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Thread: what about distinguishing between ESI and LII?

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Default what about distinguishing between ESI and LII?

    I know this woman whom I've considered LII for some time now who claims she's ISFj (MBTI). Could be, I guess? She has trouble with self-confidence and over-thinking things. She doesn't seem to enjoy parties at all--I think she fakes it that she's having fun--she usually plants herself in one spot and talks to one or two people, and then goes home with a headache. I consider her really organized but maybe she works harder to be that way than I think. There's a chance she could be LSI. I should do a VI page but I don't have good pics of her. She's not a happy person and expresses signs of depression so it's hard to type people like that. She's non-dualized and in an unhappy marriage.

    this thread could be in the "what's my type" subforum I suppose.
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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that an MBTI ISFJ is actually Si Fe in function.
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    MBTI functions are wrong (even within their own system). That would only mean something if J/P switch worked in most cases. In this particular case I would try to find her club using socionics definitions of S/N and T/F. Go for how she carries herself and how expressive she is.
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    Its been proven that most people who score as INTJ in MBTI are also INTj in socionics, and most people who score as INTP in MBTI are INTp in socionics. Its true that in MBTI ISFJ is SiFe, however when most socionists try to type the MBTI people they fail to realize that the MBTI people do not type themselves by function, but by four letters.

    I thought for the longest time my mom was ISTj(LSI) but when I had her sit down and take a test she scored as INFx which really took me off. The we sat down and discussed her type, and came to the conclusion that shes INFj. I would suggest doing the same thing here. Have them read the descriptions(try more then one description) of the type you think they are, then of the type they think they are and see what they think. Maybe have them take a good test also and try to narrow it down.

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    well there's no way in hell she's SiFe.

    She's cold especially if you don't know her well, and can be bitchy but tries to hide it. She gets her self-worth from "helping" people and serving people and living up to her own perfectionistic standards. She has trouble with change in general. Doesn't like the feel of make-up on her skin but will wear a little bit of it for social occasions. She stands very straight. She prides herself on her cooking and baking. Very bookish. Probably an E-5w6 or 1w2 or 6w5. Into traditions and sad when they have to change for whatever reason. Often ruled by fear. Fear she will die of a disease or a car crash or whatever.

    If she's FiSe, she'd be Fi subtype I think.
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    You could always post photos and we can try and VI her

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    well there's no way in hell she's SiFe.

    She's cold especially if you don't know her well, and can be bitchy but tries to hide it. She gets her self-worth from "helping" people and serving people and living up to her own perfectionistic standards. She has trouble with change in general. Doesn't like the feel of make-up on her skin but will wear a little bit of it for social occasions. She stands very straight. She prides herself on her cooking and baking. Very bookish. Probably an E-5w6 or 1w2 or 6w5. Into traditions and sad when they have to change for whatever reason. Often ruled by fear. Fear she will die of a disease or a car crash or whatever.

    If she's FiSe, she'd be Fi subtype I think.
    she sounds like an ESI

    Why did you think she was LII?
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    She's cold especially if you don't know her well, and can be bitchy but tries to hide it. She gets her self-worth from "helping" people and serving people and living up to her own perfectionistic standards. She has trouble with change in general.
    Sounds extremely ISFj

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    She prides herself on her cooking and baking. Very bookish. Probably an E-5w6 or 1w2 or 6w5.
    Sounds INTj. A lot of ISFj's love to read sometimes but idk if they would be described as bookish. I don't see many ISFj's with an e-5 type or wing.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Into traditions and sad when they have to change for whatever reason. Often ruled by fear. Fear she will die of a disease or a car crash or whatever.
    Sounds vaguely ISFj > INTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    she sounds like an ESI

    Why did you think she was LII?
    she doesn't dress that well and seems to not care about her appearance all that much. Kinda frumpy. I think I had it in my mind that ESIs would be more... interested in such things. She appears very organized, uses lists and schedules out everyone's day and tries to create systems for her family members to be more organized as well. She's very into gardening, which I suppose is ESI>LII. She looooooves to read. I feel like she responds pretty well to my Fe also.
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    yeah the more I read these ESI descriptions, the more I'm thinking she could certainly be ESI. very interesting.

    (ugh, I sometimes suck at typing people)
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    I think most of what you said in this thread points to a not-quite-healthy Enneagram 1w2 or 2w1 more than any sociotype. She seems to take more of a Logical perspective in realizing this agenda, though. What of LSx types?

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    Yeah, given the choice, ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I think most of what you said in this thread points to a not-quite-healthy Enneagram 1w2 or 2w1 more than any sociotype. She seems to take more of a Logical perspective in realizing this agenda, though. What of LSx types?
    I've considered LSI, yes. There's no way she's LSE. She's not Si ego and she's extremely introverted.
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    Sounds INTj. A lot of ISFj's love to read sometimes but idk if they would be described as bookish. I don't see many ISFj's with an e-5 type or wing.
    Do INTjs like to read? I never see how the description of an analyst immediately warrants that assumption.

    (for what little it's worth I myself much prefer quick reference materials over books. Reading books from cover to cover always seems like a huge waste of time to me)

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    Yes cover to cover would be more of an ESI thing. Bookish for LII (stereotype that we read all the time) is quite outdated now that the internet has all the information we need. But in the olden days, LII's would be seen as the ones who are reading all the time.

    I took the word bookish to mean book smart and not "usually seen with a book in her hand".
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    she sounds EII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    she sounds EII.
    yeah, as i was reading the thread i was thinking EII might not be out of the picture. i can't pin down a type from what's here, but if you're stuck between LII and ESI i think it makes sense to consider EII.

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    yeah. could be EII. *sigh* poor dear.

    (her husband is SLE)
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    lol, does one of them look like a guardian angel or do they just fight all the time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    yeah, as i was reading the thread i was thinking EII might not be out of the picture. i can't pin down a type from what's here, but if you're stuck between LII and ESI i think it makes sense to consider EII.
    I don't believe EIIs have a tendency to schedule other people's lives. Just imagine how it would play out in their duality, LSEs are among the most organized types, they would immediately clash with someone that tried to impose an alternative structure over their life. On the other hand both ESEs and LIEs (result positivist extraverts) can be scattered when it comes to daily routine, so both LIIs and ESIs can (if needed) plan other peoples' lives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    She has trouble with self-confidence and over-thinking things.
    As many people, especially women!

    She doesn't seem to enjoy parties at all--I think she fakes it that she's having fun--she usually plants herself in one spot and talks to one or two people, and then goes home with a headache.
    Many people have low self esteem and issues, especially Se people.

    I consider her really organized but maybe she works harder to be that way than I think. There's a chance she could be LSI. I should do a VI page but I don't have good pics of her. She's not a happy person and expresses signs of depression so it's hard to type people like that. She's non-dualized and in an unhappy marriage.
    IMO, LSIs are somewhat happy and tend to joke a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    IMO, LSIs are somewhat happy and tend to joke a lot.
    Yeah, unless they're terribly overworked, they're generally much more jovial than ESIs (I'm not saying it's better - sometimes they're annoyingly talkative ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah, unless they're terribly overworked, they're generally much more jovial than ESIs (I'm not saying it's better - sometimes they're annoyingly talkative ).
    yeah I've found this to be true also. She's not at all overworked and "jovial" is a not a word I'd use to describe her. lol I think ESI probably fits best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Its been proven that most people who score as INTJ in MBTI are also INTj in socionics, and most people who score as INTP in MBTI are INTp in socionics. Its true that in MBTI ISFJ is SiFe, however when most socionists try to type the MBTI people they fail to realize that the MBTI people do not type themselves by function, but by four letters.
    Wrong. That is a myth. Socionics SiFe =/= MBTT SiFe. And MBTT dichotomies =/= Socionic dichotomies. There is no conversion between Socionics and MBTI, your "proof" doesn't exist, and your speculation about what "most people" are is just speculation.
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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    IMO, LSIs are somewhat happy and tend to joke a lot.
    Yeah, unless they're terribly overworked, they're generally much more jovial than ESIs
    This is confirmed by Reinin and is something I have been wanting to get people to notice for a while now:

    LSI: Merry, Emotivist, Carefree, Positivist
    ESI: Serious, Constructivist, Carefree, Negativist

    LSI is Process, though, which roughly means "outwardly critical" or "overtly negative" in certain contexts. They criticize the occasion/processes and sort of react directly to things that go wrong rather than covering them up with flowery words.
    Result is more critical towards one's own performance and/or towards ideals rather than towards occasions and processes ("inwardly critical", "covertly negative").

    (This has to do with the fact that Process/Result determines how Positivism and Negativism distribute over Static/Dynamic in the model A.)

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