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Thread: Alphas for Monarchy

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    Default Alphas for Monarchy

    I got to thinking. Why is it always betas and deltas in power... cause they can convince people to vote for them. In a monarchy, the monarch is a genetic random. So, we might as well go with a system of government that puts alphas in power 1/4 of the time. That's real quadra democracy. Down with the EIE's and LSE's.

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    How much will I get paid working for Alphas. Incognito, of course.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Why is it always betas and deltas in power..
    Is there even any basis for this claim whatsoever?

    Ben Bernanke: INTj chairman of the USA federal reserve; one of the most powerful men currently on earth
    Alan Greenspan: his predecessor, ENTp
    Bill Clinton: ex-president of the USA, often typed as ESFj
    Job Cohen: INTj chairman of the Dutch labor party (currently 2nd largest party by 1 seat difference) and ex-major of Amsterdam
    Elio di Rupo: some Alpha extrovert, probably ENTp, chairman of largest political party in Belguim

    to name just a few that I could recall off the top of my head...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton is EIE as fuck.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Bill Clinton is EIE as fuck.
    Maybe. I don't really see the drama and volatility, though. He seems kind of stable which is not how I would describe most ENFjs (note: no value judgment made here).

    On an unrelated note:



    Wouldn't be surprised if that's an INTj too.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shindaiwa21 View Post
    Why is it always betas and deltas in power...
    Because it's not true.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    As a patriotic Canadian, I am a strong supporter of the monarchy. When politics breaks down, it's good to have a backup.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    High Priestess glam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Because it's not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    As a patriotic Canadian, I am a strong supporter of the monarchy. When politics breaks down, it's good to have a backup.
    As a patriotic Canadienne, I am not a supporter of the monarchy. The queen is an entirely arbitrary Head of State and the governor general acts as more puppet than actual back-up.
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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    Well to say it simply alpha quadra doesn't have a type which is able to control/affect masses and at the same time would be ambitious enough to want to be a leader.
    Beta has SLE and EIE
    Gamma has SEE and LIE
    Delta has LSE
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    Well to say it simply alpha quadra doesn't have a type which is able to control/affect masses and at the same time would be ambitious enough to want to be a leader.
    Perhaps not a single type, but I'm sure either dyad would be quite capable of doing the above if acting in unison. That certainly seems to be the case with Isha encouraging me to form my own guild.

    Though admittedly we're not exactly "masses", and I'm keeping the scale of the guild small.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Well to say it simply alpha quadra doesn't have a type which is able to control/affect masses and at the same time would be ambitious enough to want to be a leader.
    Beta has SLE and EIE
    Gamma has SEE and LIE
    Delta has LSE
    Alpha has LII, ILE and ESE, as displayed above.

    Also its not like each of the types you listed doesn't have its own set of problems where rising to- and maintaining leadership is concerned.

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    I am fundamentally opposed to the values and opinions expressed in this thread. The only way I could ever consider this system of government a moral endeavor, would be if it were founded as a completely voluntary institution. That is, no one is forced to participate or subjugate themselves to your government. However, I would contend that an "opt-in" government would probably never become anything more than a mere fantasy.

    The only righteous form of government is self-government. Note that I am reluctant to call this a system of governance, since a system implies some sort of organizational hierarchy in the context of an institution -- be it a committee, parliament, senate, or what have you -- that we've come to recognize as government. Self-government requires no bureaucracy, it requires no leaders or public officials. Everyone is their own head-of-state, so to speak. The sovereignty of the individual is the supreme law of the land. We are each our own tyrant.

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Alpha has LII, ILE and ESE, as displayed above.

    Also its not like each of the types you listed doesn't have its own set of problems where rising to- and maintaining leadership is concerned.
    Perhaps I will need to translate an article where I got this knowledge from. It will take me a long time tho.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    As a patriotic Canadienne, I am not a supporter of the monarchy. The queen is an entirely arbitrary Head of State and the governor general acts as more puppet than actual back-up.
    Well yeah, because this is peacetime. But should some Hitler-wannabe manage to get himself elected, the Queen could choose to dissolve Parliament and order the military to remove the guy from office. It's not a small matter that our military swears loyalty to the Queen, not the Prime Minister. Of course, there's any number of ways that situation could play out, depending on whom the people supported, but that's at least an option.

    There's this idea in the modern world, propagated by the Americans, that Democracy is an inherently better system than Monarchy. But in reality, there's only one question that matters: are the people running my country good, honourable, and willing to do the right thing? Or are they corrupt, dishonourable, and serving their own interests? Democracy attempts to achieve that by relying on the good sense of "the masses" to elect good leaders. Monarchy attempts to achieve that by having the leader of the country immune from politics, in the same way judges are.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    irrespective of whether the claim is true, which alpha type can be bothered to go through the trouble of actually acquiring leadership and power? i think LIIs can do it, and keep it too - maybe not as the visible leader himself but at least a position of considerable power - when sufficiently motivated, but how many would be sufficiently motivated? often the job's not worth having, the people not worth leading.

    despite its title, the job doesn't actually endow you with complete control to chart the course - there is inevitably other people you have to get on board to actually get things done, whose tedious motivations and interests you have to deal with. what exactly can such a position offer that an alpha would value? wealth? social standing and recognition? people want to visit you and profess to like you? these are things i am either indifferent to or consider the opposite of perks.

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    The kind who, though not always but often enough, succeeds in politics is often the corruptable, egotistical, self-whoring type of person you don't want anywhere near power. That's the best argument for having a monarchy or despotism IMO. Not without caveats, however --as the one most important rule should be that the monarch not be corruptable, egotistical or self-whoring.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    The kind who, though not always but often enough, succeeds in politics is often the corruptable, egotistical, self-whoring type of person you don't want anywhere near power. That's the best argument for having a monarchy or despotism IMO. Not without caveats, however --as the one most important rule should be that the monarch not be corruptable, egotistical or self-whoring.
    Robespierre during his time was nicknamed "The Incorruptible". Also, despite the "corruption" in the Ethiopian government under Selassie, I recall reading that it's debatable that quality of life in Ethiopia was really all that bad.

    IOW, "incorruptibility" is not necessarily a virtue, as it can lead to detachment from reality.

    Though I think you were using "corruptibility" differently there?

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    The kind who, though not always but often enough, succeeds in politics is often the corruptable, egotistical, self-whoring type of person you don't want anywhere near power. That's the best argument for having a monarchy or despotism IMO.
    Really? I consider it the best argument for having no institutionalized government whatsoever.

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    Alpha: Sociocracy
    Beta: Dictatorship
    Gamma: Capitalism
    Delta: Republic

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-quadras.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Alpha: Sociocracy
    Beta: Dictatorship
    Gamma: Capitalism
    Delta: Republic

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-quadras.html
    what is a sociocracy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    Really? I consider it the best argument for having no institutionalized government whatsoever.
    Anarchy? I there's no system in place to prevent an institutionalized government, then one will form spontaneously, essentially through ever-expanding gangs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    what is a sociocracy?
    What Wikipedia is - you talk about it until everyone seems to agree, then do that.



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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Anarchy?
    I prefer to call it autarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I there's no system in place to prevent an institutionalized government, then one will form spontaneously, essentially through ever-expanding gangs.
    No, it won't, but thanks for agreeing that governments are founded on coercion and the subjugation of individual freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    No, it won't, but thanks for agreeing that governments are founded on coercion and the subjugation of individual freedom.
    Well yes, we agree on that point, but I think that individual freedom itself brings about coercion. That is, it would involve the freedom to coerce others, an a lone self-ruler can't very well stand up to a group - unless they have a group of their own, and, well, hello organized government...

    I can think of one alternative to government, that is, social pressure, but I don't see that as much different actually.



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    Quote Originally Posted by shindaiwa21 View Post
    I got to thinking. Why is it always betas and deltas in power... cause they can convince people to vote for them.
    This of course assumes that elected politicians actually wield power. In truth, power in democracies is wielded by heads of industry and other elite interests politicians are beholden to, most of whom are Beta ST or Gamma NT.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

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