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Thread: INTp type and subtype description from socioniko.narod.ru [Balzac]

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    Default INTp type and subtype description from socioniko.narod.ru [Balzac]

    What do you think or would like to learn about them?

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    Default INTP (c) socioniko.narod.ru

    Intuitive-logical introvert
    (irrational)
    INTp
    Balzac, The Critic


    Honoré de Balzac - the French writer.

    1."Imagination directs me". He possesses a powerful, intellectual imagination. A representative of this type, Honoré de Balzac, in his series of novels, The Human Comedy “painted” the portraits of more than 2000 people who appear hyper real: "he is comparable perhaps only to the city controller’s office" – wrote of him Andre Maurois. Similarly, the phantasmagoric world of Gabriel García Marquez is impressively precise in every detail. Due to this quality The Critic can forecast the future quite well. From empirical observations of how a man acts at various times he creates something like a functional model in his mind. In general, he tends to know everything in advance. If he did not have to warn other people about possible dangers (opportunities interest him less), he most possibly would feel himself redundant.

    2."A priest’s calmness and restraint". He almost never expresses emotions and protects from them his family and friends. He sincerely believes that passions, too strong, will lead one to his doom. Honoré de Balzac has constantly demonstrated throughout his literary works how passion spreads like a devastating cancer that eats away the souls of men until it finally suppresses all else. This holds totally true in the case of his dual (Caesar, The Politician), a hyperactive person that easily gets carried away.

    3.A profound analyst. He is convinced that living is impossible if one disregards the natural laws that regulate the world. One who ignores reality is heading for disaster. The Criticist believes that it is better to be somewhat too cynical then be a hypocrite. Hearing of a situation, he very soon thoroughly understands it and begins to tell to the bewildered interlocutor the details and aspects that the latter had overlooked. His analysis is devoid of any self-encouragement. “You shouldn’t have a different attitude towards life than you have for the kitchen – the same amount of stinking odor; if you want to cook a dish, you’ll have to get your hands dirty, just make sure you’ll be able to wash the dirt off once you are done; that’s the entire moral of our day and age." – So speaks Vautrin, a hero of Balzac’s books. Such misanthropy can kill the anybody’s spirits, except his dual (The Politician)!

    4."First and foremost, he is kind". In spite of all his “negativism”, he is really a very kindly person in nature. The above phrase about Honoré de Balzac belongs to George Sand who knew him very well. He likes strong people who know their way in life, who demand concessions: such people release him from the necessity to invent goals, while using methods invented by him (he is a master of inventing methods.) He is capable of pouring a bucket of cold water out on the head of an enthusiast. But on the other hand, he is likewise capable of easing one’s despair, when they are unlucky, when things go the wrong way, when destiny seems to be hostile…

    5.Unapproachable and thus desired. A girl-student by the name of Laima (The Politician) gave a good description of this type when she tried to describe the hero of her dreams: "He must be handsome and smart, with big and sad eyes, not talkative. He does not tell compliments, and by that he creates an impression of his inapproachability. He is taunted by myriads of problems, which, in my opinion are nothing to be bothered with. I am attracted by his sadness, seriousness, so I try to amuse him, to raise his spirits, to make him happy. If such a boy is present at a party, I wouldn’t be bored." This is a vivid description of this personality type, who is constant in his feelings, does not like adventures, and desires total dependence of his demanding partner.

    Your dual (psychologically complementary type): Caesar, The Politician (sensory-ethical extrovert).

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    Default INTP (c) Gulenko

    INTPs often have a characteristic round-shouldered posture. Their necks are often not as well proportioned as other types and their heads seem to strain forwards. Their eyes have a sorrowful look about them as if they are about to be victimised in some way. Their lips are usually not very expressive or defined. Their noses are somewhat aquiline in shape which combined with often flattened cheekbones giving the false impression that their noses are large.

    During conversation INTPs may project their lower lips forward. INTPs often show poor control of their lower jaw, allowing them to hang down. INTPs normal facial expressions usually reflect wisdom and great life experience or sadness and victimisation. Although INTPs are introverts, some of them may behave in a very extroverted manner.

    INTPs with more developed aesthetic taste are neat and tidy. They look after their clothes which they know well how to compose and combine. When they interact with others they are softly spoken and unobtrusive, leaving others the impression that they are intelligent and educated. When asking someone for something, they usually do it in such a way as to rarely be denied.

    INTPs with less developed aesthetic taste usually look like they are not bothered about their appearance. Their clothes are often old and worn and their footwear may be in a bad condition. When interacting with others they may be very active, pushy and sometimes even aggressive. They often do not obey the norms of politeness and may sometime be rough and vulgar, however this behaviour usually does not last a long time.

    When INTPs speak publicly they habitually adopt a slow, monotone speech pattern. This may have a sleep inducing hypnotic effect on their audience. INTPs are good at noticing contradictions in theories or opinions and can focus others attention to this. They are able to predict short term forthcoming events in both visual and associative forms. Through observation and their own experiences INTPs can create a precise model of others behaviour allowing INTPs to predict peoples next moves. They often amaze and interest people with this quality.

    INTPs are very sceptical to others who are undertaking new beginnings. They are able to pour cold water on others burning enthusiasm. They try to keep others from being passionate as they consider strong emotions to be harmful. INTPs also look after their health and can be very captious in these matters. For example, they may wash their hands more often than others do. They pay a lot attention to hygiene and sanitation.

    INTPs are often active in business and commercial matters. They have good abilities to quickly calculate profit. Usually they are relaxed and only undertake projects that show considerable return and profit. They are not afraid to run big businesses. Usually INTPs are very economical. They do not like to make presents or lend money to others. Because of this quality they usually try to appear poorer than they actually are. However when it comes to spending money on themselves, they can be very generous.

    INTPs usually work slowly, paying a lot of attention to detail. In their activities they show a strict logic, that can sometimes become very pedantic and scrupulous. INTPs may check that all home appliances are off many times before leaving.

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    Default INTP - subtypes (c) Gulenko

    1) utilisator

    A practical and hard-working person, a dodger that deviates from any useless activity. Tries to derive benefit from anything, does not tolerate any wastes - everything should be used somehow. Loves companies, friends, good cuisine. He has a well developed sense of humour and is able to get on with his associates. He is externally elegant, sociable, however it is slightly slack.

    2) contradictor

    He is ascetic, loves to grumble and to emphasize imperfection, searches for a good opponent. May criticize even with some biliousness. Contradictors oftenly experience difficulties in communicating with the others. They are usually people of a great erudition and have an excellent memory, but like going into unnecessary details. They may be scientists, theorists that devote themselves to fundamental developments, sensing socioeconomic tendencies as well. Using analogies they frequently may predict the trend of some process. He is often careless and negligent and doesn’t watch over his health.

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    Default Subtypes

    These subtype descriptions by Valentina Meged - Psychologist (intuitive-ethical extrovert) ENFP and Anatoly Ovcharov - Craftsman (sensory-logical introvert) ISTP, can be confusing and opinions on them are divided but nonetheless they should be worth looking at, in my opinion they can be of some use in typing.

    This description was from www.socionics.org
    Sotsionicheskaya newspaper: № 01 (01), 22.11.2002


    Note of editorial staff.

    Attention! Until now in sotsionike there is a large problem because the authors of the different theories of subtypes so did not agree about the general terminology. There exists as the minimum of 3 theories of 32 subtypes (authors of present article, V.V.Gulenko and Ye.S.Filatovoy). In each of these theories the type is divided into two subtypes, as the authors consider, with the "intensive" first or second function (i.e. for example logico- intuitive introvert it can be "logical" or "intuitive" subtype). Problem in the fact that each divides type in in own way own way, and here terms are used the same. We request to consider this with reading of article.

    We focus attention on the fact that also the pseudonyms of types all the more subtypes, used in this article, they are not in sotsionike conventional.


    Intuitive- logical introvert: CRITICISMS
    View in OR (INTP) calm, a little sad, cold, suspended, pensive. At times - self-centered, at times experiencing, sufficiently scattered. Now and then the expression of its eyes becomes mocking and sly, then in them luster appears. Eyes more frequent large and store the concentrated expression.

    Mimicry in OR is sufficiently monotonous, frequently there is the dissatisfied or sad expression of face. The smile of politeness does not sometimes correspond to situation, only artificial, but soft and locating, now and then even coquettish. It is usually calm and sad, but if something sees which does not please itself it, it occurs ironic, rarely - even it is sarcastic.

    He appears OR in the majority of the cases by man balanced, serious and deep. The motions are smooth, are leisurely, weakened. Gait a little acted unsure, although it is held with the merit. The gestures are modest, are nedemonstrativnye as entire manner of behavior. Poses weakened, unconstrained. Usually it is leisurely, it loves to have a talk. Speech in it is smooth, is a little monotonic.

    PHILOSOPHER

    Intuitive subtype appears by the calm, balanced, even sluggish person. Motions are smooth and are leisurely. It is internally shy, but he tries to hide this under the mask of irony. It is tactful, polite, punctilious. He tries in the conversation to avoid straightness and criticism. It is affable and amiable, but rarely it smiles. It is frequently something it is depressed, dissatisfied. It is internally very touchy, contradictory even we wound, although this tries not to demonstrate. From this it is frequently in the poor arrangement of spirit. Second reason - health status. It discusses its problems with the strangers not frequently, it is held with the people on the distance, it is sufficiently reserved. It loves to converse, to tell anything. It possesses a good descriptive thinking, much reads or reflects. Sometimes - it is high, thin and round-shouldered, sometimes - it is slender, but it is always important-looking. Gait and motions are smooth, only being swung.

    EXPERT

    Logical subtype produces the impression of confident in itself, sober-minded and reasonable person. It sometimes seems haughty, mocking. It is usually amiable, frequently it smiles, but smile seems monotonous, that thickened. It possesses a feeling of humor and a critical turn of mind. It is skeptical, ironic and distrustful. He tries to be polite and therefore it does not always voice aloud its thoughts and observations. Entire constantly is subjected to the analysis. It entrusts more to numbers and facts, than to precocious conclusions. A good innovator, knows how to isolate the main thing and to leave from the matters useless from his point of view. More frequently there is plumpish and thickset; however, gait usually rapid, and motion goal-directed and decisive. It can gesticulate, it occurs irregular, impulsive, but it is usually held solidly, with the calm merit.

  6. #6
    Creepy-kaido21

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    Hermann Hesse. Very famous writer in here, in Europe and he is one of my favourite writers also. He was very talented and he got Nobel Prize in Literature. Hes works are pacifistic and phylosophycal, where he mixed Niezche with Eastern phylosophy with Jungs works. I also think that we shoud study him cause of hes interest in Jungs theories.

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    I live with an INTP and I think he is great. But don't get your hopes up, they can't all be that good.
    +He is wants equality in everything (well, almost.)
    +He likes to cuddle.
    +He never gets angry. Rarely annoyed.
    +He is calm and relaxed
    +He is open to suggestion and ideas (doesn't argue about details)
    +He explains if he doesn't like something (he won't fight for no reason)
    +He is very reasonable - all of his beliefs are logical (his arguement is never "Because I say so!")
    +He wont feel insaulted if I accidently say something wrong

    There are a few bad sides:
    -He is not good at making compliments ("I like that dress." "Thanks." "... It's much better than the blue dress!" )
    -It's difficult to drag him away from the computer :wink:
    -A bit too generous with money

    Alltogether we have a peaceful, friendly relationship with no fighting or quarrels. Maybe a little boring.


    There is a huge difference between the home- and work-personality, also between the visual and the real personality. At first he looks a bit mean because of low eyebrows and thoughtful eyes. He usually looks serious and superior to others. Looks a bit uncomfertable when surrounded by strangers. He is ironic, logical and extremely intelligent.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    Ok Kristina, just for the fun of it, im gonna see what about your INTp boyfriend resmbles me.


    "+He is wants equality in everything (well, almost.) "

    Im not sure what you mean by that.

    "+He likes to cuddle."

    me too

    "+He never gets angry. Rarely annoyed."

    opposite of me.


    "+He is calm and relaxed"

    Im not calm or relaxed but I appear that way cuz Im lazy.


    "+He is open to suggestion and ideas (doesn't argue about details)"

    Pretty much me


    "+He explains if he doesn't like something (he won't fight for no reason)"

    Same as me


    "+He is very reasonable - all of his beliefs are logical (his arguement is never "Because I say so!")"

    Im the exact same way

    "+He wont feel insaulted if I accidently say something wrong "

    Oh thats the opposite of me

    "-He is not good at making compliments ("I like that dress." "Thanks." "... It's much better than the blue dress!" )"

    Maybe. I have the same problem but usually I "catch myself" just before I say something wrong

    "-It's difficult to drag him away from the computer :wink: "

    That reminds me of someone...

    "-A bit too generous with money "

    Im not generous with my money or material things.

    " Maybe a little boring. "

    I can be kind of inactive, passive and thus boring when my is not stimulated by someone or something outside of me. But when it is, then I become exactly the opposite, fun, not calm, exciting, entertaining etc.

    "At first he looks a bit mean because of low eyebrows and thoughtful eyes. "

    Yeah me too, my eyebrows always make me look angry, thoughtful, or scornful.

    "He usually looks serious and superior to others"

    I dont know if I do or not.

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    @Cheerio
    As I said, they (intp) can't all be that good. But I do like your sense of humor. I was laughing quite a lot while reading your reply.

    Pedro-the-Lion, I have read from many places that INTJ women look for similar guys, but INTJ men look for different women (more extroverted and so on). My ex was too different (ISTj/p). When I had another ingenious idea about the world, he wouldn't want to discuss it. He would just say something like "You know, it actually doesn't concern us." or "Even if we found a working theory, what would it change?". Very frustrating.
    I think that INTJ woman and INTP man make a good team.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    I'm usually an INTP, and passion is a driving force for me. Perhaps that articles needs an alternative definitation, but I feel I am defined by actions, which are defined by my passions (art mostly especially making music). I am pursuing a career as a musician and researcher in music perception and cognition despite the knowledge that I probably won't be able to support myself as a musician.

    For me, passion comes before rationality, but I score INTP about 75% of the time I take the test.
    INXX (usually TP)

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    For me, passion comes before rationality
    I like to think of it as "passion comes before convenience."
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Creepy-

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    gdf

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    Creepy-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve
    Quote Originally Posted by deus.ex.machina
    I'm usually an INTP, and passion is a driving force for me. Perhaps that articles needs an alternative definitation, but I feel I am defined by actions, which are defined by my passions (art mostly especially making music). I am pursuing a career as a musician and researcher in music perception and cognition despite the knowledge that I probably won't be able to support myself as a musician.

    For me, passion comes before rationality, but I score INTP about 75% of the time I take the test.
    You're only one type (according to the theory) so maybe you should try and discover your true type first of all. Tests can give you an idea but they can also easily give wrong answers.

    IMO then the theory is wrong and needs to be corrected. I consider myself an INXX, as there are traits in all 4 categories that exemplify my individual. I highly doubt there are only 16 types of personality, as that pretty much destroys any conception of individuality. If you take into the fact that with each personality dimension there can be an extremely large difference between the personality dimension and the amount in shows in a particular persons behavior.

    Plus the all the tests I have taken as several misleading questions, such as, "do you make decisions through logic or emotional?" Well it depends, it is logical that I should not have bought a new djembe because I am now broke, but I purchased it because I impulsively felt like it was the right idea. I really wanted it because it made me happy. On the flip side, if I am solving an ethical problem, such as human rights, my answer is almost always in terms of pure logic; i.e. individual rights take precedence over the group's rights.

    I think it's totally logical one can fall into different dimensions at different times depending on the context of the particular situation one finds himself in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    For me, passion comes before rationality
    I like to think of it as "passion comes before convenience."
    elaborate please.
    INXX (usually TP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    For me, passion comes before rationality
    I like to think of it as "passion comes before convenience."
    Same here. Its not for nothin the sixth function is called the estimative function, you estimate everything according to it. Keep in mind these profiles were not written by INTPs, therefore the INTPs phobia of Fe comes off as a repugance of passion to the INTJs who instinctivly pick up on it. The hidden agenda is not visible to others if you are an introvert, therefore its makes sense these profiles dont bring it up directly. When you think about it, Fi as the estimative function of INTPs, it makes sense we estimate everything according to our passion, doesnt it? :wink:

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    Oh, yeah, I forgot to answer this thread.

    What I meant by "passion comes before convenience" is that I follow my mood in what I do, even if it means ignoring possible outcomes. This is pretty much complete anti-Judging, as I would rather follow the moment than lead a perfectly comfortable life. Balancing my physical state and keeping difficult situations to a minimum are much less of a concern than acting on a mood or possibility. If staying out late and having fun means I have to deal with a lack of sleep, an angry mother, and a missed ATHF episode, then I'm staying out late and having fun. Knowing the future lets you manipulate it to look much less of a concern.

    And Cheerio: I agree with the passion thing, but notice what happens when everyone else is following the moment. Don't you feel invigorated to take responsibility and turn into "Mr. J"?


    Your INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Hmmmmm maybe. Maybe not. I agree with you about following the moment, I do the same thing. I think you made a good point about how knowing the future helps you feel secure about it and thus ignore it. This would be whimsicality, and yes its a perceiving trait, but also an intuitive trait if I understand correctly. Especially since we INxPs are the most whimsical of all the types.

    But I think there is a subtle difference between what you and I are talking about. Im talking about passion in terms of F, not P. I think that the sixth function is what causes me to whimsicaly act on passion, what I like and dislike, enjoy and dont enjoy etc. If you were not using feeling at all, you would still be just as whimsical, but you not choose to spontaeously do things you enjoy, as going out with friends would be of the same qualitative value as walking into a wall head first.

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    Default Re: INTP (c) Gulenko

    I only have to disagree with threetopics (in my case, of course):


    Quote Originally Posted by Malyshka
    INTPs with more developed aesthetic taste are neat and tidy. They look after their clothes which they know well how to compose and combine.

    INTPs with less developed aesthetic taste usually look like they are not bothered about their appearance. Their clothes are often old and worn and their footwear may be in a bad condition.
    I'm actually *very* untidy in my room. I just need a chair to sit down in front of the computer, space for the mouse and keyboard and to see the monitor (wich is surrounded by cds, glasses, cookies, etc.) The rest it's a pure disaster. From time to time I re organize my room, tidy up everything but it's a matter of a couple days for everything to get untidy again.

    But I'm very neat and tidy with my MP3 or movies collection for example and I also give a lot of attention to my clothes and how they combine. Generally I wear black and dark grey clothes and long coats (formal look). BUT I don't pay much attention to my shoes. I just don't feel like going to buy a pair of nice shoes, I alwas spend the money on shirts, trousers, etc.
    So I think I'm a mix of both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malyshka
    Because of this quality they usually try to appear poorer than they actually are.
    No, everyone thinks I've more money than I actually have.

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    most INTP's always tend to make me laugh (jsut watching) as there ability to out smart alot of people in a debate.
    ISFP, SEI

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    Default Re: Subtypes

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul

    EXPERT

    Logical subtype produces the impression of confident in itself, sober-minded and reasonable person. It sometimes seems haughty, mocking. It is usually amiable, frequently it smiles, but smile seems monotonous, that thickened. It possesses a feeling of humor and a critical turn of mind. It is skeptical, ironic and distrustful. He tries to be polite and therefore it does not always voice aloud its thoughts and observations. Entire constantly is subjected to the analysis. It entrusts more to numbers and facts, than to precocious conclusions. A good innovator, knows how to isolate the main thing and to leave from the matters useless from his point of view. More frequently there is plumpish and thickset; however, gait usually rapid, and motion goal-directed and decisive. It can gesticulate, it occurs irregular, impulsive, but it is usually held solidly, with the calm merit.
    100% true...
    Even the way I walk is precisely described... this is scary

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