Gamma support Gamma anons

[aixelsyd]

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[stevENTj]

Well that was a lot.

I can relate to a lot of what you've mentioned, but somehow you've gotten into a very bad place with all of this where you don't feel you can really be yourself or open up to anyone, and that's never a good thing.

Growing up I realized that I always seemed to say the 'wrong' thing, and as a result I became very shy and quiet. Even in a small group of friends that I eventually found, I never felt fully 'safe' speaking out and was the quiet one even within that group. It wasn't until I met my wife in freshman year of college that I found someone I could truly be open with, and for the first time I felt safe being myself.

With age comes experience, and with experience comes the ability to recognize when you should keep to yourself, and when you should let loose with your thoughts. When the ship is off course and heading for a waterfall, that's when you let loose full tilt. Otherwise just let people yack it up and have their fun. ILIs often don't make the invite list to parties because people figure out what kill-joys we can be. When they have no clue they're all about the crash and burn and you pull them out of the nose dive, they'll appreciate you and have a new found respect, though.

As far as friendships and relationships, if you can't be yourself around your friends, maybe they shouldn't be your friends. Either your friends will accept you for who and what you are, or they won't and they're not really your friends. If that's the case, find new friends who will accept and even appreciate you for what you are. No need to waste time otherwise, and no need to be hiding behind walls either. When you stop hiding, you'll know who your friends really are, too. They'll like and appreciate you even more, and the other ones will fade away.

I realize that was pretty generic advice, but hopefully it made some sense.

[nanashi]

For one, I struggle with stress anxiety and anxiety in general to the point where it affects my physical health (i.e. lately I have been waking up with nausea and sometimes I get very ill from psychological stress).
I wake up in the morning and these fears are tangible. I feel sick. Maybe I get sick. Maybe I don't. I am tired. I am weak. I don't want to bother with my appearance. I don't want to bother with people. I try to busy my mind with plans for the day, things I need to work on, etc than to think about my deep seated fears.subconscious fears and thinking patterns until I am forced to, as said.

I thought about not posting this, but figured some people might relate/find it encouraging or something.

I have done all you wrote with a detail switched. I'm just going to hold your hand over the internet, aixelsyd (it's okay 'cause it's over the internet---this is how my ILI twin and I have to comfort each other:"It's okay; it's just an air hug from over here," etc)


I'm truly glad to read what your wrote.

One thing has helped me (I've had tons of anxiety for the same reasons you mentioned): hang out near your friends/acquaintances while they see others of their friends. Seems intimidating and noxious, but I can always have the back-up/escape plan:"I need to go. (insert confident smile while turning away and walking) Bye guys!" What purpose: people actually find us polite and courteous and gentlewomanly/gentlemanly. We can come off as noble. What I'm trying to say is we can add friends (some I've gotten this way are ENTp, ENTJ, INTp, and I love. Love.)

[nanashi]

p.s. I love the part about the walking on the beach, meditating, connecting to greater thing, praying you wrote about. Sigh.

[stevENTj]

I miss the walking and running that I used to do for exercise. Had to quit that because my large frame absolutely tears up my feet. Loved it though. Some nice peace and quiet, just me, nobody else, and the wind on my face. A great time to reflect on things and contemplate life and its happenings. I don't get nearly enough of that these days. Busy busy busy busy busy, all the time.

[Bardia]

I too experienced periods of intense and mild anxiety on and off for the past year and a half that would make me sick to my stomach and unable to sleep at times. I think I am finally getting out of that cycle though. But I, like you, tend to negatively evaluate the future and that has caused a lot of my anxiety. I went to see a counselor and also bought a cognitive behavioral therapy workbook, both of which I found helpful. It helps you to really challenge the negative thoughts you have, which helps you to overtime not really have them. I would say practicing that along with challenging some of the ideas by setting myself up in situations to overcome them and just accepting that I can deal with negative things in my life has helped me overcome my anxiety. Though, I obviously understand this doesn't work for everyone and isn't necessarily something that is easy. I am glad you seem to be getting out of your current period of anxiety.

Relationships for me are difficult as well. I feel like I want deeper friendships than many people are willing to create and foster. I also feel that many people don't get me, but a lot of people say the same thing so maybe this is something universal. I have a fear that people think I am boring or too sensitive but I've got some friends so I must be doing something right lol.

I am kind of curious what you experienced in your religious extremism you once followed if you don't mind sharing.

[nanashi]

I miss the walking and running that I used to do for exercise. Had to quit that because my large frame absolutely tears up my feet. Loved it though. Some nice peace and quiet, just me, nobody else, and the wind on my face. A great time to reflect on things and contemplate life and its happenings. I don't get nearly enough of that these days. Busy busy busy busy busy, all the time.

I am rather hard on my joints and tall frame, so biking is way awesome. Wind in your hair, huge leg muscles, and (as long as your bike seat is high enough, less impact on some body parts). I hear swimming is AMAZING, but I don't have a bathing suit/don't wanna pay/don't have a pool, etc.

[stevENTj]

Then my problem with bikes is that my football player body at 6'3" and 250 lbs, the amount of power I can put through a bike will rip it to shreds in a hurry unless it's one helluva strongly built bike, which costs way more $$$$ than I'd be willing to spend on a bike. The last bike I had, in college, I was pumping hard up a hill going at a pretty good clip when I managed to snap the crank assembly right in half and went down. That was fun. It's also the last time I've ridden a bike I think too. I also managed to use an elliptical machine enough to break it, and it was a pretty sturdily built semi-pro machine too. The only stuff that will 'handle' me is fully professionaly built gear that's designed to be beat on all day every day like what they put in gyms, which is more than I'd want to own for personal use. So I'm old school now. Sit-ups, push-up with bar supports, dumbell weights, etc. Simple stuff that you're not going to break. 30-45 minutes at least 3 times per week, and preferably 4-5.

Anyways, can't say that I can really relate to having panic attacks or anxiety issues. You can't control everything in your life. The stuff I can control I take care of, and then I don't have to worry about it anymore. The stuff I can't control, it helps to have a little faith in God or whatever your belief system happens to be to watch over you. If you don't have one, maybe you should get one, and preferably a non-extremist one. :wink: I'm also generally an optimist and believe that things have a way of working out, so I don't get caught in endless downward spirals of thoughts and feelings. My wife does, though, so it's a good thing that I don't. If you're a negativist gamma (ILI or ESI), it's good to have a positivist (LIE or SEE, or whomever) to bounce things off of and they can help lift you out of this.

BTW anxiety issues are treatable medically. If you suffer from it a lot, it's not something you need to live with. Go see a doctor maybe?

[stevENTj]

Relationships for me are difficult as well. I feel like I want deeper friendships than many people are willing to create and foster. I also feel that many people don't get me, but a lot of people say the same thing so maybe this is something universal. I have a fear that people think I am boring or too sensitive but I've got some friends so I must be doing something right lol.

Same thing here. I think feeling misunderstood is a universal thing, but that there's probably also some unique Gamma aspects of that as well.

[Bardia]

BTW anxiety issues are treatable medically. If you suffer from it a lot, it's not something you need to live with. Go see a doctor maybe?

That statement is HIGHLY debatable. Medications don't work for everyone and they often have many unpleasant side effects. Therapy has been found just as likely to be effective, but the most effective approach is obviously therapy and medications since some people respond better to one or the other. Benzos have less negative effects but can slowly lead to dependence. Anti-depressants that they give for anxiety can have horrible side effects. I tried sertaline (generic zoloft) and it made me feel worse than any anxiety I had ever had. I couldn't hardly sleep or eat. It also made me want to go play in traffic. For some people they work like wonder drugs though .

[stevENTj]

Yeah I know all of that. I'm just saying it's treatable, and consider seeing a doctor. Didn't mean to imply that there are miracle drugs out there that will work for everyone without side effects, if that's what you were getting.

[Bardia]

Yeah I know all of that. I'm just saying it's treatable, and consider seeing a doctor. Didn't mean to imply that there are miracle drugs out there that will work for everyone without side effects, if that's what you were getting.

I see. I guess I mostly wanted to say that maybe a doctor isn't the first person you should go to.

[Creepy-Korpsey]

@OP: Amusingly enough I came across this thread a few weeks ago while looking for signs of positivity in the ILI zone. Hmmm...

For what it's worth I find your posts insightful and well written. As you've mentioned about yourself elsewhere, my upbringing was also highly abusive, so it's very easy for me to identify with the trust issues you've described and concerns with hurting or being hurt by others.

Though I don't know how well you see it, your posts often contain a lot of the answers you seem to be looking for. The calming and fortification of meditation, the ups that go with the downs of opening yourself to others, the desire to be self-improving not just for your benefit but for that of those around you. It goes without saying that these are all salutary things, even if attaining and maintaining them is sometimes arduous or goes unrecognized.

Events last year presented me with what felt like an unendurable existential crisis. A friend who's something of a mystic seeker (INF?) took note of my struggles and said that while she finds it admirable when someone can overcome adversity to emerge from their personal darkness, she really looks up to those who can then depart from the comfort and safety of the light and return to their inner darkness to face their primordial demons, and, vanquishing them, emerge once again, bringing out a light from within. Usually I take her unicorn and stardust talk with a goodly dose of salt, but that image has really stuck with me. I think with your writing and mindfulness of others you're well situated to perform the feat she illustrated, not only healing your wounds over time but also being an exemplar of fortitude and perseverance that others will find worthy of emulation.

This was originally going to be a private message but I thought I'd be a little less hermetic and guarded than usual by posting it here.

Toujours en avant!

[EyeSeeCold]

I realize that a lot of people do care and are not trying to hurt me and will less likely hurt me so long as I don't beat around the bush and pretend things are okay when they are not or hide my suspicions until they become a self-fulfilling prophecy because of my own behavior subconsciously affecting how people will act towards me by little things I say and do which I do not even register doing.

This is the worst part. When I realize the power I have to change my image, I just fall back into the habits of the old one because I'm hesitant to open up my true self. Even when I know the people won't crucify me for doing so.

[reclaimpower]

Yeah, I write a lot. It's what helps me to make sense of things I otherwise wouldn't make sense of, but maybe it's too much for a forum. I guess I should call it quits for a while as I feel less and less welcome for some reason as well as misinterpreted and judged with great inaccuracy, but I hope somebody feels it wasn't a waste to at least try and show a different side how a person can be.

For what its worth, I don't think you should call it quits. Now I know its not worth much since you don't know me and I don't know you, plus, I lurk, I have no interest really in saying much ever cuz its draining for me to give just little posts, and my computer is dying, but I do read the forum everyday, even though I don't often log in, and I like what you have to say. I admire your honesty, and I think here you have found a sort of voice, to contemplate and share things that you otherwise might not in a different setting. I think its as important for you to write it, as it is for some people to hear it.

Personally, I found a lot of value in what you said in just this thread, and related to bits, and bits reminded me of people I know who probably needed to read this sort of thing, and other bits just have value for the sincerity portrayed in them, I don't know, just, you hoped somebody feels that it wasn't a waste, and I feel that it isn't, some value has been found in what you wrote, and I hope you continue to write more here.

As for the not feeling welcome, just because some people are vocal enough to criticize you, in what I consider an unfair way, doesn't mean that everyone who reads your posts are going to reject them, I mean seriously, you have a lurker telling you to not quit posting, you must be doing something right. I don't know why people would have issues with what you've been saying, there are an infinite number of possiblities, maybe the most relevant in this forum would be something like Fe vs Fi valuing or something like that, I really don't know, but what you say is not going unheard, or unappreciated.

K, done being creepy for the day. Just, don't think everyone has issues against what you're saying here, and that its "inappropriate" for this forum. After all, socionics is a tool for self understanding, and how can you do that if you're not willing to look toward all facets of yourself, and face yourself with honesty. You are not only doing that for yourself, but in a way are helping other people do so, or at least, in a certain respect, thats how I've recieved what you've said.

So.... there.