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Thread: The Israeli–Palestinian conflict

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    Default The Israeli–Palestinian conflict

    I thought it would look quite good on my curriculum vitae if I was to have a Nobel Prize for something or other...so I'm aiming to get one in 2011.

    I hope that in this thread, you can offer suggestions in which to bring peas to this area of the Middle East and indeed the whole world, and thus help me to achieve my ulterior motive that everyone knows about.

    Thank You.

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    From my armchair, there are several issues.

    A significant one is whether the Israelis have any right to have a country in its present location. To me, this is not really a particular issue - the country was created from British controlled land, which came from the remains of the Ottoman Empire, a disparate collection of cultures with no real unity.

    It does irritate me though how strongly certain people claim they have a God-given right to such land - on both sides of the debate. I do think that any Israel or Palestine should not be a country exclusively for one "ethnic" group - and I certainly object to houses being demolished and land being taken that is supposedly legally owned by somebody else.

    I also think it is vital to recognise that certain areas of Jerusalem are of huge importance to not just one "ethnic" or religious group - and that all such groups should be allowed access, within reason. This would almost certainly need some neutral peacekeeping force.

    And...both sides would have to sort of promise not to kill each other and to prosecute those who have the habit of going round killing people.

    Apparently someone suggested that the conflict could be resolved by Marmite because this would address some deficient in the diet that is more common this area of the world that may lead to increased aggression. So distributing this would also be good, if it is Kosher, and if it people can stand it.

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    I think that we should take Jerusalam away from the Isrealis and export all the remaining Native Americans to live there with the right to expand their territory.

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    Will you sit amongst Obama, Netanyahu, the Israeli left and right, Arabs both in and out of Israel or maybe you'll take the A. Einstein approach ?

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    xerx's Avatar
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    .
    Last edited by xerx; 05-20-2012 at 03:47 AM.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I agree with Norman Finkelstein (whom I've typed as ILI) when he says that a two-state line should be drawn at the '67 border. And with what he says about the conflict in general.
    The big problem is that Palestinians see this whole area as theirs - not without some reason, because they were the ones living there mostly, until 1946 when the Allied Powers decided to create Israel for the Jewish who also see it as their land because it is written somewhere in some of their holy books that God gave this land to Abraham or Moses, I don´t remember which one.

    So there is actually no solution. Until one of the two sides decide to tolerate each other in 'their' territory, which is very unlikely to happen since Muslims and Jews have been fighting since the beggining of Islam and both would see it as 'total loss' in this war which already has some 2.600 years. Or until one of the sides totally wipe out the opposers. Which is what in my opinion the Jews have been along decades trying to do and the Palestinians like Hamas and Hezbollah have also been trying to do. So either there will be a peaceful solution or one side will 'win' and kill loads of people.

    My suggestion is to wipe away both Muslims and Jews from that land and make it a UN-occupied land where habitation would be prohibited. It´s a harsh but the only solution I see possible is for this land to be taken by a 3rd Power which is neither Jewish nor Muslim.

    note to administrator and moderators: take notice that I did not use any word in a pejorative manner on this post, neither 'Jew' nor 'Muslim'.

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    xerx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    So there is actually no solution. Until one of the two sides decide to tolerate each other in 'their' territory, which is very unlikely to happen since Muslims and Jews have been fighting since the beggining of Islam and both would see it as 'total loss' in this war which already has some 2.600 years.
    That is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. Islam isn't 2600 hundred years old; it was founded in the 7th century ad and is between 13-1400 years old. You're thinking of the Babylonian Captivity.

    More relevant to the OP discussion, there was no "ideological" religious conflict on the scale of what exists today between Muslims and Jews before the 20th century. Under the various Medieval Islamic caliphates, Jews (and christians) were usually tolerated but had to pay a tax to continue practicing their beliefs, unlike in Europe where those beliefs were highly stigmatized and often illegal. They were essentially second class citizens compared to muslims, but pogroms were few and far in between. And while not nearly up to modern standards of tolerance, I'd much rather have been a Jew living in Istanbul or Cairo than a Jew living in Toledo or Paris at the turn of the 16th century.

    There were major fundamentalist outbursts, even culminating in killings, many times (especially considering that Islamic history had had its share of religious obscurantism); that should be noted so nobody gets the wrong idea that it was all nice and peachy as opposed to the primitive medieval society that it was. But the overall historical trend is not the "celestial" war you're describing.

    note to administrator and moderators: take notice that I did not use any word in a pejorative manner on this post, neither 'Jew' nor 'Muslim'.
    Noted.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    It's interesting you talk of this as I just watched a video on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I don't know everything about the situation, but it seems to me that Israel should give back all the land they took from the Palestinians, as in 100%, move their people out of the area, and move their giant walls out of territory they don't own. The two countries should agree to keep their land at what it is and be happy with the other existing and not continually try to poke at one another or outright commit acts of terror. Both sides may think that they have a God given right to the land, but I think that if one is ever to receive the land that is "theirs" they must figure out some peaceful and lawful way to do that.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    I'm from israel...I feel like there is no solution to the problem.

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    I know I'm in the minority on this one and I'm not going to convince anybody, but I think that land is Israel's. It's always been their land, even prior to 1948. Now, I don't think Israel should go around bulldozing every Palestinian home in sight, but technically they are trespassing on Jewish property.
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    A paragraph from some wikipedia article:

    Many attempts have been made to broker a two-state solution, involving the creation of an independent Palestinian state alongside an independent Jewish state or next to the State of Israel (after Israel's establishment in 1948). As recently as 2007, a majority of both Israelis and Palestinians, according to a number of polls, prefer the two-state solution over any other solution as a means of resolving the conflict.[4] Moreover, a considerable majority of the Jewish public sees the Palestinians' demand for an independent state as just, and thinks Israel can agree to the establishment of such a state.[5] A majority of Palestinians and Israelis view the West Bank and Gaza Strip as an acceptable location of the hypothetical Palestinian state in a two-state solution.[6] However, there are significant areas of disagreement over the shape of any final agreement and also regarding the level of credibility each side sees in the other in upholding basic commitments.[7]
    Doesn't seem to be so bad as I had thought - but I do know that it is generally the older generations that are more willing to "compromise".

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