My definition of humble: the person is usually willing to admit he or she is wrong
My definition of proud: the person is usually unwilling to admit he or she is wrong
IMO: xxxp = humble, xxxj = proud
Your opinions, plz!!
My definition of humble: the person is usually willing to admit he or she is wrong
My definition of proud: the person is usually unwilling to admit he or she is wrong
IMO: xxxp = humble, xxxj = proud
Your opinions, plz!!
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Correct. Judging means you don't like to change your opinion, perceiving means you don't have a problem with it.
Kinda fails to apply to Pinocchio.
Yeah this... Convince me I'm wrong and I'll gladly step down from the position.Also I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if I actually believe myself to be wrong.
It's just when people tell me that elementary things that I observe multiple times every day and keep having confirmed to me that I find it safe to present my views in a more definitive way.
A lot of times there is also a discussion climate where everybody just form opinions randomly. That's when a more reinforced presentation of one's own opinion is called for when that opinion is based on something. All the people who were just faking it will just give up in the face of confrontation.
other than that, the association is complete bogus.
Last edited by krieger; 10-22-2010 at 02:13 PM.
Nah, sounds iffy.
Pride is one of the "seven deadly sins" of traditional C'ianity: Seven deadly sins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It's extensively described and condemned in the Bible as well.
One manifestation is described here:
Another one:Is 65v5
Keep to yourself, do not come near me, For I am holier than you!
The interesting thing is IMO how pride manifests itself with different foci among the types, in terms of attitudes I can imagine it tends to go kind of like this:Is 14v13-14
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly
...
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
NT: "I'm smarter than you".
Sp: "I'm better looking than you."
Sj: "I have higher social status than you."
NF: "I'm better than you."
Also, the extended self (basically anything that tends to follow the word "my" in daily communication: my opinions, my religion, my country, my car, etc. ) probably comes into play in deciding how pride is manifested.
Last edited by ragnar; 10-22-2010 at 03:19 PM. Reason: link
Greetings, ragnar
ILI knowledge-seeker
I don't have problems admitting I'm wrong.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
FUCK NO THAT'S WRONG I AM RIGHT!ascvcxvc
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
questionable
In my case, I can easily swing one way or the other. I consciously make an effort to take the position that I could be wrong. Most of the times I get into heated arguments with others is because I'm fixated on the point that they can't be sure that what they're saying is true even if I might agree with them. Consequently, I'm usually playing devil's advocate.
I have hard time letting others get away with thinking they're right especially when I see them as overly sure of themself, but I'm pretty quick to admit that I could be wrong even if I think I'm right.
I'd put myself in the 'humble' category, but I know there are some that would say I'm 'proud.'
I don't think people usually see that I'm trying to break down their assertions rather than defending my own.
well I've noticed that with the INFp/ESTp pairing, the INFp usually concedes and admits they're wrong whereas the ESTp rarely does. *shrug*
IEI-Fe 4w3
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Why are you not more specific here? Are you saying that NF's think they're better than everyone in every way? Maybe "I understand better than you." Or "I know more than you." Only having to do with people and relations rather than ideas and knowledge (like the NT). IME, we NF's have a tendency to think we know and understand more about people than we really do.NF: "I'm better than you."
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Input, PLEASEAnd thank you
I thought about it again. Maybe I was wrong. (Does that make me a "humble" type? Probably not, because I didn't enjoy changing my opinion... )
While judging certainly means that you don't like to change your decisions, and perceiving means you adapt to the current situation, the dichotomy proud/humble might not exactly mean the same.
judging/perceiving: like to change decisions (no/yes). When you realize that you were wrong...
proud/humble: like to change opinions (no/yes). When you are told by another person that you were wrong...
That seems to be true. So ENTp is a "proud" type?Originally Posted by socionics.com ENTp
proud: Alpha-NTs, Beta-rationals, Gamma-NTs, Delta-rationals
humble: Alpha-SFs, Beta-irrationals, Gamma-SFs, Delta-irrationals
proud = democratic*thinking*intuitive OR aristocratic*judging*process
humble = democratic*feeling*sensing OR aristocratic*perceiving*result
PROUD: democratic*thinking*intuitive = ENTp, INTj, ENTj, INTp --- those NTs often think they know everything better than anyone else so they don't like to be told they are wrong. Alpha-NTs are probably even more proud than Gammas...
PROUD: aristocratic*judging*process = ENFj, ISTj ESTj, INFj --- ENFj and ISTj are the most "proud" types, as far as I can judge it. They hardly ever admit that they were wrong. ESTj and INFj are not THAT "proud" I think...
HUMBLE: democratic*feeling*sensing= ESFj, ISFp, ESFp, ISFj --- those SFs are normally willing to admit they were wrong...
HUMBLE: aristocratic*perceiving*result = ESTp, INFp, ENFp, ISTp --- INFp and ENFp are probably the most "humble" types. I'm not quite sure about ESTp. I put him into that group because of symmetry...
Last edited by JohnDo; 11-01-2010 at 08:05 AM.
This is very accurate IMO. I tend to think I'm better than others morally speaking, and it's what I'm most self-confident in. I'm also put off by the social status snobbery in the sj the most, and I'm the most protective of sps being shallow with physical beauty. And I'm neutral with the NTs I'm smarter than you-ness.NT: "I'm smarter than you".
Sp: "I'm better looking than you."
Sj: "I have higher social status than you."
NF: "I'm better than you."
I wouldn't considerate it a legitimate dichotomy. It's emotional attachment that makes people stand by their views so strongly. I'm naturally humble, being the emotionally detached person that I am, but if one of my views are contested I can become a stone wall. If I am found incorrent, however, I am willing to move forward provided that we do not have to dwell on my shortcomings.
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case example: I asked my co-worker what she was planning on for halloween and her response was her husband is attending a halloween party while she stays at home and takes care of their children. Then she started on like she was sacrificing herself so her husband could enjoy himself. At which point I interrupted by saying: "that's stupid, why not hire a babysitter?" and surprisingly she didn't get angry at me. When I was around her the next day she was actually more talkative and sociable. I was considering I may have been too blunt and needed to apologize but I suppose that was one act of pride seen for what it was - playing the martyr when a compromise is available. So ya the next day she was really humble which was refreshing. Her type is ESE.