Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Enneagram vertical development - health levels

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Korea
    TIM
    INTJ - intuitive sub
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Enneagram vertical development - health levels

    There is plenty of material here to keep anyone busy on a boring rainy day but I was researching the enneagram institute and a certain fundamental component of the enneagram appeared more important. The enneagram system works along a vertical axis. The vertical axis refers to the levels of development of each individual enneagram type. Here is the link:

    Enneagram Levels of Development: Presentation at IEA Conference '04

    In enneagram, the level of development can mean a vast difference in the traits of an individual. The way they phrase the vertical dictomoy is rising to the heights of being, essence and truth or sinking into illusions of ego and personality.

    My question is what is your enneagram type and to be honest with yourself what is your level of development within the enneagram system?

    Funny enough intuitively I can easily imagine certain moments in my life when my development was rasied and lowered. To converge enneagram and socionics,

    level 1 ---duality---
    level 2 ----
    level 3 ----
    level 4 ----
    level 5 ----
    level 6 ----
    level 7 ----
    level 8 -----
    level 9 ----conflictor----

    here implying socionic duality as moving in direction of growth toward healthy level 1 and conflictor moving in direction of disintergration toward average and unhealthy levels 6 and below. That is the bare essence of levels of development. Undoubtedly, duality and conflictor only marks a deep level of both healthy and unhealthy states. Ironically the closest I have ever felt to an individual besides my dual is my conflictor but for completely opposite reasons. Imagine if you will duality is like standing at the alter with your true love and conflictor is like sitting in an office talking to a therapist about your childhood. At level 1 my psyche is highly receptivite to Si and Fe and simultanesouly highly resistant to Fi and Se. The opposite is true of level 9.

    In the same manner I could, like your typical rational being, construct a timeline that indicates stages of my life when my development of my psyche was at higher and lower levels. As of right now I'd say I'm moving away from average and toward healthy levels of development, likely level 3. Funny enough I'm still a bit unsure of my enneagram type or, more accurately put, I stop caring.

    So ya, the vertical axis of enneagram is an important distinction from socionics which is based on a horizontal line. Another distinction is enneagram levels of development shift throughout ones life, sometimes even daily. The socionic horizontal line seems definite.

    As a side note: Maslow's heiarchy of needs follows a vertical axis and implies levels of development.

    They say genious is simplicity and I think that is the case here. I've seen the vertical line used by Plato to explain the theory of forms. Its an incredibly simple way to demonstrate paradimes, paradoxes, contradictions etc....like if your a history buff and think of the classical period, medieval period and renaissance period, horizontally its just a line stretching longer over time but when you add in a vertical line, that requires revaluation.

  2. #2
    Creepy-male

    Default

    I've had my dual cause me to move along my line of disintegration and general unhealthiness due to the stress she caused me, even multiple times. I think I'm only integrating now that I'm on an indefinite vacation in the name of preserving my sanity and energy.

    Nice try though.

    'Course you could always argue that my Dual has indirectly caused me to Integrate by repeatedly hurling relationship chaos at me and totally upheaving my inner world, but I think that would be missing the point somewhat.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Korea
    TIM
    INTJ - intuitive sub
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    I've had my dual cause me to move along my line of disintegration and general unhealthiness due to the stress she caused me, even multiple times. I think I'm only integrating now that I'm on an indefinite vacation in the name of preserving my sanity and energy.

    Nice try though.

    'Course you could always argue that my Dual has indirectly caused me to Integrate by repeatedly hurling relationship chaos at me and totally upheaving my inner world, but I think that would be missing the point somewhat.

    you have to consider where you dual is along their own vertical line as well. I mean if you meet your dual when they are unheathy or average, its likely, there is not going to be any dual effect.

    that's my point really. the vertical line in enneagram suggests not simply categorizing a type but evaluating their level of development as suggesting a clearer picture as to where they are in their lives.

    I suppose the soicionic theory suggests duality as the best relationship and offers simple explanations why duality may not occur. I have disputed socionics for the simple fact that in theory the relationship is meant to work but yet have a hard time making that so; having a hard time putting theory in practice.

    When you consider a vertical line in the sense of an individual's development, its likely, that, they are going to be more aware of the intentions of their dual and what they want from them as opposed to a lower functioning indivdual of the same type.

    In much the same way, its really offers a new perspective in terms of evaluting yourself and others fairly. That itself could suggest why its not smart to generalize about types based simply on labeling their enneagram or socionic type.

    Moreso, a person may remain at the same level of development for years. The enneagram mentions that its likely that no one traverses all nine levels and they definitely can not exist at the bottom and top at one time.

    My theory, if I can call it that, is that two healthy individuals have a better chance of getting into a duality, as compared to unhealthy individuals, or one healthy and another unhealthy.

    in sum the vertical line introduces context to category. To categorize a person over and ove is redundant. There has to be a breaking point when you start to evaluate their behaviour and not just determine their category.

    admittedly, when I read the enneagram descriptions I get all dreamy eyed when reading about a level 1 description for any type but in truth that is a rarity as much as reading about level 9.

  4. #4
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    you have to consider where you dual is along their own vertical line as well. I mean if you meet your dual when they are unheathy or average, its likely, there is not going to be any dual effect.
    No, most definitely--at least according to the Russians--standard Duality stuff occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    I suppose the soicionic theory suggests duality as the best relationship and offers simple explanations why duality may not occur. I have disputed socionics for the simple fact that in theory the relationship is meant to work but yet have a hard time making that so; having a hard time putting theory in practice.
    You don't "make" Duality. It's a description of how things will naturally pan out. If Duality does not happen, in full, or in part, then you were simply not close enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    When you consider a vertical line in the sense of an individual's development, its likely, that, they are going to be more aware of the intentions of their dual and what they want from them as opposed to a lower functioning indivdual of the same type.
    Individuals with more exposure to their Dual are going to be this, it has nothing to do with the Enneagram.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Korea
    TIM
    INTJ - intuitive sub
    Posts
    214
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    consider the argument that socionics and enneagram development can be harmonious, which is not an argument for causation. When turning experience into knowledge, socionic duality can correlate with higher functioning levels of development within the enneagram system.

    consider the statement "at your best", from experience I can describe myself "at my best" when in a fulfilling dual relationship and simultaneously I can describe myself "at my best" within the higher levels of development in the enneagram system.

    In my opinion enneagram better explains an individual's creative output by evaluating, within the levels of development, to what order that individual belongs within a healthy, average and unhealthy state.

    Socionics better explains the interpersonal relationships but fails to fully grasp the consequences of the duality effect. Duality is regarded as a healthy relationship naturally beneficial to the ego, both consciously and subconsciously. In truth the everlasting appeal of socionics is the fact that they predict duality to be the best relationship to all others. That is not the same as predicting two individuals who reach their full potential due to duality even though this may occur - which is my opinion that duality brings out the best in you. If i had to alter my theory from bringing out the best to certainly bettering you as an individual. Thus far duality protects your weaknesses etc. Which is like saying the best relationship is the safest relationship but it is my opinion that the best relationship is one of individual growth for both partners.

    If you have read the socioniks.com descriptions, they depict duality as offering psychological completion but with your dual you mostly avoid embarrassment and your dual corrects your mistakes in a harmless and inoffensive manner.

    Enneagram describes areas of compatibility and incompatibility but does not develop a system that prioritizes one relationship to be more compatible than the rest. The relationship system basically implies no one partner is more or less compatible than other, each relationship brings something different in a positive and negative way.

    my interpretation of socioinics and enneagram is one succeeds where the other fails. Enneagram sets a level of development for the individual but does not set a relationship that is truly best, instead they say each relationship has postive and negative qualities.

    Socionics sets a relationship that is truly best based on the positive and negative qualities of the individual socionic type in relation to another individual socionic type. In a dual relationship, your areas of strength is appreciated and your area of weaknesses overlooked but does that mean your areas of weakness is resolved?

    I postulate prolonged interaction (what you call exposure) with your dual would bring about higher levels of development inwhich the strenghts of the individual would be heightened and the weakness resolved or amended. I'm sure many people share the sentiment of wanting to be loved for who they are warts and all, but at the same time a relationship that offers full acceptance without progress is stagnate and unsatisfying. Its too perfect!

    My innovation is duality can be healthy, average and unheathy as moving along a vertical path. I'm sure there is hundreds of testimonies here on this forum website that can appropriate a personal experience within a dual relationship and transform that into certain knoweldge of socionics. An innovation unique to this forum page I might add.

    I hope I've made myself clear and you understand the difference in the values of each system.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •