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Thread: How do you know your type?

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    Default How do you know your type?

    How do you know you are a rational type (eg INTj) or an irrational type (eg INTp)?

    The reason I am asking this is to know how you made your decision about this.

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    my dog told me

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    My way to decide that I am an Irrational INTp:

    - I am not as "strict" (maybe as INTj) with everything including logic and thinking. This maybe why I keep on overlooking/missing details. Therefore, I might use my "perception" more than strict logic or “detailed” analysis when it comes to decision/judgement or mere thinking.

    - I look at patterns and predict future possibilities a lot - don't know if it is more than any INTjs though. Logic is important for me in everyway, I can't function without it, but true logic is "abstract"/intuitive/unknown (since the world is not knowable anyway), at least not just some "mechanic" stuff developed by us humans (now you think I am stupid! ) Therefore, seeing big pictures is important, e.g. achieving a divine purpose (at practical level of course, I don’t mean I want to do it by becoming a monk/nun, not yet anyway ) maybe more important than spending twenty years successfully developing a useful medicine to cure some human diseases, unless the purpose and the process of developing this medicine are part of the "divine" purpose as I've mentioned (sorry... it may sound silly or "bad"of me, but this is what I first think and how I judge and develop my values, before trying to apply them to reality if I can, but if I can’t, I won’t regret)

    - I am probably "warmer" than most INTJs, if not more "extroverted".

    - I am open to different choices, and probably more "lay back" with things in general since "knowing the truth" is more important than "obtaining truth through "practical" (in my own words: "subjective") judgement", since choices through overly detailed analysis/comparisons and subsequent selections out of these "analysises" (like Ti ?), to me, is a more "limited" method than the former.

    - I wait as long as possible before reaching a decision i.e. may not wish to make a (major) decision unless I have to. Also I keep running late with my duties (by my own definition) - don't like time pressure at all – (okay, a big weakness on my part), although others may not think this is the case as I do seemingly submit my work/meet deadlines on time usually.

    - For my work, I prefer doing "overall" strategic planning and analysis (at conceptual level mostly) to developing detailed financial planning/analysis - don't like handling money matters at all, although overall budgeting is fine. I don't like practical work and am weaker at (or less fond of) applications of (even my own) plans or strategies - I assume INTj would make sure that they would be able to see things "work", and theories itself may not be enough for them (am I right?). I mean INTjs are, in a sense, more down to earth and Rational.

    - But strange enough, I AM also a perfectionist in many ways, such as moral and ethical conducts/values, sometimes even languages (no, I don't mean I am a native-English speaker, I am not!), and quality of my work and so on... but this may not be an "Irrational" trait, not sure...

    Hope this makes sense. Please DO point out if I have got the wrong concept of INTp, as I am open to "change" to another type anytime (it doesn't matter!)... as I've always said. :wink:

    That’s it for tonight, may write more some other time.
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
    The ENTp Chinese Roast Duck

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    I suppose individual j/p awareness more obvious to some than it is for others. I lived in an extremely undisciplined household growing up. This may have influenced me(not necessarily my type, but the ease of the decision). Perhaps I was, by luck of the draw, able to "find myself" earlier than some get to(at a price, of course). I would assume a Judger living in such an environment may get pretty screwed up.

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    A) Intertype relations

    B) similarities in mindset to other INTJs

    C) personal quirks that show manifestations of various strong/weak functions

    D) first principles and belief in ACTUAL truth

    E) I do better when structured than when unstructured though the amount of time in which I am structured is significantly less

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    Hey, guys,

    One thing we need to pay attention to is that what we perceive ourselves may NOT be exactly true, or may not be what others see us.

    Bear this in mind, whatever I have written above may not reflect the "true" traits of my own, although still the true "reasons" I have given for being an INTp, to the best knowledge I have about myself so far.

    Thanks.
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
    The ENTp Chinese Roast Duck

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    Pedro,

    According to socionics wesbite "type functions", INTj are not supposed to be "detailed' minded, but INTps are, in contrast.

    This contradicts with what I think about myself - that I am NOT detailed minded enough.

    Also according to socionics, INTjs are the ones looking for "patterns/structures", not INTps. But looks like I am the one constantly looking for patterns (as far as I understand). How can we explain this?

    Thanks.

    **I think I will move these questions to the Topic: "INTj or INTp"? under "What Is My Type?" So please answer my questions there if you like. It is HERE: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5027#5027
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
    The ENTp Chinese Roast Duck

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    Don't know actually at a proven level. But I am constantly thinking of how to act in a next situation or I find my self living in a future in an imagined situation. Should be the . I make structures and I like to creatively manipulate with math it is. And I don't like to be praised ot others showing affection toward on me, that is as Painfull Function.

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    Socionics validated that for me.

    I'm always late for meet-ups (have pissed some friends off) and lectures (a habit I am getting rid off).

    How I know I am INFp instead of INFj:

    My room gets messy very quickly and at one time, my bed had books, clothes, stationery, lecture notes and food wrappings on it. Yes, I slept will all that. It was like living in a dumpster. If my friends were to find out about this, they will be really shocked because I don't look like an untidy person. I did a long-dued spring-cleaning a week ago and though this is nothing to some people, it's an accomplishment to me.

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    sorry for the typo

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    Default Hold your Horses!

    Quote Originally Posted by NFp--
    Socionics validated that for me.

    I'm always late for meet-ups (have pissed some friends off) and lectures (a habit I am getting rid off).

    How I know I am INFp instead of INFj:

    My room gets messy very quickly and at one time, my bed had books, clothes, stationery, lecture notes and food wrappings on it. Yes, I slept will all that. It was like living in a dumpster. If my friends were to find out about this, they will be really shocked because I don't look like an untidy person. I did a long-dued spring-cleaning a week ago and though this is nothing to some people, it's an accomplishment to me.
    I may confuse you to no end, but I am afraid the things you described mainly just testify to weak sensing function - if anything at all. You might very well be INFJ - socionics is not MBTI... Now go back to square one and study the functions, intertype relations, even the type descriptions etc.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Yeah. It's more to weak sensing.

    But I am sure that I am INFp. Yes, I've read a lot of type descriptions before; even the ones in socionics.org (with a translator). My dad is an ESTj and we used to have arguments and cold-war. It wasn't until I moved out to study that things changed for the better. Among all his children, I'm the one whom he often has misunderstandings with and these happen very easily.

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    Curious, why did you say that I might be an INFj?

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    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Yes...

    He fits the description of ESTj perfectly.

    Guys, I know who I am interacting with. Okay, I may sound like I don't know the purpose of the individual functions well but that doesn't mean that I can get people's type wrong. Not especially someone I've been living with for so many years.

    Now, do I sound like an INFj? Why are you people doubting my type?

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    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Default INFP or INFJ - Once and for All

    Quote Originally Posted by NFp--
    Curious, why did you say I might be an INFj?
    Well, it is just a guess of course, but the J/P scale is tricky... This became quite a long post but I thought I might as well clear up the INFP or INFJ confusion once and for all. What you could do at first is to read at least the following texts/posts. The descriptions of the functions are somewhat different in socionics than in MBTI, therefore study these carefully: what is your (and your father's) first/main/lead/base/program function: Your second function, creative function, is the lead function of your mirror type. The mirror type of INFP is ENFJ, the mirror of INFJ is ENFP.


    Filatova
    Information field and mental functions


    The sign description of functions

    The analysis which has been lead Gulenko, allows to reveal more "thin" structure of mental functions of one kind. So, " black ethics " Hamlet differ from similar function Hugo a little. It has allocated this distinction by means of signs + and-. "Decoding" of these differences (what function for what "answers") below is resulted:

    1. "Black" ethics, ethics of emotions:
    (+) Positive emotions — pleasure, fun, emotional rise, enthusiasm, laughter, enthusiasm, optimism, good mood, experience of happiness; (on the first place this function at Hugo, ESFJ)

    (-) Negative emotions — mountain, grief, grief, emotional recession, depression, crying, tears, discontent, pessimism, bad mood, experience of misfortune. (on the first place Hamlet, ENFJ this function)

    2. "White" ethics, ethics the attitude:
    (+) Good relations — love, friendship, sympathy, an attraction, heat of attitudes, the sociability, a close psychological distance, kindly, pity; (on the first place this function at Dostojevski, INFJ)


    (-) Bad attitudes — hatred, enmity, antipathy, pushing away, estrangement, the unsociability, a far psychological distance, angrily, ruthlessness. (on the first place this function at Dreiser, ISFJ)

    3. "Black" logic, business:
    (+) Advantage, benefit, profitability, technology, the facts, purchases, accumulation, the purchase, savings, putting in order, a practicality; (on the first place this function at Sherlock Holmes, ESTJ)

    (-) Uselessness, unprofitableness, use, application, deterioration, charges, expenditure, risk, experiment, sale, trade, actions in conditions of chaos, an ingenuity. (on the first place this function at Jack London, ENTJ)

    4. "White" logic, logic of attitudes:
    (+) Reality, detail, detailed study, carefulness, severity, place in hierarchies, laws, decisions, instructions, a choice of the best variant, logic of the organization, (on the first place this function at Maxim, ISTJ)

    (-) abstraction, generality, universality, system, classification, typology, the general laws, objectivity, true, validity, the analysis, logic of a science, criteria. (on the first place this function at Robespierre, INTJ)

    5. "Black" intuition, intuition of opportunities:
    (+) Prospects, opportunities, positive potential, essence, essence, the principles, new ideas, promotion of hypotheses, the theory, an insight, interest, originality, singularity, unreality, belief; (on the first place this function at Don Quixote, ENTP)

    (-) Hopelessness, alternative, negative potential, absence of essence, senselessness, the paradox, overlooked old, serost, the mediocrity, the suppressed opportunities, disbelief, sensation. (on the first place this function at Huxley, ENFP)

    6. "White" intuition, intuition of time:
    (+) The future, change of a situation in time, a prediction, a prediction, gradual development, evolution, a scheduled accession, dynamics of changes, a time stream, imagination, consistency, imperceptible changes — step by step, a convergence, convergence; (on the first place this function at Balzac, INTP)

    (-) The past, error check, avoiding of danger, uneasiness, vague anxiety, nazrevanie crisis, revolution, jump in time, skill to be insured against troubles, sharp shifts, discrepancy, the moment of resolute actions, a divergence, divergentsija. (on the first place this function at Yesenin, INFP)

    7. "Black" sensorika, strong-willed:
    (+) - Deduction of authority, insubordination, protection, defense, retaliation, counterattack, hardness, upholding of the interests, strong-willed pressure from below upwards, will power, possession; (on the first place this function at Napoleon, ESFP)

    (-) Capture of authority, submission, attack, aggression, attack, the initiative, persistence, insistence, strong-willed pressure from top to down, the statement of the interests due to others, overthrow, weakness, lack of will, mastering. (on the first place this function at Zhukov, ESTP)

    8. "White" sensorika, sensorika sensation.
    (+) Pleasant sensations, comfort, convenience, harmony, beauty, appeal, rest, health, slackness, good state of health, pleasure, pleasure, sensitivity; (on the first place this function at Dumas, ISFP)

    (-) Unpleasant sensations, discomfort, inconvenience, disharmony, disgrace, unattractiveness, weariness, pressure, illness, bad state of health, suffering, pain. (on the first place this function Gaben, ISTP)



    Also keep in mind that the socionics modelling of the types is rather different from MBTI, and even the best tests have only mediocre reliability. According to socionics theory, and in my opinion correctly, the types have somewhat different subconscious installations to various things, here mainly to work, from the:

    Mnemonic Table of Socionic Types:

    You are sure of the necessity to apply methods of enforcement, in order to achieve necessary practical results. (ESTP or ISTJ)

    Leadership, victory, large-scaled actions, “surgical interventions”, risk. ESTp

    System, order, planning, general rules for all, duty, will, obedience. ISTj


    You strive for qualitative fulfillment of work using the most efficient methods and procedures. (ESTJ or ISTP)

    Quality, convenience, esthetic, working by segments, privacy. ISTp

    Management, planning, responsibility, reasonable requirements ESTj



    You estimate well people's hidden talents, can understand and regulate their relations. (ENFJ or INFP)

    Interest towards people, events; easiness of communication, search for compromise. ENFp

    Sympathy for others, strive to help, reserved emotions. INFj


    You foresee problems in relations, actively demonstrate both your positive and negative emotions (ENFP or INFJ)

    Introspection, rich imagination, melancholy. INFp

    Capability to impress, to flash with artistic habits; a broad spectrum of emotions ENFj
    http://socioniko.narod.ru/en/1.1.types/index-type.html
    (Can you find the right article? No direct link possible.)


    You could also read about the Oldham's types on this site, it is not quite one to one match, but it is quite high, some ESTJs are clearly like the type description puts it: Their gait and movements are sharp, tense and jerky showing an internal tension synonymous to this type. Others again fit the Oldham's leisurely type description. This causes a lot of confusion...



    Intertype relations are rather poorly suitable for typing your parents because usually these relations are quite closely defined by the roles of the parties. Your parents usually try to raise you according to their ideal and the intertype relations may thus not fully apply. Different intertype relations cause different difficulties that would to some extent appear even in the relation within family. This table gives another perspective. In my experience relations of superego may indeed be the worst. It is good to keep in mind though that there are, for example, ESTPs with whom I get on quite well and many ESTJs whose company I cannot claim to enjoy.

    Relation__________Problem faced

    Identity__________Necessity of self- perception, of being yourself
    Dual____________Necessity of rest, comfort
    Mirror___________Necessity of active distribution of results, realization of the person
    Activation________Time of comprehension of the problems has come
    Business_________Time to act has come (Look-a-like)
    Illusion__________Problem of internal freedom
    Related__________Necessity of strengthening of the positions in society, self-affirmation (Comparative)
    Semi-dual________Time of intensive development of new knowledge, of studies has come
    Contrary_________It is important to forget about household problems, to rise above them
    Super-Ego________Problem of a survival, things we do not want to see and recognize
    Quasi-Identical____Training of ability to win, struggle, disprove
    Conflict__________Necessity of realized practical decisions
    Supervisor_______Prevail when it is necessary to pay attention to problems of debt
    Supervisee_______Prevail when one should pay attention to developing the 2nd function
    Benefactor_______Specify ducking out from the responsibility for the results of the problem-solving
    Beneficiary_______Specify ducking out from the responsibility for making decisions

    oldforumlinkviewtopic-66.html
    (It is a good article, well worth reading.)


    I discussed how differences between INFPs and INFJs could appear in this thread with fever:
    oldforumlinkviewtopic-187-60.html
    (Read the examples carefully.)

    You could then compare our communication style to Lev Kamensky INFP. His exchange of blows with admin was at times quite hilarious - as the theory says Beta Quadra (INFPs) is not afraid to fight for themselves.
    oldforumlinkviewtopic-215.html

    Then you could still read the Quadra descriptions on this site, other groups, erotic attitudes etc. Another post that I found enjoyable and in most cases quite accurate was Slava's

    Type/Voice Correlation:

    I noticed that there is a correlation between type and the type's voice. We should try to get some recordings to go with the pics.

    I bet that with a neural network app one can identify type via voice and face. This can allows automated POLR attack systems. We can set them up in the battle fields to attack enemy soldiers psychologically as they walk by. "INTj recognized.... attacking.... Hey soldier, you have no will power, what are you gunna do in hand to hand combat? nothing?". They can be like posts set up randomly. But thats not important, lol just an idea for an application. but yeah.

    heres what I can describe so far about type and voice (mostly guys).

    ENTp - Slightly raspy but gentle voice, with quiver when trying to prove a point to someone who isn't agreeing.
    ENTj - Forceful voice, loud, lavish
    ENFp - Raspy cheerful voice
    ENFj - Child-like melodious voice, with excessive stress on some vowels. "Reaaaally? Ohhhh, woooonderful."
    ESTp - One word responses, not a forceful voice, a bit sarcastic, and annoyed. When talking to strangers, they try to sound more formal but have trouble making eye contact and thus their responses sound like burstes that suddenly end.
    ESTj - Manly voice with specific words stressed. When stressing a point they like to use hand jestures, such as a fist hitting something for every sylible. Somewhat lavish tone. The females sound like they have been smoking for years.
    ESFp - Some sound like gangsta thugs, some sounds superficially emotional, but not a pelasant tone. ie. "Heeeeey, buuuuudy! howz it going?"
    ESFj - Melodious tone, slightly seductive, but as if talking to a child.
    INTp - Sound liek they try to be excessively manly, especially when proving a point, or talking about man stuff, like cars or battle.
    INTj - Sound whimpy, gentle and cautious. Make breif statement jokes, and then laugh like yogi bear. Sound very superficial when asking other about their opinion, with a half smirk on their face.
    INFp - Sound like a stoners talking about some insane revelation.
    INFj - Sound like pee wee herman (when acting silly), and normally a more toned down version of it. Females sound like Marry Poppins.

    ISTp - Very formal tone.
    ISTj - Sound like they fake emotion, talk extra slow as if to a stupid person, somewhat like Scar Face.
    ISFp - Joyfull and abrupty laugh (if you have seen the movie, hypercube, Jerry talks like them)
    ISFj - Formal and similar to people who speak on TV commercials for hoursehold products.
    _________________
    -Slava
    Eyes are the windows to your type.
    oldforumlinkviewtopic-302.html
    (There are many comments)


    Then you could still do a "comparision on molecular level". If you are INFP you have the same dual-seeking function as INTPs Se extroverted sensing and thus would want to go power driven, moneymaking, sometimes risky places.
    http://www.socionics.com/advan/intjorintp.htm

    If you are INFJ again you are looking for Te, extroverted thinking. This could manifest itself as reading, browsing and many curious interests. Extroverted thinking is about "the logic of the objective world", and since this is INFJs 5th dual-seeking function they are not afraid to show their weaknesses and ask for help. Thus INFJs are likely to demand hard evidence and therefore quite naturally INFJs belong to the conservative Delta Quadra. We are "the physical embodiment of intellectual inertia", as Pedro-the-Lion quite poignantly put it.


    Hidden agendas again are often quite difficult to detect, but if you are INFJ you have the same hidden agenda as INTJs, introverted sensing Si:

    The last comparison - hidden agendas. This is what people hide from other people, because it is very sensitive area of one's psyche. If the main function is like a geometric cone firmly standing on its base, the hidden agenda is like the same cone standing on its tip that one is trying to balance. For INTJs their introverted sensing () is their nightmare. Introverted sensing is mainly about the body, its functions, sensory perceptions etc. The only way they can balance that cone is for them to be physically healthy and if this is not that important to you, you are most probably not INTJ.
    In practise this could mean, for example, a disposition to develop psycho-somatic ailments, unwillingness to eat with others discussed on socionics.com and many other things - combined with unwillingness to discuss these issues.



    For INFPs their hidden agenda is Ti introverted thinking: Thus INFPs are balancing introverted thinking Ti, this is their area of sensititivity. They do not want to admit their weaknesses. Introverted thinking is mainly about understanding: knowing why and what causes things to happen the way they happen. INFPs have difficulties understanding things and they are ashamed to admit it. Because of their main function introverted intuition Ni which is about internal wholeness or belief, INFPs want to believe in something, but they are not able to judge the logical correctness of the theory they swallow, and thus INFPs belong to the Beta Quadra that will find causes worthy of self-sacrifice and does not hesitate to fight for itself.

    Thus INFP hidden agenda could mean, for example, something like this rather memorable alternative type description:

    Probably the most interesting INFP's ability is their ability to learn. Having natural difficulties with their understanding, INFPs tend to compensate for this with an impressive amount of reading, watching and listening. The more you know the more you’ll be able to understand, right? But what if you can't connect the dots? Then someone will do it for you. That's why INFPs are quite easy to brainwash. Whether it is a commercial or political bull, INFPs often go around repeating it using exact words and phrases like brainless zombies, making them perfect puppets in the hands of a skilful puppeteer.

    As far as other people are concerned, INFPs can be very productive, making them good social workers, musicians, entertainers, media, etc. In contrast, INFP’s ability to think logically is circumstantial and limited to memorised examples, which makes them poor experts in technological fields, especially when the situation requires non-ordinary solutions. This, however, does not stop INFPs from becoming sloppy engineers, sloppy mechanics, sloppy programmers, sloppy you name it.

    http://www.socionics.com/prof/infp2.htm

    If this did not help you I do not know what will. Just keep in mind that INFPs will do absolutely anything to disguise their real ignorance, whereas INFJs are always impartial and strictly objective...

    ***EDIT***

    Correspondence to socionics.com intertype relations added to: Relation__________Problem faced section.
    http://www.socionics.com/rel/rel.htm
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Thank you.

    I will be reading.

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    Default :(

    INFJs lack sense of logic. In previos post of CuriousSoul, it's very easily seen, how he/she didn't extract only important reasons out of the information he/she pasted. It could be done in just a few lines of text.
    drake
    --Dilemmas are illusions.

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    Default :)

    An answer to Hugo's question.

    INTJs may have only one idea, but they analyze it to the last detail and they know every detail.

    INTPs generate many ideas which they tend to explain, but never explain them to the last detail.
    drake
    --Dilemmas are illusions.

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    Default Re: :(

    Curious,

    I am here to defend you (from Drake), whether you need it or not!!

    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    INFJs lack sense of logic. In previos post of CuriousSoul, it's very easily seen, how he/she didn't extract only important reasons out of the information he/she pasted. It could be done in just a few lines of text.
    I have an INFj friend who is a great friend, and am very fond of. I know he is definitely an INFj as he is a professor in Religion and Psychology so he knows his own type very well. He is very bright and has extremely good logic, but he usually expresses it in a very soft and subtle way. He usually dosn't analyse things with "hard" logic, more so, he does it through descriptions and references from other people or experts, or his own experiences or even humor, which is a similar style to Curious (I think) - I find this amazing that how types actually work so effectively in real life when I see Curious' style in comparison with my friend's - that they are so similar in some ways. Also, INFjs, as I know so far, are genuinely helpful to people as much as they could be.

    I know Drake is actually just joking, but I am writing this here just to make an indication about INFjs and their style of logic through my own observation.

    So, Drake, please don't kill me!
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    Default :)

    So, Drake, please don't kill me!
    I will not.

    I know Drake is actually just joking, but I am writing this here just to make an indication about INFjs and their style of logic through my own observation.
    I'm not joking. I made an objective statement, but it's a logical fallacy. Just on few examples I concluded, and based on a profile description of INFJs having as their third function, that it's worth for ALL cases.

    I also know an INFJ professor or psychology who doesn't use short logical statements as conclusions to what he knows. Instead, he's very descriptive by giving lots of examples and putting references to other authors. The point is that he doesn't extract important information out of everything he reffers to. Almost alway, that's very hard to follow because of information crisis that INFJ creates.



    INTJs, correct me if I'm wrong.
    drake
    --Dilemmas are illusions.

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    Default Re: :(

    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    INFJs lack sense of logic. In previos post of CuriousSoul, it's very easily seen, how he/she didn't extract only important reasons out of the information he/she pasted. It could be done in just a few lines of text.
    I could have done that of course, :wink: but then again it is both faster and more fun to just copy and paste as much as you can... The thing is one idea alone just does not seem to work in socionics - so I just generate as many as I can and hope that something will stick. Would you have anything to add to the INFJ or INFP debate?
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
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    Okay, Drake and Curious,

    Just one more thing before your INFj and INFp debate, please?

    Drake, I understand that you are not joking! :wink:

    Put it in this way, my INFj friend is extremely humorous with great imagination. People without good logic cannot be this humorous! This is a logical statement I have made, not just an assumption.

    Also, my INFj friend, just like Curious, PREFERS presenting his logic through other people's examples/references, partly because he is a quite modest person (like many INFjs?) as most his friends know, therefore, I think he consciously CHOOSES not to present his logic openly in the "hard" way, but in the more "soft"/subtle ways.

    By the way, thanks for not killing me! Drake. :wink:
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
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    INFPs are more perceptive and dreamy. They percieve patterns of time. When they imagine something they mix patterns of time (future, present, past) and memories. They express these mixed 'blobs' with feelings (words mostly).

    INFJs know true feelings of people but they percieve potential in others to change that. They express *possibilities* which could change person's relation with others and improve his/hers situation in the future.
    drake
    --Dilemmas are illusions.

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    INFjs annoy me. INFps scare me.

    But you already know that. :wink:
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    drake wrote:
    INFJs lack sense of logic. Smile In previos post of CuriousSoul, it's very easily seen, how he/she didn't extract only important reasons out of the information he/she pasted. It could be done in just a few lines of text.

    I could have done that of course, Wink but then again it is both faster and more fun to just copy and paste as much as you can... The thing is one idea alone just does not seem to work in socionics - so I just generate as many as I can and hope that something will stick. Would you have anything to add to the INFJ or INFP debate?
    Shows well where is based at CuriousSouls psyche. I can do it, but I don't wish to is a great example of as Role function. You know you can use it though instead you don't like to use it and when use it, it is not so pleasent to use it.

    And these copy paste texts are facts so this might actually be how CuriousSoul shows its Suggestive Function, the . Suggestive function has a lot of things in memory , but you can not remember it so it controls your actions subconciously.

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    Default Re: :)

    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    INTJs, correct me if I'm wrong.
    You are 1 bajillion % correct.

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    Curious, I'm sorry to pour cold water on this but I identify more with drake's INFp explanation.

    Still, I will do my homework

    By the way, I went through Lev's 14-page brainstorming factory as you asked me to compare my communication style with his. Well, I can sound that way if I'm very cross but normally I try not to fly off the handle.

    I read somewhere (my memory fails me here) that INFp males can exhibit an edgier attitude compared to their female counterparts because it has something to do with not wanting to appear 'weak'. I apologize if this sound offensive to male INFps but perhaps someone; or any male NFs, can step in to clear this up.

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    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by drake
    INFJs lack sense of logic. Smile In previos post of CuriousSoul, it's very easily seen, how he/she didn't extract only important reasons out of the information he/she pasted. It could be done in just a few lines of text.


    here's my take on it, for what its worth! is third thus always open channel. it's like the part of your brain that u wished had an off-switch! it picks up on and picks them apart...all those small unnoticed details...giving infj perfectionistic tendencies. it will have a deep field of knowledge in a particular subject. a lot of times "god is in the details". it's all those little intricate things that it will pick up on that others can miss and Ne doesn't want to leave anything out. in 3rd finds it hard to turn down the volume of a little bit and *prioritize*. but then again accuracy could be at stake.

    Nfp...u may be infp. i haven't read enough of your posts to know. but infj's can appear infp. Lateness can be an issue for some infj's as well. i was questioning the infj/infp thing on another thread, myself. socionics is more about the subjective construction of the type rather than what it may seem like on the outside which is how mbti is. u probably already know this...but i'm just throwing it out here for the heck of it.

    i definately see similarities in CS and myself....if u see any similarities, infj could be possible

    this might help...ask yourself

    do u mind being interrupted when working on something ? if u dislike being interrupted....infj. if u welcome interruptions...infp

    if u like to do one thing at a time....infj
    if u are a multitasker.....infp

    infj sort of like thinks in compartments....infp is more free--flow

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    Here's another way to make sure weather or not you are INFj. INFps do not like to work a lot of time on a same task and if they know they have to put their force in to it, they leave the job till the last moment. INFj pushes it self to do the job and though it wastes a lot of energy it works till the end. INFj also does not like to show others its working process.

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    Default INFP or INFJ

    Quote Originally Posted by kaido21
    Here's another way to make sure weather or not you are INFj. INFps do not like to work a lot of time on a same task and if they know they have to put their force in to it, they leave the job till the last moment. INFj pushes it self to do the job and though it wastes a lot of energy it works till the end. INFj also does not like to show others its working process.
    I am sorry, but I think this is just more of the same theory that has been weighed and found wanting - although more detailed explanations would be appreciated and may well be illustrating... Maintaining high productivity can be difficult for all types, and it is only weakly correlated with socionics types. I am inclined to think that this is one of the flawed concepts in the theory that causes a lot of people to be mistyped - either by themselves or by others. Fitness for work is simply not suitable for typing.
    Or as fever put it:

    Quote Originally Posted by fever
    here's my take on it, for what its worth! is third thus always open channel. it's like the part of your brain that u wished had an off-switch! it picks up on and picks them apart...all those small unnoticed details...giving infj perfectionistic tendencies. it will have a deep field of knowledge in a particular subject. a lot of times "god is in the details". it's all those little intricate things that it will pick up on that others can miss and Ne doesn't want to leave anything out. in 3rd finds it hard to turn down the volume of a little bit and *prioritize*. but then again accuracy could be at stake.
    I think this seems to be accurate, somehow also Ne makes one so very aware of all the potential - and one's limitations in realizing it. I am neither so sure whether the third function is stronger than the fourth, there are different interpretations, and it all depends...

    Fever, I very much appreciate your comments, it is nice not to be the only INFJ here. I was wondering if you are still considering writing an "INFJ uncovered", or something of the kind?
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    To CuriousSoul . I am thinking that is the function, which helps people to think into which actions it should canalize it's energy.They never do useless job (and I don't mean job as simply profession) And people with strong are very workocholics always doing something and can't sit by. If the type with weak becomes involved with a lot of actions, its has just become more stronger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaido21
    Here's another way to make sure weather or not you are INFj. INFps do not like to work a lot of time on a same task and if they know they have to put their force in to it, they leave the job till the last moment. INFj pushes it self to do the job and though it wastes a lot of energy it works till the end. INFj also does not like to show others its working process.
    Curious,

    Sorry, don't mean to argue (although I enjoy it ).

    Based on my own observations, with the few INFjs I have seen, what kaido said above is quite true.

    Okay, I am not yet familiar with socionics, so I can only judge through my perceptions and experiences at this moment.

    Don't kill me, please!
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
    The ENTp Chinese Roast Duck

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    Default Re: INFP or INFJ

    [quote="CuriousSoul"] Fitness for work is simply not suitable for typing.[quote]

    I am not sure. I think it maybe more "accurate" to say that Fitness for professions is not always suitable for typing.

    Actually I mean, one should not choose his career just based on his "type" only, but more so, on his "interests" and talents.

    Agree?
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
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    Quote Originally Posted by VivPhilos
    Curious,

    Sorry, don't mean to argue (although I enjoy it ).

    Based on my own observations, with the few INFjs I have seen, what kaido said above is quite true.

    Okay, I am not yet familiar with socionics, so I can only judge through my perceptions and experiences at this moment.

    Don't kill me, please!
    I won't, yet..

    Your observations are most likely correct. What I am saying is just that people are different and your type does not change if you mature or get a more pleasant and supportive job and learn to enjoy youir work, for example. Or as Cone once commented about why so many people seem to hesitate about having Te, the notorious "Business Logic" in their ego - as if their life would be all about business. We need better methods of typing - as always...
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    What I am saying is just that people are different and your type does not change if you mature or get a more pleasant and supportive job and learn to enjoy youir work, for example.
    Curious,

    Really really sorry, could you please rephrase what's quoted? I don't understand it, it is just my stupid English!

    Waiting to be killed...
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    The ENTp Chinese Roast Duck

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    Default Clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by VivPhilos
    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    What I am saying is just that people are different and your type does not change if you mature or get a more pleasant and supportive job and learn to enjoy youir work, for example.
    Curious,

    Really really sorry, could you please rephrase what's quoted? I don't understand it, it is just my stupid English!

    Waiting to be killed...
    What I mean is that for example as Kaido21 put it here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido
    Here's another way to make sure whether or not you are INFj. INFps do not like to work a lot of time on a same task and if they know they have to put their force in to it, they leave the job till the last moment. INFj pushes it self to do the job and though it wastes a lot of energy it works till the end. INFj also does not like to show others its working process.
    When you have a job you enjoy and feel competent at, you may enjoy doing it for even lengthy periods, whereas if you have a job - or work to do - that you feel you must do even when you do not want to, or that makes you feel like a total incompetent who does not know a thing, you may want to postpone it or want to take pauses to relax,etc. I think these are pretty basic human tendencies, usually not directly caused by your type, and the way people work may change depending on the situation, whereas the socionics type should not change.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Default Re: Clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    When you have a job you enjoy and feel competent at, you may enjoy doing it for even lengthy periods, whereas if you have a job - or work to do - that you feel you must do even when you do not want to, or that makes you feel like a total incompetent who does not know a thing, you may want to postpone it or want to take pauses to relax,etc. I think these are pretty basic human tendencies, usually not directly caused by your type, and the way people work may change depending on the situation, whereas the socionics type should not change.
    Hey, Curious,

    Thanks for your patience and help.

    Now what you say here makes good sense!
    *--*----[Viv]----*--*
    The ENTp Chinese Roast Duck

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