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    I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

    I'll take a simple example - studying.
    I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

    Type related?

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    When someone limits the amount of time you can spend on an activity, how does that make you feel?

    (God, I sound like the psychologist )

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    Hmm...
    It depends on whether or not I want them to do so. Sometimes I need those boundaries to keep myself in check, and at other times they seem totally unnecessary.

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    Sounds like Ni seeking.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Have you tested Ni PoLR?

    Ni PoLR's don't feel time well.

    "I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras."


    Sounds like procrastination. Ni primary types can feel time well, that's why they are Ni primaries...

    Sounds like you may be LSE, ESE, SLE

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    sounds like weak +
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Sounds like Ni seeking.
    Maybe. I'll have to look that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Have you tested Ni PoLR?

    Ni PoLR's don't feel time well.

    "I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras."


    Sounds like procrastination. Ni primary types can feel time well, that's why they are Ni primaries...

    Sounds like you may be LSE, ESE, SLE
    That would mean I'm Ej temperament though, which I really doubt... The only thing I've ever been absolutely sure of is irrationality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    sounds like weak +
    Which, according to my self typing, is supposed to comprise my ego-block.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

    I'll take a simple example - studying.
    I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

    Type related?
    That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    sounds like weak +
    Or possibly devalued ?
    Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    I kind of relate to what you describe - both inactivity and losing sleep, etc. - but not to its reasons. I think Ni egos can be exceptionally procrastinating, but in my case at least, it has nothing to do with not knowing how much is needed and everything with not wanting it to take more than necessary.

    I can see you as a Si-base, for whatever it's worth - Ip temperament and weak Ni make sense. What you say about your habits of note-taking and studying is also something I've noticed in SEI, though I don't really know any SLIs well enough to compare. Maybe people have a point about devalued Te. But I don't think it's enough of a reason on its own to retype, especially seeing as suggestions in this thread combined point towards SLE - a type for whom inaction, not to be confused with laziness, isn't really all this characteristic.

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    Sounds like your creative function. Not being sure how much is good enough, and over or under-doing it, despite the estimates which seemed fine at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.
    Maybe I'm your type Or maybe this applies to a whole spectrum of people, I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    That points out that you're a Static type (Ij or Ep) and probably Irrational, too.
    I'm pretty much the same, btw.
    Why static?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I kind of relate to what you describe - both inactivity and losing sleep, etc. - but not to its reasons. I think Ni egos can be exceptionally procrastinating, but in my case at least, it has nothing to do with not knowing how much is needed and everything with not wanting it to take more than necessary.
    What are your reasons? I'm curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Man View Post
    Sounds like your creative function. Not being sure how much is good enough, and over or under-doing it, despite the estimates which seemed fine at the time.
    Hmm, I don't know. Something about this seems off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    The 'all or nothing' thing in general sounds like some typically human shit people of all types do; you might be surprised to find out how common it really is. I'd recommend this approach to you that helped me with that kind of behavior: Structured Procrastination

    As to your specific example, again I can't say as though that's type-related (on it's own). Personally I can't think of a time being paranoid on whether I've studied enough (I usually study as little as possible and decide to 'wing it' from there). I'd lean maybe towards devalued , if only because it often seems to me that valuers have a harder time prioritizing information and wanting the entire schematic of a topic before they can feel contently informed about it. Whereas more or less naturally operates on an acceptance that all knowledge and decisions will be necessarily based on incomplete information.
    Haha, I like that. Structured procrastination.
    I should try that sometime.

    To be honest, yeah, I do what you do. I usually end up putting off studying and improvising. It always works out well, but I feel like I can do better and fulfill some sort of standard I've set for myself.

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    I'm a total procrastinator. But I never worry about it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    What are your reasons? I'm curious.
    It's not like it's the conscious decision, but a natural mode of operating. Do you start a dishwasher every day, or wait until it's full? I only move when there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done soon. Even if I sometimes regret this later. Otherwise I'd just be working and working and working all the time and feeling I'm getting little done. Stretching it over time is so much more exhausting and wasteful. (Although it seems to work for some people, notably Ijs. I swear some of them spend more time complaining that their workload is changing rapidly than I do working.)

    Plus if you get something done before you have to, it's very likely to turn out unnecessary after all. I'm sure there's a Murphy's law for that or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    It's not like it's the conscious decision, but a natural mode of operating. Do you start a dishwasher every day, or wait until it's full? I only move when there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done soon. Even if I sometimes regret this later. Otherwise I'd just be working and working and working all the time and feeling I'm getting little done. Stretching it over time is so much more exhausting and wasteful. (Although it seems to work for some people, notably Ijs. I swear some of them spend more time complaining that their workload is changing rapidly than I do working.)

    Plus if you get something done before you have to, it's very likely to turn out unnecessary after all.
    I'm sure there's a Murphy's law for that or something.
    lol, so true!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I'd recommend this approach to you that helped me with that kind of behavior: Structured Procrastination
    Very cool resource.

    I also agree that this may not be extremely type-related. It might correlate more or less with various types, but I know I used to have more obvious all-or-nothing patterns when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now I realize that something is better than nothing, and that "all" is a way of exerting too much pressure and perfectionism on myself.

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    I think it's a symptom of our times. Information and entertainment are so widely available it's almost impossible to get around it. The temptation to take a break from work pervades everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    Because what you say is not simply generic "procrastination", but the way you see things, "is" or "is not". It boils down to reproduction, like an artist who makes a portrait, at one point it looks good, but then after several extra strokes it's still good, although different. Which one *is* the (good) one, this is the question? Dynamic types, in my observations, have not this problem, for them everything is "prepare it until it's *satisfactory*", things are not "yes" or "no". Statics can't understand the fluid evolution and cheangeability of things so easily, that things are not a certain way - or at least they don't focus on these, but absolutes.
    In that case, I am 100% static.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

    I'll take a simple example - studying.
    I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

    Type related?
    A rule of thumb that worked for me throughout high school and college on notetaking is: If the professor writes it on the board, copy it down in your notes. Otherwise, just listen. The stuff that s/he puts on the board is what they find important.

    At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.

    I had many more hours of free time, and was far less stressed out that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Very cool resource.

    I also agree that this may not be extremely type-related. It might correlate more or less with various types, but I know I used to have more obvious all-or-nothing patterns when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now I realize that something is better than nothing, and that "all" is a way of exerting too much pressure and perfectionism on myself.
    I love to see this...Ti activation
    If anyone ever says you might be EIE or IEE, go ahead and flash them this post...

    and ask them, how can EIE use Ti? BAHHHH
    and ask them, how can IEE use Ti? HAHAhA

    [quote=jxrtes;697420]That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-26-2010 at 07:28 PM.

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    I relate to what you describe, and think it mainly has to do with perfectionism, secondly with irrationality, and possibly with Se/Ni-valuing, as those types tend to segment time (whereas Si/Ne types, from my pov, seem more comfortable with a natural evolution of time).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Or possibly devalued ?
    Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.
    yep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    What about this case: you make independently the portrait of someone for two times until they are both good. You never compare them side-by-side, but looking to each separately, they are "perfect". Thinking about real-life situation - not philosophically! - how does that make you feel? Do you feel like there's only a good one, requiring the dismissal/destruction of the other? Considering that everytime you compare them against the model, they are fine:
    - both are good, even if they may differ from each other (which is not proven);
    - it can be only one, comparing them with each other is required;
    - none is good, if you created a third one and looked better, the both current ones would have to be dismissed.
    From how I understood your example it would be the 1st ("both") option. And I would have real trouble deciding which one I like better. But this is unless there are significant/notable differences between the two, in which case I would probably be able to decide which one is better. There's also the case where some elements/parameters are better done on one, while other (different) parameters are better on the other; so it's a matter of which elements you give more weight to, and how much (and in which ways) they influence the artwork/whatever as a whole. Say like when you look at the portrait painting from a couple of feet away, or just glance over it briefly so you can get that "first impression" impression.

    P.S. I do endless listening comparisons with my music between different versions of the same song, tweaking and fine-tuning things, reworking details until I get a satisfactory result. Which is practically never, but I always try to reach some sort of a maximum, and squeeze out as much as possible out of everything.
    Last edited by Park; 09-24-2010 at 08:25 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.
    This is true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    I'm gonna play a 'freud' card on you, only cause it reminds me of something.

    You have a discombobulated, undisciplined ego. (It's actually an issue that most of people on this forum have, including myself) Your ego is shaky and unconfident naturally, and you second-guess your own thoughts too much, and you feel too much at odds with your super-ego and id. The ego is what is necessary to become a functional, healthy adult as it's the balancing force between your super-ego and id, both of which are dark, self-destructive forces if left unchecked.

    How to fix your problem: I would meditate, learn to 'lighten up', and re-attune yourself to the big picture. In 2 weeks from now, the bullshit thing you have to study, or what work you have to do won't mean anything, you'll just realize it's a game that people are playing (primarily because they are intimidated by your own id and passion, but that's another topic), there's no way to stop or fight the game, getting mad at it is self-defeating... only way to realize it is to calmly laugh at it and say 'this is all just a game' and then move on, knowing what's true for you in your own heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.



    Or possibly devalued ?
    Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.
    I think it's Ni ignoring. I saw the weak Ni, but had to sort of think about where it feel, and it makes sense that it would be an ignoring, especially if he is an Ne valuer, which clearly, he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I'm a total procrastinator. But I never worry about it.
    Why don't you worry about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    D
    Do you plan a lot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Why don't you worry about it?
    I guess because I have enough experience to know exactly how long something's going to take and do it at the very last minute. Take today for example. soccer pictures. You're supposed to send your kid to the photo line-up with his form filled out for what package you want. Well, we arrived with 3 minutes to spare, I grabbed the form, found a pen and filled out the form, handing it to him just as they were about to go into the gym. lol I do stuff like that all the time. Not exactly sure why.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I guess because I have enough experience to know exactly how long something's going to take and do it at the very last minute. Take today for example. soccer pictures. You're supposed to send your kid to the photo line-up with his form filled out for what package you want. Well, we arrived with 3 minutes to spare, I grabbed the form, found a pen and filled out the form, handing it to him just as they were about to go into the gym. lol I do stuff like that all the time. Not exactly sure why.
    That's having a very good feel for time... in the ego block is good at this, but not having a very good feel for it leads to not being aware of it's movement. So, you truly don't procrastinate because you're consciously aware of time; but, this type of procrastination, that he speaks of, is about not being aware of time and how long something will take. They leave things alone or put things off because of the lack of this awareness. You can also put things off, but having Ni in your ego block will not let things escape your conscious attention...so, you'll do them when they come due.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-26-2010 at 06:36 PM.

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    Maybe, but consciousness is not so straight line, its fractured, I would assume irrationals would be more aware of the tradeoffs in time they are making. Ni people tend to "hesitate" and may therefore fail to take any action at all, and Se is needed to push them into some action when neccesary. I think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    Maybe, but consciousness is not so straight line, its fractured, I would assume irrationals would be more aware of the tradeoffs in time they are making. Ni people tend to "hesitate" and may therefore fail to take any action at all, and Se is needed to push them into some action when neccesary. I think?
    So you're saying that Ni knows what to be done when but needs to be pushed to do it? I think what happens is that Ni gets Se to do it instead. Because, Se loves activity. This would explain why I don't push my duals into activity, instead plan activity and try to communicate to them the necessity of the activity at a given time, hoping that they will make the "right" decision, based on their logical conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    So you're saying that Ni knows what to be done when but needs to be pushed to do it? I think what happens is that Ni gets Se to do it instead. Because, Se loves activity. This would explain why I don't push my duals into activity, instead plan activity and try to communicate to them the necessity of the activity at a given time, hoping that they will make the "right" decision, based on their logical conclusions.
    yeah but if there's no Se nearby you have to do it yourself! When I'm around a dual, yeah, they do it. lol
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    The "all or nothing" thing is a very Beta outlook on life, imo.

    Coincidentally, a while back I was at dinner with my SLE bf & his friends and we got into some random conversation about achievement. Somehow it got to the point where I end up randomly saying "All or nothing..." Everyone at the table just kind of paused & went silent with a transfixed expression at those words. lol. SLE was speechless for a while & said somthing like "wow, that was really awesome. That's going to be my new motto in life."

    Now his boat is named "All or Nothing"
    Last edited by fox; 09-26-2010 at 08:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    It's a very Beta outlook on life, imo.

    Coincidentally, a while back I was at dinner with my SLE bf & his friends and we got into some random conversation about achievement. Somehow it got to the point where I end up randomly saying "All or nothing..." Everyone at the table just kind of paused & went silent with a transfixed expression at those words. lol. SLE was speechless for a while & said somthing like "wow, that was really awesome. That's going to be my new motto in life."

    Now his boat is named "All or Nothing"
    he'd never thought of that before u said it?

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  37. #37
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    I wondered the same thing Merky. By the reaction at that table you'd think I'd spoken the words of god or something. I always thought it was such a common motto in life. But I guess it was more the way I conveyed the phrase than anything . What I meant was that I'd rather go all the way to the top and be the most successful than be stuck in the middle, or be second best.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I wondered the same thing Merky. By the reaction at that table you'd think I'd spoken the words of god or something. I always thought it was such a common motto in life. But I guess it was more the way I conveyed the phrase than anything . What I meant was that I'd rather go all the way to the top and be the most successful than be stuck in the middle, or be second best.
    idk, i used to say that shit all the time. and people would accuse me of having black and white thinking and not being able to see shades of gray, and that i should differentiate more and blah blah fucking blah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I wondered the same thing Merky. By the reaction at that table you'd think I'd spoken the words of god or something. I always thought it was such a common motto in life. But I guess it was more the way I conveyed the phrase than anything . What I meant was that I'd rather go all the way to the top and be the most successful than be stuck in the middle, or be second best.
    my SLE sister-in-law is kind of like this. I think age can temper this outlook a bit too though.

    cute about their reactions! and sooo funny that he used it for his boat name! lol
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    my SLE sister-in-law is kind of like this. I think age can temper this outlook a bit too though.
    Still haven't figured out my current bf's type--too intermeshed, maybe, to be objective--but he is surprisingly way extreme in his all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking. I always have to help him out with that, lol. I sort of know how, because I used to do that more and have learned to see shades of gray. And I do think age and experience can temper this thinking pattern.

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