I am an ENTj

[Kristiina]

The relations have already been described.

1. I feel the most comfortable and good when I use Te. I get this warm and fuzzy feeling of being how I am supposed to be. I feel pretty sure of myself. And if I lose, I don't care. I sometimes make nonsense arguments just to use Te, so in these cases I'm counting on losing.

2. I use it so much, I find it hard to describe. I assume everyone thinks like I do. Time is a pretty relative thing... I jump between things and surroundings that I have experienced, and I can jump into the experiences that haven't even happened yet (almost as bright as the past, but changes a bit more quickly). I will re-live some future-experiences again and again... And when I get there, I rush things and leave a bad impression. it sucks. My Ni-thoughts are brighter than the reality. I will completely or mostly zone out in the middle of conversations, meals, cuddling, etc. I will shake my head, pretending to come out of it, but actually I just tune it down a notch.

3. I try to act like I care about people and that I understand them, but actually I don't care and don't understand. I can understand the basic body language after a lot of practice, but I don't really trust my abilities.

4. I'm paranoid about germs and spoiled food. I wash my hands way too often. I am pretty ticklish and sensitive to touch. I get uncomfortable when people invade my personal space. (unless if I want them to). And I have the typical ENTj-ish Si PoLR as well. I feel the most bad when people are making fun of my looks. Also, I feel indescribably bad when people laugh at who I am (my personality, self-perception). I don't really want to get into that. Everyone has weaknesses. This is mine.

5. I love it when people are being friendly and nice. It's nice to see them care about others... It's somehow heart-warming. Just as long as they don't force me to act that way.

6. I have talked so much about my weak Se to get chills even thinking about it. It really is weak. Basically, from another angle, a rather strong Se is one of the best things a guy can have. I don't care about them being a hunk with lots of muscles, I just need them to have an aura of control and lots of will-power.

7. My Ti is surprisingly strong. I still think it's might even be stronger than Te. But I have to get the extrovertedness from somewhere... At the very least, this is definitely not my PoLR. Role Ti would also be very unbelievable.

8. I realized it can't be very weak. I can't stand people who have no real potential in life. What this means is that I must unconsciously see the difference. And I'm usually right. There are few people who have turned out to be successful against all odds, but usually it takes just a short conversation for me to have an opinion ("No more than low-average salary. He just doesn't have what it takes."). The ones I thought had potential have indeed accomplished things, and the ones with little or no potential are in the exact same place where they were 4 years ago.


I can't see how this functional description leaves room for any other type.

[vee_S]

it might be that you're very balanced, and therefore difficult to type;

why not consider yourself an XXXj?

[schrödinger's cat]

I'm not the expert, but your description of how you exercise sounds like you mainly use it to determine someone's earning potential. Someone's hidden business qualities. Correct?

[Kristiina]

I'm not the expert, but your description of how you exercise sounds like you mainly use it to determine someone's earning potential. Someone's hidden business qualities. Correct?

That's interesting. Never thought of it this way.

I can just say that I'm still growing into my type. I'm still in university and I know I haven't reached even half of my potential yet. I just show signs of having some potential for a good future.

[FDG]

[Eidos]

I don't think you're ENTj as I have already stated. I think you undervalue ISFj's too much. Also, you said alot of things about how the mafia would be cool, etc. Personally, I can't relate to all this. I aspire to and being a "good" person. I may not be, of course, and my behavior may be far from perfectly good, but at least I want to be that way. You, on the other hand, seemed to take pride in being "bad" and not having morals. This is alien to me. Ethics and being a good person that helps others are really key aspirations for me. I would be flattered being considered an ISFj. I really love these people and if I could be one I would.

[implied]

[Kristiina]

You have all had your chance to prove the ISFj theory. Even if parts of it make sense, it still makes less sense than ENTj. Sorry, that's the way things are.

And I understand you can't see my Ni and Ti, but that doesn't really change my type.

[Kim]

I can just say that I'm still growing into my type. I'm still in university and I know I haven't reached even half of my potential yet. I just show signs of having some potential for a good future.

You don't grow into your type, you are your type. And potential has nothing to do with type. Every single type out there can do anything.

[Kristiina]

I can just say that I'm still growing into my type. I'm still in university and I know I haven't reached even half of my potential yet. I just show signs of having some potential for a good future.

You don't grow into your type, you are your type. And potential has nothing to do with type. Every single type out there can do anything.

You misunderstood me. Again.
I was kinda teased throughout my school years. I had a total distrust of all people. So I consider my personal growth to have begun in the university. And we can exclude the first year. Then I was still shy and paranoid... So you could say I'm 3 years old. Now when was it that children could be typed?... 3? 4 years old? Well... I have changed more than I ever could have believed I would. I have actually become a totally different person. If I have been ENTj all along, it would explain why I had such a hard time growing up. The only thing I remember that has anything to do with functions, is that even before I ever went to school, I didn't really like the idea of giving one of our dolls to someone who didn't have any dolls. And it's weird I even remembered it. (And if it makes you feel any better, we voted and I was the minority, so we gave the doll to that little girl.)

So I would still say that I'm 3/4 of a personality with a lot of potential. And no wonder I prefer not to act very ENTj-ish. I really dislike the ENTj PoLR. It's the worst one to get.

[implied]

[Kristiina]

Implied... That's the one of the problems - I am a germ-hater, but I'm not a neat-freak or "doing the laundry all the time". Well... I usually do the loundry here, but it's because so much has accumulated and I decide to do everyone (including myself) a favor and put some of them in the washing mashine... I might have the ISFj mind-set, but not ISFj life style. And I have always considered the IRL to be more important than the online.

From Se qualities, I only have one - I need to get somewhere in life. And to all of those who say this is a very non-ENTj trait, look at all the ENTj-leaders lists. They couldn't have all just got where they were by having lots of luck. Makes no sense. ENTjs with no big goal can't be the majority.

PS! thanks for the cool post

[implied]

[FDG]

From Se qualities, I only have one - I need to get somewhere in life. And to all of those who say this is a very non-ENTj trait, look at all the ENTj-leaders lists.

All ENTjs have this as goal, no ENTj have this as obsession.

Anyway, the thing you metioned about not giving dolls and toys to other children is a sign of stron . I'm not gonna try to argue your type in-depht.

Edit: I changed my mind. Let's analyze some lines of this last post of yours.

feel the most comfortable and good when I use Te. I get this warm and fuzzy feeling of being how I am supposed to be. I feel pretty sure of myself. And if I lose, I don't care. I sometimes make nonsense arguments just to use Te, so in these cases I'm counting on losing.

It's pretty clear that the number of freudian slips is paramount. YOU, yourself, speak about how you're "supposed" to be some way, not what you actually ARE and do AUTOMATICALLY.

I use it so much, I find it hard to describe. I assume everyone thinks like I do. Time is a pretty relative thing... I jump between things and surroundings that I have experienced, and I can jump into the experiences that haven't even happened yet (almost as bright as the past, but changes a bit more quickly). I will re-live some future-experiences again and again... And when I get there, I rush things and leave a bad impression. it sucks. My Ni-thoughts are brighter than the reality. I will completely or mostly zone out in the middle of conversations, meals, cuddling, etc. I will shake my head, pretending to come out of it, but actually I just tune it down a notch.

This just sounds like introversion zoning-out.

I try to act like I care about people and that I understand them, but actually I don't care and don't understand. I can understand the basic body language after a lot of practice, but I don't really trust my abilities.

This does sound like weak Fe.

'm paranoid about germs and spoiled food. I wash my hands way too often. I am pretty ticklish and sensitive to touch. I get uncomfortable when people invade my personal space. (unless if I want them to). And I have the typical ENTj-ish Si PoLR as well. I feel the most bad when people are making fun of my looks. Also, I feel indescribably bad when people laugh at who I am (my personality, self-perception). I don't really want to get into that. Everyone has weaknesses. This is mine.

I don't give a rat shit about germs, the dirtier the better. I've ate spoiled food without noticing. I am the one invading other people personal space, sometimes . I don't give a shit when people laugh at my personality, since it's pretty clear to me who I am, and who I want to be. I am not sensitive to touch at all, you need to tickle me pretty strong in order to get a rise out of me.


[/img]

[Dioklecian]

I have had a terrible ralation with a female ENTJ, is there a difference with male ones?

[FDG]

I have had a terrible ralation with a female ENTJ, is there a difference with male ones?

I dunno about male female ENTjs. I guess they have some personality problem if they had to change sex.

[implied]

[Dioklecian]

I have had a terrible ralation with a female ENTJ, is there a difference with male ones?

I dunno about male female ENTjs. I guess they have some personality problem if they had to change sex.

Thanks, I know what you mean :wink:

[Expat]

I might have the ISFj mind-set, but not ISFj life style.

well, what's your idea on what the "ISFj lifestyle" is? that's what i'd dig some clarification on!

Yes. That would be interesting.

[Kristiina]

I might have the ISFj mind-set, but not ISFj life style.

well, what's your idea on what the "ISFj lifestyle" is? that's what i'd dig some clarification on!

Yes. That would be interesting.

I have accumulated an understanding about the ISFj. Don't make me write it all down. I won't. It would be such a waste of time. ENTjs would notice only the parts that they could use against me to make me doubt my type.

What description, a short description, is good enough for me to comment? And in many ways enough ISFj that it excludes other types. (not full of things that are actually only characteristics of the gamma quadra). The huge functional analysis is so long, it gets too vague to comment. And way too general.

PS! I asked the ISFj I know, "Are we similar? We get along well, but is it because we are so similar?". He smiled with a kind of amazement... (face said "silly question!") and he said "No!". Then he thought a moment and said, "We are not very similar." I asked him, "because I don't sense my surroundings that well?" and he seemed relieved that he didn't have to phrase it and said, "Yes, that's what I was thinking about.".

[Kristiina]

From Se qualities, I only have one - I need to get somewhere in life. And to all of those who say this is a very non-ENTj trait, look at all the ENTj-leaders lists.

All ENTjs have this as goal, no ENTj have this as obsession.

Anyway, the thing you metioned about not giving dolls and toys to other children is a sign of stron . I'm not gonna try to argue your type in-depht.

Edit: I changed my mind. Let's analyze some lines of this last post of yours.

I have some of Se-mindset (ambitions, I need to have some control over things), but not the behaviour. Quoted from here , "When you are oriented in the Se way, you live completely in the moment. You respond now to what is happening now. What happens later, you'll deal with later. What's happened in the past is irrelevant." I always reflect on things. If things start happening too fast, I withdraw to reflect on my knowledge of things. I think before I act. (Except with my out-of-control ) And I didn't want to give the doll, because I didn't understand why the girl should have it (emotionally). Not because of Se in any way.

feel the most comfortable and good when I use Te. I get this warm and fuzzy feeling of being how I am supposed to be. I feel pretty sure of myself. And if I lose, I don't care. I sometimes make nonsense arguments just to use Te, so in these cases I'm counting on losing.

It's pretty clear that the number of freudian slips is paramount. YOU, yourself, speak about how you're "supposed" to be some way, not what you actually ARE and do AUTOMATICALLY.

I use it so much, I find it hard to describe. I assume everyone thinks like I do. Time is a pretty relative thing... I jump between things and surroundings that I have experienced, and I can jump into the experiences that haven't even happened yet (almost as bright as the past, but changes a bit more quickly). I will re-live some future-experiences again and again... And when I get there, I rush things and leave a bad impression. it sucks. My Ni-thoughts are brighter than the reality. I will completely or mostly zone out in the middle of conversations, meals, cuddling, etc. I will shake my head, pretending to come out of it, but actually I just tune it down a notch.

This just sounds like introversion zoning-out.

I don't think so.

I try to act like I care about people and that I understand them, but actually I don't care and don't understand. I can understand the basic body language after a lot of practice, but I don't really trust my abilities.

This does sound like weak Fe.

'm paranoid about germs and spoiled food. I wash my hands way too often. I am pretty ticklish and sensitive to touch. I get uncomfortable when people invade my personal space. (unless if I want them to). And I have the typical ENTj-ish Si PoLR as well. I feel the most bad when people are making fun of my looks. Also, I feel indescribably bad when people laugh at who I am (my personality, self-perception). I don't really want to get into that. Everyone has weaknesses. This is mine.

I don't give a rat shit about germs, the dirtier the better. I've ate spoiled food without noticing. I am the one invading other people personal space, sometimes . I don't give a shit when people laugh at my personality, since it's pretty clear to me who I am, and who I want to be. I am not sensitive to touch at all, you need to tickle me pretty strong in order to get a rise out of me.

How many times per day do you shower. You don't need to answer that. I'm just pointing out how you're also a neat-freak when it's about your body.
And the "who you want to be"... there is some serious freudian thing going on there. :wink: Everyone has some self-image. I have a stronger image of the future-me. I don't see it in detail, I just see my strengths and my potential. I would never join the military (unlike ISFjs who seem to love it), because I need more creativity. It's too traditional even for me. There is no possibility of changing things. There are no short-cuts to success. There is no possibility of using your unique talents or trying to improve things. Besides... I could never pretend to be such a neat-freak. It would be too much of a difference.

Like in the summer... I needed to wash my dishes each time I had finished eating, I had a strict day-plan. I was working and living in the middle of no-where and my boss was an ISTj. We were so clearly different, but I wanted him to respect me as an employee because I respected him. I tried to act in a proper way for an ISTj, but it's just so not me. I got bored of the routine. I spent my time trying to be creative in any way, but there wasn't much to do. It really exhausted me. I was able to wash my dishes (I only had one set of them), but my room was still pretty much a mess.
There was another ISTj staying there sometimes, and she always unpacked everything in a neat organized way. I didn't even bother to unpack my things most of the time, because I would need to re-pack them in few days. So I just pulled the necessary things out of my bag when I needed them.
I know I was describing ISTjs, not ISFjs... but most of the things I described, should also apply to the ISFjs. It's a different lifestyle.

[Expat]

I dunno about male female ENTjs. I guess they have some personality problem if they had to change sex.

duh, female ENTjs don't exist! they're all EXFps and IXFjs!

Of course they exist, I'm convinced that Yulia Tymoshenko (the lady in my present avatar) is one.

But I have never met one IRL that I know of. Of course, this may simply mean that I have not recognized them *shrugs*. I really don't know. I can spot male ENTjs easily, though.

[Expat]

There was another ISTj staying there sometimes, and she always unpacked everything in a neat organized way. I didn't even bother to unpack my things most of the time, because I would need to re-pack them in few days. So I just pulled the necessary things out of my bag when I needed them.
I know I was describing ISTjs, not ISFjs... but most of the things I described, should also apply to the ISFjs. It's a different lifestyle.

Actually I agree with you on that point.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Eidos]

Kriistina, these threads about being ENTj are getting ridiculous. If you're so convinced that you're an ENTj, why do you spend all your time trying to convince everyone else? I think you really do have some strong identity issues. It's as though you absolutely wanted to be an ENTj because you think if you are another type you will have not lived up to your potential... or be a worthless person.

If you really want to grow you should start looking at yourself objectively, like you are and not who you want to be. Anyone can do great things, but if you can't realistically assess your actual state, how can you improve? You'll just go in the wrong directions.

One simplistic and pseudoscientific theory of human personality won't solve everything for you. It will probably make things worse and limit the scope of what you can do by boxing yourself up concepts not grounded in reality.

Why is it so important to know your type anyway? Do you really need that to know who you are?

[Kristiina]

Diana,
I lived with my boss for a pretty long time and figured out his type later. And I've spent time with the other ISTj and she's pretty much identical to a third ISTj that I know. And the third ISTj was reading an ISTj description and agreed 95% (or was it 97%...)

I live with an INTp who likes things organized. His mother is pretty neat, I think he got it from her. But I'm so bad at keeping things tidy (even compared to an INTp), that it's a mess here. I try to make it better, but it mostly means that I clean up about half an hour before the guests arrive. I understand that being a neat-freak isn't everything, but I'm almost as bad as ENTps, with the exception that I look half-tidy and organized when I have to go out. (PS! you never want to see the inside of my handbag. I try to throw out old tickets and notes, but it's just not working.)


Eidos,
What? You have a "feeling" that I'm not ENTj? explain it. Don't just argue. And I need to know my type if I want to learn anything more about socionics. If I don't find out what type I am, it's all been a waste of time.
But yeah, I have strong identity issues.
I know that everyones convinced I'm ISFj. I'm trying to verbalize why I think it's impossible. I tried a different approach. If you can see another type in my functional analysis or other things I've said in the forum, tell me. I'm curious to know. Even after all this struggle I still see the ENTj A model as the most natural one for me. I might be wrong, who knows... The Se-ambition goal-driven attitude might be a bit too not-ENTj. But it does not mean I've got Se-creative.