very analytical, they analyze the situation and put the best idea into production. This group tries to break things apart and analyze them as them are at their deepest core. This group can be very rude, as its their functional need to be sarcastic and mean to people. In the intuitive types though, social anxiety can get in the way of this. This group wants to love and be happy. This group has a hard time appearing happy to the people around them. They are hardly ever completely nice to people.

    The Controllers (+Ti/-Te in ego, +Fe/-Fi agenda) INTp; ENTj; ISTj; ESTp

    This group works best when put in a position of chaos. It can get rid of the problems of things and make sure that nothing stands in the way of an accomplishment. This group as leaders have no remorse about getting rid of people via firing them. This group follows the rules. It knows its place in the hierarchy of things. These people organize things and make sure that things are organized and in order. This group is extremely decisive. This group tries its best to be nice and kind to people. Inside though, these type has a need to be lonely depressed and withdrawn. This group doesn’t know what happiness or love is.
    Bolded some things to make the extreme differences visible.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Found some descriptions that are no longer on wikisocion. Try them out!
    I need all those descriptions. It has to be 8 of them if i'm not mistaken. Maybe it would be good to shove them into labcoat's http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-narrator.html thread because they're attempting to describe types sharing same Taciturn/Narrator function in their ego.

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    I'm not Crispy, but these? -- Functional Revise

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    Yes. I've already posted them in the Taciturn/Narrator thread though
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    .
    Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 05-16-2011 at 07:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy
    :tongue
    So close.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold
    Se/Fi -- Si/Fe
    Pretty decent case for ILI > LII.

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    Which is what I think, it's just the descriptions are just so vague and contradicting.

    Clearly it's been shown that I value comprehensive logic and understanding. Yet being ILI means that I value proficient logic and conclusive intuition which I don't. Then again ILI as a reference point in intertype relations fit me well and so do Balzac descriptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    This is what I need:
    Se - No motivation or will to accomplish tasks, can't be assertive when needed
    Fe - Unaware of people's emotional states. Almost always think someone is giving me a bad look, kinda paranoid about that.
    Si - Bad with daily maintenance, exercise
    Fi - I can never stay in contact with my friends, but I long for deep relationships.

    I value Se and Fi the most. I'm attracted to feisty women, not doting people.

    I loathe Fe, and Si I half-value(for the pleasure).
    Well most Ti egos aren't aware of people's emotional states either. If you can't be assertive and have little motivation you may or may not value Se; it's no deciding factor, especially because it may point to problems with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Found some descriptions that are no longer on wikisocion. Try them out!
    The Originals, The Non-Conformists (+Ne/-Ni in ego, +Si/-Se agenda)








    Bolded some things to make the extreme differences visible.
    Errrr I don't think we have or ever will say that any function or type 'needs to be sarcastic and mean to people'.

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    What does it mean to have this ego?:


    What does it mean to have this ego?


    Please, do not point me to another site. I want a description to come from someone on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    Errrr I don't think we have or ever will say that any function or type 'needs to be sarcastic and mean to people'.
    Too bad it's the truth. If you don't believe me, congratulations on being ILI.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    What does it mean to have this ego?:


    What does it mean to have this ego?


    Please, do not point me to another site. I want a description to come from someone on this forum.
    = "I need to increase my potential so I can have my place and belong.
    = "I need to be productive so I can be a part of something meaningful.
    = "detached critical analysis; clear and independent thought and worldviews; appearance of self-control "
    = "goofy; don't reveal their inner life; interested in processes; passive relaxedness; ironic attitude "
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    What does it mean to have this ego?:


    What does it mean to have this ego?


    Please, do not point me to another site. I want a description to come from someone on this forum.


    Base Ti and creative Ne is a type that is focused primarily on the logical correctness of abstract ideas. They compare everything to their knowledge base to test it for consistency and logical uniformity. The are quite confident with their ability to compare and contrast things to understand the factual relationship between them. With Ne-creative, LII focuses mostly on abstract characteristics and theoretical possibilities of things. They often have keen insights which are always tested against their knowledge base for correctness. They may build highly theoretical systems for explaining real world phenomena in this way. They are very analytical as they find interest in complex things and naturally build or rebuild understandings which may or may not coincide with the conventional undersanding. IME, I find that LII are often unsettled by the inherent stupidity and injustice of the real world.



    Base Ni and creative Te is type that focus on their 'vision' of real world existence. They have strong insights into the world that are intuitive in nature. They often have complex world views and very active imaginations. With creative-Te, ILI's insights are directed toward the material world and how it functions. ILIs often have very cynical views of the world as they see it as an inherently harsh place full of real limitations and dangers. IME, they often have a "the world is doomed" mentality. ILI's may concern themselves with deep study of real world phenomena to get a better picture of how the world functions, but they are characterized by doubt and are highly skeptical of what they perceive to be overly optimistic views and other thoughts which they do not see as matching up with reality. They may give off a sense of being world-wise, as they seem to know much about the complexity of real life when really they are quite unsure about the world at large.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 10-26-2010 at 12:29 AM.
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Ok thank you both.

    It would seem I am , LLI, Wikisocion describes me well. But Robespierre does not and my intertype relations have been correlated with ILI.

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    What do you mean by goofy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Ok thank you both.

    It would seem I am , LLI, Wikisocion describes me well. But Robespierre does not and my intertype relations have been correlated with ILI.
    Since you mentioned "Robespierre"... LII descriptions are sometimes colored by the vicious leader of the French Revolution.



    LII-Ne

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    For good reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    What do you mean by goofy?
    It's from socionics.us
    I assume he uses goofy to mean: "eccentric"
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Ok I think this will get the job done:

    How would HA and manifest in everyday actions or at least the most common way? Please don't look at it from the HA pathetic theory perspective. I need real life examples too.

    Also this:
    If you have POLR, what kind of specific actions would affect it and make you crack?
    Same for PoLR.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    I did.
    ESE mother/grandmother
    SEE sister/friend
    SLE friends
    ILE friend
    EIE teacher
    IEE friend
    LIE teacher/uncle

    I'd still like this answered, btw.:

    How would HA and manifest in everyday actions or at least the most common way? Please don't look at it from the HA pathetic theory perspective. I need real life examples too.

    Also this:
    If you have POLR, what kind of specific actions would affect it and make you crack?
    Same for PoLR.

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    Si Hidden Agenda manifests as a strong desire to be healthy, but not being too adept at achieving a healthy lifestyle. Contrast this with Si Role, which causes over-focus on hygiene (washing hands, etc.) so you don't have to worry about health.

    Fi Hidden Agenda manifests as a strong desire for good relations with those around you, but not being too good at establishing stable relations. Contrast this with Fi Role, which causes over-focus on relevant social conventions so you don't have to worry about seeming insensitive.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Hmm in the case for Si, I wouldn't say I have a strong desire for it, but that doesn't mean I am adequate. I wouldn't say I have any OCD like behavior.

    And Fi, I do have a strong desire for it, but when I talk to people in stead of making the distance shorter I just stay neutral with "thanks", "no problem", or whatever's appropriate.

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    Haikus
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    Se - No motivation or will to accomplish tasks, can't be assertive when needed
    Sure you can, you're just timid and middle-class scared like. That's a combination of a lot of things but the point is with enough effort and forgiving yourself, it can be done.

    Fe - Unaware of people's emotional states. Almost always think someone is giving me a bad look, kinda paranoid about that.
    Only because you're too stuck on yourself, which creates unhappiness/paranoia in everybody. That's why bullying feels good, because you're projecting your pain outward. But you can also get those feelings by helping others, or simply focusing your energy outside of yourself.

    Si - Bad with daily maintenance, exercise
    You just don't have the right motivation. You don't have the right cheerleaders rooting for you. The only way anybody gets that far is that they feel that somebody else has their back, whether it be God, their own "life force energy" or other supportive people. The only thing you're missing is the proper encouragement. The strongest individuals in the world all have a very strong support system.

    Fi - I can never stay in contact with my friends, but I long for deep relationships.
    Everybody is like this, because we're all very independent, yet we get lonely. The only thing you're really asking for, is social support. Sounds introverted to me if you can't stay in contact easily. You just need your own space, and need to be around people that support your own selfish desires/dreams.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Wow. I can tell you you're NiFe, that's pretty inspirational stuff, 'cept I don't bully people nor do I have selfish desires or dreams.

    I know my type know though, it's ILI because when people direct Fi at me it motivates me to act and take control(Se). I've realized this happens all the time with SEEs while I am never motivated by Si to to become more expressive. Also as I am deficient in Si it would do me well to have someone who ignores it and instead help me to override it with Se.

    So yeah thank you guys for your time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    So yeah thank you guys for your time.
    and now find your subtype.

    ILI subtypes - Wikisocion

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    Hidden agenda and dual-seeking function go hand and hand, as an example, as well.

    Like it's been said, INTjs want to be healthy, where as INTp role says they want to attempt the minimum so they don't have to worry about it. Another aspect is with INTp Se, in that instead of Si health, INTps might easily take others advice or help on how to "appear" healthy, instead of actually being healthy. The same way INTjs easily take advice or help on how to "appear" friendly and on good terms with people, by the all-around emotive use of Fe, not that Fe isn't primarily about the feeling that goes in to it. Just a better alternative without having all the knowledge of the DS, just parts of it, so they don't have to focus on their unvalued role.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Hidden agenda and dual-seeking function go hand and hand, as an example, as well.

    Like it's been said, INTjs want to be healthy, where as INTp role says they want to attempt the minimum so they don't have to worry about it. Another aspect is with INTp Se, in that instead of Si health, INTps might easily take others advice or help on how to "appear" healthy, instead of actually being healthy. The same way INTjs easily take advice or help on how to "appear" friendly and on good terms with people, by the all-around emotive use of Fe, not that Fe isn't primarily about the feeling that goes in to it. Just a better alternative without having all the knowledge of the DS, just parts of it, so they don't have to focus on their unvalued role.
    Yea I understand the Model A much better now, but thanks still. Everything is very subtle but it depends on how you look at it.

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