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    Default Help me decide once and for all

    So I'm a pretty strong INFJ in MBTI. I seem to relate better to the EII description than IEI, but I'm hoping maybe some of you might have some good qualifier questions to help me figure out which one I really am, since I have some things in common with both.

    Thanks.
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    If you're confused between strongest functions, sometimes it's easier to type yourself by weakest function (polr), and even by temperament.

    EII: IJ temperament, Polr, hidden agenda, Delta quadra
    IEI: IP temperament, Polr, hidden agenda, Beta quadra

    You can read about all of that stuff here and elsewhere.

    Most people here thought and viewed me as an ENTj for awhile, but I just couldn't relate to what it meant to have a polr and an hidden agenda, which can be interpreted as 'to be powerful'. Just not the type of person I am. I can 'switch hit' for quite awhile and be either EJ or IP, but I'm definitely 'most comfortable' at rest (IP) and not out doing stuff (EJ).

    You can go through a similar process that way with yourself and see what makes the most sense.

    Oh also look at quadra values, editing in above. Delta vs Beta is a pretty big difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    So I'm a pretty strong INFJ in MBTI. I seem to relate better to the EII description than IEI, but I'm hoping maybe some of you might have some good qualifier questions to help me figure out which one I really am, since I have some things in common with both.

    Thanks.
    So you are INFJ and relate best to EII.

    Why the heck do you doubt about IEI then?

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    If you're only investigating IEI 'because j and p flip-flop between mbti and socionics, I think the consensus now is that's not true so you might not even need to consider it.

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    Another XXXX=XXXx in the box eh? This is getting way too easy.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    If you're only investigating IEI 'because j and p flip-flop between mbti and socionics, I think the consensus now is that's not true so you might not even need to consider it.
    I understand that. I'm only still considering it because some INFJ's can be IEI's. And also because, when I first got really into MBTI and functions, I could see a lot of Ni use in myself. But then, I've also always had a strong Ne. And Fi and Fe are both quite strong as well. And of all the dichotomies, the J/P was the most difficult for me to figure out, but I finally settled on INFJ because it fit me so perfectly.

    I can't say the same about EII, though it still seems a better fit than IEI, for the most part.

    You know what, though. After just reading the IEI and EII descriptions from wikisocion again, I think the latter is definitely a better fit than I first thought.

    And I can say with absolute certainty that I am not a Beta.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Answer these questions as honestly as you can.

    1. Describe the perfect hierarchy.
    2. What kind of power people (that others seem to admire) annoy you? Why?
    3. Why do people kill others?
    4. Describe the perfect boss (for you) and what she does that makes it easy for you to succeed.
    Oh gosh, those are too deep for me... Not that I wouldn't enjoy discussing them, but it would take me pages and pages to type up all my thoughts, and then to pare it all down and organize it into something structurally sound...there just aren't enough minutes in the day!

    But good food for thought nonetheless
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    organize it into something structurally sound...
    And we haaaaaave a winner! INFj.

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    Default one more question...

    Also, what about my subtype? I've seen some type identifications on these forums like, "ILI-IEE," etc. (don't know if that's a possible combination, I just pulled it out of nowhere to illustrate) What's that about? I think I'm probably more the Ethical (psychologist) subtype than the iNtuitive (teacher). How would that be shown in a 6-letter type code?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    And we haaaaaave a winner! INFj.
    Haha, thanks... somehow, this just totally made my evening
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Also, what about my subtype? I've seen some type identifications on these forums like, "ILI-IEE," etc. (don't know if that's a possible combination, I just pulled it out of nowhere to illustrate) What's that about? I think I'm probably more the Ethical (psychologist) subtype than the iNtuitive (teacher). How would that be shown in a 6-letter type code?
    Someone else can explain this better than I can (I'm still learning). That construct you've quoted, ILI-IEE, comes from dual-typing theory--see posts by tcaudillig and others under User Hypotheses and Alternative Theories. The second type in that case is an EM (energy metabolism) type considered to be different from your IM (information metabolism) type.

    Then, let's see, there are subtypes, as you mentioned:

    EII subtypes - Wikisocion

    And see also this thread:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-subtypes.html

    for information on DCNH subtypes.

    Anyone who knows more or can put this more lucidly, please chime in here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Haha, thanks... somehow, this just totally made my evening
    Lol. I was just kidding. Sort of.

    But also, "Oh, gosh" doesn't sound like a Beta interjection to me. 'Course, that's hemmed in by social background etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Lol. I was just kidding. Sort of.
    And I kinda guessed that, too... It just made me laugh.
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    Try this:

    What kind of people do you get along with? why?

    or.. if that's too hard, describe your best friends and then describe your other friends. What's the difference,and why are your best friends your best friends?
    3w4-5w6-9w8

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Oh gosh, those are too deep for me... Not that I wouldn't enjoy discussing them, but it would take me pages and pages to type up all my thoughts, and then to pare it all down and organize it into something structurally sound...there just aren't enough minutes in the day!

    But good food for thought nonetheless
    Are you kidding? INFj's are action oriented. Just answer the darn questions the best you can and get the job done. You have weak or undervalued Se, that's all I can tell from your writing thus far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Are you kidding? INFj's are action oriented. Just answer the darn questions the best you can and get the job done.
    Yes, Ma'am Anyway, I've got some time now (since it's almsot 12 AM and I can't sleep. Ugh).

    1. Describe the perfect hierarchy.
    Can you please define "hierarchy"? (There, I've managed to postpone one, at least.)

    2. What kind of power people (that others seem to admire) annoy you? Why?
    People who only care about results, and will go to any means-- even uethical ones-- to get there. People who don't care about the effects their demands, criticisms, etc., might have on another's psyche.

    3. Why do people kill others?
    Lots of reasons-- pleasure, revenge, impulse, psychosis, self-defense, "honor," power, fear...

    4. Describe the perfect boss (for you) and what she does that makes it easy for you to succeed.
    One who will tell me exactly what she wants done, and-- if it's not something that I already know how to do-- will provide instructions on how to accomplish the objective. One who will respect my intelligence and trust me to produce a good end result on my own, once I'm certain I know what I'm doing. One who will give me concrete deadlines, since I work much harder when I have a deadline.

    You have weak or undervalued Se, that's all I can tell from your writing thus far.
    You are most assuredly correct in that assessment.
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    EII; you have my approval.

    BUT, you could also be LSE; how are you with controling your environment? are you rigid? serious? Are you organized, structured, routine like yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Try this:

    What kind of people do you get along with? why?

    or.. if that's too hard, describe your best friends and then describe your other friends. What's the difference,and why are your best friends your best friends?
    Hmm, this one's a little difficult to answer, at this time, since I'm so wrapped up in my family that they're pretty much the only people I could call best friends. My husband is my best friend...

    A best friend, for me, has often simply meant the person who I feel physically as well as emotionally closest to. In other words, I have a hard time calling someone my "best friend," even if we have a lot in common and get along well, if we aren't also able to spend a lot of quality time together.

    I had a difficult time identifying my "best friend" in school, since it always seemed like, no matter how much I wanted a particular person to be my best friend, someone else always came first for that person. I also had a lot of promising close relationships get cut short by the friend moving and then we'd lose contact with each other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    EII; you have my approval.
    Does this mean you can relate to my answers?

    BUT, you could also be LSE;
    Now that's funny...
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    Yes I can.

    What do you think about LSE as an option? What things about it don't fit?

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    after answering those questions its pretty clear EII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Does this mean you can relate to my answers?
    I'm guessing she could, and for the record, I couldn't (IEI). Your responses struck me as INFj.

    Good questions, Ananke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Hmm, this one's a little difficult to answer, at this time, since I'm so wrapped up in my family that they're pretty much the only people I could call best friends. My husband is my best friend...

    A best friend, for me, has often simply meant the person who I feel physically as well as emotionally closest to. In other words, I have a hard time calling someone my "best friend," even if we have a lot in common and get along well, if we aren't also able to spend a lot of quality time together.

    I had a difficult time identifying my "best friend" in school, since it always seemed like, no matter how much I wanted a particular person to be my best friend, someone else always came first for that person. I also had a lot of promising close relationships get cut short by the friend moving and then we'd lose contact with each other.
    What kind of people are you able to get close to, and what kind are you not able to?
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    I am able to get close to the type of people who are soft and gentle, who, even if they look ripped are able to exude some sort of gentleness and gentle spirit and "protective" nature without coming off as possessive. I also have an ease of time conversing with women, because they don't have expectations of me beyond who I am, mainly sexually. I prefer funny and upbeat people as opposed to constantly emotionally down people, even thought, the "downers" attract me to help and comfort them.

    Even though, in periods of time, I can have fun with obnoxious people, when they overdo it, I get really annoyed at myself for being with them and then I can't stand their company for much longer.

    I like enthusiasm but I don't like extreme hysteria or hysterical crying.

    Use the above for comparison/contrast.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-05-2010 at 07:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    How would you answer?
    In a long-winded craptabulous way that never once mentions being "ethical." Like this:

    1. Describe the perfect hierarchy.

    There is no such thing as a perfect hierarchy. It totally depends on the situation and the people involved. I'll use a writing critique group I belong to as an example of a hierarchy that works extremely well for me and its members. There is a leader, and the group revolves around his charismatic personality and wide-ranging knowledge, as well as his ability to cut through a bunch of shit and just be honest. He does a fine job of keeping inflatable egos only half-filled. We members pay him for his time, so that we all feel committed to being there and he remains willing to put up with us.

    As for the rest of us, the hierarchy forms loosely. It's only implied. Some of us have been members of the group longer than others and tend to emerge as voices of authority. But in any given situation, one person's insights will be more relevant than another's, based on the work being scrutinized, and therefore authority pleasantly shifts among members.

    The shitty members who tend to drop out are the ones who have nothing useful to offer to anyone, and they get replaced quarterly by people who actually belong there.

    2. What kind of power people (that others seem to admire) annoy you? Why?

    Power in the hands of stupid people is the most annoying. I don't care if the person is right or wrong, but if they're just dumb, then how can they accomplish anything? Who will respect them? And if people DO respect a dumb leader owing only to their ideology, then I lose faith in all of freaking humanity. This is the thing that drives me bananas in the case of someone like Sarah Barracuda Fucking Palin.

    That's a big example, but a small one is when an organization that specializes in something particular brings in a person who is just a generalized manager but doesn't really know anything about the specialty. How is such a person supposed to lead? It makes no sense at all. In that case the person may not be stupid in general, but is stupid about the very thing they most need to know something about.

    3. Why do people kill others?

    I always try to understand the greater social constructs that frame an act like murder. I tend to find that murderers are either a product of a hopelessly negative social environment, OR they have psychiatric disturbances that went overlooked, OR they have psychiatric disturbances that aren't yet understood well enough for the offender to be categorized as ill. (Example: There's a scientist who's been studying the brains of violent prison inmates and has found a very specific brain deformity in many of them.) Or a combination of these things--maybe a fucked-up social environment can foster physical problems that we still don't fully understand.

    4. Describe the perfect boss (for you) and what she does that makes it easy for you to succeed.

    My favorite bosses are able to carry out the essential boss-ly functions involved in running an organization BUT are also able to be inspiring mentors. My ideal boss is someone I can emulate and learn from, so that someday maybe I can be the boss myself, or at least I will have learned a lot during my time working under her.

    I want my boss to have some idealism and enthusiasm and be able to impart to me and to others the big picture of why we do what we do. I want the boss to set a tone that makes my work meaningful, and that will carry me through the roll-up-sleeves nitty-gritty.

    That said, Dear Boss: Please don't be a pussy.

    - - - - -
    Voila.
    Last edited by golden; 10-05-2010 at 08:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post

    What do you think about LSE as an option? What things about it don't fit?
    In a nutshell...Logical, Sensing, and Extravert

    Lacking a good Dual (which for EII would be LSE) in my life, I have had to take on some LSE characteristics at times to get things done; but, none of it really comes naturally. If anything, I become more like the LSE when under stress, or when things get "down to the wire." When I'm really free to be myself, though, LSE would not be my preference. This is from a preliminary scan of the LSE description on Wikisocion. I'll have to take some time later today to read through more carefully.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    The point was to hear what you answered, so please define it yourself. I'd really like to hear what you say.
    Okay, then...The first definition that came to mind when I saw the word "hierarchy" was government, so...

    Ideally, all people would be allowed to pretty much govern themselves. In a perfect society, everyone would get along and "be nice" without coercion. Then we'd all be free to pursue our lives in the way we each chose, as long as long as we did not infringe on others' rights to live their lives as well.

    Human nature will not allow for that, however. So the next best thing is a government (either large-scale or small-scale; even in a work setting this "hierarchy" could work) where certain leaders are elected by the people to represent them, but that can also be "de-elected" if they fail to fulfill the expectations of the people. In other words, a good leader is only a good leader so long as the majority of people are willing to follow him.

    So not original, but there you have it.
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    Have people ever told you that you mimic other people's emotions a lot?

    What's your job or education.

    Are you soft spoken compared to the average person?

    Are you timid?

    Do you like to write poems?

    Well you're EII anyways, but just asking for fun then :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    I understand that. I'm only still considering it because some INFJ's can be IEI's. And also because, when I first got really into MBTI and functions, I could see a lot of Ni use in myself. But then, I've also always had a strong Ne. And Fi and Fe are both quite strong as well. And of all the dichotomies, the J/P was the most difficult for me to figure out, but I finally settled on INFJ because it fit me so perfectly.
    First of all, elements and functions differ between systems, especially as they're understood in online communities. I could never relate to Ni-dominance as it's fainted over on some INTJ forums, but socionics made it quite clear that neither was I Ti-dominant. I don't have a problem with being INTP/INTp. MBTI simply doesn't work all this well matching dichotomies with functions.

    Also, I think that hard to determine MBTI P/J points towards a static type, as this dichotomy contrasts typical Ip/Ej characteristics. Though I suppose subtype could affect this as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Have people ever told you that you mimic other people's emotions a lot?
    Not that I've been told, but it's probably true that I tend to mimic emotions. Or at least attempt to feel with them, whether or not I'm showing it on the outside.

    What's your job or education.
    I'm a SAHM right now. I'm on track to becoming a personal trainer in another year or two. I want to work with pregnant and post-partum women. I would love to be "not-for-profit" once I could afford it.

    Are you soft spoken compared to the average person?
    Probably. Though I also know how to project my voice through vocal training, and when I yell-- I YELL.

    Are you timid?
    Timid-- I don't think so. Reserved-- YES.

    Do you like to write poems?
    Rarely. Prose is my medium of choice.

    Well you're EII anyways, but just asking for fun then :-)
    And it has been fun for me. Thank you Rarely do I get such opportunities to talk about myself...
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    Default Back, with a new possiblitiy...

    Intuitive Ethical Extratim - Wikisocion

    If this were me, I would be the Ethical subtype...
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pianosinger View Post
    Intuitive Ethical Extratim - Wikisocion

    If this were me, I would be the Ethical subtype...
    I go back and forth between Fi-IEE and EII too, but i think i lean more heavily to the IEE side.

    Welcome to delta!! And I agree u are delta NF.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I go back and forth between Fi-IEE and EII too, but i think i lean more heavily to the IEE side.
    Thanks! I'm glad I'm not the only one...What are some things that make you lean more to IEE than EII?

    The following is from Wikisocion, IEE Domain page...It made me laugh (well, internally, anyway):

    Ideal work schedule for an IEE
    1.Find a project you're excited about
    2.Work on it for 20 hours straight or for two days straight, morning till night
    3.Crash and sleep as long as you want
    4.For one whole day do something really enjoyable that has nothing to do with your project
    5.Spend the next day chatting with old friends and having conversations with people you are just getting to know
    6.Return to step 1
    In reality, it's not the way I operate; but I probably would if I allowed myself...

    Is there a thread somewhere just for IEE's? I might have to go make one if there's not...
    My life's work (haha):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
    Input, PLEASEAnd thank you

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    Removed at User Request

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    Ideal work schedule for an IEE
    1.Find a project you're excited about
    2.Work on it for 20 hours straight or for two days straight, morning till night
    3.Crash and sleep as long as you want
    4.For one whole day do something really enjoyable that has nothing to do with your project
    5.Spend the next day chatting with old friends and having conversations with people you are just getting to know
    6.Return to step 1
    Welcome to my woild.

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