LSI-SLE Mirror relations (ISTj and ESTp)

[discojoe]

It's interesting, the difference between mirrors. SLEs are very impulsive, yet they wade through their impulsiveness within improvisational logical frameworks. This tends to lend them short term success, because their recklessness is tempered by what I would call acceptable reason, a kind of disposable set of rules and justifications that aids them in the imposition of their Se agenda. I envy them this ability, but I think they often (not always) pay for this in the long run by not considering the social ramifications of their behavior. They start making enemies and eventually something career-ending or job-ending happens to them and they and their family are left disgraced. To the SLE, power and prestige, to varying degrees, of course, are themselves the goal, and the implementation, the Ti, is merely the tool.

LSIs are much more subdued and socially proper in their approach. They tend not to actively push social boundaries the way that SLEs do. Instead, they pursue the implementation/maintenance of their subjective, systematic concept of reality, then rigidly yet gradually impose this framework onto society. The gradual nature of this approach means that LSIs are less likely than SLEs to attain short term "victories," which SLEs flaunt flamboyantly in an effort to win over the opposite sex. However, I think the gradual, socially conscientious approach to goal implementation by the LSI means that they will often (not always) more reliably acquire power, albeit at the expense of short term gains. For instance, people will laugh at the LSI at first, for being too boring, too traditional in their approach. But ten, twenty, thirty years later, the LSI, seemingly out of nowhere is the one who has the power. The LSI's downfall is that they will often act impulsively and recklessly when they perceive an opportunity to acquire power (and thus the ability to further implement their world view). For instance, an LSI may stage a coup and then be killed himself when one of his allies unexpectedly betrays him.

I know this is all Socionics 101, but I felt like writing about it.

[discojoe]

Ahh, just realized the topic title is misleading. It should instead say "SLE/LSI differences" or something.

[strrrng]

very accurate

[Beautiful sky]

very accurate

Accuracy is concern with Te, how can you say that and be "Te PoLR"?

[jughead]

The downfall of LSI you wrote sounds like the strength of SLE and LSI fails when they start acting SLE.
Perhaps some Se-LSI but generally
No
The downfall is when they miss free oppurtunites (Ne) outside the rules that they follow to achieve power and thus get left behind suddenly, especially when chaotic events happen.

[discojoe]

The downfall is when they miss free oppurtunites (Ne) outside the rules that they follow to achieve power and thus get left behind suddenly, especially when chaotic events happen.

Actually, that's just another way of looking at what I said about the LSI's downfall. Just as the LSI will act without considering the consequences, he will also not act in situations in which he fails to consider the consequences of his inertia. It's the two sides of the Ne PoLR (at least when it comes to action).

[discojoe]

The dynamic between my SLE friend and I is exactly the same as between Kirk and Spock. The chemistry and friction. It's hilarious. I'll post some stuff later.

[Absurd]

The dynamic between my SLE friend and I is exactly the same as between Kirk and Spock. The chemistry and friction. It's hilarious. I'll post some stuff later.

Post a vid of you and him making out in bed covered with red rose petals.

[discojoe]

Some Beta people, please read all of this and tell me if it sounds like mirrors.



SLE: are there more sexier words that can be murmured from a woman none other than "i want you to cum inside of me?"
discojoe: Yes
discojoe: "stop"
SLE:

discojoe: Well you made the lolz mistake of getting engaged.
discojoe: Worst thing I ever did
discojoe: I'm technically married still
SLE: i lol at the social structure of relationships, as well as people's views on them
SLE: i feel like i just make up my own interpretation of everything, and this satisfies me
discojoe: Whatever engulfs your cock in vagina fluid
SLE: male biological clock?
SLE: i think so
SLE: or chemically imbalanced id?
discojoe: Id? Depends on how far you let loose.
discojoe: We should kill Kelly's boyfriend and turn it into a murder mystery for her to try to solve. All the evidence will point to her and she'll turn herself in.
SLE: she would believe it


discojoe: Ok, tell him all this shit
discojoe: And if he keeps it up
discojoe: Stop talking to him
SLE: in his recent trend of things, he started accusing me of potentially being uh......
discojoe: No need to expose yourself to a negative influence
SLE: hold on
SLE: stop talking
discojoe: k
SLE: i need to fully explain this
SLE: and im getting super tired so its getting harder to
SLE: cause i want to respond but cant
SLE: anyway
SLE: he was accusing me of being ....
SLE: i cant think of the fucking term atm
SLE: its when you have 2 personalities, and people think you are psychotic
SLE: but its not uncommon
discojoe: >_> Finished?
SLE: no, i need your help
SLE: trying to remember this
SLE: not schizo, but
SLE: uh
discojoe: dissociative or w/e
discojoe: Where you go into a dissociative state and kill people etc
SLE: no not that
SLE: im asking *name removed*
SLE: cause i told her about it back then
SLE: WHY CANT I FUCKING REMEMBER THIS FUCKING SHIT
SLE: FUCK
SLE: IM FUCKING TIRED


SLE: oh btw, id like to make a note of how useless the psychologist was here....
discojoe: Go ahead
SLE: i went in to talk with him about it, and he went on a 45 minute tangent about how he thinks that donald trump is going to be the next president
SLE: the end
discojoe: lmao



Here's the important bit. Note how surprised he is to encounter someone else with articulated Beta values.


SLE: i honestly believe i am a polygamist
SLE: i have seriously considered being in love with more than one woman at a time
discojoe: There's nothing inherently wrong with any of this
discojoe: The only thing that would be unethical
discojoe: Is if you did something that you felt wasn't worth the price you'd pay.
discojoe: Don't go against your value
SLE: but dude
SLE: i HATE the common view people have on morality (or as you're calling them "ethics") in this case
SLE: and im talking in terms of relationships
discojoe: I know
discojoe: What I am saying
discojoe: Is that you have a vested interest in your own happiness
discojoe: And that you need to make sure you aren't compromising it by doing something based solely on temptation
discojoe: If your fiance makes you happy, then don't compromise it by engaging in inappropriate behavior with someone who endangers your higher valued person.
discojoe: Think of these moral dilemmas as transactions
SLE: this is something that i cannot agree on, but yet i respect
SLE: maybe its just me
SLE: and this is exactly what a lot of people do not understand about me
SLE: but then again, its not like ive tried to explain it to a ton of people either
discojoe: Will you be happy cheating on your fiance?
SLE: to me, there is literally no such terminology as cheating
SLE: there is a social accepted standard of cheating
discojoe: Ok, then will you be happy sleeping with this girl while being in a relationship with your fiance?
SLE: i would see no problem in it at all
discojoe: But would it make you happy? Think about it carefully.
SLE: (for my own vested interest)
SLE: it would make me happy because i enjoy the rush of getting to know someone, also too i genuinely care for this girl
discojoe: If sleeping with her would result in a net increase in your happiness, then do it.
discojoe: If this is the way you are, then it would be unethical to deprive yourself of what makes you happy.
SLE: but heres the conflict:
SLE: i do know that if my fiance found out about ANY of this, she'd be hurt beyond belief
SLE: and in that regard in and of itself, i'd try to prevent that to the best of my ability, out of my love for her
SLE: i dont want to hurt her
discojoe: Ok, this is what I am getting at
discojoe: Is sleeping with this girl going to make you NET happier. Meaning, will the happiness you get from sleeping with her make up for the grief of hurting your fiance.
discojoe: Of potentially hurting her, rather
SLE: in this scenario, are you suggesting that my fiance would infact know about the roommate situation?
discojoe: No, but it depends on the odds.
discojoe: If the odds are more than 10%, I don't think you'd be happy risking it.
SLE: to me, it depends on how much of a loose cannon my roommate is
SLE: and my roommate has an active sexual relationship right now with a married man, and she keeps her mouth shut about it
discojoe: Um, then don't do it.
SLE: nono
SLE: what im saying is, she ISNT
SLE: if she was a loose cannon, then fuck no
discojoe: Ohh
discojoe: Fine, then do it if you think you can keep it a secret
SLE: so what im getting at is that i have vested trust in her
discojoe: But remember the pain if your fiance finds out. Let that motivate you into being hyper-precautious
SLE: exactly
SLE: actually you know waht, this is fucking fantastic
SLE: this is the first time that anyone has actually CLEARLY fucking understood how i stand on this situation
discojoe: Well I'm special.
discojoe: So go ahead, but remember to buckle up, as it were.


discojoe: I guarantee you can basically have her if
discojoe: First, you start approaching the situation from a "You're mine and I won't stop" perspective.
SLE: i like this idea, however i already feel like she will resist that from my "prior engagement" (literally)
discojoe: Ohhh
discojoe: Yeah break up with your fiance
SLE: uh
discojoe: Yeah, bold words huh
SLE: this is the first time the thought has crossed my mind
SLE: at the moment, im having a mental strife because i truthfully believe you, but by the same token its making me dislike this feeling (and dislike you)
SLE: its not actually personal
SLE: its just that ive been in a state of comfort
SLE: and you're breaking me freee from my comfrort
SLE: and from what kelly has told me about this socionics stuff
SLE: im a creature of habbit and comfort
discojoe: LOL
discojoe: Hahaha
discojoe: No
discojoe: Not at all
SLE: oh?
discojoe: No, you are a creature of ambition and will
discojoe: You have an underlying grimness
discojoe: Results first
discojoe: Judge based on results, actions
SLE: precisely the way how i run my life
discojoe: Yep, see? Kelly is retarded.


SLE: i think..... tuesday night
SLE: will be renamed to revolution night
discojoe: I believe so
discojoe: And the erection night
SLE: no dude
SLE: that was last night and this morning
SLE: holy, fucking shit
SLE: 7 hours of sex
SLE: i have never done that in my life
SLE: apparently neither has she
discojoe: I'm going to kill you
SLE: i actually believe you would do that
discojoe: Oh, I'm like 40% sociopath.

[Quaris]

I just love reading these. What a great guy you are dj. Seriously, keep it up.

[jessica129]

I get the feeling that half of the people who say there's nothing wrong with cheating would be ruined if their significant other did it to them. Did he do it?

[redbaron]

funny, I understand all of that... hm. you're totally right tho about net happiness, etc. he needs to think that through.

[force my hand]

This is an interesting statement:

SLE: this is the first time that anyone has actually CLEARLY fucking understood how i stand on this situation

It's not that people don't understand (not exactly a hard concept), it's that they disagree with the rationalization.

[jessica129]

It's not that people don't understand (not exactly a hard concept), it's that they disagree with the rationalization.

Yeah, lol

[golden]

This is Beta values? I can't really hop on board with it. Not to say I've been morally perfect, but eh.

From the perspective of having an SLE boyfriend who's over 40 now? He has done some of this shit, and now he's looking at the last 20 years and realizing, "Hurr, I fucked everything up. I fucked up my relationships, and I failed to build a life. I didn't grow up, and time has passed me by." He said to me today, "Sure, I've done some cool things, but I've been on vacation all my adult life, and now I'm a failure."

I would say that the vulnerability that comes with approaching/reaching middle age has an upside, though. It can pave the way toward intimacy. I'd say I'm experiencing true intimacy for the first time in a relationship. It's kinda cool.

[discojoe]

I get the feeling that half of the people who say there's nothing wrong with cheating would be ruined if their significant other did it to them. Did he do it?

Yes. And I need to point something out here. His fiance is a neurotic, subservient EII who will do anything to be in a secure relationship and has compromised her personality dramatically in order for him to stay with her.

Now, this new girl, on the other hand, is IEI. And I was paranoid about making the type. I asked him countless questions, looked at several photos.

All they do is hang out with each other and snuggle and et cetera. He asked her if she wanted to room with him next semester, and she goes "Yeah! I'd love to live with you again!" And when she gets home she goes around opening all the doors looking for him right away.

The bottom line is that they're already in love and he should follow my advice.

funny, I understand all of that... hm. you're totally right tho about net happiness, etc. he needs to think that through.

I thought it through for him.

This is an interesting statement:

It's not that people don't understand (not exactly a hard concept), it's that they disagree with the rationalization.

They disagree with people choosing to be happy?

This is Beta values? I can't really hop on board with it. Not to say I've been morally perfect, but eh.

From the perspective of having an SLE boyfriend who's over 40 now? He has done some of this shit, and now he's looking at the last 20 years and realizing, "Hurr, I fucked everything up. I fucked up my relationships, and I failed to build a life. I didn't grow up, and time has passed me by." He said to me today, "Sure, I've done some cool things, but I've been on vacation all my adult life, and now I'm a failure."

I would say that the vulnerability that comes with approaching/reaching middle age has an upside, though. It can pave the way toward intimacy. I'd say I'm experiencing true intimacy for the first time in a relationship. It's kinda cool.

Well you can't instill life wisdom in someone just because you think it should be there. The best decision he can make is to choose to be with his young, hot, intelligent, already devoted dual. He'd be a fucking fool to pass it up, and marrying his fiance would be the worst mistake of his life.

[Kim]

He'd be a fucking fool to pass it up, and marrying his fiance would be the worst mistake of his life.

Why can't he just break up with the EII and start a relationship with the IEI?

[discojoe]

Why can't he just break up with the EII and start a relationship with the IEI?

Because he's an idiot SLE who doesn't think that way.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Why can't he just break up with the EII and start a relationship with the IEI?

My thoughts as well.

[discojoe]

Projecting Delta values at him won't lead to anything good, so there's no reason to do it.

[rat1]

Tell that dumbass you can't hold together a relationship if it fundamentally sucks. It will inevitably fall apart and then he'll have passed up a good relationship in the process. The longer you wait, the worse it is when you actually break it off. It's the noble thing to do to break it off.

[blackburry]

Projecting Delta values at him won't lead to anything good, so there's no reason to do it.

LOL..since when is that delta values?

the guy sounds unhealthy and dumb as shit. who doesn't alteast consider that??????

not type related.

[discojoe]

Tell that dumbass you can't hold together a relationship if it fundamentally sucks. It will inevitably fall apart and then he'll have passed up a good relationship in the process. The longer you wait, the worse it is when you actually break it off. It's the noble thing to do to break it off.

Yeah, that's basically what I said. He was utterly enthralled to hear someone say these things and not throat rape him with Fi razor blades.

[discojoe]

LOL..since when is that delta values?

the guy sounds unhealthy and dumb as shit. who doesn't alteast consider that??????

not type related.

Your tone is annoying. Ignored indefinitely.

[Simon Ssmall]

Which Beta values make him unable to do it? Its the healthiest way for any type.

[Kim]

Tell that dumbass you can't hold together a relationship if it fundamentally sucks. It will inevitably fall apart and then he'll have passed up a good relationship in the process. The longer you wait, the worse it is when you actually break it off. It's the noble thing to do to break it off.

Noble because it protects the fiancee from even worse heartache in the future?

[discojoe]

Which Beta values make him unable to do it? Its the healthiest way for any type.

It's not Beta values, it's Fi machine gun fire that has caused him to repress his instincts to the point that they manifest in worse ways than they would have if he had been able to grow and nurture his personality. Hearing me say these things was like drinking ice cold gatorade through Megan Fox's tits after walking three days in the desert without water.

The thing with Fi types is that they don't realize that their moralizing attacks often end up making things worse by shaming the target into repressing his emotions. The kind of shit that breeds serial killers.

[force my hand]

They disagree with people choosing to be happy?

No, you clearly do not understand the point made.

What people will disagree with varies, but potentially involves (and is certainly not restricted to) any of the following:

-The assumption that infidelity will always result in greater happiness, despite the wealth of evidence indicating the exact opposite.
-That personal happiness exceeds social and familial responsibility
-More generally, that Randian ethics trump established ethical systems and norms
-That using mental/ethical gymnastics to cover a lack of moral character is admirable or authentic

[discojoe]

No, you clearly do not understand the point made.

What people will disagree with varies, but potentially involves (and is certainly not restricted to) any of the following:

-The assumption that infidelity will always result in greater happiness, despite the wealth of evidence indicating the exact opposite.
-That personal happiness exceeds social and familial responsibility
-More generally, that Randian ethics trump established ethical systems and norms
-That using mental/ethical gymnastics to cover a lack of moral character is admirable or authentic

Ok, have fun with your evil moral structure that lacks any semblance of rationality.

(Oh, and I did understand the point made. You obviously don't understand underhanded comments.)

[force my hand]

Ok, have fun with your evil moral structure that lacks any semblance of rationality.

(Oh, and I did understand the point made. You obviously don't understand underhanded comments.)

The best way to deal with trolling is to pretend not to notice.

I'll take the response to mean you have no idea how to counter my previous argument. Can't rely on some libertard propaganda to bail you out this time, unfortunately.

[discojoe]

The best way to deal with trolling is to pretend not to notice.

I'll take the response to mean you have no idea how to counter my previous argument.

Lol @ your Fe PoLR

Can't rely on some libertard propaganda to bail you out this time, unfortunately.

Of course not. I don't rely on propaganda but on clearly defined premises and crystal clear perspective. I'd be happy to debate any of this with you in another topic.

[blackburry]

boo-hoo. could care less.


i think it's sad when someone such as yourself makes excuses for their own and others behaviors and base it all on socionics, rather than stupidity, age, or lack of life experience.

[force my hand]

Of course not. I don't rely on propaganda but on clearly defined premises and crystal clear perspective. I'd be happy to debate any of this with you in another topic.

No, discojoe, you don't generate original content - you're more of an aggregator. It would be like arguing with a less comphrehensive Google, you know? My post would be like a search query, and your reply would be the endless list of semi-relevant hits, with each cycle leading to increased redundancy until you start returning 4chan pictures.

If you want to debate, then start with my posts in this thread. I can reword them or expand the ideas if they are too confusing (like you've claimed before).

[rat1]

Cheating is a natural process. It breaks up relationships that suck, and then new ones replace them. There's actually nothing wrong with it until marriage is involved. But that's just because the whole legal issues surrounding that. So as long as he isnt married.. cheating is fine.

-The assumption that infidelity will always result in greater happiness, despite the wealth of evidence indicating the exact opposite.

Which is why he should break up with this fiance, and then hook up with the IEI girl. Or he can cheat on her and have the same outcome. Just as long as he doesnt marry her.

-That personal happiness exceeds social and familial responsibility

Yeah, because holding together a dead relationship for years for purely obligatory reasons is a great way to raise a family of socially functional kids. And I'm sure it's in the womans best interest to trap her in that same nihilistic relationship via marriage.

-More generally, that Randian ethics trump established ethical systems and norms

Yes, genuine love can be dismissed since it's a non issue. It's all about your random ass guidelines & social ideals. And we can all agree on the same social norms.

-That using mental/ethical gymnastics to cover a lack of moral character is admirable or authentic

You really think your personal morals are universal standards. Lmao

[discojoe]

No, discojoe, you don't generate original content - you're more of an aggregator. It would be like arguing with a less comphrehensive Google, you know? My post would be like a search query, and your reply would be the endless list of semi-relevant hits, with each cycle leading to increased redundancy until you start returning 4chan pictures.

Zzzzz

Like, your words are just... I don't know... Boring. Like you're not really in sync with what's actually going on around you. It's like, eh, you just say things that aren't important or that don't really mean anything. You just sort of exist without any point.

And what's with the comment about the originality of my content? When did I ever say I drew from a well of my own creations? Less comprehensive google? Where did that come from? What point were you trying to make, and what do you think it has to do with anything I care about in the least?

God, fucking awkward.

[discojoe]

Fi basically amounts to a survival book of things not to do if you want people to include you in society. You can safely ignore it unless there is some strategic disadvantage.

[force my hand]

Which is why he should break up with this fiance who he doesn't love, and then hook up with the IEI girl. No infidelity, and even greater happiness for him.

I agree that if someone does not love their fiance, that's probably a reasonable course of action.

Yeah, because holding together a dead relationship for years for purely obligatory reasons is a great way to raise a family of socially functional kids. And I'm sure it's in the womans best interest to trap her in that same nihilistic relationship via marriage.

In this case it may not be reasonable, but I'm speaking generally with respect to the Randian ideal of increased net happiness. There are cases where doing what you want and ignoring your social responsibilities results in a net decrease of happiness; something which is certainly in conflict with the specific moral described in the OP.

Actually, to be fair to discojoe, he basically states that himself.

Yes, genuine caring and love can be dismissed since it's a non issue. It's all about your random ass guidelines & social ideals. And we can all agree on the same social norms.

There are powerful religious, cultural, and even evolutionary systems that dictate moral behaviour. Whether they are wrong/right, or valid/invalid is largely irrelevant; they exist, and are not supplanted by objectivism.

You really think your personal morals are universal standards. Lmao

Not in the least. This list, at some level, will reflect my moral character, but to assume I hold to each ideal in all cases is absurd and comical. Such a reaction does not indicate very serious thought on your part.

[force my hand]

Zzzzz

Like, your words are just... I don't know... Boring. Like you're not really in sync with what's actually going on around you. It's like, eh, you just say things that aren't important or that don't really mean anything. You just sort of exist without any point.

And what's with the comment about the originality of my content? When did I ever say I drew from a well of my own creations? Less comprehensive google? Where did that come from? What point were you trying to make, and what do you think it has to do with anything I care about in the least?

God, fucking awkward.

I really can't think of a better way to describe your own posts:

-Boring? Check.
-Out of touch with reality? Check.
-Irrelevant? Check.
-Meaningless? Check.

[Absurd]

I sooo love his posts, oh my, oh my.

[ashlesha]

force my hand