Duality attraction, etc

[aixelsyd]

.

[discojoe]

There is usually strong mutual attraction between myself and EIEs from the get go.

[Logos]

I am not sure if it is either/or so much as it is a product of circumstance. Duals can sometimes go through long periods in which they do not realize, or rather capitalize, on their mutual compatibility. Sometimes it can be so natural that it is ignored or go about unnoticed by the duals. Where one or both of the duals are deemed physically attractive, then the attraction may be picked up quicker. The (more) attractive dual may only begin to find the other partner increasingly more attractive through long-term exposure and growing cognizance of it. And some may just be naturally slow at recognizing their feelings towards a person. Though if the dual is already dating someone, then the compatibility may be ignored or disregarded. So again, I think it is primarily subject to circumstance than anything else.

[discojoe]

Yeah, I agree with Logos. The mutual attraction I've experienced is probably more due to SEXUAL DESIRE than duality.

[silverchris9]

Why did you put sexual desire in pink, dj?

And lest this post be too off-topic, I think I tend to find SLE women attractive, and the attraction is enhanced by those aspects of personality that are generally recognized as part of SLE behavior. Whether that's natural or due to my own confirmation bias remains unseen.

[discojoe]

Because pink is a manly color.

k done

[Suz]

I am not sure if it is either/or so much as it is a product of circumstance. Duals can sometimes go through long periods in which they do not realize, or rather capitalize, on their mutual compatibility. Sometimes it can be so natural that it is ignored or go about unnoticed by the duals. Where one or both of the duals are deemed physically attractive, then the attraction may be picked up quicker. The (more) attractive dual may only begin to find the other partner increasingly more attractive through long-term exposure and growing cognizance of it. And some may just be naturally slow at recognizing their feelings towards a person. Though if the dual is already dating someone, then the compatibility may be ignored or disregarded. So again, I think it is primarily subject to circumstance than anything else.

Excellent response and everything i was going to (more long-windedly) say.

[tiny_dancer]

I have a friend who I didn't develop feelings for until much (like 10 years) later, and I think the quality of the relationship is FAR better than the duals who I've been wildly attracted to from the beginning. Sometimes I wish I could just shut off my hormones because they really screw things up. There's a mutual friendship, openness, and respect, with no anxiety, mistrust, or clinginess whatsoever. It felt like we were on the same level in pretty much every way. After my ex, you have no idea how amazing that feels. I guess it would be characterized by one day waking up and realizing you're in love with your best friend, while being completely clueless of it up to that point. Hm, now that I think about it I guess it could be the type of relationship that is truly healing for both parties.

But it still didn't become a relationship, for a number of other issues. And now he's dating some chick he met on the internet. (Fuck you e-harmony for messing with the perfection of duality! *shakes fist* lol)

So yeah, I know what you're talking about.

[Suz]

I have a friend who I didn't develop feelings for until much (like 10 years) later, and I think the quality of the relationship is FAR better than the duals who I've been wildly attracted to from the beginning. Sometimes I wish I could just shut off my hormones because they really screw things up. There's a mutual friendship, openness, and respect, with no anxiety, mistrust, or clinginess whatsoever. It felt like we were on the same level in pretty much every way. After my ex, you have no idea how amazing that feels. I guess it would be characterized by one day waking up and realizing you're in love with your best friend, while being completely clueless of it up to that point. Hm, now that I think about it I guess it could be the type of relationship that is truly healing for both parties.

But it still didn't become a relationship, for a number of other issues. And now he's dating some chick he met on the internet. (Fuck you e-harmony for messing with the perfection of duality! *shakes fist* lol)

So yeah, I know what you're talking about.

I feel your pain.

:frown:

Does he know how you feel about him?

[UDP]

It's not unusual at all. chemistry isn't related to duality, necessarily. Chemistry is something else.

[Beautiful sky]

Emerging from the dark because something has been on my mind.

a scenario:

How common do you think it is to meet a dual, find you two are basically perfect for each other (as far as mental compatibility goes coupled with physical attraction, even if it is only aesthetic/knowing someone looks good and is to your tastes, somewhat) and other people see you as being meant to be together, to find someone attractive, but don't feel romantic and/or sexual attraction until some time later? Like, how things fall into place so easily that the excitement hasn't set in even if there is mutual fascination with each other?

Anyone ever experience this? Did the more than platonic feelings emerge later? Maybe there is something about things feeling too easy to make feelings happen right away or two people getting each other so well that it takes some outside intervention and difficulties to arouse more passionate feelings.

Or am I just explaining a new phenomena in its own right?

This also kind of ties with the idea that duality works even with minimum attraction in 'that' way on socionics.com.

food for thought, in any case.

Oh, and any non-serious and off-topic posts, could they be swept to the NSFW/flamming forum if any occur? Thanks.

Duals dwell in two different habitats. Being an introvert, I sleep longer hours and I'm usually up early in the morning and don't really go to bars and clubs and my duals, most, usually are up and out during the weekends while I'm spending quality time with family and such, so I'm more likely to meet ISTp's and ESTp's in the places I hang out.

I've never wanted to seriously date; I just sort of wanted to run into the one, like let it happen naturally, but in a big and busy city as LA, sometimes that can't be left to chance. So I had to start doing things in routine. Like hanging out at the same places every day. I guess eventually, one of my duals will notice that I have the same "interest"; I, being naturally curious about my environment, have a tendency to explore and not keep a routine with where I eat and have my coffee every morning, but having changed that to my dual's waive length, I am enjoying seeing more duals.

A little research about your dual's habitat and common word usage will allow you to meet your duals in the right places and recognize them.

[Park]

I think these thoughts about "duality" and the dynamics of psychological attraction are only temporary, and you'll probably get over the habit of idealizing relationships or anything else at some further point in life. Simply because magical scenarios ain't happening in real life, and nothing ever plays out as imagined; or even if it does, the experience you get out of it is not something you can understand or prepare for/anticipate in advance. So, the less you think about stuff like finding happiness and things falling into place etc, the more chances of it to happen. My 2 cents, anyway.

[Beautiful sky]

I think these thoughts about "duality" and the dynamics of psychological attraction are only temporary, and you'll probably get over the habit of idealizing relationships or anything else at some further point in life. Simply because magical scenarios ain't happening in real life, and nothing ever plays out as imagined; or even if it does, the experience you get out of it is not something you can understand or prepare for/anticipate in advance. So, the less you think about stuff like finding happiness and things falling into place etc, the more chances of it to happen. My 2 cents, anyway.

And this is how Ni role works....

[Suz]

It's not unusual at all. chemistry isn't related to duality, necessarily. Chemistry is something else.

i think they are related, big time. Duality is a particular kind of chemistry. Of course you can feel chemistry with people of other types, but it's a different sort of chemistry.

[Park]

And I agree, Parkster, but I think you are misunderstanding my point

I think I got your point, but gave myself the freedom to drift slightly off topic, to share some related thoughts.

I am basing this off an experience and not a 'magical scenario' which I get but was uncalled for...

I wasn't implying that you're basing it on a magical scenario, sorry if it came out that way.

[FDG]

i think they are related, big time. Duality is a particular kind of chemistry. Of course you can feel chemistry with people of other types, but it's a different sort of chemistry.

Yeah, I agree. In my experience, they're obviously related. I understand how other people's experience can differ, so I doubt we can universalize any relationship between duality and chemistry.

[Beautiful sky]

It's not unusual at all. chemistry isn't related to duality, necessarily. Chemistry is something else.

I agree with you; for once

Chemistry is attraction and most people don't know what they are looking for except for pretty eyes and other body parts...most people don't read into things that deeply.

[hotasphyxiation]

So are duals usually drawn to each other at first or do they kind of just pass each other by unnoticed..? Are dual relations easy to start up (and how likely is it that you would want to get to know each other if you weren't forced to interact on a regular basis, such as at work or in school)? Is it true that the extrovert might not realize that the introvert is compatible with them in the beginning because they're looking for someone who is more like themselves and vice versa or can both people recognize the qualities that, according to socionics, they should be drawn to in the other person?

I mean I know every situation is different but, even before I started reading about this stuff, I think I've always been attracted to SLEs... their whole demeanor is just soooo damn attractive... I'm pretty sure a guy I dated recently was SLE and I have never been so turned on/intrigued by a man in my entire life... seemed like the feeling was mutual too (LOL while it lasted), but at the same time both of us were holding back from each other, like neither of us wanted to show any vulnerability and look like the weaker person. I think that's why we aren't dating any more (plus he's a dirty dirty dog... but a really sexy dirty dog ). Anyway what I was trying to get at is that I have always been able to detect the inherent studliness of my duals, not just physically but mentally too and I was wondering if this works on both ends of the spectrum. And if they don't recognize my IEI-esque captivating undeniable allure and girlish charms then that really sucks for them.. seriously though they are soooo so so sexy and I hope they notice me the way I notice them

[neverthesame]

I don't find ESFj's attractive. Ever. In fact, the only Feelers I can be attracted to are IEEs. Feelers...ewww...

[Suz]

Have you actually interacted closely with what you think were ESE, or is this sort of a theoretical comment.if the former, Neverthesame, looks like you need to either re-examine what you have in mind as ESEs or reconsider your socionics typing of LII.

[07490]

Have you actually interacted closely with what you think were ESE, or is this sort of a theoretical comment.if the former, Neverthesame, looks like you need to either re-examine what you have in mind as ESEs or reconsider your socionics typing of LII.

well your aren't always attracted to your dual. Before I knew socionics I wasn't aware that I was attracted to my dual. you are right that you if you interact more closely with them you can appreciate them more psychologically. But a lot of people only go for the physical look.

[squark]

Emerging from the dark because something has been on my mind.

a scenario:

How common do you think it is to meet a dual, find you two are basically perfect for each other (as far as mental compatibility goes coupled with physical attraction, even if it is only aesthetic/knowing someone looks good and is to your tastes, somewhat) and other people see you as being meant to be together, to find someone attractive, but don't feel romantic and/or sexual attraction until some time later? Like, how things fall into place so easily that the excitement hasn't set in even if there is mutual fascination with each other?

Anyone ever experience this? Did the more than platonic feelings emerge later? Maybe there is something about things feeling too easy to make feelings happen right away or two people getting each other so well that it takes some outside intervention and difficulties to arouse more passionate feelings.

Or am I just explaining a new phenomena in its own right?

This also kind of ties with the idea that duality works even with minimum attraction in 'that' way on socionics.com.

food for thought, in any case.

Oh, and any non-serious and off-topic posts, could they be swept to the NSFW/flamming forum if any occur? Thanks.

I don't know how common it is to find and easily fit with your dual. Hasn't been common for me personally. Although, there was an EIE at the place I used to work. We got assigned to a project together, and it took no time at all to have a great rapport, and it was a lot of fun working with him. It was not a romantic kind of chemistry, because he was happily married. Instead it was just easy being around him, we got each other, and joked around a lot.

Understanding a person goes a long way, and for long-term stuff, I'd much rather be around someone who understands me and is easy to be around, than someone who drives me crazy with desire, but fails when it comes to being able to communicate or understand each other. However, if someone just doesn't do anything for you, don't expect them to "grow on you" because regardless of how hideous they look, it's probably more than just their looks that is repelling you.

[Park]

fuck you

[neverthesame]

Have you actually interacted closely with what you think were ESE, or is this sort of a theoretical comment.if the former, Neverthesame, looks like you need to either re-examine what you have in mind as ESEs or reconsider your socionics typing of LII.

Tbh I was never close to an ESE male (no one I could type anyway), I'm mostly surrounded by SLIs and IEEs. It was more of a theoretical comment as I don't know any ESE males. Only SLI's, LIE's and IEE's are attracted to me, and I'm attracted to them.
The only ESE I know is one of my best friends, but we used to have some issues during our friendship because I wasn't as outgoing as she was and because she thought I was too cold and unfeeling, sometimes.

[Suz]

Tbh I was never close to an ESE male (no one I could type anyway), I'm mostly surrounded by SLIs and IEEs. It was more of a theoretical comment as I don't know any ESE males. Only SLI's, LIE's and IEE's are attracted to me, and I'm attracted to them.
The only ESE I know is one of my best friends, but we used to have some issues during our friendship because I wasn't as outgoing as she was and because she thought I was too cold and unfeeling, sometimes.

send some of those SLIs my way!

[protoss]

attraction doesn't really have anything to do with chemistry or personality or stuff like that, women are usually attracted to "the leader of the pack" or the guy with most money ..or has killed the biggest elephant or wild boar depending on where you're from i guess.

i mean, i see lots of dual couples where i live - lots of ESE/LII and SLE/IEI couples for example, but the thing that makes them attracted to eachother isn't really how their personality matches but rather how it would turn out for them on the social ladder depending on if they get together. If they're duals/activation or semi-duals the relationship actually lasts instead of going down in flames after a few months ofc, but attraction is still which guy has a higher standing on the "ladder" compared to other guys and how physically fit the woman is and what rep she's got and so on.

It seems to be different when people get older however, the only opposite gender duals i seem to attract are around 60 or so when the ones in my age go for teh alpha/beta males and so on.

[humblepie]

attraction doesn't really have anything to do with chemistry or personality or stuff like that, women are usually attracted to "the leader of the pack" or the guy with most money ..or has killed the biggest elephant or wild boar depending on where you're from i guess.

i mean, i see lots of dual couples where i live - lots of ESE/LII and SLE/IEI couples for example, but the thing that makes them attracted to eachother isn't really how their personality matches but rather how it would turn out for them on the social ladder depending on if they get together. If they're duals/activation or semi-duals the relationship actually lasts instead of going down in flames after a few months ofc, but attraction is still which guy has a higher standing on the "ladder" compared to other guys and how physically fit the woman is and what rep she's got and so on.

It seems to be different when people get older however, the only opposite gender duals i seem to attract are around 60 or so when the ones in my age go for teh alpha/beta males and so on.

i disagree, i for one have never gone for a man just because he was the alpha male or the guy with the most money. i don't have any friends i can think of who do this either.

[humblepie]

Emerging from the dark because something has been on my mind.

a scenario:

How common do you think it is to meet a dual, find you two are basically perfect for each other (as far as mental compatibility goes coupled with physical attraction, even if it is only aesthetic/knowing someone looks good and is to your tastes, somewhat) and other people see you as being meant to be together, to find someone attractive, but don't feel romantic and/or sexual attraction until some time later? Like, how things fall into place so easily that the excitement hasn't set in even if there is mutual fascination with each other?

Anyone ever experience this? Did the more than platonic feelings emerge later? Maybe there is something about things feeling too easy to make feelings happen right away or two people getting each other so well that it takes some outside intervention and difficulties to arouse more passionate feelings.

Or am I just explaining a new phenomena in its own right?

This also kind of ties with the idea that duality works even with minimum attraction in 'that' way on socionics.com.

food for thought, in any case.

Oh, and any non-serious and off-topic posts, could they be swept to the NSFW/flamming forum if any occur? Thanks.

i saw my dual as a person first and as a romantic interest second. like after two years of knowing him, although now i can't for the life of me understand how i didn't notice how sexy he is.

[humblepie]

I don't really agree on the part about alpha males and what women want but see what you are saying. In my case, I think it goes down to the fact I am almost exclusively attracted to women and have recently accepted this. I also accept that my feelings lie elsewhere and that that will not change and I quite frankly am happy where they are whether they go somewhere or not (meaning take a more concrete form). I thought that maybe it was too soon, but I realize that it has more to do with what I mentioned (because usually I am instantly attracted and know how I feel and usually do end up falling for the person for other reasons, but yeah).

Fortunately I have made a good friend who knows all this and is fine with it, but I am not stupid that it hurts, but I realize it would hurt more if I pretended to like someone like that when my feelings are only platonic.

In the rare cases I am really attracted to guys, it's definitely not to your typical Alpha male as I prefer dominance or more equality. I mean, I obviously want to be with people who are reasonably well off, have goals, are educated and intelligent and are successful in their own right. I want someone who motivates me and vice-versa, not someone who drags me down or vice-versa. But I am not into being with someone just for status or whatever. I only want to be with someone I genuinely love. The rest, including Socionics, can take to the back of the bus for all I care.

I think this is a lesson to me that duality isn't everything and that I would rather love someone I genuinely feel deeply for (though socionics takes some consideration as it is easiest to feel that way for someone who is mentally compatible, and for me, that would be Gammas for the most part, particularly the irrationals of the quadra). But love should come first. I usually have pretty good intuition if things will work with someone or not because if they don't, I tend to know to back off and not actually pursue a relationship if that chance even comes about.

what kind of intuitions would you have that would tell you if a relationship would work or not?

[humblepie]

Hard to explain. I just have a very good sixth sense which I often trust but end up over-analyzing other possibilities and distrust it only to realize my intuition was correct the first time. When my emotions are involved, I distrust it even more because I think it's too good to be true and/or else think I am just thinking what I want to think (that this person feels the same, for instance, even if it should be obvious, but unless they say it clearly, I don't get it until too late, the bad thing about being a victim type versus aggressor, perhaps). But when my emotions are not involved, I often can tell things right off the bat because I am more objective, calm, and collected.

I mean, I don't know how to answer the question of "what kind of intuitions" as intuitions or intuitions. But I gain an image of the individual and model that image in my mind with how I predict that individual and I and circumstances together will play out.

I assess mental compatibility, the likelihood of us getting along. I can be greatly attracted to someone but never want to date them because I know we butt heads and fight and I end up being furious with the person (this happens with most of the few males I fall for, but I think socionics, in those cases, had more to do with it since theoretically it was a bad match to begin with) and the love (using the word loosely) I feel begins to feel like utter contempt.

Or say we do get along but I sense our interactions lacking momentum and figure that this will just end up being a waste of time and decide to stay friends.

etc.

Which explains why I have yet to have experienced an actual romantic relationship in my life.

are you an intp by any chance?

[humblepie]

Yes. I do think it's largely an ILI thing what I do, at least it's how Ni and Te plays out for me in these sort of things. But I think being able to gauge people's interest in me and what kind of interest it is is also related to being a sexual type in ennea speak combined with what I said.

i've spoken to alot of intp's who thought their dual wasn't interested in them but they turned out to be wrong. i was talking to one esfp guy who told me an intp dumped him because she thought she had nothing to offer him. he is still pining after her 3 years later. i had one intp ask if he should end things with his esfp girlfriend. his reason for wanting to end it was that she was too good for him. he knew she loved him but felt he could never make her happy. i told him i'd kick his ass if he did since she'd end up with someone she didn't love in a desperate attempt to forget him and how would that be helping her? it seemed to do the trick, he stayed with her. i'm just wondering if it's possible you could be doing the same thing but are unaware of it. since you don't give things a chance based on first impressions you would have no way of knowing for sure.

[humblepie]

I'll admit with my first dual (who made me realize a part of my orientation, being female) I didn't know or didn't believe loved me as I was in love and it was like we knew it but there were a lot of other problems which made it unfeasible. But I'm a lot better now at trusting my hunches when I think someone I like also likes me, though I am not great at making first moves, not as much as I wish I was.

So I think it's natural for ILIs to be like that, but I think practice also helps curb that natural sense of being all "there's no way they would like me like that...I'm not good enough, etc, etc"

what? are you gay aswell? not judging just asking. well i'm enfp so that kinda goes without saying.

anyway, i hope you'll be a bit more confident of yourself in future. it's hard to see why another person would want you sometimes. often times i find i am wanted for reasons i would never have thought of and the things i once thought were things i was admired for i actually wasn't. thinking my Te was hot shit for instance when really i was badly lacking in it.

[betterthan]

Chemistry and duality are NOT related. If you think so - you have just run into duals who also happen to be people you have good chemistry with.

There is a 'dual' attraction but it's not chemistry.

[FDG]

Chemistry and duality are NOT related. If you think so - you have just run into duals who also happen to be people you have good chemistry with.

That's not true. You're not going have a good chemistry with every dual, but ceteris paribus you're going to have a better chemistry with your dual if everything else lines up. Otherwise, any comparison would be impossible.

[betterthan]

That's not true. You're not going have a good chemistry with every dual, but ceteris paribus you're going to have a better chemistry with your dual if everything else lines up. Otherwise, any comparison would be impossible.

We are pretty much saying the same thing.
Chemistry is sparks - you don;t get that with someone because they are your dual. Speaking from experience.

[Absurd]

If they're not related then you have chemistry between people not even in the same quadra/opposing quadra, at least on this forum. And it is a damn fact, just browse thru it.

[EyeSeeCold]

My high school physics teacher once told me that me and the girl I sat next to had great chemistry. She was SEE...(a typical representation, I might add). I never "had it" for her, but we had "not boring" conversations. She was one of the few females I could talk to without being reserved. We might have developed a relationship had it not been for the SLE in front of me.

[EyeSeeCold]

aixelsyd, I am truly curious. How did you confuse conflict/quasi with duality/identity? I am asking in your best interest, do you really think you are SEE? Or do you wish to be SEE?

[EyeSeeCold]

Well, if you're going through a lot of confusion, I can understand that you would want to feel a part of something. But you shouldn't try to conform to titles, it's unhealthy. It would be better to seek identity in something positive like family, church, volunteer groups or friends.