Your observations and experiences with LIEs-ENTjs

[gobearcats]

How are they perceived by your types from interactions IRL? Be sure to list your type.

[nanashi]

confident. Really socially: noticeable...and capable...and aware...and interested. Intellectually stimulating. Hot. harsh INTp-Te forgot my sig doesn't include my type anymore

[Azeroffs]

They're basically perfect human beings.

[Trevor]

How are they perceived by your types from interactions IRL? Be sure to list your type.

By me(not by my type) some of them(quantity of them making me believe it's type related, Se-Ganin-HA) are perceived as generally capable and often overtly vocal about it what makes me jealous sometimes(not their general capability but their loudness about it is what makes me jealous sometimes). It's the same thing that sometimes make me jealous of some EJ-Si types, especialy ESFJs.

[DirectorAbbie]

Intelligent. Good managers. Oblivious to taste.

[xerx]

IME: Over achievers. The Golden Boy. Highly compliant to personal and social moral systems -- very direct about their values. May stiffly criticize people who breech those moral systems. Try to appear friendly and group-oriented but seem mechanical doing that (have a repository of "cool" yet appropriate interjections they've memorized) -- seem like they're trying to cover up being stuffy and not appear "boring" due to role . Paragon of optimism, highly open-minded. Detached from their bodies and physical presence. Focused mostly on their long-term goals. Extremely productive and knowledgeable. Instinctively maximize the use of their time, never waste it on trifles.

That's pretty broad and based only on the ones I'm sure of.

[Ave]

It depends on their social background as to whether they are the golden boy or girl. I had an ENTj friend in high school who was from the detroit ghettoes so he wasnt exactly the golden boy, nor was it in his upbringing to seek long term goals, though he was obsessed with making money. He once confided to me he hoped he would never become as drug dealer. He was very blunt, to the point, even rude and tactless. Certainly not "careful" in his handlings of people.

In my experience ENTjs tend to betray me. Or they have a way of making me feel betrayed, like my ENTj friend in high school who would side with his brother when his brother made fun of me. Or me ENTj acting teacher who promised me a role then gave it up an ISFj girl in the class later on.

But I have a positive experience with one too, who is still my friend and hasnt betrayed me to this point. He was even very just with me; I traded him a magic(the gathering) card I got which was worth 25 euros at the time but later on skyrocketed to 55 euros and guess what? He offered to give me 30 euros worth of cards which is really correct of him.

[nanashi]

They're crazy powerful socially with many people. They seem noble and honorable to me. At least this one does.

there are some issues with flow.

I get along with them better than almost any other type, and we seem to want the same things and activities in social interactions.

What I'm getting at is that I'm a lil more dynamic/spontaneous in attention to somethings and they're a lil more structured. Noticeable in social/physical interaction alone with a LIE or with the LIE around others.

Last night I was (personally and inside my head) comparing my ENTj friend to an ESFp I am pursuing. I find them both attractive. The most fitting descriptions of my experience of them were: The ESFP=alive. The ENTJ=competent. Huge compliment from me.

[April]

My mentor throughout college was an LIE professor. We did research together for 3 years. We became very close to the point where I would stay over at her house, and we would write letters to committees seeking awards for one another.

She was extremely able, knowledgeable, generous, friendly, and outgoing. Some negative qualities and experiences included: I felt like she often expected too much of me; other students felt like she displayed favoritism; and sometimes, she would be downright rude to people she perceived as incompetent or stupid.

I saw her view of friendships as odd. She saw us as having a mutually beneficial relationship, almost business-like, where I scratched her back and she scratched mine. I perceive friendships as something more meaningful with a bit more heart.

[The Exception]

Pluses:
Confident, can-do, pioneering types of people. Enterprising. Get lots of things done. Sustained high energy level. Logical.

Minuses:
Arrogant, insensitive, disinterested in the finer sensory things of life, poorly dressed

[April]

poorly dressed

LOL. The first time I met the professor I talked about above, she was wearing a turquoise shirt, dark green corduroy pants, and brown clogs. She proceeded to wear this outfit for three days straight.

[Galen]

I think I've only known one ENTj outside of socionics people. We never talked that much, but he was a cool guy. He muttered a lot, friends with a lot of the gammas (naturally), fairly stylish from what I remember.

[FDG]

Ahah, I don't get why being well-dressed is so important to most people. I can see though how not being interested in finer sensory things can be detrimental.

[stevENTj]

Have gotten along famously with practically every LIE I've known in real life.

[blackburry]

Intelligent, capable, confident, quirky, suspicious. Direct, but vague to protect himself and so no one can ever say he didn't stay true to his word.
Energetic.
Negative individual characteristics: immature, selfish asshole.

....I gotta find another near me one day...our interactions were addicting. I miss it.

[Azeroffs]

....I gotta find another near me one day...our interactions were addicting. I miss it.

What's your type?

[blackburry]

With what I know about socionics so far, I am fairly certain I am ESI-fi
...But there's always room for error I guess.

My bestfriend is a SEE-fi engaged to an ILI- Te
The way my intro thread went, people seem to think I'm LSI because I mentioned I'm sometimes moody and insecure (*ahem* I'm female...it happens).
But from reading wikison...it ESI describes my thought process, interactions, and personality (within and that which is witnessed) pretty dead on.

[Azeroffs]

With what I know about socionics so far, I am fairly certain I am ESI-fi
...But there's always room for error I guess.

My bestfriend is a SEE-fi engaged to an ILI- Te
The way my intro thread went, people seem to think I'm LSI because I mentioned I'm sometimes moody and insecure (*ahem* I'm female...it happens).
But from reading wikison...it ESI describes my thought process, interactions, and personality (within and that which is witnessed) pretty dead on.

right on, just curious

I'm not sure that LIE are typically suspicious or immature. I guess it depends on what you mean by immature. And, I think LIE are known for being too trusting. Regardless, I def wouldn't say it's impossible for LIE to be like that.

[blackburry]

right on, just curious

I'm not sure that LIE are typically suspicious or immature. I guess it depends on what you mean by immature. And, I think LIE are known for being too trusting. Regardless, I def wouldn't say it's impossible for LIE to be like that.

Yeah, I described a particular LIE who isn't exactly healthy and types himself as an enneagram 8. Definitly do not see suspicion as a trademark trait for LIEs, just for him, and I know in the scheme of things, maturity or lack thereof isn't type related. But that's just my own "LIE experience"..

[Marie84]

right on, just curious

I'm not sure that LIE are typically suspicious or immature. I guess it depends on what you mean by immature. And, I think LIE are known for being too trusting. Regardless, I def wouldn't say it's impossible for LIE to be like that.

I would have thought LIE's would be suspicious in regards to how others feel about them and who they can trust?
But maybe blackburry can expand on this...

[FDG]

I would have thought LIE's would be suspicious in regards to how others feel about them and who they can trust?
But maybe blackburry can expand on this...

I don't think it's generally true, LIEs are positivists + democratic + extravert, so it's easy for them (us) to trust new acquaintances, sometimes too easy. I think it's even mentioned in one (russian) description, perhaps Strat's.

[Azeroffs]

I would have thought LIE's would be suspicious in regards to how others feel about them and who they can trust?
But maybe blackburry can expand on this...

I think that can become the case, but generally LIE assume the best of people and expect that people won't let them down and will stay true to their word.

In my case, I usually trust people until they give me reason not to. I think part of it too, is that I tend to be really understanding and forgiving. Even if someone does let me down, I'm generally not down about it. I get over things really quickly, and I can easily understand where people are coming from even if they do wrong, so I find it hard to judge and hold a grudge. In some cases I actually get irritated that I don't care more. I'll recognize that some one did something terrible, but I can't help but rationalize their actions and clearly understand why they did what they did.

[717495]

Hands-on, involved, investigative, decisive, dependable, far-planning, big picture oriented, often bad with sensory details and can overlook the little but important things when making decisions. subtypes can appear to have a smaller and introverted world and might not be as active.

[atropos]

One is rather suspicious minded. Suck at reading people but thinks he's insightful. Another likes randomly feeding me with news facts, and asking me if I'm aware of them. Sometimes give me weird comments designed to solicit some words from me which I usually don't react to.

What are their EM's?

[Marie84]

I don't think it's generally true, LIEs are positivists + democratic + extravert, so it's easy for them (us) to trust new acquaintances, sometimes too easy. I think it's even mentioned in one (russian) description, perhaps Strat's.

I think that can become the case, but generally LIE assume the best of people and expect that people won't let them down and will stay true to their word.

In my case, I usually trust people until they give me reason not to. I think part of it too, is that I tend to be really understanding and forgiving. Even if someone does let me down, I'm generally not down about it. I get over things really quickly, and I can easily understand where people are coming from even if they do wrong, so I find it hard to judge and hold a grudge. In some cases I actually get irritated that I don't care more. I'll recognize that some one did something terrible, but I can't help but rationalize their actions and clearly understand why they did what they did.

ah, interesting. So in a relationship (not necessarily a romantic one) you just assume that the person likes you until there is a reason to doubt otherwise? In that sense, what would you describe as an indicator for judging bad relations?

[Azeroffs]

ah, interesting. So in a relationship (not necessarily a romantic one) you just assume that the person likes you until there is a reason to doubt otherwise? In that sense, what would you describe as an indicator for judging bad relations?

I don't know that the thought really even goes that far. I just have hard time making decisions based on the status of the relationship. The only times I literally hit a mental wall when it comes to thinking about what it is that I should do in a given situation is when it involves considering the relationships I have. Trust is the same. I'm usually not sure about the relationship and I don't know exactly what would be implied or expected if I was sure. I have a hard time judging a relationship in general, let alone if it's good or bad.

Sensitive and emotional situations are really difficult for me to handle. I sense that I may have to do something because of my relationship to the person, but I can't decide if I really should or if it might be weird and maybe I'm misjudging the situation or our relationship.

[Azeroffs]

The individual tends not to consider whether people are friends or enemies or whether they feel good will or ill will towards them. Instead, he or she usually acts right from the start as if the other person were a friend or an enemy based on their prior knowledge of what the person does. This makes it possible to mistake a friend for an enemy and vice versa. Only gradually does the individual come to recognize what feelings others have for him, and there is always an element of doubt unless others express those feelings verbally and unambiguously and act in a way that clearly matches their stated feelings, over a sufficient period of time. The individual is easily made insecure about the status of personal relationships and needs frequent reassurance that the other person's feelings have not changed.

On Fi-DS

also:http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Super-id_block

[Suz]

I can comment now that I've realized i knew at least two LIEs in person, plus my interactions online with Ashton:

LIEs ime are geniuses. Golden boy does seem to capture it with the 2 i knew in person. Not just perfectionists, but actually perfect. One was a math/physics/language genius I knew in college, the other was an award winning concert pianist and straight A student in high school. And well, Ashton is only my socionics guru and he seems to just soak up all these varied subjects just out of pure interest (econ, history, politics, etc etc).

As far as dress, the two I knew in person were very sharp dressers but true one of them did tend to wear the same sweater for like a week, and did tend to wear the same style of clothes day in and day out. I always thought he was well-dressed compared to me, though. Actually that goes for both of them. The one in college always had some sort of great smelling cologne on too (or maybe it was his aftershave?).

Oh and celeb-wise, Shah Rukh Khan (indian actor), also LIE, is pretty much the "golden boy" of the bollywood industry. He was also ranked as one of the most influential people in the world by TIME magazine, despite the fact that a lot of people in the US dont know who he is.

[Suz]

into debating. Both are family men, rather talkative and dispenses lots of information. Not much to say. I like them.

Ni-LIEs are less of a workaholic and may be said to be a little lazy even. Overly opportunistic in a manner which I do not approve. Overly confident and takes a pride in their knowledge, which I personally think lack depth. When questioned, you find that their knowledge "works" only for their own ends.

Don't mind teasing, rather easy to bully. No sense of romance and may be seen to be a little boring. Unsure of how to react to Fe directed towards them.

Both subtypes have a tendency of cracking unfunny jokes and are strongly subservient to Fi.

Agree with all of this.

The one LIE i knew was more of a workaholic and not that opportunistic. The other was more like the Ni-LIE you described. I liked the Te-LIE guy better too.

[stevENTj]

My father is an LIE, and definitely the workaholic type. A true to form "company man", he's worked from 7am until 7pm (not quite literally) almost his entire life, including a lot of weekends. Has to be dragged kicking and screaming to take vacation time, and commonly lets a lot of accrued vacation expire. Knows almost nothing outside of work, and whenever I'm at my folks place visiting the only thing to talk about from him is the latest happenings at work, or politics.

It's kinda sad because he could retire whenever he wants to now, but seriously has no idea what the heck to do with himself. My mom who is probably an SEI want to go do a bunch of traveling and go places and do things that they haven't ever done yet while they're still able to get around on their own, but he has absolutely no interest. Hates going anywhere. Don't blame my mom for wanting to do what she wants to do because all my dad has ever done is work.

Some of the PoLR signs, he's VERY rough with any sort of equipment or gear. My wife and I joke that whenever he and my mom come to visit us and he wants to "help" out with something that there's always 'collateral damage'. Like putting things together wrong or backwards, not following instructions, breaking things which occurs as a result of not realizing something is about to break, etc. Doesn't take particularly good care of himself health wise, doesn't exercise, etc. Luckily he has good genetics and isn't overweight at all. His driving is quite scary. Doesn't notice when he's drifting lanes, tailgates people and is constantly on/off the brakes, takes blind turns wide into oncoming lanes where there could be somebody coming. Not sure if the driving related stuff relates to much but he's always been scary like this. Everybody in the family is amazed he isn't dead from a road related incident, and my mom who isn't exactly the best driver either refuses to let him drive anymore than necessary and actually does most of the driving now.

Hope he can find something to do to keep himself occupied during retirement. No hobbies, just work work work. A lot of us are worried that he's not going to retire well at all. :-/

[Azeroffs]

Not just perfectionists, but actually perfect.

They're basically perfect human beings.

[Beautiful sky]

And from the two similar quotes you and workaholics share which is essentially Se in it's nature, I wonder what would make her not see that she has Se in her EGO block. Because, you two are activity relations and she has similar values, beliefs, understandings as GAMMA quad, which is essentially saying that what she says does not correspond to Delta values.

[Absurd]

Because, you two are activity relations and she has similar values, beliefs, understandings as GAMMA quad

Follow your leader, WA.

[redbaron]

Steve, your parents are conflictors?

[Azeroffs]

And from the two similar quotes you and workaholics share which is essentially Se in it's nature, I wonder what would make her not see that she has Se in her EGO block. Because, you two are activity relations and she has similar values, beliefs, understandings as GAMMA quad, which is essentially saying that what she says does not correspond to Delta values.

I wouldn't go that far. I don't either of us actually think LIE are perfect. LIE especially of the e3 variety are just devoted to accomplishing great things and often embody 'success' within their culture.


Side note, I just got accepted to work in an entrepreneurial internship. Woohoo!!

[Suz]

And from the two similar quotes you and workaholics share which is essentially Se in it's nature, I wonder what would make her not see that she has Se in her EGO block. Because, you two are activity relations and she has similar values, beliefs, understandings as GAMMA quad, which is essentially saying that what she says does not correspond to Delta values.

do you have any substance to actually state, to support this instead of just saying "oh that's gamma, that's not delta"?

How is anything that I said un-Delta?

[stevENTj]

Steve, your parents are conflictors?

Boggles my mind, but yeah they do seem to be conflictors.

[Suz]

I wouldn't go that far. I don't either of us actually think LIE are perfect. LIE especially of the e3 variety are just devoted to accomplishing great things and often embody 'success' within their culture.


Side note, I just got accepted to work in an entrepreneurial internship. Woohoo!!

Yeah exactly, I was admittedly exaggerating a bit. It's more that they have the appearance of being perfect. Obviously both LIEs i know had some serious downsides, especially the probable Ni-subtype guy who has a fault of being much too conceited.

Don't forget, Maritsa, LIE in particular the Te-subtype, can feel almost like activity for me, since as an IEE my HA is also Te (like an SEE's would be).

Oh! and congrats Azeroffs!!

[Azeroffs]

fault of being much too conceited.

Oh! and congrats Azeroffs!!

We're not conceited. We're just so awesome that people think we're conceited.
We can be modest to. We're like the most modest people in the world. And we're never sarcastic either.

Thanks

[Suz]

We're not conceited. We're just so awesome that people think we're conceited.
We can be modest to. We're like the most modest people in the world. And we're never sarcastic either.

Thanks

Well the other LIE (the workaholic, so prob Te-sub) i knew was very modest. So, I know .

I think in terms of Maritsa bringing up whether i'm IEE vs SEE, also, the key is that LIE's activate me, while i dont activate them back (but they still like me b/c I give them Fi I guess). With LSEs (such as with my LSE ex-boss and a couple of LSE friends), we activate each other, it's obvious.

But heck, who knows. I Te, and I Fi, so gammas are good people in my book; sure, Maritsa, we share those values. Tbh, I wouldn't mind ending up with an LIE or ILI, more so even than an alpha. I just cant imagine a good relationship happening for me with a non-Fi-valuing person.