SFW xII

[CILi]

-

[Suz]

Fi-valuing. That's the only thing i can say for sure from those pics. The first couple, I was about to say maybe ILI, but in that last pic Fe-POLR goes out the window, and he's kind of pursing his lips like I've noticed EII's tend to do.

[Suz]

oh I just read your OP's text prior to the pics. Yeah I go with EII, at least by VI.

Why does he think he's mistyped?

p.s. In my current opinion, MBTI types should never be "converted" to socionics types. There is no magic conversion factor. It's a totally different system with a different typing process. And you can't use MBTI type for inter-type relation analysis; converting it is misleading.

[Aiss]

First thought: EII.

Considering VI accuracy, it makes this option very unlikely.

[Krig the Viking]

You V.I. more Delta than Alpha, I think. Have you considered IEE? Your certainty on the Ne/Se axis makes me wonder if that's your base function. Also, in my experience IEEs often have difficulty figuring out their type. They can too easily imagine themselves being any type.

[Suz]

You V.I. more Delta than Alpha, I think. Have you considered IEE? Your certainty on the Ne/Se axis makes me wonder if that's your base function. Also, in my experience IEEs often have difficulty figuring out their type. They can too easily imagine themselves being any type.

Yeah IEE actually crossed my mind too for him. If it means anything to you CiLI, i'm INFJ in MBTI. I dont think MBTI INFP or INFJ necessarily correlate with emo goths, etc, but I'm getting the impression that the emo goth types are a subset of socionics IEI, but still I wouldn't necessarily generalize that way. For instance, Jennifer Aniston is IEI and I wouldn't say she's an emo goth. And probably there are multiple different types within the goth community (I dont know much about them actually, but they do strike me as a sort of beta NF thing to be involved in).

I'm often gaga for ESE girls; I'm pretty chill and comfortable with LSE's of any gender, though not rabidly attracted at first; SEE's and I find each other mutually peculiar; and, when paired with an SLE, I playfully fight and banter. I've never "hated" or even "severely disliked" anyone before, so I'm not sure I could pinpoint which types tend I don't get along with.

Also you dont necessarily go "gaga" for your dual. You feel duality only once you get to know each other and are working closely together, and that feeling of duality is what hooks you. Particularly if you're the extravert. You might not even notice your duals at first (i feel like i just directly quoted Aushra ). So if you're IEE, your dual would be SLI. I'm a fan of 'em myself!

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Suz]

well interesting you should mention this CILi, because this is exactly one of the reasons I mistyped myself IEI when i first started. When I was going through the type descriptions I didn't even bother reading the extraverted ones because i figured i am not an "extravert" in the commonly understood sense. I am very quiet and shy, especially in new or uncomfortable situations, and when i open up in a goofy way it's only when i feel relatively safe and appropriate doing so and happens pretty rarely. I tend to prefer being by myself than with people I dont share an Fi bond with, and when i am with the people i share an Fi-bond with, I prefer working to create more Fi with them, not so much Fe.

Too much socializing can wear me down. I've realized now that this happens because socializing + doing all the new and interesting things i want to do + work causes me to cut down on sleep and taking care of myself (probably Si-dual seeking). When i do hang out with friends, or try to make new friends, my emphasis is on creating a relationship (i.e. fi), I actually dont like it when there's too much Fe going on. I dont like loud parties where I have to shout to talk (I am very soft-spoken).

I also didn't recognize myself in the "flirtation" aspect of IEEs, but now that i think about it, I think i do come across flirtier than I realize (and that's another key thing about IEEs--when we dont think we're flirting, people think we are). It's never intentional on my part, in fact when i want to "intentionally" flirt I feel like I cant do it because i'd be too embarrassed, or I feel like i'm doing it in a highly clumsy way, which is also embarrassing.

So, all those out there who like to show off how flirty they are -- that's Fe. That's not IEE-ness. IEE flirtation is done innocently and pretty much unconsciously.

I think when compared to people of Fe-valuing quadras, IEE's do come across as shy people (or at least a subset of us do) even though we are processing info in an extratim way, reflecting back on objects, as opposed to introtim (reflecting through oneself about objects).

In fact i think sometimes EIIs can even seem more extraverted socially than IEEs because they are using Fi more strongly and for that you need to interact with people. My sister is EII and while i think she really is more quiet than me and she lets me do the talking if we're together in a public place, she does tend to reach out to make friends with people a little bit more readily than me. I dont know though, the difference is small that way.

p.s. I also avoid my phone except to suit my ESE mom to make sure i'm ok (and she always wants to talk about just anything like what she bought at the grocery store that day and to find out what I bought -- not of interest to me, but I humor her), and like you said, to arrange any fun and interesting things to do with friends (brief phone calls). Of course there are the hour-long phone call here and there with a friend i haven't seen in a long time. Those happen maybe once-twice a month.

[DirectorAbbie]

Your hair's a mess.
If you're EII, you may be considering LII because growing up with Alphas makes you lean Alpha and respect Alpha qualities.
I'm not going to vote yet.

[Suz]

FWIW, in years past, I did try beating this "filter" with a little alcohol, hoping that the "IEE within" might magically come out, but low doses just made me dopey and drowsy. In other words, it made me more me. An often funny me, but still no "life of the party."

See but that's the special thing about IEEs--that we HAVE a filter (and that's what SLIs LOVE because they hate Fe). Life of the party is Fe, often obnoxious Fe-HA like SLEs and ILEs have.

Your IEE within is always showing, dont worry. No need for alcohol.

I really think you're IEE actually, from all that you've said.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[neverthesame]

You look IEI, CILi.
Just my two cents.

[Krig the Viking]

Hmm. Your descriptions of your social interactions do sound rather like Fi-Superego, or at least weak Fi.
For example:

Right off the bat, I assume I'd annoy people by interacting with them, so I try to make them happy by not really interacting at all.

This sounds like the typical Fi-Superego who has a very difficult time trying to discern whether people like him or not, and winds up just assuming people don't like him unless they indicate otherwise, just to be safe.

Their common complaint was always "You're too quiet" or "Do you ever talk?" or "Speak up, loser, are you stalking me?!". Truth be told, if there was ever any IEE in me, SLI chicks done blowed it out.

If these really are indicative of girls' responses, it would seem to point away from you being a Feeling type. Even EIIs, who are often fairly quiet, are better at establishing social relationships than that. Again, a Logical type seems more likely.

As far as the link between the socionics concept of Extraversion, and being traditionally socially outgoing, technically all Extraversion means is that one is outwardly-focused rather than inwardly-focused. Extraverts focus most of their attention on exploring and influencing things out in the world, while Introverts focus on sorting out their inner understanding of how things out in the world are connected and related to one another. Extraverts do tend to be somewhat more socially outgoing than their Introverted equivalents, but from what I can see skill at socializing and being socially competent/confident is more closely related to Feeling and Sensing. I would say that the dichotomies which most strongly influence social skill are Feeling, Sensing, and Extraversion. This is why ESE and SEE are widely considered the best in the socion at socializing, and LII and ILI the worst.

Of course, social skill can be learned by any type, but LII and ILI will have the most difficulty learning, while ESE and SEE barely need to be taught at all.

Anyway, I would tenatively type you as Alpha NT, but that could change if it turns out you've had some kind of unusual upbringing that has negatively affected your social skill and outgoingness.

Have you ever looked at ILE as a possibility? I'm not saying that's what I think you are, but I do think it's worth a look.

[Krig the Viking]

Hmm. Logically analyzing your self-descriptions makes me think Alpha NT. However, the intuitive "vibe" I get from you is still Delta NF. It's like your self-description doesn't match up with your V.I. and the general tone of your forum behaviour. I must be missing something. Or maybe my Demonstrative function is broken, and picking up inaccurate intuitive vibes.

[Krig the Viking]

Kinda funny that you point that out, really.

For a decade or so, I'd pretty much told myself, "Fi's who you are and what you're good at." But looking back over high-school, college, and all, I've taken some pretty big mis-steps with it. Admitting to it feels like a punch in the gut; but, in retrospect, that is Superego-ish, no?

On the other hand, admitting to failure in the areas of your Ego strength can be especially hard to take. So that's no help.

Not trying to pry or anything, so feel free not to answer, but are you at all sensitive about Fi matters?

Well, I was heavily influenced by my EII mom, so I tend to be rather hypersensitive when it comes to my Role Fi. Gulenko calls it an "accentuated" function on his blog. On the plus side, I tend to be very meticulous when it comes to being polite and trying to make sure everybody likes me; on the down side, it means I can sometimes be almost paralyzed in situations that require taking a risk of offending people or making them not like me. In general, I pay more attention to it than the average LII would, but since I'm not really any stronger at it than the average LII, it can cause stress and frustration.

An EII raised by Alpha parents, on the other hand, might have sensitive Ti: paying more attention to whether something makes logical sense or not, but often frustrated by not being very good at being able to tell. Such an EII might also feel somewhat pressured to display positive emotions in order to keep the surrounding emotional atmosphere positive, which would feel increasingly like a distraction from the things he really wants to focus on, especially if he felt pressured to keep his personal opinion on people and things to himself, for the sake of keeping the emotional atmosphere positive.

I don't know if this will be at all conclusive, but consider the following scenario:

Bill comes up to you and says "Jane doesn't like you, because you're shorter than she is."

Which would be your first or strongest response (assuming that both are true):

1) "That doesn't make sense, because I'm taller than Jane."
2) "That's not true, I know that Jane likes me."

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if you're more confident and more focused on the accuracy or inaccuracy of logical arguments, or if you're more confident and focused on assessing people's opinions and feelings about others and yourself.

Distilling it to the direction of focus, you've made the E-I divide pretty clear for me.

ILE-Dad often reminds me, in a nice way, that I really need to get out more and do something in the world. I talk a big talk and analyze just about everything; but consumed by non-stop efforts to understand the world (your I-defintion), I never really apply those thoughts.

On that note, I'd assume most 16T-ers fall in the Introvert camp ("sorting out their inner understanding of how things out in the world are connected and related to one another"); but I guess that's obviously not the case. If Extroverts aren't here to focus on "understanding how Socionics works" (boring as it sounds), I'd like to know what draws them in.

Yeah, you're sounding fairly Introverted. I'm going to operate on that assumption unless contrary evidence arises.

No worries there. Food on the table, a roof over my head. Private, parochial-ish schooling. College on Papa's dime. Loving parents, if not too loving.

It'd be criminal to blame my social stuff on anyone/anything else.

Hold on, when you say "if not too loving," do you mean your parents were perhaps overly affectionate toward you, or not affectionate enough? People have been known to use that phrase both ways, and this might have relevance to our attempt to determine your type.

Not sure how likely it'd be, but I'll definitely give it some thought.

Two of my best friends growing up were ILE and, mentioned before, my Dad is too. In those cases, at least, I always played the reserved, over-cautious foil to their off-the-walls, mad-scientist insanity.

Coulda been a subtype thing, though.

It was just a thought, and it seems less likely now, all things considered.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[DirectorAbbie]

What's it mean for someone like you, though, surrounded by a little bit of every quadra? Are you more well-rounded (in personality, of course) or generally kinda frustrated with the fam?

I'm not surrounded by every quadra. The lack of Gammas in my family makes Gammas more interesting. They share some of the same values as me, but they were an unknown for quite a while. Even in my extended family I have few Gammas, and they're on my mom's side.

It was just Deltas and Alphas until my SLE brother arrived, so we're a very family. My youngest brother has showed me what pests Betas can be and that being intelligent is often more important than being a compatable type. (If he were stupid as well as annoying, I would have moved out by now.)

[717495]

I think I'm always going to see you as an ILI because that's your username. Creative subtype too.

[DirectorAbbie]

I think I'm always going to see you as an ILI because that's your username. Creative subtype too.

I thought his username was a variation of "silly."

[717495]

It would make a lot more sense if you were an ILI.

[Suz]

I thought his username was a variation of "silly."

I thought "silly" too. That username is so CUTE!!!

[717495]

Creative Intuitive Logical Introvert.

[eunice]

My impression of you so far is that you seem rather knowledgeable about and accepting of another culture which is not your own. Based on the posts you have made so far, you appear to be someone who is calm, level-headed and mature. Your writings are clear and concise, and without the unnecessary drama. Hope that there are more people in the forum like you.

Btw, do you happen to be an architect by training, or in a profession relating to analytical and planning work? You look like you are from such a field, based on my observation of my friends and acquaintances I have known irl. I know it sounds illogical, but I think people from certain professions have a certain "look" and "feel"....lol.....

Anyway, as for your type, I am inclined to think that you are Delta NF. Not sure which one yet.

[Park]

[Crispy]

Some INXj fo sho

[eunice]

In re: "culture," do you think interest in other cultures/peoples/places is at all type-related? You're obviously pretty talented in that "field," if you will, and data-mining the forum for posts with similar interests brings back predominantly Ne-valuers. Some people just seem to have a rabid fascination to know, understand, and relate to someone "other" that I can't quite pinpoint yet.


In re: "drama," as you're referring to it, is that an Fe-thing, an Fi-thing, or a blend of a whole bunch of things?

I noticed that Ne and Ni types tend to show a strong interest in other cultures, but Ne types more so. For example, when I am interested in a certain culture, I tend to immerse myself in nearly anything relating to it e.g. history, literature, pop culture (drama, music, movies, entertainers etc.), language, even though it might not have any economical value in the real world. I like cultures/countries which are able hold strong to their traditions, and be technologically advanced and up-to-date at the same time e.g. Japan, Korea.

As for the perspective of an Ni type, they seem more focused in their interest and are more concerned about whether their interest will eventually lead to a certain goal in mind. For instance, an Ni type might consider spending time to learn a foreign language because that certain language will help them to develop their career in future. Just an observation I have noticed amongst the people I have known irl.

As for the comment about "drama", Fi types tend to prefer to be more straight to the point and do not like to exaggerate too much. I have known of some Fe types who tend to use bombastic or "flowery" words to describe something based on imagery, whereas Fi types seem to describe the same stuff using just plain words or providing it with as much facts as possible to describe the physical state. That's probably why I get impatient when reading Shakespeare's works. Lol.

[Suz]

I noticed that Ne and Ni types tend to show a strong interest in other cultures, but Ne types more so. For example, when I am interested in a certain culture, I tend to immerse myself in nearly anything relating to it e.g. history, literature, pop culture (drama, music, movies, entertainers etc.), language, even though it might not have any economical value in the real world. I like cultures/countries which are able hold strong to their traditions, and be technologically advanced and up-to-date at the same time e.g. Japan, Korea.

As for the perspective of an Ni type, they seem more focused in their interest and are more concerned about whether their interest will eventually lead to a certain goal in mind. For instance, an Ni type might consider spending time to learn a foreign language because that certain language will help them to develop their career in future. Just an observation I have noticed amongst the people I have known irl.

As for the comment about "drama", Fi types tend to prefer to be more straight to the point and do not like to exaggerate too much. I have known of some Fe types who tend to use bombastic or "flowery" words to describe something based on imagery, whereas Fi types seem to describe the same stuff using just plain words or providing it with as much facts as possible to describe the physical state. That's probably why I get impatient when reading Shakespeare's works. Lol.

OMG!!! I do that too!!! It's one of my passions in life!

[Suz]

There's always something in your writing (or the way you write it) that really resonates with me. Either it sounds a whole lot like who I am, or it sounds like someone I'd really like to know (or maybe both). Separating the two's no easy feat, but you're definitely poking at something relevant.

That said, IEE (in your description) sounds about as complex as a person could be. The ultimate paradox. Almost a dual in itself.

You may not be big on subtypes, but do you have sense of how your experience compares to other IEEs? Is your personality par-for-the-course of an IEE, or is it kinda peculiar, in a way?

Sorry CILi, i'd meant to respond to this post of yours a few days ago, but then got seriously sidetracked.

I wouldn't call it a dual in itself, but i have made the same observation as you about IEEs (and i think deltas in general to an extent) being a bit paradoxical. I think all types have their complexities, but I do agree that we are a slightly different breed of extraverts than the others. The main thing to keep in mind is that the socionics term of extraversion (extratim) does not refer to the common definition of social extraversion. IEE extraversion is extraversion of intuition, which doesn't necessarily manifest in being highly sociable. I would say, it manifests more in the sense of taking initiative. The other Ne-dominant type (ILE) has an Fe hidden agenda which is what makes them loud and obnoxious (IEEs dont have that).

Why i wouldn't call this phenomenon a "dual in itself" is because we still need someone to help us achieve much needed Si and remind us that we need it, and assist us in our eternal quest for Te.


Oh and as far as whether I would consider myself a typical IEE... that's a tough question to answer. I related very very much to Rick DeLong's extended IEE description (he is IEE too), and in fact that is where, in contrast to descriptions written by socionists of other types, I did finally recognize myself in it, more than any other types i'd considered for myself previously. Some people on the forum whose opinion I respect as informed and reliable think the way i express myself (and look) is very consistent with Fi-IEE. I've compared myself with some IEE celebrities, and the perspective, mannerisms, and demeanor seem very similar. I also find that my intertype relations seem to be consistent with this typing as well. I experienced duality with a pretty clear cut Te-SLI (Jean Gabin's twin, pretty much), I really like Te-valuing, Fi-valuing people, and I put a lot of importance to Si, even though i have trouble getting around to it, often.

[Suz]

You look IEI, CILi.
Just my two cents.

I couldn't disagree more.

The pursed lips, trying to stifle some inappropriate Fe that was generated by embarrassment at the Se involved in getting his picture taken is very very similar to reactions my EII sister and I have.

In addition, the eyes project the smile (Fi valuing > Fe valuing), and the gaze is nice and relaxed (Ne/Si valuing).

[Suz]

Their common complaint was always "You're too quiet" or "Do you ever talk?" or "Speak up, loser, are you stalking me?!". Truth be told, if there was ever any IEE in me, SLI chicks done blowed it out.

---

What mean and superficial things to say!!! dont let those chicks get u down. Those would be perfect examples of responses from Fe-valuing types. I seriously doubt they were SLIs. Maybe they were LSIs, Fe-seeking, Se-ego.

[Suz]

Is there still Se if I took the pictures myself?

well tbh i'm not sure if i really meant Se. Yeah i or more so my sister would make the same exact expression, yeah even if we were taking pics of ourselves. Just knowing that others would see the pics would prompt the expression i think.

Well let me ask you this... what was going through your mind as you posed for the pics? Were you feeling awkward snapping those pics of yourself?

[Suz]

Having studied IEEs way too little, I'm not sure I'd really recognize the difference between Fi and Ne subtypes yet, but I'll definitely see what I can find on 'em. My hesitation to consider that self-typing may just be a generalization of all IEEs as one of the subtypes (most likely Ne, the one less "you").

Honestly I was not the one who pinpointed my subtype for myself. When i read the subtype descriptions (the very few that are out there), I relate to both, so initially i thought i didn't have a subtype. I guess others kind of felt I fit better into the Fi-subtype, and the one thing I do know is that I Te, a heck of a LOT, and I find Te-SLIs and Te-LSEs more strikingly attractive than the Si-subtypes. And i have to admit that I do share a certain "look" with the Fi-IEEs that i dont quite with the Ne-IEEs.

[Suz]

Something along the lines of:

"Don't be ugly. Don't be ugly. Pleeease don't be ugly."

[snaps pic]

.
.
.

[looks at phone]

"Mmm. ...Das ugly."

LOL!! That's hilarious!

Ni-wise, the goal-pursuit (i.e. language learning) is rough. I acquire other languages with little effort, but little effort's a little more than I've got. I really admire someone who's got the discipline to put up with daily study.

When you type people of another culture (like in your Work In Progress thread, for instance), are you generally fluent in the languages of those you type, or do you assess people outside the context of speech/words/etc.? (FWIW, I hugely depend on the latter, and thus probably screw up 99% of the time.)

I just want to comment that wrt language learning, i'll try to learn a foreign language if i need it to explore the particular culture i'm immersing myself in. For example, when i was interested in Latinamerican and Mexican culture, I learned Spanish with great gusto--I was in college at the time, and enthusiastically signed up for those courses, went through the whole series; my spanish homework was the highlight of my days! And the fact that i was trying to read all this cultural info in spanish, even after i graduated, really solidified it for me. Knowing spanish has come in handy on the job, but my actual reason for learning it was the immersion. I guess from what eunice said, an Ni-type might be more like "I'm gonna need to know spanish for this job, i better learn it."

Later I was fascinated my indian culture, so I started learning Hindi so I could understand the indian movies better and the cultural nuances therein. I was also trying to learn to cook indian food, so i needed to know words in some of the recipes (because only authentic recipes would suffice!). I was much much too busy to learn the language in depth at the time, so i never really learned it to a conversational level unfortunately. And the interest has sort of passed by now. Maybe it will come back--i still have the books i bought to help me! It doesn't help the the alphabet is not the roman alphabet (that is always harder for me to pick up). So I will need to be illiterate and just learn it by ear.

[eunice]

I really, really like how you fleshed out and differentiated the two, 'cause I never would've made or even noticed the distinction.

Like you and WA, the Ne-Immersion thing is pretty irrestisible to me. I'm also drawn to certain places more than others (Japan, China, the UK -- do they count?), but being "technologically developed enough to support a pop culture" seems to be a pretty consistent factor. The desire to understand (as best I can) a culture and relate to (as best I can) a group of people is just unquenchable. Dumb as it sounds, it's almost a Pokemon-ish "Gotta Catch 'Em All" kinda hunger: there's not a place on earth I don't want to be, and there's not a person on earth I don't want to be friends with. Learning about everything and everyone I'm not might just make that a tiny bit easier.

Ni-wise, the goal-pursuit (i.e. language learning) is rough. I acquire other languages with little effort, but little effort's a little more than I've got. I really admire someone who's got the discipline to put up with daily study.

When you type people of another culture (like in your Work In Progress thread, for instance), are you generally fluent in the languages of those you type, or do you assess people outside the context of speech/words/etc.? (FWIW, I hugely depend on the latter, and thus probably screw up 99% of the time.)


If that's the case, ...ain't nobody Fe.

Wow....We seem rather similar.....

I am fluent in Mandarin, but am still learning Korean. As such, when assessing people who are outside my culture and whose language I don't really understand, I tend to focus more on their physical appearance, body language, the gaze of their eyes, content of their speech (from English subtitles), their work of art (e.g. music, novel, poems) etc.

[Aiss]

Not that I have an opinion on the level of Ne's involvement in getting to know another culture or anything, but defining one element, type or quadra by what the other is not is rarely a good idea. In fact, it's usually a very bad idea, leading to projections with little to no accuracy. And working with this leads to even worse conclusions.

Ni-wise, the goal-pursuit (i.e. language learning) is rough. I acquire other languages with little effort, but little effort's a little more than I've got. I really admire someone who's got the discipline to put up with daily study.

So you admire typical xSEs? That bodes well for your typing as xII.

[717495]

Looks δ-NF, likely INFj.

Yeah... I can see the similarity between the both of us.

PS. Stop using cool quadra symbols all the time.

[717495]

Consulted Reinin, Russia, Rick, and everything in between, but still stuck on /.
Very, very grateful for help, questions, advice, VI, or whatever you got.

Have you tried reading the Jung archetypes? I'm in your boat too, I have a kind of hard time with and , though I think reading the Jung archetypes helped me out--and it takes some time to get to know yourself.

[Suz]

Looks δ-NF, likely INFj.

Mkay, i think i can get my diploma from the Ashton School of Socionics now.

[Suz]

Yeah... I can see the similarity between the both of us.

PS. Stop using cool quadra symbols all the time.

It's just a greek letter!! No need to panic.

[717495]

This thread could use less sarcasm lol!