Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 81 to 110 of 110

Thread: Reinin's Book

  1. #81
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,333
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Duals and identicals are the best teachers. Duals in my experience are better of course.

  2. #82
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,105
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    You don't relate to that part? All Ti types do more or less, but LIIs being obstinate coupled with Ti dominance should have all the reason to relate to that.
    I don't relate to it either. (or maybe I'm just in denial :wink
    I fit the ILE description better and the reinin dichotomies associated with ILE. Maybe I am an ILE.


    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    There are two lists of Celebrities for each type in the book. One is from Reinen, and one is horribly wrong (The ALL CAPS ones I believe). I would ignore the famous descriptions and focus on the theoretical points (which are correct). Works just like all socionics articles.

    Proof: Carl Jung is listed under both LII and ILI.
    Drew Barrymore is listed as both SEE and SEI.


    I finally got around to reading over the book and noticed that much of the text is red or highlighted. Is there a rhyme or reason to it or just what the translator happened to think was pertinent?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  3. #83
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,333
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Those famous lists are mixed up by accident if you can't tell already, probably due to translation error. Reinin's list is fine, but the second list is SEE instead of SEI, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I don't relate to it either. (or maybe I'm just in denial :wink
    I fit the ILE description better and the reinin dichotomies associated with ILE. Maybe I am an ILE.
    Yeah Reinin LIIs seem a lot more closed-off in this weird linear way with their thinking, finding conclusion after conclusion when Ne is really active. ILEs are more open and indecisive, naturally accepting Ne most of the time instead.

  4. #84
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,105
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Iíve finally finished reading Reininís book and its raised a lot of questions, especially regarding the Reinin dichotomies. It seems the way in which Reinin describes several of the dichotomies is very different from how they are described in Wikisocion. So Iím confused. In particular, the reasonable/resolute dichotomy is described very differently between the two sources.
    Hereís what Reinin says:

    The reasonable Ė the resolute. The reasonable ones consider the potential opportunities, in their relationships they are giving, they want to please and be interesting (sexually also). The resolute are mostly focused on the immediate experience of a relationship, and the pleasure that he/she is getting. This distinction is true in the intimate sphere also. The two types may also be named the givers and the takers.

    Thereís no mention of any of this in the wikisocion descriptions. In wikisocion, the focus is on whether or not oneís natural state is more relaxed (reasonable/judicious) or mobilized (resolute/decisive)

    The tactical/strategic dichotomy is another example of how the two sources define it very differently. According to Reinin:

    The tacticians Ė the strategists. This attribute becomes evident in people's relationships. The tacticians are capable of providing immediate support, they can advise on tactics and give short-term financial support. They can give advice on practical behavior in specific situations. They never check up on you to see if you have used their advice. The strategists are inclined to give strategic advice; they offer their energy and time. They are not as flexible in the area of compromise. They can grasp a situation as a whole at the first glance.

    Now compare that to Wikisocion

    Tacticals
    1.Focus on methods, and manipulate them, with goals unsettled.
    2.Goals are defined by, and modified to fit methods.
    3.Prefers to expand options. Doesn't like to have too few of them.
    Strategicals
    1.Focus on goals, and manipulate them, with methods unsettled.
    2.Methods are defined by, and modified to fit goals.
    3.Prefers to defend goals. Doesn't like to be forced to deviate from them.

    Now look at rational-irrational. According to Reinin:

    Irrationality - rationality. This pair is also one of Jung's basic pairs; it corresponds to Krechmer's cyclothymic - schizothymic pair. There are eight rational and eight irrational types in a socion. The rational types are characterized by a subtle change in sensitivity, whereas the irrational types Ė by fluctuations of mood. The rational types are more focused and stable. The irrational types are characterized by a roller coaster of emotions varying from elation to depression, abundance of energy to exhaustion. The extreme stage of the irrationality is known as the manic depressive syndrome. Here we do not touch upon any of the aspects of the 'big psychiatry', as we consider only people with basically wholesome mentality, who are integrated in the society: here we stay within the 'psychological norm'.

    In Wikisocion, no mention is made at all about fluctuations of mood. In Reinin, itís the only thing. In socionics.us there are a long list comparing traits of rationals and irrationals and mood fluctuation is just one small part of it.



    See what I mean about the differences in dichotomy descriptions? Which approach is correct? How do they relate to each other? Did the Russian translation get so botched that the interpretations in Wikisocion and other English sources become very different from what Reinin intended?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  5. #85
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,105
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here are some differences I spotted.

    Reinin describes compliant/stubborn (yielding/obstinate) like this:


    The Compliant Ė the stubborn (the terms offered by A.Augustinavičiūtė). The compliant types are inclined to avoid conflicts, they are hardworking, and they strive for good relationships. The stubborn ones' have a motto ďattack is the best defense.Ē they would not concede easily.

    Hereís Wikisocionís take on it:

    Yielding types
    1.Resources are 'sacred', but ideas are freely shared and manipulated.
    2.Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' interests.
    3.Protect their resources to the point of conflict, and their reaction may be unduly strong.
    4.ďIf I know I can't do something, I won't and will forget all about it.Ē
    Obstinate types
    1.Ideas are 'sacred', but resources are freely shared and manipulated.
    2.Easily aware of the boundaries between their and others' resources.
    3.Guard their interests from intrusions, and their reaction to such intrusions may be quite sharp.
    4.ďI won't abandon my interests just because my resources are inadequate, but simply work towards improving my resources until they ARE adequate.Ē


    Item #2 in the yielding description I suppose could relate to Reininís idea that yielding types want to strive for good relationships. Item #3 in the obstinate description sorta relates to Reininís idea about obstinate types not wanting to concede easily. However, yielding types may not concede easily when their resources are threatened (#3). Reinin makes no mention of resource protecting vs. interest protecting.

    Hereís Reininís description of the democrat/aristrocrat:

    The Democrats Ė the aristocrats. The attribute manifests itself as a universal characteristic of fellowship. The democrats find it easy to establish horizontal relationships, get on friendly terms, become friends and partners. The aristocrats are more aware of the hierarchies; they keep people at a distance, more prone to establishing vertical relationships.
    During the experiments these groups are easy to distinguish. The aristocrats try to distance themselves from others as much as possible, they never interrupt anybody; democrats speak all at once, frequently neglecting the common norms of politeness.


    Hereís Wikisocionís:

    Aristocrats
    1.Inclined to perceive and define themselves, and others, through groups they belong to; however, such groups are perceived and defined by the Aristocrats themselves, not necessarily accepting those groupings as defined by others or by social conventions.
    2.Their initial attitude to another person is influenced by their attitude to the group they see the person as belonging to.
    3.Tend to attribute common qualities to members of their circles of contacts, and define such circles by those same qualities.
    4.Inclined to use expressions that generalize group features.
    Example: feeling energized by identification with a group, as in a team within a company, sports team, and the like; and seeing others foremost through the prism of the other teams they belong to.

    Democrats
    1.Perceive and define themselves, and others, primarily through individual/personal qualities: interesting, pleasant, unpleasant, good-looking, etc, not in connection to any group they may belong to.
    2.Form their relationships/attitudes toward other persons based on the latter's own individual characteristics, not with base on their relationships to groups of any kind, nor on their relationships to representatives of such groups.
    3.Not inclined to perceive their acquaintances as representatives of a certain "circle of contacts" that supposedly possesses qualities inherent to people of that circle.
    4.Not inclined to use expressions that generalize group features.
    Example: an individual building up his circle of personal connections, within an organization, that totally bypassses or ignores the organization's formal structure, but not with that circle being perceived as any kind of group or unit by any of the persons involved.


    Reinin doesnít mention about individual vs. group orientation like Wikisocion. Again Iím not entirely clear how these two different interpretations relate to one other. Why would identifying yourself through groups (Wikisocion) imply distancing yourself from others as much as possible (Reinin)? Maybe if you belong to different groups but what if youíre in the same group? Why would democrats interrupt each other more? I donít quite get it.

    One more thing to mention. Reininís extraverted intuition description seems very different from Wikisocion or socionics.us

    Hereís Reininís description:
    -Objective intuition.The order of events from the beginning to the end, i.e. the sets of events known beforehand, the schedule. Potential opportunities. Behavior program, the way of life, the rhythm of life. Scenario of any action, acting in accordance to predetermined scenario.

    Positive objective intuition (+). Integrity of the environment: everything is known from beginning to end; the world as if rolls on straight tracks; there is a schedule; the world is predictable, people are predictable, too.

    Inverse objective intuition (-). Infringement of the integrity of environment: unexpectedness, breach of schedule; the result of events is unpredictable, or an unexpected event.


    Compare that with Wikisocion:

    is generally associated with the ability to recognize possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize talent and natural propensities in others, reconcile differing perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate ideas, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate curiosity in others.

    And with Socionics.us
    potentiality of objects: inherent possibilities, purpose, abilities, talents, content, values (socionics.us)


    Reinin talks about extraverted intuition and predictability and schedules. Iíve never seen an Ne base type to be very concerned with predictability or schedules.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  6. #86
    Trevor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,855
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Wikisocion descriptions>Reinin descriptions. Anytime.
    Last edited by Trevor; 11-07-2010 at 01:01 AM.

  7. #87
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,491
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    JohnDo, I don't know if this helps.

    From experience, I'd rather learn from an identical when learning a particular job or task. For general life, well everything else, the dual is the best teacher.

    Perhaps as an LII you'd want to learn the systems of a job in a way which matches your ego block filtering, but for Fe and Si matters, that's when the dual is best teacher.

    I agree it's somewhat contradictory in how its wrote, as they are both the best teachers, just at different things.

  8. #88
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,070
    Mentioned
    195 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, Wikisocion is just a wiki on a not-so-well-defined subject, so it shouldn't be held as being the ultimately credible source.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  9. #89
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,862
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default x

    First of all: nice book and thank you Jxrtes

    My opinion:

    1) First part: interesting type profiles. I found the Ne-as-leading-function description rather accurate: "the external situation must make sense". Basically, Se focus on the self, Ne on the whole. That's why Ne types see Se as selfish and narrow minded. I'll add more about this later.

    2) The math chapter: in short, with N attributes N+1 types can be defined, with 2^(whatever) different traits. Lots of independent researchers have reached the same conclusion, and it seems the universe works this way etc etc

    3) Types in different situations: don't you think all of them sound the same? For me, it's like reading the horoscope report
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  10. #90
    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Holy Temple of St. Augusta
    Posts
    3,682
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Attached.
    Ahh I enjoyed the book. Especially the behavior descriptions. Thanks OP.
    Socionics will be the death of me. Lol

    Are there any more available?
    (i)NTFS

    An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
    and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI

    31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
    My work on Inert/Contact subtypes

    Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
    Socionics Tests Database
    Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites


    Fidei Defensor

  11. #91
    limNol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Philadelphia
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    130
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This looks awesome; thanks for sharing it. Always a treat to find comprehensive stuff on socionics in coherent English.

  12. #92
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,485
    Mentioned
    172 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I didn't find the delta type descriptions all that good.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  13. #93
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,814
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't have microsoft word. Is there a way to open this without giving mr. william gates money?

  14. #94
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,485
    Mentioned
    172 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    I don't have microsoft word. Is there a way to open this without giving mr. william gates money?
    can u try opening it as a .txt file, like in a notepad? From what you said, I assume your computer is probably not a PC I'm unfortunately not too familiar with using macs.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  15. #95
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,814
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    can u try opening it as a .txt file, like in a notepad? From what you said, I assume your computer is probably not a PC I'm unfortunately not too familiar with using macs.
    It's PC but a netbook and without ms office.

  16. #96
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,814
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Apparently I have something called Microsoft Works.

  17. #97
    Creepy-male

    Default

    OpenOffice.org is a good free alternative.

  18. #98
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,814
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you! Microsoft Words doesn't.

  19. #99
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,584
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This book came from me, btw, not jerkzeez.

  20. #100
    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Spain
    TIM
    ILE (ENTp)
    Posts
    4,862
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default x

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    This book came from me, btw, not jerkzeez.
    I always forget you are the one in charge, Vladimir

    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  21. #101
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,584
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ha, nice.

  22. #102
    Cat Lady aixelsyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    509
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7576 View Post
    Thank you, I've been looking for this; but where's the attachment? Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't see the file for download. Can someone help me with that?
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...7&d=1317745744

    I think that would be it.
    Time spent with cats is time well spent.

  23. #103
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,730
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    Thank you. It went missing for some reason. I relinked it on the front page.
    Capitalism is the belief that the rich don't work hard when they don't earn enough, and that the poor don't work hard when they earn too much.

  24. #104
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    7,649
    Mentioned
    663 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default

    Can someone explain to me why the text looks like a rainbow?

    I feel tempted to just colour everything in black for more unity.

  25. #105
    Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    7,649
    Mentioned
    663 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)

    Default

    By the way, it is "C. G. Jung", not "K. G. Jung".

  26. #106
    Contra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    1,404
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    People like to shit on Reinin's dichotomies but I think he has one of the best ILI descriptions I've read and possibly the most succinct, correct definition of Ni.

    His typings could use some work though.

  27. #107
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,630
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    What is Reinin's type?
    ILE is how he self-types I believe.

  28. #108
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,630
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    Thanks! Source?
    list of types of socionists: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...ory:Socionists
    his profile page in wiki: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...inin,_Grigoriy

  29. #109
    spiritual aggressor/volcel Troll Nr 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Playing with your head
    TIM
    ILE-C/H 7(93?)
    Posts
    3,339
    Mentioned
    143 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    That line: "Reinin self-types as ILE, however, several other socionists agree on ILI."

    he does not sound like LII. ILI could make some sense based highly subjective descriptions (dichotomies and so on).

    There is an interview of him:
    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.


  30. #110
    Metaphysician thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    7,393
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    To anyone in the know:

    Does Reinin's functional model (1st/2nd/3rd/4th, Plus/Minus) sync up pretty well with Model A, or is it better to interpret this stuff with a completely blank slate?

    I pulled an all-nighter to (more or less) finish the thing; and, surprisingly, really, really liked it, as he described and defined types/functions/relations in ways I've never really seen or heard before. Hence, the question: Is that because he's looking at things from a very different angle, or is he just kinda flat-out wrong?
    Both

    The book is thought-provoking but not so great as a socionics reference.
    The higher, the fewer

    Articles - Questionnaire - Typology Network - Blog

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •