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Thread: a lot of mothers think they're SF

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    Default a lot of mothers think they're SF

    simply because they attend to the needs of their family/children and they're females and therefore "feelers". It's a common misconception. (and I mostly mean MBTI but it would translate to any other personality "test" out there, which is testing those dichotomies).

    I was in a group this afternoon where the ISTj and the INTj both think they're ISFj. And they're not. It's interesting. Also, there's an ENFj who thinks she's ESFj.
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    Getting good results on any sort of test requires feeding it accurate answers. Yes, mothers are culturally and socially biased towards being SF and they may see themselves as being that even if they're really not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    simply because they attend to the needs of their family/children and they're females and therefore "feelers". It's a common misconception. (and I mostly mean MBTI but it would translate to any other personality "test" out there, which is testing those dichotomies).

    I was in a group this afternoon where the ISTj and the INTj both think they're ISFj. And they're not. It's interesting. Also, there's an ENFj who thinks she's ESFj.
    I have also noticed that a lot of people think that their mothers are SF as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I have also noticed that a lot of people think that their mothers are SF as well.
    yeah that's a really good point. I've noticed that too.
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    Yeah; that's the sort of misconception that makes me want to slap people in the ear.

    Most people in childcare are female, caregivers, and feelers. I'll be a logical babysitter. How unique.

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    I can see how all women (but especially mothers) would mistake themselves as F types when they are T, but I don't think it would have that big effect on S>N.
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    Do I win brownie points for shifting my mum's typing from EII to ESI?

    EDIT

    And then bonus brownie points because she's not exactly the image of the loving, doting SF mum.

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    This might also be a side-effect of focusing on personality traits. Being a stay-at-home mom seems to give the woman a different mindset - I've heard many of them describe this phenomenon, positively or negatively, but rarely neutrally. I've even had a teacher who openly said she accepted that poorly paid job simply because she was going crazy staying home with kids all the time. On the other hand, some say they're glad to give up their job to look after the kids. It would be interesting to see if there's a difference in common mistypings between the mothers who work professionally and those that don't.

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    Aiss, why do you keep changing your type? Are you really SLE now?

    and yeah, that would be interesting.^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Aiss, why do you keep changing your type? Are you really SLE now?

    and yeah, that would be interesting.^^^
    She seems SEI. She seems SLE. Things are not as they seem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Do I win brownie points for shifting my mum's typing from EII to ESI?

    EDIT

    And then bonus brownie points because she's not exactly the image of the loving, doting SF mum.
    Had an ESI mom too. Definitely not loving or doting.

    Of the mothers I and their respective children have typed; EII, EIE, IEE. I have known plenty of logical women their age who are not mothers, however...

    On the flip side of this, an ESFj male and an ISFp male correlate SF men with femininity and have refused the typing from me. I think it's the way the descriptions play into stereotypes sometimes that leads the inexperienced down the wrong though process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    I can see how all women (but especially mothers) would mistake themselves as F types when they are T, but I don't think it would have that big effect on S>N.
    I could see motherhood having an effect on S>N. One of my struggles as a mother has been that raising my son, especially when he was an infant and toddler, kept me tied into the immediate and concrete at almost all times. His immediate physical needs, social needs, and safety in the surrounding environment--it was up to me to watch all of that like a hawk. Before he was born, I could wander blissfully and abstractly through the physical world! Afterward, I had to develop much sharper awareness so he would, like, y'know, stay alive and stuff.

    But his dad is an S-type, and of the two of us I'm still the one who holds a big, long-range picture of our child's life in mind every day. I have a pretty good open-ended notion of what kind of person my child will be as an adult and what kind of education, support, and environment he will need in order to realize that. His dad is more or less able to plan things a few months at a time.

    Since I was the primary caregiver for 7 years, I went a lot more S than my ex went N.

    I'd also say that for me to deal with my son properly, I have to come up with a lot more T. He's not touchy-feely, and his mind is always working and analyzing. But still, that didn't come until his more mature cognition began developing, and so for the first 3 years or so things were very F.
    Last edited by golden; 09-29-2010 at 02:24 AM.

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    If she were to get into this my mother would correctly characterized herself as NF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    What about fathers? My SLE boss always takes care of his children (at least this is his ultimate excuse to retreat ). No, he really spends a lot of time with his children, put them to sleep, etc, I saw him once on skype entertaining them, too.
    I think having children can offer both mothers and fathers the opportunity to develop new strengths. And the extent to which that occurs probably depends on lots of factors. The parents' respective strengths/weaknesses, the children's personalities, the culture in which the kids are raised, etc.

    I have seen my ex show a lot of F with our son, for example. Not his strong point, but there has been some growth there, and since he works with kids, it has probably helped him in his career.

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    This is why I retyped my mother as ESTj.
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    My cock thinks it's SF because it attends to my needs.

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    I've mentored 4 kids from birth on, the oldest is now 15 and I've been teaching on and off too, so a lot of people think I am ESFx...lol; yeah, no comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I have also noticed that a lot of people think that their mothers are SF as well.
    I fell into that trap. For a long time, I thought my mom was ESE but came to realize alot about ESE just didn't fit. I think she's really an EII.
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    You know what, they probably are. There are non-sf mothers, but all the ones I know aren't very motherly like. The sf archtype in women, especially esfj is the natural 'mother' vibe. My infp sister doesn't have kids, because quite frankly she's too depressed and introverted and naturally nf-ish for such an ordeal. Funnily enough she'd probably end up killing the kid. Some women were meant to be mothers, some weren't.

    I also know some enfp mothers, but they too are 'distant' with their kids in a way that bothers me.

    What you're doing kinda reminds me of when people go 'Omg a fag that actually knows how to catch a football , see stereotypes are bad' when still on average, gay men will be suckier in sports, that's why the "stereotype" existed, because people observed something many times in real, raw real objective REAL reality- and came up with an ACCURATE conclusion based on what they OBJECTIVELY observed and people aren't being 'cute' when they point out the exception to the rules.

    So a lot of mothers ARE SF. Not all, but MOST (in relation to the other correlations), but a higher percentage than other types will be. Even if NF have kids they won't be the typical 'mother type.' A lot of NTs and NF dykey college professor women have children and are really self-involved and distant with their kids.

    I can't believe Im still posting socionics crap after all these years. I am such a nerd! *deploys piper's hands of discontent and blows everybody up*

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I can't believe Im still posting socionics crap after all these years. I am such a nerd! *deploys piper's hands of discontent and blows everybody up*
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    My mom's an SF

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You know what, they probably are. There are non-sf mothers, but all the ones I know aren't very motherly like. The sf archtype in women, especially esfj is the natural 'mother' vibe. My infp sister doesn't have kids, because quite frankly she's too depressed and introverted and naturally nf-ish for such an ordeal. Funnily enough she'd probably end up killing the kid. Some women were meant to be mothers, some weren't.

    I also know some enfp mothers, but they too are 'distant' with their kids in a way that bothers me.

    What you're doing kinda reminds me of when people go 'Omg a fag that actually knows how to catch a football , see stereotypes are bad' when still on average, gay men will be suckier in sports, that's why the "stereotype" existed, because people observed something many times in real, raw real objective REAL reality- and came up with an ACCURATE conclusion based on what they OBJECTIVELY observed and people aren't being 'cute' when they point out the exception to the rules.

    So a lot of mothers ARE SF. Not all, but MOST (in relation to the other correlations), but a higher percentage than other types will be. Even if NF have kids they won't be the typical 'mother type.' A lot of NTs and NF dykey college professor women have children and are really self-involved and distant with their kids.

    I can't believe Im still posting socionics crap after all these years. I am such a nerd! *deploys piper's hands of discontent and blows everybody up*
    I do not think that it is likely that MOST mother are SF. My present explanation for the phenomenon is that the ESE (or SF in general) represents, to some capacity, the "motherly ideal" in society. It is a type that is generally well attuned to the emotional and physical needs of its children. And it's an ideal that many mothers may try to live up to or mimic in their own way as parents generally try to be attentive to these issues. This is why I think that some mothers who are typed as ESE for misinterpreting the physical needs of their children are not ESE for that very reason. They are trying to mimic and be attentive to something they do not intuitively grasp well.
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    I find these generalizations about who is and isn't a mother sort of silly, sorry. I'd need to see some good solid stats or something to even begin to believe that certain personality types don't give motherhood a whirl as often as SFs. There's such diversity of types of people having kids and parenting styles out there ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    This is why I think that some mothers who are typed as ESE for misinterpreting the physical needs of their children are not ESE for that very reason. They are trying to mimic and be attentive to something they do not intuitively grasp well.
    I rather think the mistake lies in looking at considering physical needs of their children in the first place. Most mothers are really good at this, simply because they usually know their children better than anyone else, and experience is the key here. Natural talent where there's little familiarity with the object might matter, but to be honest I'm skeptical about the whole concept of "physical caregiver". It's not that I think there is nothing to it, but that it tends to be a horrible way to type, either as an argument for or against .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I rather think the mistake lies in looking at considering physical needs of their children in the first place. Most mothers are really good at this, simply because they usually know their children better than anyone else, and experience is the key here. Natural talent where there's little familiarity with the object might matter, but to be honest I'm skeptical about the whole concept of "physical caregiver". It's not that I think there is nothing to it, but that it tends to be a horrible way to type, either as an argument for or against .
    That's another good explanation.
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    My mom self-types as INFP in MBTI, although she's a definite Si-ISFp in my book.'

    I get the impression that the typical American "mother" archetype is some sort of E2 alpha SF, so people who fall into that stereotype are invariably gonna self-type that way at least once.
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    I don't know...I don't think so. I think I know a lot of mothers that aren't SF, it's kind of obvious when they aren't...
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    To those of you who've grown up and fled the nest, have you seen your moms' personalities (the whole "type" or even a facet) change much after their "mom" role disappears?

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    My mother is INFj, but based on all that caregiver crap I bet a bunch of people here would mistype her for something with Si in the ego.

    Caregiver is not legitimate socionics theory in my book. Too many exceptions to the rule.

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    I type my mom as an SF... *shrug*

    A lot of the reasoning behind it is more that she's NOT intuitive and NOT logical.
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    Default Mother Styles

    Enter this site, which there is a book for: Mother Styles

    http://motherstyles.com/

    It's based on MBTI, of course, but it's spot on for how it pegs, for example, what I know I am, INTP or INTp or ILI

    Just a couple of pages per each mother style.

    I have the book.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevENTj View Post
    Getting good results on any sort of test requires feeding it accurate answers. Yes, mothers are culturally and socially biased towards being SF and they may see themselves as being that even if they're really not.
    making life tough for us NT moms. my kids need ethical men in their lives to counteract their logical mom.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    simply because they attend to the needs of their family/children and they're females and therefore "feelers". It's a common misconception. (and I mostly mean MBTI but it would translate to any other personality "test" out there, which is testing those dichotomies).

    I was in a group this afternoon where the ISTj and the INTj both think they're ISFj. And they're not. It's interesting. Also, there's an ENFj who thinks she's ESFj.
    so true....one root cause of females getting their type wrong. although i think NF women probably are OK with being N because of their F, so they prolly get their types right. it's the F more than the S i think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CILi View Post
    To those of you who've grown up and fled the nest, have you seen your moms' personalities (the whole "type" or even a facet) change much after their "mom" role disappears?
    well as I stated in another thread, my mother does not fit the ideal mother; the source is her own demons she has yet to face. It sounds unscientific but parents can pass on their own demons onto their children.

    however when she is herself and not trying to live up to an ideal, she likes to party, drink, and socialize. she is young at heart. when she is in good health and good spirits she can be really silly. she is very likable and her self-esteem raises up. her sense of humour is tongue and cheek, and if she has been drinking - stay clear - she is the life of the party. I've gone drinking with her many times and she's actually alot of fun. She talks positively, cracks jokes, laughs, tells stories, flirts with men, tries to hook me up with women. If you get her in the right environment, she's great. I love my mom .

    Sounds odd but I guess in the home living together causes undue stress but when we are in a bar and having fun she is very supportive and totally has my back. She thrives in a very social setting, she is loving and loved.

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    I can definitely relate. I kept testing as an SF, and for a while thought I was ISFJ. But as I kept trying to fill the role of an ISFJ mom, denying my true iNuitive self, my mental health began to suffer. Once I realized and fully embraced my inner INFJ, I have been a much happier and much more fulfilled person. Even if it means my house is a mess and we have pizza once a week. I've also stopped letting myself feel guilty about wanting a career in addition to my children.
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