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Thread: Why do so many seem to think that I'm ENTj

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Question Why do so many seem to think that I'm ENTj

    Or if not LIE, at least a pretty firm not ILI?

    Ignore my screen name for now because that's more of a joke than anything at this point. So give me your best reasons as to why you think I'm LIE or "not ILI".

    I can procrastinate just as good as anybody else can. I'll leave big assignments till the eleventh hour and then FLY through it right down to the wire. It does require a monumental amount of effort to get myself off my duff and to go do stuff quite a bit. I can lose track of when bills are due like a champ too, along with other daily grind mundane things. My working space is typically a gigantic pile of "organized chaos" like any typical ILI. I always felt very awkward growing up, had a bit of a social phobia, and had great difficulty making friends like many ILIs have reported. And I too suffer from analysis paralysis and a complete inability to make decisions at times.

    So why am I not ILI?

    Okay go.
    Last edited by stevENTj; 10-13-2010 at 01:43 AM.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
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    I would guess the thing that throws people is the amount of bubbly energy in your posts.

    I mean, you've seen the amount of smilies you use. And beyond that, you're a very enthusiastic poster.

    For me at least, were I to form an opinion on your type, it would be a bit of a stretch for me to believe you're a Fe PoLR. Even in comparison to Aixelsyd, who has a reasonably cheery character on the forums, you're in a league of your own when it comes to your expressive energy.

    Please be gentle with me if I'm just horribly screwing up Socionics here or something

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    Well, I definitely don't think ILI is out of the question.

    Really the main thing that makes me think LIE > ILI is just the way you come across. ILIs, to me, have a heavier feel about them. Basically they just seem like downers in general (no offense, I still love you guys). You sound more up-beat. But, then again, it could just be in my head since obviously I can't actually hear you. There just seems to be color in the way you say things.

    Also, so you know, I relate to everything you said ^

    Except for the analysis paralysis part. I can't recall a time when I wasn't able to make a clear decision, even if it was to wait until I'm able to get more information.

    To this day I have a slight social phobia and trouble establishing new relationships. Although, you probably wouldn't know now unless I told you. People have told me that I come off distant and blocked off but that I'm a pleasure to talk to after things start warming up. I consider this one of my biggest problems that I've spent most my life trying to correct. In high school, I would consciously force myself to talk to people I didn't know.

    To be fair, I still consider ILI for myself now and then.




    The thing that makes me believe that I'm LIE > ILI is my ability to portray a friendly facade even when I'm really uncomfortable. I can almost feel myself change 'modes' like I'm switching roles. I get focused in on my facial movements become a lot more vibrant and tend to instinctually respond with laughing. I especially love to mock emotional reactions. I'll make sarcastic emotive responses as jokes.. people don't always get it but I find it funny. One person made a comment that it seems like I have characters that I act out now and then. But basically, I can jokingly communicate via expressions to a limit, but when it comes down to it I'm far more comfortable speaking seriously, factually, and directly. I get uncomfortable in atmospheres focused on emotional expression that feeds off each other. I can only do what's customary or go into an overt mockery of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    I would guess the thing that throws people is the amount of bubbly energy in your posts.

    I mean, you've seen the amount of smilies you use. And beyond that, you're a very enthusiastic poster.
    Yes! this.

    It's not just in my head.
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    It's kinda strange that LIE is always portrayed as an extreme optimists while ILIs are extreme pessimists. It's been consistent with my experience, but I can't figure out off hand why mirrors would be so different in that regard.
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    yeah it's basically what other people said, somehow from your posts you give off a more energetic, on-the-go, optimistic feel (which is consistent w/the stereotypical LIE portrait). but that can be deceiving, people easily can come across more energetic through the online medium than they actually are IRL. also, part it (for me at least) is that, assuming your wife is ESI and that you describe how good your relationship with her is (which is awesome btw!), it can be hard not to think "well maybe they're duals after all?" but yeah so far from what i've seen i wouldn't be surprised at either gamma NT typing for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    It's kinda strange that LIE is always portrayed as an extreme optimists while ILIs are extreme pessimists. It's been consistent with my experience, but I can't figure out off hand why mirrors would be so different in that regard.
    I guess if one type thinks about the long term effect of their actions and the other thinks about what actions effect the long term it kinda makes sense.

    One feeling as though they have control over their destiny if you will, and the other feeling like it's all pointless in the long run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    Or if not LIE, at least a pretty firm not ILI?

    Ignore my screen name for now because that's more of a joke than anything at this point. So give me your best reasons as to why you think I'm LIE or "not ILI".

    I can procrastinate just as good as anybody else can. I'll leave big assignments till the eleventh hour and then FLY through it right down to the wire. It does require a monumental amount of effort to get myself off my duff and to go do stuff quite a bit. I can lose track of when bills are due like a champ too, along with other daily grind mundane things. My working space is typically a gigantic pile of "organized chaos" like any typical ILI. I always felt very awkward growing up, had a bit of a social phobia, and had great difficulty making friends like many ILIs have reported. And I too suffer from analysis paralysis and a complete inability to make decisions at times.

    So why am I not ILI?

    Okay go.
    a functional analysis of your rebuttal speaks for itself.

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    I wasn't really thinking about your type until I read this thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...onal-type.html after which I was rather thinking that possibly you didn't really seem to relate to the IP temperament issue. I mean usually it seems when IPs get on each other for being depressive and inactive (stuck in inertia) they do it in this fashion where they're also criticizing themselves because they understand what it's like where as your posts just remind me of the way I've often found EJs to approach people who spend most of their time being rather inactive and then whine about how they can't seem to get up enough willpower to do something... For instance
    You just have to force yourself to go DO something that you need to get done, because things won't accomplish themselves.
    is something that is generally more easy for EJs to say because it actually does come easier to them to actually make themselves do something (because they really are more active naturally) so there isn't the inherent understanding of what it is like (although I agree that moaning about it won't help/change it).

    Anyway I also read the threads about your business trip with other gammas, the one about the crazy weekend, and your response to Blaze in her manufacturing Si thread and my overall impression from all of it is that you tend to live a very busy active life and have a good amount of energy to do this and a lot of positive energy to keep you going (which seems rather alien to me compared to my own nature). Anyway your post about downtime and that it might be harder for IPs in society doesn't disuade me from this because I think that American work life tends to drain everyone (even EJs)... I know my LSE uncle gets drained and stressed from it (and even depressed) periodically and sometimes is counting down the years to retirement (and he loves his job generally), and definitely likes downtime from time to time.

    I know this is a really subjective post and arguments based on "temperament" are usually just poor arguments that I use because I relate so much to temperament (which may be unwise to use so much)... it's just that you seem very active and positive and it just doesn't seem so ILI to me (although I don't really have a strong opinion or anything so it's not that I think ILI is impossible). Anyway it's just my "read" on it and very subjective impression based. (Also I could be misinterpreting your life and all.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    It's kinda strange that LIE is always portrayed as an extreme optimists while ILIs are extreme pessimists. It's been consistent with my experience, but I can't figure out off hand why mirrors would be so different in that regard.
    Not to put too much weight on Reinin, but LIEs are positivists whereas ILIs are negativists. And the split extends to all mirror types.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Not to put too much weight on Reinin, but LIEs are positivists whereas ILIs are negativists. And the split extends to all mirror types.
    Yeah, I know, but there aren't any mirror types that are consistently portrayed as polar opposites in this regard. I've even seen one-liner descriptions of LIEs as optimists. Plus, apparently positivist/negativist doesn't equate to optimist/pessimist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    I would guess the thing that throws people is the amount of bubbly energy in your posts.

    I mean, you've seen the amount of smilies you use. And beyond that, you're a very enthusiastic poster.

    For me at least, were I to form an opinion on your type, it would be a bit of a stretch for me to believe you're a Fe PoLR. Even in comparison to Aixelsyd, who has a reasonably cheery character on the forums, you're in a league of your own when it comes to your expressive energy.
    Yeah, I agree.
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    I use so many smilies in my posts they are on backorder
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I use so many smilies in my posts they are on backorder
    It's not as much about the smileys as it is about the feel of the post.
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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Wow lots of good responses and points. Here's a quick reply for now but I'll get to more later.

    On smilies, yeah I use them, but I think this is more learned behavior than anything else. On the forums I used to admin I used to use no smilies at all but then people complained that they had no idea how to take my posts and were 'afraid' of me. So I lightened things up a bit with smilies, but then people thought I was going overboard so I dialed the smilies back to medium. Without the smilies people would think I'm being overly harsh, negative, or criticizing when I really wasn't trying to be and wanted to keep the atmosphere more light-hearted and upbeat.

    On usage, again I think this is more learned behavior than anything.

    On general 'post enthusiasim'. At least recently, I think you could attribute that more to this website finally, potentially, having an atmosphere that's to my liking without all of the dumb flaming. It's a bit depressing when there's a topic that I'm really interested in learning more about, and discussing and sharing ideas and information on but all of the forums for it suck.

    Positivist vs Negativist

    From Wikisocion - Socionics Wiki - ????????? ????

    Positivists
    • More inclined to optimize already functional systems of things and processes.
    • "This glass is half-full", "We have already collected $438,000 for that project"
    • Usually more complimenting than reprimanding.
    • Socially and intellectually more trusting.
    • Explains what things are (irrationals) or should be (rationals).


    Negativists
    • More inclined to solve problems in systems of things and processes.
    • "This glass is half-empty", "We need $62,000 for that project"
    • Usually more reprimanding than complimenting.
    • Socially and intellectually more mistrusting.
    • Explains what things are not (irrationals) or should not be (rationals).
    I'm definitely more negativist than positivist. The positivist traits you might see again I think is more learned behavior than anything. My wife the ESI is incredibly negativist so to balance that out maybe I've become more positivist via developing other functions. I don't think that means I'm not ILI or that I must be LIE though.

    Remember I'm a bit older than many of you - I'll be 33 in like two weeks. So I've had that much more time to develop my weaker functions.
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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Oh one question I have for ILIs and people here. I see that most of the ILIs describe themselves as being Te sub-types. Maybe I'm mistaken in what that means? My impression was that TE sub-type ILIs could very well act and appear more like ILIs than LIEs, and the converse being that Ni sub-type LIEs maybe might seem more like they're ILI, or just "lazy" LIEs. With a Te sub-type ILI they'll emphasize the judging function more and appear more like an LIE. Is that still the generally accepted view of things? If so, are all of you Te sub-type ILIs sure that's really what you are and not Ni sub-type ILIs? For the ILIs here that declare a sub-type, I don't think I've seen one single one declaring themselves to be the Ni sub-type.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikesex View Post
    a functional analysis of your rebuttal speaks for itself.
    Would you mind expanding on that a little bit? I can be a little slow sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    yeah it's basically what other people said, somehow from your posts you give off a more energetic, on-the-go, optimistic feel (which is consistent w/the stereotypical LIE portrait). but that can be deceiving, people easily can come across more energetic through the online medium than they actually are IRL.
    Ding ding!

    Fake it till you make it?

    I've worked in some pretty intense working environments where things happen and have to move quickly. I'm not paid to sit around on my duff all day. Wouldn't that be nice? Being a family man now with a working spouse and two young kids, there's always tons of stuff that needs to be done on the homefront too. You just get so used to doing things and getting things done after awhile that it becomes second nature. Or maybe you experience the pain of procrastination enough times that you finally manage to break free of that and become a little more proactive.


    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    also, part it (for me at least) is that, assuming your wife is ESI and that you describe how good your relationship with her is (which is awesome btw!), it can be hard not to think "well maybe they're duals after all?" but yeah so far from what i've seen i wouldn't be surprised at either gamma NT typing for you.
    I'll quote crazedrat here, or at least one of their apparent fifteen different accounts, that I got out of Golden's sig. No idea where this was originally posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat360
    Socionicists too much understate & gloss over the negative parts of duality. Duals exist very apart from each other. They lack relatability. Dual relationships are the hardest to strike up, and most likely to fizzle out during the first stages. Duals shy away from each other. They view each other as unattainable. This is a clear flaw in the relationship.
    Could not agree more.

    Things started up very quickly with my wife, closely resembling an Activity relationship. There was also the over-stimulation or yo-yo effect where you'd need some time apart too. This was an issue early on, but we learned to understand each other better and not break up because of it. Even today it's still most closely matches Activity and not Duality, and it's great. My parents are conflictors, an SEI and an LIE. Yes there's 'tension' and awkwardness, but the fact is they love each other and have found ways around this. My wife and I have turned whatever awkwardness there is in an activity style relationship and turned it into a bit of a game which just makes things spicier and even better.

    She's definitely ESI, and not SEE too. You don't need to have a duality relationship in order to have a very good long-term, loving, and passionate relationship and I think that's very important to realize. Reading the socionics.com duality description, after it gets done idealizing and glorifying relations of duality, they then spend the next three paragraphs warning about NOT idealizing it too much along with all of the other pitfalls and how there's more to it than that. And indeed there is. In the case of my wife and I, we both eventually wanted to have a family, we both highly valued education, had similar work ethics, views on life, political orientation, literally everything else was a good match. So what little awkwardness there was from activity vs duality was easily dealt with. If a bunch of those things weren't in sync then even a duality would not be enough to hold things together, which is also mentioned in the socionics.com duality description.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    Oh one question I have for ILIs and people here. I see that most of the ILIs describe themselves as being Te sub-types. Maybe I'm mistaken in what that means? My impression was that TE sub-type ILIs could very well act and appear more like ILIs than LIEs, and the converse being that Ni sub-type LIEs maybe might seem more like they're ILI, or just "lazy" LIEs. With a Te sub-type ILI they'll emphasize the judging function more and appear more like an LIE. Is that still the generally accepted view of things? If so, are all of you Te sub-type ILIs sure that's really what you are and not Ni sub-type ILIs? For the ILIs here that declare a sub-type, I don't think I've seen one single one declaring themselves to be the Ni sub-type.
    Generally the understanding is that a Te-subtype ILI won't be more similar to a LIE, but rather to a SLI (basically, each temperament would form a ring, with each subtype nearer to either the preceeding or the following quadra inside a given temperament - but equally far from types pertaining to different temperament-rings). Otherwise, who would (for example) a Te-subtype LIE or Fe-subtype ESE be more similar to, in his/her own quadra?

    By the way, I personally don't agree about the potential downsides deriving from duality. The only problematic duality relationship I've had was with an ISFj with bpd, otherwise they've all been quite smooth and easy to start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    your posts just remind me of the way I've often found EJs to approach people who spend most of their time being rather inactive and then whine about how they can't seem to get up enough willpower to do something... For instance is something that is generally more easy for EJs to say because it actually does come easier to them to actually make themselves do something (because they really are more active naturally) so there isn't the inherent understanding of what it is like (although I agree that moaning about it won't help/change it).

    Anyway I also read the threads about your business trip with other gammas, the one about the crazy weekend, and your response to Blaze in her manufacturing Si thread and my overall impression from all of it is that you tend to live a very busy active life and have a good amount of energy to do this and a lot of positive energy to keep you going (which seems rather alien to me compared to my own nature).
    Great post! A lot of great observations.

    Yes it definitely is easier for EJs to be active and harder for IPs, but does that preclude IPs from also being active or automatically make you an EJ if you are? Per a very deep discussion Expat and I had a few years ago, he described himself as fundamentally being most comfortable when active and doing things. I'm the opposite and fundamentally most comfortable when inactive and not doing anything. Yet I still have a lot of stuff I need to do, and have to get them done. The more you're out doing stuff and taking care of business, the more natural it starts to feel, and the less awkward and painful it is from a mental standpoint. Doesn't mean it's ever completely natural though. I can go in EJ mode for quite awhile, but eventually I'll burn out whereas EJs never seem to tire, or at least have a whole lot more stamina.

    I need to make sure to program in 'mental breaks' for myself to get back into IP mode once in awhile, because if I'm constantly busy with every single minute planned I'll go absolutely crazy. My wife understands this and knows that when I need a break that means a break from her as well, or else I'll have that 'over-activation' burnout that you can get from activity relationships as well. An hour or so to just fiddle on the computer and let my mind drift, or a couple hours out of the house without the kids doing something just for me works pretty well. And I try to workout for 30-45 minutes each day in my home gym without anybody bothering me too, which lets me get back into IP mode and contemplate things and life while also getting some exercise. At a previous job where I was working 12-16 hour days for months on end, that hour or so out of the office each day to get some fresh air and some exercise at a local park (jogging and hiking trails) let me get back into IP mode for awhile, and that's how you keep your sanity.

    So in essence, my angle is 'learned behavior' here and perhaps having learned to adapt well to a world that demands you be an EJ, and not being a different temperament.

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    By the way, if you think your current screen-name is misleading, I believe you can easily have it changed (at least I know many people did chage username so I suppose the admins can change yours too)...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Generally the understanding is that a Te-subtype ILI won't be more similar to a LIE, but rather to a SLI (basically, each temperament would form a ring, with each subtype nearer to either the preceeding or the following quadra inside a given temperament - but equally far from types pertaining to different temperament-rings). Otherwise, who would (for example) a Te-subtype LIE or Fe-subtype ESE be more similar to, in his/her own quadra?
    ahh, ic, I misunderstood how that works then.

    So a Te sub-type ILI would be closer to an SLI (delta), and an Ni sub-type ILI would be closer to an IEI (beta). Is that correct? Same temperament maintained, but closer to or further from adjacent quadras, in this case Delta or Beta? I think I can identify stronger with SLI and at least IRL seem to get along better with them, so Te sub-type would probably still be accurate.

    Edit: So for an ESI then, an Se sub-type woud be closer to LSI, and an Fi sub-type would be closer to EII?
    Last edited by stevENTj; 10-13-2010 at 05:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    Ding ding!

    Fake it till you make it?

    I've worked in some pretty intense working environments where things happen and have to move quickly. I'm not paid to sit around on my duff all day. Wouldn't that be nice? Being a family man now with a working spouse and two young kids, there's always tons of stuff that needs to be done on the homefront too. You just get so used to doing things and getting things done after awhile that it becomes second nature. Or maybe you experience the pain of procrastination enough times that you finally manage to break free of that and become a little more proactive.


    I'll quote crazedrat here, or at least one of their apparent fifteen different accounts, that I got out of Golden's sig. No idea where this was originally posted.


    Could not agree more.

    Things started up very quickly with my wife, closely resembling an Activity relationship. There was also the over-stimulation or yo-yo effect where you'd need some time apart too. This was an issue early on, but we learned to understand each other better and not break up because of it. Even today it's still most closely matches Activity and not Duality, and it's great. My parents are conflictors, an SEI and an LIE. Yes there's 'tension' and awkwardness, but the fact is they love each other and have found ways around this. My wife and I have turned whatever awkwardness there is in an activity style relationship and turned it into a bit of a game which just makes things spicier and even better.

    She's definitely ESI, and not SEE too. You don't need to have a duality relationship in order to have a very good long-term, loving, and passionate relationship and I think that's very important to realize. Reading the socionics.com duality description, after it gets done idealizing and glorifying relations of duality, they then spend the next three paragraphs warning about NOT idealizing it too much along with all of the other pitfalls and how there's more to it than that. And indeed there is. In the case of my wife and I, we both eventually wanted to have a family, we both highly valued education, had similar work ethics, views on life, political orientation, literally everything else was a good match. So what little awkwardness there was from activity vs duality was easily dealt with. If a bunch of those things weren't in sync then even a duality would not be enough to hold things together, which is also mentioned in the socionics.com duality description.
    it seems to me that for duality to work both parties need to come from a loving and nurturing backround. it seems the more screwed up you are the harder it is to make it work. duality can help you be less screwed up by ballancing you out. i think it often doesn't work out for people because they have to own up to being wrong about nearly every belief they have. people on the whole don't like admitting when they are wrong, but it is the first step to long term change. for me it's been like alchemy. i used to be lead now i'm slowly but surely turning into gold. (well, i'm still a total retard but i'm definately being put on the right track by my dual.)

    i have a theory that nature balances out bad behaviour in this way. since people in stable loving relationships are healthier which means their children on average would also be healthier and so on down through the generations, wouldn't it make sense that offspring from ballanced relationships would have a better chance of survival than offspring raised in unballanced homes? in the long run i mean. love is a way to correct mistakes made by your ancestors.

    having been in a long term relationship with my complete opposite i can see how it made me extreme in my enfp foolishness. same story with my parents, complete oposites- two lonely and extreme people. my dual helps me be normal, that can only be a good thing. i think activity is a close second though and would be a good environment to raise kids in, which afterall is the main reason for finding the perfect match.

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    oh and from reading a few of your posts i would say ili.

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Here's a good demonstration of this incredible amount of energy that I have.

    I was dead asleep at 830pm last night.

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by humblepie View Post
    it seems to me that for duality to work both parties need to come from a loving and nurturing backround. it seems the more screwed up you are the harder it is to make it work. duality can help you be less screwed up by ballancing you out. i think it often doesn't work out for people because they have to own up to being wrong about nearly every belief they have. people on the whole don't like admitting when they are wrong, but it is the first step to long term change. for me it's been like alchemy. i used to be lead now i'm slowly but surely turning into gold. (well, i'm still a total retard but i'm definately being put on the right track by my dual.)

    having been in a long term relationship with my complete opposite i can see how it made me extreme in my enfp foolishness. same story with my parents, complete oposites- two lonely and extreme people. my dual helps me be normal, that can only be a good thing. i think activity is a close second though and would be a good environment to raise kids in, which afterall is the main reason for finding the perfect match.
    Kids or not, it's nice to have someone that completes you. And yes the socionics.com description of duality does mention that the further through life you are, or the more 'twisted around' you may have become from various life experiences, the less likely it is that a duality relationship would actually work out for you.

  27. #27
    Don't leave me lost here forever crazymaisy's Avatar
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    Default Glass is half ...

    FWIW:

    When I was younger, the internet was younger ... Forums were big, and "talking" in forums was REALLY big, especially for introverts ... and I was pretty forward, upbeat, interesting and all ... one forum I was on I became a moderator, and there was a "moderators" conference call that was planned for the first time, and on it I was told I was nothing like my posts, didn't sound like they thought I would, blah, blah, blah. I talk IRL how other people around me talk. I'm a chameleon.

    Any how, sometime in the future after that I met one of those people IRL and she complained about me later that I was too quiet and didn't understand why.

    Looking at that time I was very energetic posting. I was outspoken on some issues, polite all the way, enthusiastic, informative.

    IRL I totally didn't get a good vibe from that person, felt overly "shy" or "dull" and meeting IRL was a total FLOP. I can see how personalities don't come across via the internet or via the phone. It's possible to type someone online, but not just from forum posts on "just any site."

    So any way, back to what I was wanting to say further, I was younger and more open online (all the while keeping my IRL personal self private.) I was more Te ... that's something I can definitely say was a development of my personality as I was growing up into an adult and maturing ( & school.)

    The past few or more years I've been much less "online" in the way of talking on forums and other's blogs, I mostly just write my own blogs and do things with pictures and videos ... I have little interaction with things other than my own, seldom post here as well. I've gotten much more in-tune with my Ni though I'm not certain I see myself as a sub-type, it does depend on the day, what's going on. I'm certainly more rounded, and know that my strongest part is my Ni, and I love it.

    Also important to note I am female and stay home with my children all day, homeschool, and get nothing done, ever, except for sometimes. And ... do not stop by, I'll hide & not answer the door, unless you have a package for me.

    Also, I've always been a "glass-is-half-full" sort of person all the while coming across as very pessimistic and critical. My hubby is SEE and is a "glass-is-half-empty" kind of person, but comes across more positive and "happy-go-lucky".
    Maisy
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    I think in pictures, moving pictures...

    Recommended Music - ILI-Ni



    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    Or if not LIE, at least a pretty firm not ILI?

    Ignore my screen name for now because that's more of a joke than anything at this point. So give me your best reasons as to why you think I'm LIE or "not ILI".

    I can procrastinate just as good as anybody else can. I'll leave big assignments till the eleventh hour and then FLY through it right down to the wire. It does require a monumental amount of effort to get myself off my duff and to go do stuff quite a bit. I can lose track of when bills are due like a champ too, along with other daily grind mundane things. My working space is typically a gigantic pile of "organized chaos" like any typical ILI. I always felt very awkward growing up, had a bit of a social phobia, and had great difficulty making friends like many ILIs have reported. And I too suffer from analysis paralysis and a complete inability to make decisions at times.

    So why am I not ILI?

    Okay go.
    I don't have an opinion on your type as I think you said you are 32 so I am unconfident in my ability to determine your type and seperate it from a more evolved personality.

    However, I would say that you don't have the same approach to debating as for instance user aiss, so maybe this is why people don't think your INTp, for example.

  29. #29
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Generally the understanding is that a Te-subtype ILI won't be more similar to a LIE, but rather to a SLI (basically, each temperament would form a ring, with each subtype nearer to either the preceeding or the following quadra inside a given temperament - but equally far from types pertaining to different temperament-rings). Otherwise, who would (for example) a Te-subtype LIE or Fe-subtype ESE be more similar to, in his/her own quadra?

    By the way, I personally don't agree about the potential downsides deriving from duality. The only problematic duality relationship I've had was with an ISFj with bpd, otherwise they've all been quite smooth and easy to start.
    I think you could be right about Te-ILI looking like Te-SLI, but I also think a Te-subtype might also look more like their mirror. I know this is the case with Te-SLI vs Te-LSE for me. There is a strong resemblance, and I have to look at their underlying motivations to tell them apart.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    ahh, ic, I misunderstood how that works then.

    So a Te sub-type ILI would be closer to an SLI (delta), and an Ni sub-type ILI would be closer to an IEI (beta). Is that correct? Same temperament maintained, but closer to or further from adjacent quadras, in this case Delta or Beta? I think I can identify stronger with SLI and at least IRL seem to get along better with them, so Te sub-type would probably still be accurate.

    Edit: So for an ESI then, an Se sub-type woud be closer to LSI, and an Fi sub-type would be closer to EII?
    noooo i dont think an Ni-ILI would be closer to IEI at all. There is the great Fe/Fi divide. And the Te/Ti divide. that's major.


    I think an Ni-ILI would just be closer to what is thought of as a typical ILI.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    I don't care much for subtypes, even although I suspect I have one! Well, reason I don't care is that most people seem to fall somewhere in the middle.

    However, there's loads of subtype theories out there, and some I can't even be bothered to read.

    To keep it simple, ie the two subtype theory, then you can think of it this way, perhaps:

    1st and 3rd functions are the INPUT functions
    2nd and 4th functions are the OUTPUT functions

    eg. for an ILI, they take information in throught their N and then release that information via their T. Same for the ego and super ego components.

    So if you see someone who's an ILI and displays quite a lot of Te and also has some Fe ability then they are most likely ILI-Te. The user Jarno describes himself as ILI-Te, and he seems pretty factual and also kinda pleasant-ish (some Fe)?

    Whether that's bs is another story, dunno do with it what you will, I suppose this is one of the reasons I don't particularly bother with sub types, things seem pretty complex as it is.

  32. #32
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    I definitely identify much more closely with the logical sub-type ILI than the intuitive sub-type. I do seem to have SLI like tendencies and preferences as well.

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    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    So why am I not ILI?
    Because your username states pretty clearly that you're an ENTj.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Because your username states pretty clearly that you're an ENTj.
    It looks like Steven T junior to me.

  35. #35
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Because your username states pretty clearly that you're an ENTj.

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    ILI-Te seems most likely, but I do agree that some ILI-Te's can be more sarcastic and negative than you are.

    But if you watch Warren Buffet (youtube etc), he's an ILI-Te and he's an upbeat guy too. So it still makes sense that you are ILI-Te.

  37. #37
    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    I find that the persona you exhibit on the forum seems to speak more to action than reflection. The way in which you discuss things seems a lot more externally focussed rather than analytical.

    In some ways that could be explained by sub-type, I suppose, but your manner of speech here just exudes a more EJ presence for me.

    Like anything else in socionics, there is only so much that can be done with a person's online persona to determine personality. Textual manner of speech can often be distinctly different than one's face-to-face impression. As an example thehotelambush, after spending time with me in person, felt that I was almost certainly an EXE (probably EIE because of the number of beta/gammas I was hanging out with at the time). In contrast, Pied Piper gets the distinct impression that I am ILI from my forum presence. And then, in the midst of both these typings, I type myself as ILE (and if not that then almost certainly IEE). Those are three VERY different typings with their own collection of personas that often contradict each other. Does that mean that two or more of us are all horrendous typers? Not necessarily. I think it's just difficult to distinguish between varying forms of evidence.

    Yup, there's my blurb on why I don't often bother typing people on the forum.
    ILE
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    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

  38. #38
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    I can identify with a lot of your posts, when I am in a happy mood. I am just a depressed bastard most of the time

    So why do people mistype you? Well, bluntly, its because they can't type worth a crap. I can't get over how many people mistype themselves on this forum, or how frequent their type changes.

    If you want to get a good idea on the difference between the Ni and Te subtype for ILI, I suggest heading over to INTP Forum. Check out the immortal threads and you'll see a youtube thread. The Ni subtypes seem a little more 'extreme' or 'not all there (in a good way)' then the Te subtypes.
    /

  39. #39
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    I find that the persona you exhibit on the forum seems to speak more to action than reflection. The way in which you discuss things seems a lot more externally focussed rather than analytical.

    In some ways that could be explained by sub-type, I suppose, but your manner of speech here just exudes a more EJ presence for me.
    Good observation.

    My first job after college was super crazy. Aggressively bid engineering development work with a company that everybody would recognize the name of, complete with "no slip" clauses in the contract which meant that after 30 days late we got a big flat ZERO dollars on a multi-million dollar contract, and pro-rated before that. Lots of night and weekend work, along with travel over to Europe here and there. No time to screw around - just git er done. That work ethic and mentality was sort of burned into me in a way and it still carries with me to this day and spreads into other things as well.

    At some point you realize that there's a time for reflection and pondering, and a time when you need to or must take action. Nothing like your job or livelihood being on the line as a source of motivation. :wink: When you're on your own, it's all you. Nobody is going to take care of things for you, or do your job for you. I also considered it "shameful" to have to ask parents for help, and have never needed to ask them for so much as a dime, so yet another source of motivation.

    Lots of people here are younger, in school, probably still being supported by their parents, and haven't really had to face life yet. And especially in the U.S. where there aren't nearly as many social safety nets and also a stigma from using what safety nets there are, that's even more encouragement to take care of yourself and your affairs, so that others (aka taxpayers) don't have to for you. Meanwhile they're rioting in Paris over the government there strongly considering raising the retirement age from 60 to 62.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

  40. #40
    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm just an ILI with heavy doses of external EJ conditioning to fool people with.

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