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Thread: Most badass fictional character of each type

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Default Most badass fictional character of each type

    Alpha Quadra

    ESE: Captain Jack Harkness (Doctor Who)
    SEI: Eric Draven (The Crow)
    ILE: Light Yagami (Death Note)
    LII: Spock (Star Trek)

    Beta Quadra

    EIE: John Simm's Master (Doctor Who)
    IEI: Johan Liebert (Monster)
    SLE: Captain Jack Sparrow (Pirates of the Caribbean)
    LSI: Lelouch Lamperouge (Code Geass)

    Gamma Quadra

    SEE: The Sixth Doctor (Doctor Who)
    ESI: Michael Westen (Burn Notice)
    LIE: Sauron (LoTR)
    ILI: L Lawliet (Death Note)

    Delta Quadra

    IEE: The Tenth Doctor (Doctor Who)
    EII: Patrick Jane (The Mentalist)
    LSE: Shuichi Aizawa (Death Note)
    SLI: Soichiro Yagami (Death Note)
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  2. #2
    Creepy-male

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    I'd go with Eleven for "badass ILE". I mean, come on. He's not allowed to be any other type. 'Specially not with the bow ties.

    EDIT

    Or even Doctor Quantum from What the #$*! Do We Know!?

    Perhaps a teeny bit of dual bias there

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I think Eleven is EIE, as are Two, Four, and Eight.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    I've heard of three of those.

    Why is Sauron LIE? Why not Saruman?

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
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    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Broken down by subtype:

    Alpha

    ESE-Fe: Captain Jack Harkness
    ESE-Si: Patrick Bateman (American Psycho)
    SEI-Fe: Eric Draven
    SEI-Si: Neville Longbottom (Harry Potter)
    ILE-Ne: Light Yagami
    ILE-Ti: Dr. Cal Lightman (Lie to Me)
    LII-Ne: Near (Death Note)
    LII-Ti: Spock

    Beta

    EIE-Fe: Simm's Master
    EIE-Ni: Dr. House (House)
    IEI-Fe: Willy Wonka (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)
    IEI-Ni: Johan Liebert
    SLE-Se: Mello (Death Note)
    SLE-Ti: Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
    LSI-Se: Heathcliff (Wuthering Heights)
    LSI-Ti: Lelouch Lamperouge

    Gamma

    SEE-Se: Six
    SEE-Fi: Nine
    ESI-Se: Michael Westen
    ESI-Fi: Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo)
    LIE-Te: Sauron
    LIE-Ni: Saruman

    Delta

    IEE-Ne: Ten
    IEE-Fi: James Wilson (House)
    EII-Ne: Patrick Jane
    EII-Fi: Itsuki Koizumi (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)
    LSE-Si: Pierce Brosnan's Bond
    SLI-Te: Soichiro Yagami
    SLI-Si: Daniel Craig's Bond

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I've heard of three of those.

    Why is Sauron LIE? Why not Saruman?
    Sauron showed a distinctively Te style of direction in THe Silmarillon, and he's a rather long-term thinker. That, and he probably doesn't pay attention to sensory pleasure or comfort being a... giant fiery eyeball of doom and all.

    As for why Sauron rather than Saruman, Sauron commands vast legions of doom and strikes fear into the hearts of his enemies despite being, well, nothing but a big fucking eyeball. If that's not badass I don't know what is.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    I think L is overrated as fuck, personally, but then again, I never watched a whole lot of Death Note to truly see the mass appeal.

    I would replace him with any of the following ILIs: Hiei (Yu Yu Hakusho), Killua (Hunter x Hunter), or Kirika Yuumura (Noir), though I would personally go Killua to Kirika to Hiei.

    Most badass SLE: Reinhard von Lohengramm from Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

    Most badass ESI: Tie between Cecil Harvey and Kurapica from Hunter x Hunter though I prefer Cecil (I realize people will debate Cecil's type, but I whatever).

    Most badass SEE: Tenjou Utena from Revolutionary Girl Utena even if she is dumb as a cart of bricks.
    I'm not exactly a big Anime fan, so I dont know any of those. Rest assured, however, I guarantee your ESI example is not more badass than the guy who made a trigger spring out of a fucking hairpin.
    Last edited by Aleksei; 10-15-2010 at 07:53 PM.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I think Eleven is EIE, as are Two, Four, and Eight.
    Eleven EIE? That's a curious typing, why do you think he's EIE?

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Sauron... his evolution is too archetypal and variable. I don't think his personality was explained in detail enough to type him beyond his "professional" activities, which is not relevant in itself.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

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    Alpha Quadra

    ESE: Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
    SEI: Saburo (Ran) ???
    ILE: Sanjuro (Yojimbo)
    LII: L (Death Note)

    Beta Quadra

    EIE: Alucard (Hellsing)
    IEI: Alucard (Castlevania)
    SLE: Duke Nukem (Duke Nukem)
    LSI: Lady Kaede (Ran)

    Gamma Quadra

    SEE: Gon (Hunter X Hunter) SLE
    ESI: Guts (Berserk) SLE
    LIE: Dark Schneider (Bastard!)
    ILI: Kakashi Hatake (Naruto) or Alex Row (Last Exile)

    Delta Quadra

    IEE: Vash the Stampede (Trigun)
    EII: Neo (The Matrix)
    LSE: Gladiator (Maximus)
    SLI: Max (Mad Max)
    Last edited by DividedsGhost; 12-08-2010 at 07:08 PM.

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    LII: Spock (Star Trek)
    Spock is boring. You gotta be able to do better than that.

    Saruman is a Ti type, by the way. No extroversion anywhere to be seen. IJ all the way. Not a whole lot of visible Se either for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post
    Alpha Quadra

    ESE: Lara Croft (Tomb Raider)
    SEI: Saburo (Ran) ???
    ILE: Sanjuro (Yojimbo)
    LII: L (Death Note)

    Beta Quadra

    EIE: Alucard (Hellsing)
    IEI: Alucard (Castlevania)
    SLE: Duke Nukem (Duke Nukem)
    LSI: Lady Kaede (Ran)

    Gamma Quadra

    SEE: Gon (Hunter X Hunter)
    ESI: Guts (Berserk)
    LIE: Dark Schneider (Bastard!)
    ILI: Kakashi Hatake (Naruto) or Alex Row (Last Exile)

    Delta Quadra

    IEE: Vash the Stampede (Trigun)
    EII: Neo (The Matrix)
    LSE: Gladiator (Maximus)
    SLI: Max (Mad Max)
    Lara Croft is almost certainly Beta ST. Alucard EIE is... fucking mind-blowing. What has he ever done to create an Fe atmosphere? He's LSE. Also, while you make a very good point on Vash, Neo is nowhere near as awesome as Jane.

    Updated list:

    Alpha

    ESE-Fe: Captain Jack Harkness (Doctor Who)
    ESE-Si: Patrick Bateman (American Psycho)
    SEI-Fe: Eric Draven (The Crow)
    SEI-Si: Anakin Skywalker (Star Wars)
    ILE-Ne: Light Yagami (Death Note)
    ILE-Ti: Dr. Cal Lightman (Lie to Me)
    LII-Ne: Near (Death Note)
    LII-Ti: Spock (Star Trek)

    Beta

    EIE-Fe: Simm's Master (Doctor Who)
    EIE-Ni: Dr. House (House)
    IEI-Fe: Willy Wonka (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)
    IEI-Ni: Johan Liebert (Monster)
    SLE-Se: Mello (Death Note)
    SLE-Ti: Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
    LSI-Se: Heathcliff (Wuthering Heights)
    LSI-Ti: Lelouch Lamperouge (Code Geass)

    Gamma

    SEE-Se: Sixth Doctor (Doctor Who)
    SEE-Fi: Ninth Doctor (Doctor Who)
    ESI-Se: Michael Westen (Burn Notice)
    ESI-Fi: Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo)
    LIE-Te: Sauron (LoTR)
    LIE-Ni: Saruman (LoTR)
    ILI-Te: L Lawliet (Death Note)
    ILI-Ni: River Tam (Firefly)

    Delta

    IEE-Ne: Tenth Doctor (Doctor Who)
    IEE-Fi: Vash the Stampede (Trigun)
    EII-Ne: Patrick Jane (The Mentalist)
    EII-Fi: Itsuki Koizumi (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)
    LSE-Te: Alucard (Hellsing)
    LSE-Si: Pierce Brosnan's Bond (James Bond)
    SLI-Te: Soichiro Yagami (Death Note)
    SLI-Si: Daniel Craig's Bond (James Bond)
    Last edited by Aleksei; 10-16-2010 at 02:50 AM.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Vizzini is the most badass ENTp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Lara Croft is almost certainly Beta ST. Alucard EIE is... fucking mind-blowing. What has he ever done to create an Fe atmosphere? He's LSE. Also, while you make a very good point on Vash, Neo is nowhere near as awesome as Jane.
    I'm not sure how you view the Information-Elements, and I don't want to derail your thread, but the reason I gave Alucard EIE is because he toyed with his enemies. Te efficiency was not a more primary concern. From that, he seemed more Fe+Ni over Fe+Si as well. He enjoyed fighting with his enemies and seemed to have a kind of Ni-creative vision about fighting that the ENTjs share. His lust for battle reminded me of Valhalla and King Leonidas from 300, who I confidently type ENFj. Why do you think LSE is a better typing? Here's a youtube link to show you what I'm talking about

    You might be right about Lara Croft. ESE was the last one for me to put a type in. I have a hard time even thinking of any fictional ESE characters, let alone a bad-ass one . I think I saw those movies a long while ago, so I don't remember them too well.

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Vizzini is the most badass ENTp.
    Inconceivable!
    Last edited by DividedsGhost; 10-16-2010 at 04:27 AM.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Most badass INTp: Hannibal Lecter

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    According to The 100 Greatest Movie Characters| 10. Vito Corleone | Empire | www.empireonline.com

    I'll add my typings

    10 Vito Corleone SLE
    9 Ellen Ripley ESI
    8 Captain Jack Sparrow ILE
    7 The Dude SEI
    6 Indiana Jones ILE
    5 Hannibal Lecter ILE
    4 Han Solo SLE
    3 The Joker ILE
    2 Darth Vader ILE
    1 Tyler Durden SLE
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    2 Darth Vader ILE
    Post impossible to take seriously.

    Hannibal Lecter hates ENTps. Just look at how he reacts to that ENTp prison warden in Silence of the Lambs.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Post impossible to take seriously


    Hannibal Lecter hates ENTps. Just look at how he reacts to that ENTp prison warden in Silence of the Lambs.
    I think that guy is LIE Ni. The guys who bring food to H. L. when he's about to escape his cell are ESIs and LSIs.
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    There is nothing about HL that remotely suggests he values Fe, let alone in as visible a way as in a HA function. There is very little that suggests extroversion. Seriously, ENTp is just about the worst typing you could come up with for him.

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    Oh Oh, I got one for ESE. Jade from Beyond Good and Evil.

    Edit: And I think Lara Croft from the video games is an ESE, although I don't really play them. So this is a guess from what little I've seen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divided View Post
    I'm not sure how you view the Information-Elements, and I don't want to derail your thread, but the reason I gave Alucard EIE is because he toyed with his enemies. Te efficiency was not a more primary concern. From that, he seemed more Fe+Ni over Fe+Si as well. He enjoyed fighting with his enemies and seemed to have a kind of Ni-creative vision about fighting that the ENTjs share. His lust for battle reminded me of Valhalla and King Leonidas from 300, who I confidently type ENFj. Why do you think LSE is a better typing? Here's a youtube link to show you what I'm talking about YouTube - Alucard in Action
    Alucard is very directive and commanding towards Seras, often laying out multi-step plans, aware of the stage he and the Hellsing Organization are in within the plan. He's also rather obsessed with technical details in a way only befitting a Logical function, with his long, drawn-out explanations of the functions of his weaponry. Explanations that... quite frankly sometimes kinda sound like audio erotica. Definite ego there. He does indeed like to toy with his prey, but the evidence itself weighs more heavily in favor of LSE - and if he were an E type, he'd be ESE rather than EIE.

    I do agree that King Leonidas was EIE, though.

    You might be right about Lara Croft. ESE was the last one for me to put a type in. I have a hard time even thinking of any fictional ESE characters, let alone a bad-ass one .
    ESEs abound in fiction. Badass ones aren't quite as common as badass EIEs, but they definitely exist. Some off the top of my head:

    Captain Jack Harkness
    Captain John Hart
    Patrick Bateman
    Alex DeLarge (Little Alex from the Clockwork Orange)
    Ladd Russo (Baccano).
    Last edited by Aleksei; 10-17-2010 at 12:17 AM.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    According to The 100 Greatest Movie Characters| 10. Vito Corleone | Empire | www.empireonline.com

    I'll add my typings

    10 Vito Corleone SLE
    9 Ellen Ripley ESI
    8 Captain Jack Sparrow ILE
    7 The Dude SEI
    6 Indiana Jones ILE
    5 Hannibal Lecter ILE
    4 Han Solo SLE
    3 The Joker ILE
    2 Darth Vader ILE
    1 Tyler Durden SLE
    Let's see...

    Vito: SEE. He had a very Fi-ish "I scratch your back you scratch mine" way of calling in favors.
    Saprrow: SLE. Favored immediate action and making a short-term impact, and didn't seem to be someone who considered future possibilities, contingencies or potential long-term paths. He pretty much just made shit up as he went along.
    Hannibal Lecter: ILI.
    The Joker: Lived to fuck with people's heads. EIE if ever I saw one.
    Darth Vader: LSI. ILE is about the most ridiculous typing for him I've seen so far. No offense.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Eleven EIE? That's a curious typing, why do you think he's EIE?
    Like most Doctors, he seemed to have a zany, Wonka-ish charm and an infectious love of fun.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    alpha:
    SEI = Leeloo (The Fifth Element), Harley Quinn (Batman) [i think jxrtes once typed Harley this and i agree]
    ILE = the Joker (Batman)
    LII = Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan (Watchmen), Arthur/The Point Man (Inception) [hkkmr typed Arthur LII and i have come to agree]

    beta:
    LSI = Bruce Wayne/Batman (Batman), King Leonidas (300)
    EIE = Alex (A Clockwork Orange) [someone else has suggested IEI]
    SLE = The Comedian (Watchmen)

    gamma:
    SEE = John Rambo (Rambo) [not my typing, but i think i've seen him typed that before and i could see it]
    ESI = Shosanna Dreyfus (Inglourious Basterds)
    LIE = Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias (Watchmen), Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) [Rufus could be EIE]

    delta:
    LSE = Harvey Dent/Two-Face (Batman), Colonel Hans Landa (Inglourious Basterds) [Landa's type may be debatable]
    SLI = the Mariner (Waterworld)
    Delta ST = Dexter Morgan (Dexter) [i think people usually type him LSI]

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    Leloo: I think ESI, though SEI is a good possibility.
    Joker: EIE
    Little Alex: definite Fe base, but I'm thinking more ESE.
    Landa was a definite EIE. He went quite far out of his way to fuck with people's heads.
    I think Dexter is LSI.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    The Dark Knight version of the Joker was unmistakably ENTp, imo.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    How so?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Leloo: I think ESI, though SEI is a good possibility.
    Joker: EIE
    Little Alex: definite Fe base, but I'm thinking more ESE.
    Landa was a definite EIE. He went quite far out of his way to fuck with people's heads.
    I think Dexter is LSI.
    Dexter (i've only seen up to the start of season 3 so far) i see as delta ST > LSI because i think he has superid . "The Code" that he was taught by his father, that he places so much importance on, is his guiding force; with it he knows the difference between right and wrong. he uses it to justify that his behavior is ethical; with it he can live peacefully, "normally", knowing that he is doing the "right" thing. The Code is his . also, his partner Rita i think is likely delta NF.

    the Joker - i had written an argument for his ILE-ness (in The Dark Knight, at least) a few years ago here. to me he is the embodiment of impersonal chaos. also, the only person who remains close to him (close as you can get to a psychopath like him, anyway) throughout the years is his dual Harley Quinn (SEI).

    for Leeloo, i am not extremely confident of the SEI typing but i did think she was ego (or at least ethical), being very emotionally demonstrative. she also seemed to easily set people at ease (iirc).

    i do see the argument for Landa as dominant, but i settled on LSE because yes, he does get to people emotionally, but he gets to them not so much because he his purposely manipulating their emotions, but because he always knows more than they do; they can't hide information from him. small details do not escape him. he is thorough and methodical, gathering every piece of information and evidence he needs before acting.

    this is taken from socionics.com ESTj profile description, it fits how i see Landa - the bolded in particular i think fits him well:
    When ESTjs interact with strangers they are always polite, educated and well mannered, observing the norms of etiquette. This is especially noticeable in men when they start a conversation with the opposite sex. ESTjs do not like small talk or gossiping neither do they like having long conversations on the phone. When talking on the telephone they will often sound slightly different. ESTjs do not like familiarity.

    ESTjs like to ask questions and find out facts. They do not accept foggy answers, demanding concrete data. They have an opinion about almost everything and will actively debate and defend it.
    Last edited by glam; 10-17-2010 at 05:24 AM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Like most Doctors, he seemed to have a zany, Wonka-ish charm and an infectious love of fun.
    That is not describing an EIE.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    the Joker - i had written an argument for his ILE-ness (in The Dark Knight, at least) a few years ago here. to me he is the embodiment of impersonal chaos. also, the only person who remains close to him (close as you can get to a psychopath like him, anyway) throughout the years is his dual Harley Quinn (SEI).
    See, the problem with your analysis is the Joker's sheer skill at producing Fe. Producing Fe is, indeed, all he ever does, in his own twisted way. He wreaks havok across Gotham to produce a city-wide environment conductive to, for lack of a better word, anarchy. And until the ESI Batman stops him, it looks like he's going to succeed in doing so. "Introduce a little anarchy... rattle the cages." is his motto.

    He also seems to value Ni infinitely more than Si. Si-superego certainly fits him, he puts himself in so many risky situations that he really doesn't seem to care for his own health or safety.

    Additionally, I think Harley Quinn is an IEI, and actually his mirror rather than his dual. They don't seem to have a very healthy relationship, but they do intellectually inspire each other through her love for him to blow shit up around Gotham and raise all sorts of hell.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  29. #29
    Dance Magic Dance CloudCuckooLander's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I agree that the Joker is some sort of Beta NF.
    2-subtype system: IEI-Fe
    8-subtype system: D-IEI-Fe
    16-subtype system: IEI-ESE

    IEI-Fe 2w3 > p6w5 > 8w7 sx/so

    "He who has felt the deepest grief is best able to experience supreme happiness. We must have felt what it is to die, that we may appreciate the enjoyments of living." - Edmond Dantes (The Count of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas père)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    He also seems to value Ni infinitely more than Si. Si-superego certainly fits him, he puts himself in so many risky situations that he really doesn't seem to care for his own health or safety.
    Yes, this might be a good analysis, except for the fact that he's insane. It's like trying to say "psychopaths are Fi-PoLR because they don't care about other people". Not at all. They don't care about other people because they're psychopaths.

  31. #31
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Yes, this might be a good analysis, except for the fact that he's insane. It's like trying to say "psychopaths are Fi-PoLR because they don't care about other people". Not at all. They don't care about other people because they're psychopaths.
    Well, type is merely an analytical tool corresponding to an inventory of personality traits. Since the Joker doesn't fit the ascribed profile of creative, he isn't creative -- whatever the reason.

    Not that it really matters. He's pretty clearly, as I demonstrated above, base (His whole raison d'etre is creating chaos), which means the options are ESE or EIE. Given that his insanity leads to a complete absence of any Si traits, and he does fit the profile of Ni-creative (He's a pretty long-term planner, especially in the Dark Knight), we can safely say he's EIE.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

  32. #32
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    Fe bases by definition are Rationals. There is no Rational who would go about sowing chaos and wreaking havoc. Not an EJ, not an IJ. In fact, look at his conflict with Batman, who is usually portrayed as an IJ. The Joker can be painted either as a trickster or as a force of destruction (also see Xellos from the Slayers anime), while Batman (when not being caricatured as a maniac vigilante consumed by his quest for vengeance) is a force of stability, seeking to restore order and quality of life to Gotham City.

    It's the battle between wild nature and civilisation, and one of the simplest conflicts in Socionics: IJ and EP.

    The other thing about the Joker (at least from The Killing Joke and Batman: The Animated Series) is that he's a force of wit and humour: especially in TKJ, he's the only character who's so detached from everything that he can call a spade a spade whe he very famously calls out Batman with the question "Which one of us is more insane?" The supervillain prankster or the man running around in a bat costume? In BAS, he's portrayed as being a pure prankster, but with a tendency of hurting people in the course of his games.

    IMO The Joker is an ILE. In summary: he sees things for what they are, he's a force of unbridled chaos, and he's a trickster.

    Of course whether this has any relevance at all to The Dark Knight I have no idea, never having watched it.

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    xerx's Avatar
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    Most badass ILE: Dr. Noonien Soong.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I think there are characteristics that many Beta NFs (or maybe just adolescents ?) seem to identify with that have been written into the Joker, perhaps justifiably perhaps not, but I don't dismiss the typing lightly because of it. That's the problem trying to type a character who appears in stories written by completely different people. The Tim Burton Joker was EIE.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That's the problem trying to type a character who appears in stories written by completely different people.
    This one.


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    xerx's Avatar
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    That could have been me eating the chocolate.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That could have been me eating the chocolate.
    And that is precisely the mindset of the Chaotic Evil that would kick you for enjoying chocolate icecream he could enjoy.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    I think people tend to systematically overestimate the "badassedness" of the ENFj type.

    ENFjs are surprisingly ineffectual people when you look at what they really represent. They're basically "whiners". ENFjs influence situations by complaining about things they don't like. Unless someone favorable to them that has actual skills reacts to these complaints, they are largely powerless to acheive much of anything.

    The exception is show bussiness and acting. Anywhere else, ENFjs aren't controlling or powerful. On the contrary.

    An ENTp has much fewer obstacles to attaining real power over a situation by comparison.

    As far as I'm aware, the Joker character largely acts on his own initiative, not having particularly many "minions" at his disposal or influencing many groups in a political capacity. This strongly indicates ENTp > ENFj. ENTp is one of the most independent of types. ENFj is the opposite in that regard.
    Last edited by krieger; 10-17-2010 at 02:10 PM.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Vito: SEE. He had a very Fi-ish "I scratch your back you scratch mine" way of calling in favors.
    Al Pacino is ESFp, so yes, this is the most plausible typing.

    Saprrow: SLE. Favored immediate action and making a short-term impact, and didn't seem to be someone who considered future possibilities, contingencies or potential long-term paths. He pretty much just made shit up as he went along.
    A little more dubious, considering Jhonny Depp is an IxFp of some kind.

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    Grand Inquisitor Bardia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    ESI = Shosanna Dreyfus (Inglourious Basterds)
    I just watched this movie recently. What makes you think she is ESI and why is she more bad ass then Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill?
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
    http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0

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