emotional input

[717495]

So what types are the most likely not to care about inputing emotion, like when someone asks me "how are you doing?" I might respond "uh yeah" or "alright" because I feel like other people need to cool down a little bit and not get me so involved. I want there to be a calm, relaxed atmosphere where I can think and reflect, and I tend to think other people are being invasive to my peace of mind, or trying to diverge my plans or thoughts. I know its weird, but I like when people leave me alone especially if we're hanging out together, we can each focus on different things, or not distract each other from our thoughts, but still be in each others company with the ability to share thoughts with one another, without over-doing it. I like going over to my friend's house where its pretty silent and irritant free, its rather dim, you can kind of get lost, but basically you're able to relax and have your own space, and you don't have to commit to people. You can go in and out and it's not like its some big deal that you're starting up the conversation again or disconnecting, and it's definitely no big deal that you're paying absolutely zero attention to what's going on around you.

I think ENTps are able to fit this profile pretty well, because they're Fi-PoLR so they're not really concerned with maintaining communication or keeping a close eye on connectivity, or caring much when something else comes up and there's a disconnect. Then especially the fact that they're static types and need to focus more on their thoughts, and Si-valuing they're not-decisive types, so they're naturally more relaxed and aren't of the mindset that they need to do something right away. I can picture more extroverted ENTps who talk a lot maybe going overboard and getting on my nerves, but they're pretty socially-conscious people because of Fe, they're just not always very interested in the social aspect, which is why I think they don't typically seem that extroverted, and are usually good at blending in by kind of fading out in to their head.

What do you think?

[Trevor]

So what types are the most likely not to care about inputing emotion, like when someone asks me "how are you doing?" I might respond "uh yeah" or "alright" because I feel like other people need to cool down a little bit and not get me so involved. I want there to be a calm, relaxed atmosphere where I can think and reflect, and I tend to think other people are being invasive to my peace of mind, or trying to diverge my plans or thoughts. I know its weird, but I like when people leave me alone especially if we're hanging out together, we can each focus on different things, or not distract each other from our thoughts, but still be in each others company with the ability to share thoughts with one another, without over-doing it. I like going over to my friend's house where its pretty silent and irritant free, its rather dim, you can kind of get lost, but basically you're able to relax and have your own space, and you don't have to commit to people. You can go in and out and it's not like its some big deal that you're starting up the conversation again or disconnecting.

I think ENTps are able to fit this profile pretty well, because they're Fi-PoLR so they're not really concerned with maintaining communication or keeping a close eye on connectivity, or caring much when something else comes up and there's a disconnect. Then especially the fact that they're static types and need to focus more on their thoughts, and Si-valuing they're not-decisive types, so they're naturally more relaxed and aren't of the mindset that they need to do something right away. I can picture more extroverted ENTps who talk a lot maybe going overboard and getting on my nerves, but they're pretty socially-conscious people because of Fe, they're just not always very interested in the social aspect, which is why I think they don't typically seem that extroverted, and are usually good at blending in by kind of fading out in to their head.

What do you think?

I think you're INTp, that's what I think.

[717495]

I couldn't care less about business, money, and work-related accomplishments

I'm definitely some F PoLR though, and logical ego. I have a difficult time with people who are emotive or trying to get some feeling out of me by playing with me, making comments, hugging or gesturing, all this kind of stuff I try to ignore even though I'm usually conscious of it, I'm actually rather disgusted and uncomfortable by that sort of thing, so I'd have a hard time believing I'm DS.

[CILi]

What do you think?

My experience may be more with those "overboard, extroverted ENTps" you mention near the end; but I've often noticed that Fi-PoLRs strongly input something in the people around them. I'm not sure if its Fi, Fe, or even "emotion" per se; but they tend to spark and generate some kind of energy in others. That opposite numbing/calming effect you describe is something I associate a little more with Fe-PoLR. Not only do they "not care" about inputting emotion, but it seems they really don't want to. ENTps, in my experience, would actually like to get emotionally excited with people (temporarily), but aren't confident that they can help make it happen.

Likely wrong, but that's what I think.

[717495]

Oh really? I guess that makes sense I could see that, but people on here don't seem to think ILIs exist and tell me I couldn't be one. I feel like I equally ignore relationships too, and when acknowledging feelings they're usually my own conscience. I relate the most to ILI descriptions actually heh, except when they say ILIs are great forecasters, and that they care about business, money, and work-related accomplishments. Doesn't really sound like me, but most of the description does. SLI descriptions are usually less fitting.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

[Trevor]

I'm definitely some F PoLR though, and logical ego. I have a difficult time with people who are emotive or trying to get some feeling out of me all the time by playing with me, making comments, hugging, I'm actually rather disgusted and uncomfortable by that sort of thing, so I'd have a hard time believing I'm DS.

This kind of difficulties definitely are Fe-PoLR related. I can't really see an ENTp being disgusted by these kind of things most of the time. You beeing disgusted by Fe would be my educated guess.

Houston we have a problem.

I couldn't care less about business, money, and work-related accomplishments

Maybe we should attach Ni subtype to him like we once did?
Houston: Do as your conscience tells you. Don't ask us.

OK, thanks.

[717495]

I also have this thing, like repressed emotion, where I make different noises and voices at animals, like my dog, and I yell at him and talk funny to him because I'm bored, and I sometimes go crazy, but he's fine with it by now. And sometimes if I'm alone with my friend, I might yell things at the neighborhood because we're goofing off. Sometimes he tells me to stop, sometimes he thinks its hilarious and I feel like we're doing better with one another because he's having fun and I get to be spontaneous and let loose a bit, it's like that impulse when you're really feeling good and no one is stopping you from doing something silly because they're close to you and you feel comfortable around them. But around people its totally different. I'm emotionally reserved, and I would feel really awkward if I did something like that, and basically any kind of observable communicable emotional involvement I'm just not there, along with most internal feeling. There's often a quite different mindset going around with us, and I've been best friends with him since 1st grade. He's usually very turned on by emotions, and I'm not at all. He might have gradually influenced me to do it because I'm more spontaneous and free and I naturally would do something different, to make him happier so he could have more fun.

Edit: but I'm only really spontaneous when I'm by myself, rarely, and I rarely do that kind of stuff. It's just what I do sometimes I guess. It helps let out my suppressed feelings. Am I honest with myself about it? Yes.

[CILi]

IDK, people on here don't seem to think ILIs exist and tell me I couldn't be one. I relate most to ILI descriptions...except when they say ILIs are great forecasters, and that they care about business, money, and work-related accomplishments.

Given how most ILI descriptions focus on the time/forecast/prediction stuff, I'd kinda hope ILIs don't exist either. Always makes me think of those wack-job, nut-case "It's The End Of The World!!!" conspiracy theory folk, or something.

As for the disinterest in biz/money/work, should descriptions really generalize a whole type's interests? Maybe I'm off, but I thought info-metabolism was more about how we think than a rigid, specific what we think about.

I have a difficult time with people who are emotive or trying to get some feeling out of me all the time by playing with me, making comments, hugging, I'm actually rather disgusted and uncomfortable by that sort of thing...

A couple weeks back when I mentioned my first opinions of you (i.e. that you're the neighborhood critic, cynic, etc.), I think this dynamic is what I was noticing in your posts.

When certain people flood a thread with over-the-top Fe, you'll sometimes interject a very curt, emotionally cold reply that quickly negates whatever kind of effect they were trying to have on others. FWIW, I really like that you do it; but I guess it suggests your Fe-disgust might be a pretty driving force.

(P.S. - ILE, ILI, or whatever, I'll like you either way.)

[Azeroffs]

Te and business/work/money are overemphasized. Te focuses on how things work and doing things correctly based on external/measurable criteria. Money is often a good measure, but it's not the only measure. It's better to think of it as resources rather than money. Making the most out of the resources you have or having the best effect on the material world in general.

Te notes how the world works and through that how it can be made to work better.

[717495]

Given how most ILI descriptions focus on the time/forecast/prediction stuff, I'd kinda hope ILIs don't exist either. Always makes me think of those wack-job, nut-case "It's The End Of The World!!!" conspiracy theory folk, or something.

As for the disinterest in biz/money/work, should descriptions really generalize a whole type's interests? Maybe I'm off, but I thought info-metabolism was more about how we think than a rigid, specific what we think about.

Yeah that's pretty much true I presume, but it doesn't stop me from hearing about it and being uncertain because of someone else's mistake or my own inconsistencies in weighing out the truth. I've tried to get a hold on the essence of the IMs, but there's a lot of facts people throw out there I have to question, if you know what I mean?

This kind of difficulties definitely are Fe-PoLR related. I can't really see an ENTp being discusted by these kind of things most of the time. You beeing disgusted by Fe would be my educated guess.

A couple weeks back when I mentioned my first opinions of you (i.e. that you're the neighborhood critic, cynic, etc.), I think this dynamic is what I was noticing in your posts.

When certain people flood a thread with over-the-top Fe, you'll sometimes interject a very curt, emotionally cold reply that quickly negates whatever kind of effect they were trying to have on others. FWIW, I really like that you do it; but I guess it suggests your Fe-disgust might be a pretty driving force.

(P.S. - ILE, ILI, or whatever, I'll like you either way.)

Ah yes. I'm surprised anyone notices this with me actually. Thanks for noticing.

and you seem like a great person to chat with on here too.

Te and business/work/money are overemphasized. Te focuses on how things work and doing things correctly based on external/measurable criteria. Money is often a good measure, but it's not the only measure. It's better to think of it as resources rather than money. Making the most out of the resources you have or having the best effect on the material world in general.

Te notes how the world works and through that how it can be made to work better.

I've had trouble knowing the real difference between Ti and Te and even what to make of the descriptions, but I feel like with me I just want the straight factual answer, I want it to be simple, is it or is it not, and what are we/you going to do about it, what's going to happen? I don't want to read the lengthy explanations and logistics, I just want the answers. Now I am curious to know how something works, but I don't normally search for myself. I go to someone who can explain it and give me the various answers I need, so then I can use it. If someone can do the depth of study and have a working system, I will then feel obligated to try to use it. And I feel like I search a lot for answers and am not concerned as much with the complex technical processes of how something works, as much as I'd rather see it work in front of me, and trial and error to get it to work, rather than studying from the book. It's just not that interesting to me if its a bunch of numbers and codes with no practical form. Do you think that correlates?

[Skeptic]

When I self typed ILI I found a number of ways to justify 'work/money' with ILI. It is easiest with ILI because they actually are much less practically focused, especially with an Ni subtype. The Te seems to be described mostly as a service to their Ni.

edit; also, do you realize the way you're describing yourself is pretty much exactly what's written about the ILI? Is that the way you want to come off? If what you've written in this topic is completely true to you, you are almost certainly ILI.

[The Exception]

I'm definitely some F PoLR though, and logical ego.

This week, yes. Next week, I predict you'll be back to EII-Ne.

[Azeroffs]

I've had trouble knowing the real difference between Ti and Te

I still do to.

and even what to make of the descriptions, but I feel like with me I just want the straight factual answer, I want it to be simple, is it or is it not, and what are we/you going to do about it, what's going to happen? I don't want to read the lengthy explanations and logistics, I just want the answers. Now I am curious to know how something works, but I don't normally search for myself. I go to someone who can explain it and give me the various answers I need, so then I can use it. If someone can do the depth of study and have a working system, I will then feel obligated to try to use it. And I feel like I search a lot for answers and am not concerned as much with the complex technical processes of how something works, as much as I'd rather see it work in front of me, and trial and error to get it to work, rather than studying from the book. It's just not that interesting to me if its a bunch of numbers and codes with no practical form. Do you think that correlates?

fwiw, I relate, but I wouldn't jump to any conclusion that it's type related because I would think that that's typical of most people. Maybe a Ti type can shed some light.

edit; also, do you realize the way you're describing yourself is pretty much exactly what's written about the ILI? Is that the way you want to come off? If what you've written in this topic is completely true to you, you are almost certainly ILI.

agreed

[717495]

edit; also, do you realize the way you're describing yourself is pretty much exactly what's written about the ILI? Is that the way you want to come off? If what you've written in this topic is completely true to you, you are almost certainly ILI.

Everything I said was true. As much as I wanted the OP to be a general topic, I think it was quickly resolved and on to my type, to where I wanted to portray as accurate as possible information about myself.

This week, yes. Next week, I predict you'll be back to EII-Ne.

There are always different ways of looking at it. I still find it odd that other people are ultimately sure of their type with all the contradictory information going around about the theory.

Te and business/work/money are overemphasized. Te focuses on how things work and doing things correctly based on external/measurable criteria. Money is often a good measure, but it's not the only measure. It's better to think of it as resources rather than money. Making the most out of the resources you have or having the best effect on the material world in general.

Te notes how the world works and through that how it can be made to work better.

Well if you'd like, you can give me some examples of what you mean, of people in action using Ti and Te, videos of famous people or something. As much as we say I sound very Fe-PoLR, your Te explanation isn't entirely clicking in place with me (I will do more research on it however). I can see how it might be, how there are things I criticize and say ie. "they should have done this in the movie instead, it would have been a more effective plot," (my sister telling me there's always something in a movie I want to change, I'm never happy with it) or "I should have bought that here instead of waiting to buy it here" every know and then, but I very lightly keep track of that stuff with perhaps not the greatest concern, and I don't have the "oh yes, now I get it and relate to it as my creative function" sense going on, also because I wouldn't know if it's really more Te or Ti. So I'm thinking once there is an example of Te that fits into my life, something I actually care about, then the explanation will make sense to me. But I do remember you once illustrated Te and Ti and I fit the Te explanation fairly well and thought it was very good, back when I typed myself ILI, but I don't know where that would be.

Edit: obviously your Ni explanation works well for me. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post706581

[Azeroffs]

Well if you'd like, you can give me some examples of what you mean, of people in action using Ti and Te, videos of famous people or something. As much as we say I sound very Fe-PoLR, your Te explanation isn't entirely clicking in place with me (I will do more research on it however). I can see how it might be, how there are things I criticize and say ie. "they should have done this in the movie instead, it would have been a more effective plot," (my sister telling me there's always something in a movie I want to change, I'm never happy with it) or "I should have bought that here instead of waiting to buy it here" every know and then, but I very lightly keep track of that stuff with perhaps not the greatest concern, and I don't have the "oh yes, now I get it and relate to it as my creative function" sense going on, also because I wouldn't know if it's really more Te or Ti. So I'm thinking once there is an example of Te that fits into my life, something I actually care about, then the explanation will make sense to me. But I do remember you once illustrated Te and Ti and I fit the Te explanation fairly well and thought it was very good, back when I typed myself ILI, but I don't know where that would be.

Edit: obviously your Ni explanation works well for me. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post706581

I don't have any hard examples I could give. I think comparing yourself to real life examples is iffy anyway because it's not clear how descriptions really translate into real life, and there's too much room for interpretation for my taste. (e.g)Stan might be Te. Joe might be the same type as Stan. Things just progressively become less and less clear, and just establishing 'Stan is Te' is unclear enough.

I'm really not sure that you're Fe-Polr, I've gone back and forth with you.. What you described seems like a best fit for Fe-Polr. The best advice I could give is to fully understand what Fe-PoLR means, and don't forget that Fe-PoLR is synonymous with Te-Creative. By that I mean that you won't truly understand Fe-PoLR unless you also understand Te-creative. Also, try to establish some things that you really know about yourself and give weight according to certainty. Also sometimes the answer isn't in the details (what is Te-creative?) but in the whole (What is ILI?). Know that you wont relate to everything described about any type, and just go with a best fit. Another good thing to keep in mind is something to this effect: "If I'm X type then socionics would lose all coherence." Think of what it would mean to be a certain type. If you're an alpha, what must gammas be like? If you're a gamma, what must alphas be like? Are alphas or gammas like me? Do I like gammas or alphas?

Idk, if that's any help. I'm sure you already knew a lot of what I said, but sometimes it's nice when someone brings everything back into perspective.

/pretentious advice

So I'm thinking once there is an example of Te that fits into my life, something I actually care about, then the explanation will make sense to me.

I used to struggle with wanting that 'aha!' feeling for a long time. I've accepted that it will never come, and I will forever have a feeling of doubt. The closest I came to a good click with Te is when I read Jung's description of it. If you haven't read it, I suggest you do.

I'm still working on Eyes of the Base rational edition. If I'm ever satisfied with it, maybe it'll help. It sounds like BS right now.

[Azeroffs]

Oh just another thought. Imo, people will show a lot of characteristics associated with their demonstrative, so focusing on Ne vs Ni would probably be what you should be focusing on rather than Te vs Ti.

[Simon Ssmall]

There are always different ways of looking at it. I still find it odd that other people are ultimately sure of their type with all the contradictory information going around about the theory.

Types that usually jump up and down with different self-types are mostly Irrational types. At least for me it seems to be a safe bet when typing people.

[Simon Ssmall]

I think ENTps are able to fit this profile pretty well, because they're Fi-PoLR so they're not really concerned with maintaining communication or keeping a close eye on connectivity, or caring much when something else comes up and there's a disconnect. Then especially the fact that they're static types and need to focus more on their thoughts, and Si-valuing they're not-decisive types, so they're naturally more relaxed and aren't of the mindset that they need to do something right away. I can picture more extroverted ENTps who talk a lot maybe going overboard and getting on my nerves, but they're pretty socially-conscious people because of Fe, they're just not always very interested in the social aspect, which is why I think they don't typically seem that extroverted, and are usually good at blending in by kind of fading out in to their head.

What do you think?

ENTp's I know are quite sociable and aproachable. They can be harsh with their words as they just disregard who do they talk to. They can also be nerdy and seem outlandish but overall they are quite friendly. They dont seem typically extroverted but it is easier to notice that if you can find out their hobbies, usually they have quite a few and they dont mind to include others into them, I guess they even prefer that (might be wrong on that one). Anyway to sum up ENTp's I know do care about emotional imput if they dont disrespect you or are not feeling akward themselves.

[717495]

The best advice I could give is to fully understand what Fe-PoLR means, and don't forget that Fe-PoLR is synonymous with Te-Creative. By that I mean that you won't truly understand Fe-PoLR unless you also understand Te-creative. Also, try to establish some things that you really know about yourself and give weight according to certainty. Also sometimes the answer isn't in the details (what is Te-creative?) but in the whole (What is ILI?). Know that you wont relate to everything described about any type, and just go with a best fit.

Yes, the concepts can be kind of hard to grasp, because they at times contradict each other and go different ways. But as far as the most objective theoretical approach I can find is within type descriptions, where basically ILI is first most likely, and ILE is actually second most likely. And when you get to trimming it down to simple statements, oftentimes Ni and Te start seeming much more foreign to me. Like I said most of the stuff it says about ILIs fits me (the bigger picture of the description so to speak) except if it were to summarize at the end by saying "overall great businessman, good and planning and forecasting." The ILE one often sounds too full of ideas and interests, active, open and aware, opportunistic, "the seeker" more or less, where as the ILI ones are almost right there, just a few more tweaks. So I see what the benefit is of ignoring some information that doesn't quite fit you. I often see some unofficial descriptions getting either really unfitting, or right on the money.

I'm still working on Eyes of the Base rational edition. If I'm ever satisfied with it, maybe it'll help. It sounds like BS right now.

Well I don't know what the complaints are about. It sounded quite right to me. If those people don't fit into those, maybe they'll fit one of the rational ones.

Another good thing to keep in mind is something to this effect: "If I'm X type then socionics would lose all coherence." Think of what it would mean to be a certain type. If you're an alpha, what must gammas be like? If you're a gamma, what must alphas be like? Are alphas or gammas like me? Do I like gammas or alphas?

Idk, if that's any help. I'm sure you already knew a lot of what I said, but sometimes it's nice when someone brings everything back into perspective.

Yes I often think about that, and ask people's opinions on that, who typically have trouble giving them. I thought of something a few hours ago, but didn't write it down, so I'm going to try to rephrase it the best I can, abeit probably off from the original plan:

Alphas: likes to be playful, witty, but also seem more light,
indirect, to where there's mainly only innocent offense
Betas: playful, can be more rough, harsh, direct, messing with people, testing emotions, light-hearted but not necessarily "light"
Deltas: mainly calm/serious, polite, thinking is usually more free/explorative than Gammas
Gammas: mainly calm/serious, but sometimes might not seem as polite because they (at least to me) can be more frank and impulsive (? not sure)

(But all in all, obviously I don't have a firm grasp of the for certain differences yet. So this is just a simple starting draft that will likely never be good enough.)

I used to struggle with wanting that 'aha!' feeling for a long time. I've accepted that it will never come, and I will forever have a feeling of doubt.

Yes I sometimes have to create my own, really searching myself, it can be a necessity.

The closest I came to a good click with Te is when I read Jung's description of it. If you haven't read it, I suggest you do.

I read it, along with the others, but it is mainly dominant Te seeming, at least, if not completely correlative to Socionics. And I did relate to it, despite not fitting his extroverted mindset myself. There are also parts of the introverted thinker I related to, as well as the introverted feeler. I actually related a lot to the introverted sensor, which seems somewhat irrelevant to Socionics Si. The introverted intuiter seemed relateable upon reading, but then I read the introduction before the title, and it kind of confused me and set me off from it a bit. Wikisocion IM descriptions on the other hand have a pretty much similar affect to what I've read via descriptions, being that I mostly relate to ILI, Ni dominant, Te creative, Fe-PoLR etc.

Oh just another thought. Imo, people will show a lot of characteristics associated with their demonstrative, so focusing on Ne vs Ni would probably be what you should be focusing on rather than Te vs Ti.

Thanks for your help.

ENTp's I know are quite sociable and aproachable. They can be harsh with their words as they just disregard who do they talk to. They can also be nerdy and seem outlandish but overall they are quite friendly. They dont seem typically extroverted but it is easier to notice that if you can find out their hobbies, usually they have quite a few and they dont mind to include others into them, I guess they even prefer that (might be wrong on that one). Anyway to sum up ENTp's I know do care about emotional imput if they dont disrespect you or are not feeling akward themselves.

Ah yes. I actually don't seem extroverted in my interests or activities either, so I think you have another valid point, in that it's pretty hard to correlate me to being extroverted. Everything I can currently think about being introverted fits me (of which I've read on Socionics I vs E descriptions). The big question was if it was really correct, if it accurately portrayed the meaning of Socionics object-focused, if there is more to the puzzle. I certainly will think on how much I really care about emotional input, or if its meaningless to me. Thanks. Sometimes I feel like I need to access my feelings, I need to have this personal connection to someone or something, like an internal emotional spirit that guides me through my feelings, exploring the depths of them, without sharing anything or being the playful infective type.

[pianosinger]

Edit: but I'm only really spontaneous when I'm by myself, rarely, and I rarely do that kind of stuff. It's just what I do sometimes I guess. It helps let out my suppressed feelings. Am I honest with myself about it? Yes.

You say you rarely do spontaneous, random stuff. But, how often do you think about being spontaneous and random? I hope I'm making sense...

A fellow IEE pointed out to me, that for the Ne base, it is our psyche that is extraverted and playful. That is, in our minds we often think about new and sensational ways to interact with our environment, but we may rarely follow through with those impulses for one reason or another (people would look at us funny, or we can foresee possible adverse effects, whatever). But the point is, we have those sorts of thoughts a lot, and they often seem to come out of nowhere. Is your seeming spontaneity deliberate and thought-out (more likely indicative of an introverted type), or are you more impulsive when acting in a spontaneous, fun way (more extraverted)?

Or maybe I'm just totally off-base on all of this, but, it makes sense to me, anway...

[717495]

I wouldn't call my spontaneity that thought-out, whatever that means (although you seem to be correlating thought-out with Ne too, since you might be saying that Ne types think of things to do but don't do them right away). Deliberate seems to be the right word for me, if I'm really in the mood and there's nothing stopping me from acting that way, I think of doing something, and think of how much of it I should do and limit myself, not to go too crazy. I don't live my life by spontaneity and randomness. I'm trying to think of what you could mean by that, or what the connection is with Ne and Ni...

I can have silly ideas, like "what if this happened" or "you should totally do this, that would be funny," but I don't consider those my typical thoughts. With the right people, say if I'm with someone who values those kinds of thoughts and has developed their sense into something more witty, like someone who I think is Ne ego my friend, we're actually good at coming together and providing new insights and ideas for his movies or various events, sometimes they're silly and that's exactly what he is looking for, or sometimes he's looking for something more meaningful and I'm able to kind of play with ideas as they come up. What I have noticed is his ideas often come from our direct surroundings, like he'll see something and I'll usually pass up what's going on outside, where as he can be rather surprised at my randomness, such as "where did that come from?" It had nothing to do with what we were talking about or what was going on, I just pulled it from my head. And I pull thoughts and ideas from my head usually, if there's nothing there I don't really try to get ideas from around me. Actually I think I almost rely on Se more at times because I'm more direct, such as "hey look at that guy" and his response is "What?" and me "I just thought my own impression of him was funny." but there might not really be something that funny on the outside, its often what's in my imagination, where as his jokes (and ideas) have a more definite connection, or there's something apparent about someone that is funny (and I tend to ignore apparent things). He seems to connect things in a more witty way that can be understood, I'm more imaginative (and with that guy I sort of had something in mind for him I couldn't explain) and it's great when people understand what I'm saying without me having to explain it, like my other friend we have this limited communication that works, that isn't formed around new ideas that have to be explained, its this esoteric intelligence we share. (Don't get me wrong though, I usually don't rely on the outside. My imagination is cut off from the outside influence.) But if the first guy is in that mood, I can play along and its rather fun hanging out coming up with ideas, looking to the future of the project. So I would at least consider it a strength, whatever it is. We are both rather creative people, though he shows it more.

[Azeroffs]

What would you say to an LIE typing? Have you ever considered it? I noticed you've typed as all the other NTs at some point.

(maybe you should make another type thread. )

[717495]

Yeah well, whatever I guess. At least I have limited myself down to a couple options.

[Azeroffs]

I didn't say that to mock you. I really want to know why you haven't considered LIE.

[717495]

I guess I don't really see myself relating to being dominant Te. Descriptions of the type don't really fit that well (as far as I know), and I've been known to play the ultimate perceiver card where people could never tell what my judging function was, even if I had some idea of it. ILE instead of LIE has had more correlation with being in their heads and introverted, lost in their own world and not paying attention. Though I still might not really understand Ne completely. LIE has seemed the least likely of the NTs based on this EJness that I could never find myself relating to, always related mostly to the description of IPness, and also considering the idea of ILI because dominant Te and creative Te are explained differently at different energy levels, serving Ni-dominant, Ni being something I seemingly relate to. I also feel stronger in Si than I do Se. In other news, I've never related to an Fe description. I once typed myself IEI because I though that Te-PoLR was the same thing as laziness. Additionally, a large reason why I considered EII was because of Fe-ignoring and relating to Jung's Fi description. But all of that's in the past, I thought it through and decided it was rather unlikely. NT is by far the best call, because I relate to no descriptions of S types, and I relate to no descriptions of ethical types. Only the N parts of INF descriptions--definitely relate to the T parts and F and S weakness parts of NT descriptions.

What makes you question if I might be LIE? Is it just an idea, or was it something I said?

[Azeroffs]

I guess I don't really see myself relating to being dominant Te. Descriptions of the type don't really fit that well (as far as I know), and I've been known to play the ultimate perceiver card where people could never tell what my judging function was, even if I had some idea of it. ILE instead of LIE has had more correlation with being in their heads and introverted, lost in their own world and not paying attention. Though I still might not really understand Ne completely. LIE has seemed the least likely of the NTs based on this EJness that I could never find myself relating to, always related mostly to the description of IPness, and also considering the idea of ILI because dominant Te and creative Te are explained differently at different energy levels, serving Ni-dominant, Ni being something I seemingly relate to. In other news, I've never related to an Fe description. I once typed myself IEI because I though that Te-PoLR was the same thing as laziness. Additionally, a large reason why I considered EII was because of Fe-ignoring and relating to Jung's Fi description. But all of that's in the past, I thought it through and decided it was rather unlikely. NT is by far the best call, because I relate to no descriptions of S types, and I relate to no descriptions of ethical types. Only the N parts of INF descriptions--definitely relate to the T parts of NT descriptions.

What makes you question if I might be LIE? Is it just an idea, or was it something I said?

You seem to describe Fe-PoLR and you relate to Ni, but tbh, in the past Fe-PoLR just doesn't seem to fit. Basically, what I described about stevENTJ also applies to you to some degree. I see you as even more playful and odd though in a.. I guess.. Fe kind of way. Which is why I thought you were probably alpha back when. I don't particularly see LIE for you, but I do see someone who described weak and devalued Fe very well and who comes across to me as someone who probably doesn't have 1d-Fe.

[717495]

Yes, well as you know I've typed myself ILI in the past because of all the associations made in this thread, and then some. I wouldn't call myself playful. I would call myself at times being creative and silly. I don't really understand the whole void of being this for any type. Isn't it a bit strange that Gamma is the only quadra people don't attribute a kind of young-at-heart immaturity to? If to call it Ne, instead of the direct association of Ne, so be it, though there must be some form of stereotyping going on at any point in time, lest the theory be concluded.

[Azeroffs]

Yes, well as you know I've typed myself ILI in the past because of all the associations made in this thread, and then some. I wouldn't call myself playful. I would call myself at times being creative and silly. I don't really understand the whole void of being this for any type. Isn't it a bit strange that Gamma is the only quadra people don't attribute a kind of young-at-heart immaturity to? If to call it Ne, instead of the direct association of Ne, so be it, though there must be some form of stereotyping going on at any point in time, lest the theory be concluded.

I think that when it comes down to it, gammas are pretty rugged, but they don't lack light-heartedness in the right situations. Well.. maybe the extroverts anyway.
Creative and silly sounds about right. I agree.
Fwiw, I'm the same. I'm a pretty odd fellow sometimes.. lol to say the least. You probably wouldn't know by interacting with me here.

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

[717495]

I did word it this way, with the intention that I don't really fit what I wrote about Alpha, I fit what I wrote for Gamma with an aversion to Alpha (especially Fe), yet I fit in being at times creative and silly:

Alphas: likes to be playful, witty, but also seem more light,
indirect, to where there's mainly only innocent offense
Betas: playful, can be more rough, harsh, direct, messing with people, testing emotions, light-hearted but not necessarily "light"
Deltas: mainly calm/serious, polite, thinking is usually more free/explorative than Gammas
Gammas: mainly calm/serious, but sometimes might not seem as polite because they (at least to me) can be more frank and impulsive (? not sure)

I am rather lazy and imaginative. I don't see given just the attribution to Ni, Te-creative, and Fe-PoLR why ILIs couldn't very well be creative, silly, and somewhat rather flimsy instead of rugged. But this is in fact the stereotype and should be respected upon concluding my type. It is such the stereotype, along with ILIs being business-oriented, more work-oriented, and not in to predicting the future, that I had trouble staying with being ILI.

I almost feel like its more of the average person who'd relate to the Gamma-stereotype, people who want to be seen as strong, tough, realistic real men. But what about the minority, the more thoughtful, weird and creative people? Are those all Alphas?

Also, I'm 21 years old.

Fwiw, I'm the same. I'm a pretty odd fellow sometimes.. lol to say the least. You probably wouldn't know by interacting with me here.

Interesting. I probably seem more extroverted and Fe-stereotype on here than I am in real life. I'm a fairly nice person, I just don't really show it how an Fe-user is said to show it, though perhaps an Fe-valuer. Don't know.

[Azeroffs]

I did word it this way, with the intention that I don't really fit what I wrote about Alpha, I fit Gamma with an aversion to Alpha, yet I fit in being at times creative and silly:

yeah, that seems right to me.

I am rather lazy and imaginative. I don't see given just the attribution to Ni, Te-creative, and Fe-PoLR why ILIs couldn't very well be creative, silly, and somewhat rather flimsy instead of rugged. But this is in fact the stereotype and should be respected upon concluding my type. It is such the stereotype, along with ILIs being business-oriented, more work-oriented, and not in to predicting the future, that I had trouble staying with being ILI.

Also, I'm 20 years old.

ILI aren't incapable of being silly and creative. Actually they can be really creative, but usually not in the way I think you mean. Te-creative, IMU, takes everything from mechanical point of view, and that's how they naturally interact with things. Te-base is the same, but more driven to interact and change things at will so they develop Fe as well to go with it. Te-creative are just at default observers, and the instances when they do interact, they make the judgment based on Te, mechanical effective factual changes. The nuances of interacting differently are strange and uncomfortable because the details of it just aren't a focus for them. Again, not impossible, but they're never able to really adapt to make it a natural part of how they do things. It's always forced, and so always a bit foreign.

I know there was a thread a while back called "LIE are lazier than you" or something like that. I really feel like expanding on that. I think LIE are driven to do things they see as creating a lasting or long term effect. If there isn't a lot to do as far as that, then they are content waiting. I think this is especially true when you're in school and there's really nothing important to do other than school, which really doesn't take much time at all. I'm 20 too. Most people consider me lazy, and I even make fun of myself that I'm not willing to do anything that requires a lot of effort. "Too much effort" is a common phrase for me. However, an opportunity came up for me to go into this internship that's supposedly really time consuming and I took it. To be honest I have no idea how I'm going to do, but I'm eager to find out how I'm going to handle it.

[silverchris9]

All of this sounds like obvious and basic Fe-polr + Ni-base. In other words, you're ILI. Why is there confusion?

[717495]

yeah, that seems right to me.



ILI aren't incapable of being silly and creative. Actually they can be really creative, but usually not in the way I think you mean. Te-creative, IMU, takes everything from mechanical point of view, and that's how they naturally interact with things. Te-base is the same, but more driven to interact and change things at will so they develop Fe as well to go with it. Te-creative are just at default observers, and the instances when they do interact, they make the judgment based on Te, mechanical effective factual changes. The nuances of interacting differently are strange and uncomfortable because the details of it just aren't a focus for them. Again, not impossible, but they're never able to really adapt to make it a natural part of how they do things. It's always forced, and so always a bit foreign.

Well I can definitely relate to that, being creative in that sense. I'm a musician/composer and I find it to be a mechanically creative process, one that dominates exploring my imagination and methods of getting from one place to another. The thing is I don't really have a lot of mechanic interests. Like what would there be for me to care about, lost in my imaginative world? Mostly it's me thinking about this inner world I create for myself and reflecting on life events/impressions, and I consider the T part a secondary interest/application, when N fails to suit me. For instance in Socionics I think about the different categories which go in to someone being a type, and instead of finding the logic to fit them in, I think of ways to change the theory so it makes more sense and is more effective. I think if I had a larger zone of interests, like a typical extrovert, I might be inclined to think more about mechanics and logistics, but its just not always that interesting. I even find topics Alpha NTs explore and talk about the mechanics rather uninteresting as well. It might be more personal-unrelated. Also, not sure what you mean by the last three sentences.

I know there was a thread a while back called "LIE are lazier than you" or something like that. I really feel like expanding on that. I think LIE are driven to do things they see as creating a lasting or long term effect. If there isn't a lot to do as far as that, then they are content waiting. I think this is especially true when you're in school and there's really nothing important to do other than school, which really doesn't take much time at all. I'm 20 too. Most people consider me lazy, and I even make fun of myself that I'm not willing to do anything that requires a lot of effort. "Too much effort" is a common phrase for me. However, an opportunity came up for me to go into this internship that's supposedly really time consuming and I took it. To be honest I have no idea how I'm going to do, but I'm eager to find out how I'm going to handle it.

Ah, I hope that goes well. In school when there's nothing to do, I used to write down theoretical ideas, draw, create maps, places and characters. Zone out of reality and live in a different world. Sometimes it was exciting to think about. I also did architecture, and in my earlier days wanted to become an architect for many years.

All of this sounds like obvious and basic Fe-polr + Ni-base. In other words, you're ILI. Why is there confusion?

Perhaps the Ni + Fe-PoLR, and being more creative and weird, with some trouble grasping the Te part, might make more sense for a strong Ni subtype?

[Azeroffs]

Well I can definitely relate to that, being creative in that sense. I'm a musician/composer and I find it to be a mechanically creative process, one that dominates exploring my imagination and methods of getting from one place to another. The thing is I don't really have a lot of mechanic interests. Like what would there be for me to care about, lost in my imaginative and NT world? I think if I had a larger zone of interests, like a typical extrovert, I might be inclined to think more about mechanics and logistics, but its just not very interesting. Also, not sure what you mean by the last three sentences.

It's not usually mechanical in the physical sense though for gamma NTs. By mechanical, I just mean impersonal. Like the way they do things is clear, straight forward, logical, and approaching it as if it had no sentimental value. Like it's just a machine. Not that they have no sentimental value for things, that's just how they approach things.

The nuances of interacting differently are strange and uncomfortable because the details of it just aren't a focus for them. Again, not impossible, but they're never able to really adapt to make it a natural part of how they do things. It's always forced, and so always a bit foreign.

Someone who is only accustomed to interacting with things as above will find it odd and uncomfortable to act silly or emotional in any way, but maybe I'm just expanding it beyond what it really is.

Maybe I'd just have to see what you mean by silly.

[Azeroffs]

Ah, I hope that goes well. In school when there's nothing to do, I used to write down theoretical ideas, draw, create maps, places and characters. Zone out of reality and live in a different world. Sometimes it was exciting to think about. I also did architecture, and in my earlier days wanted to become an architect for many years.

When I was in elementary school I used to walk around this tree and imagine characters fighting, and I'd even use my hands to help picture it in my mind. But when I did it, I literally was completely shut out to what was going on around me. I didn't see my hands, I saw what my hands were representing in my mind. I used to use MSpaint to create little wars with dots to represent people or explosions and lines to represent beams or circles for shields, etc. Needless to say, a lot of kids thought I was weird, but I actually made some friends that like to play pretend.

My dad recently told me that my principal suggested he do something about me. Thankfully, my dad didn't think anything of it, and thought she was overreacting.

[717495]

It's not usually mechanical in the physical sense though for gamma NTs. By mechanical, I just mean impersonal. Like the way they do things is clear, straight forward, logical, and approaching it as if it had no sentimental value. Like it's just a machine. Not that they have no sentimental value for things, that's just how they approach things.

Hmm. I do relate to being logical over guided by feelings, but my feelings and sentiments are still there and lightly attached to most things I do, even I think when I'm not conscious of it. They come about greater sometimes and I sometimes make decisions with my feelings too. They never seem to come out externally and I'm careful about that, and no one ever knows they're there, unless they know me well or are intelligent about people. I remember one time on this forum I explained how I found a movie sad and I cried afterward, and the old resident ILI Warlord told me I wasn't an ILI, and I essentially thought that he was either lying and covering up that he had emotions due to some manly-complex, or he wasn't human. All humans have feelings and attach them to what they do, its best to be honest about it.

Someone who is only accustomed to interacting with things as above will find it odd and uncomfortable to act silly or emotional in any way, but maybe I'm just expanding it beyond what it really is.

Maybe I'd just have to see what you mean by silly.

Perhaps this is a good example of be being silly http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post706595

I find myself having a difficult time acting in an emotional way, to fit in with people. I'm usually just very disgusted by people's attempts to draw me into this sort of participation of feelings.

When I was in elementary school I used to walk around this tree and imagine characters fighting, and I'd even use my hands to help picture it in my mind. But when I did it, I literally was completely shut out to what was going on around me. I didn't see my hands, I saw what my hands were representing in my mind. I used to use MSpaint to create little wars with dots to represent people or explosions and lines to represent beams or circles for shields, etc. Needless to say, a lot of kids thought I was weird, but I actually made some friends that like to play pretend.

My dad recently told me that my principal suggested he do something about me. Thankfully, my dad didn't think anything of it, and thought she was overreacting.

Oh awesome, I definitely relate. My best friend and I played pretend all the time, up until we might have been a bit too old for it even, and it was due to my influence of wanting to. I would sometimes spend much too long on the initial phases of creating and thinking about what was going to happen, and where everything was located, that we sometimes would get less play time, and every new day we were on to a new story. I am probably easily able to act somewhat emotionally in one or two imaginative roles, like I'm someone else, because I can be in to characters and open-minded in supporting their different personalities, but in real life it doesn't really happen. I would never find a reason to change myself, and it would be difficult because real life is so serious and I'm a serious person.

[Azeroffs]

Hmm. I do relate to being logical over guided by feelings, but my feelings and sentiments are still there and lightly attached to most things I do, even I think when I'm not conscious of it. They come about greater sometimes and I sometimes make decisions with my feelings too. They never seem to come out externally and I'm careful about that, and no one ever knows they're there, unless they know me well or are intelligent about people. I remember one time on this forum I explained how I found a movie sad and I cried afterward, and the old resident ILI Warlord told me I wasn't an ILI, and I essentially thought that he was either lying and covering up that he had emotions due to some manly-complex, or he wasn't human. All humans have feelings and attach them to what they do, it's essential to the human brain's complex. its best to be honest about it.

lol Fe-PoLRs can cry.

Perhaps this is a good example of be being silly http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post706595

I find myself having a difficult time acting in an emotional way, to fit in with people. I'm usually just very disgusted by people's attempts to draw me into a participation of showing and exchanging feelings and emotions.

lol, well yeah that's not Fe-silliness.

Yeah, idk. ILI definitely seems like the best fit out of any type you've considered yourself to be.

Holy shit.. Im late for a comedy show..

[717495]

A comedy show eh? Sounds fun. Thanks for the help, I'll try to keep thinking about it.

[717495]

I think I've found a stereotype that I fit, from the TV show Survivor, who is a possible ILI. Anonymous guy on the tribe is silent and thoughtful, he's nice and shows politeness, but sometimes has the impression of being a bit closed-off from what's going on around him, sometimes like he's channeling his mind into another dimension, but especially in the sense that he's not that empathetic or emotionally aware. But still he holds his tribe in high regards and has his own special relations with individuals. He very much dislikes getting on any bad sides and when he has the chance tries to make peace with each person. He finds those relationships essential in the game, not the warm-spiritedness and morale livening of others. They win the next challenge, and he is barely excited on the inside, nevertheless exhausted. He has no emotional comradery, he doesn't share a happy celebration with the team, he barely would cheer or hug, already causing him an annoying loss of concentration, though he demands a just respect despite. He is happy that they are happy, and he tries to let his peace be known (due to this game's strategy, wanting to be respected furthermore allowing him to stay in the game) though he perceives that some people probably find him fake and selfish despite his attempts to act personable. Instead of building on the group morale, he's thinking of the days to come and where he fits in to the grander scheme, plotting the mechanics, seeing the people move as chess pieces. He's an independent leader. Is there hope for himself? He both knows and doubts. He shows no pride, and always seems to have the mindset that he's getting voted off next (which can be fairly common in the game anyway).

Now I'm not a huge strategic thinker in my daily life, but when it comes to such an inevitable involvement in an event like this one, there is little reason I wouldn't fit this stereotype. If x much is true of myself now, the rest of this would fall in to place.

[Azeroffs]

Sorry to cut off like that, but yeah I think ILI is a pretty clear fit. Considering everything in this thread, I'd be confident in typing you ILI and a merry extrovert would be a major stretch.

[pianosinger]

I wouldn't call my spontaneity that thought-out, whatever that means (although you seem to be correlating thought-out with Ne too, since you might be saying that Ne types think of things to do but don't do them right away). Deliberate seems to be the right word for me, if I'm really in the mood and there's nothing stopping me from acting that way, I think of doing something, and think of how much of it I should do and limit myself, not to go too crazy. I don't live my life by spontaneity and randomness. I'm trying to think of what you could mean by that, or what the connection is with Ne and Ni...
.

I don't really know, either...just thinking out loud, I guess...

I don't really live by spontaneity, either. At least, not on the outside. My thoughts, on the other hand, can be all over the place. idk. I guess it makes sense that INPs and ENPs would be kinda similar in that way...Like, my ILI and I both tend to have these outwardly random thoughts that we'll sometimes share with each other; and while there's usually some sort of logical connection in our heads, once it's out, the other is wondering, "where did that come from?" DH especially is famous for chuckling randomly to himself, when he suddenly recalls a scene from a movie he watched seven years ago, or whatever. But then if I ask him why he's chuckling, he then has to go off on this long explanation which I'd better be prepared to listen to...sometimes I end up chuckling right along, and then other times, at the end of the story, I end up looking at him like, "yeah? so?"