LSI/ISTj compared to other Beta types: the nice beta

[discojoe]

SLE: Too brash and asshole-ish all the time. Almost complete disregard for other people's feelings. Their friendliness is a ruse to get you in bed.

IEI: Cute and dainty, but prone to madness and dark obsessions. Their detachment from reality means they are easily lured by the siren call of the SLE.

EIE: Insane.

LSI: Clear-headed, conscientious, rational, friendly, reasonable, and trustworthy. Somewhat narrow-minded and paranoid, but that merely makes them sexy and mysterious, so it's actually a strength.


There is no bias in any of this.

[DirectorAbbie]

There is no bias in any of this.

But of course.

[Creepy-male]

None at all

[sarinana]

SLE- Amazing people to have fun with! Humor is priceless! Can come off as rude.
IEI - Lovable human beings that are able to cheer up everybody around. Don't know how to fight for themselves, yet can be sneaky when has any goals.
LSI - Calm, sexy, protective and respectful. Compared to SLEs it's hard to read and understand them since they are so into themselves, yet this makes them even more interesting friends and partners.
EIE - Can make everybody around feel like a God as long as they like you, however have very great capatibilities to treat people like shit.

[Khamelion]

rofl

i especially like the sirens call of the SLE part ;P

[Airman]

totally agree w/ your definitions, Discojoe.

[Gilly]

SLEs are pretty brash, but IME most of them are actually reasonably nice. Bad stereotype.

[Gilly]

This is actually largely true, though I must say that EIEs are a mixed bag.

[Crispy]

I'd rather hang with a beta rational > irrational any day.

[redbaron]

I'd rather hang with a beta rational > irrational any day.

[Airman]

I'd rather hang with a beta rational > irrational any day.

Me too but I think that´s because Rationals can understand each other better, also Irrationals. Because I´m a Rational, I prefer Rationals.

[Crispy]

IME beta irrationals expect me to use Se all the time :frown:

[Creepy-male]

SLE: Too brash and asshole-ish all the time. Almost complete disregard for other people's feelings. Their friendliness is a ruse to get you in bed.

IEI: Cute and dainty, but prone to madness and dark obsessions. Their detachment from reality means they are easily lured by the siren call of the SLE.

EIE: Insane.

LSI: Clear-headed, conscientious, rational, friendly, reasonable, and trustworthy. Somewhat narrow-minded and paranoid, but that merely makes them sexy and mysterious, so it's actually a strength.


There is no bias in any of this.

Typical Benchmark
-----------------------------------------------------------------

----- POSITIVES/STRENGTHS -- NEGATIVES/WEAKNESS --

LSI - Stable, Rational, Conscientious -- Sees systems before people

Character Conflict: Knowing how to preserve their positive qualities (stable, rational, conscientiousness) while not falling into the trap of dehumanizing people through systemization as per the demands of "reality".





SLE - Brash, Assertive, Bold, Realist -- Overfocuses on present reality

Character Conflict: Knowing how to preserve their positive qualities (....) without getting tunnel vision to the bigger picture and focusing on short term self-gratifying goals.








IEI - Deep insight, Artistic, Empathic -- Detached, Fanciful, Self-Absorbed

Character Conflict: Knowing how to preserve their deep insight into their emotional truth and manage it in their life without being self-absorbed and negligent to reality.








EIE - Outgoing/Expressive/Dramatic/Shrewd -- Dramatic, Arrogant, Self-Absorbed

Character Conflict: Knowing how to express their message powerfully without coming off as haughty, arrogant, and dramatic because they take themselves too seriously and are overtly dramatic. Their dramatic expressions can cause the emotionality of a group of people to swell and get out of hand like a wildfire if they are not shrewd in their expressions and can laugh at themselves.








Really duality makes sense when you consider this.... The dramatic expressivity of the EIE clashes against the LSI's calmness. The LSI feels like they've found someone that imbues their life with meaning and the EIE feels like they've found someone who is calm and rational that will hear them out.

The IEI's are just everybit as dramatic as the EIE but their temperament makes this disposition calmer and beneath the surface, they are more the melancholy, detached, in their head type... where as the EIE is this type expressing itself outwardly to people.

The SLE is the same as the LSI but once again the LSI is the introverted withdrawn version of the SLE. The SLE acts quickly and hold themselves with confidence as they ride the waves of reality, whereas the LSI is more cautious taking time to make a critical decision and then acting with confidence.

So essentially the nature of the attraction between LSI-EIE is very similar to IEI-SLE, except we are switching around the introversion/extroversion between the NF and the ST. The beta NF is still absorbed/dramatic, however this disposition is turned inward, while the ST is now the one acting out. Essentially the SLE finds some purpose/meaning in the IEI's artistic/melancholy/insight, while the IEI find some experience/adventure in the SLE's bold/arrogant/assertive ways. The IEI gets to leave their inner world and have a real experience, the SLE gets to relax away from negotiating reality and consider more deep/artistic things.

[Creepy-male]

There is no bias in any of this.

That's one of two valid perspectives, the other is that everything you say is full of complete bias. To people who don't understand things, it seems like a complete contradiction, but its really not =). And there is no bias in what I said.

[sarinana]

Typical Benchmark
-----------------------------------------------------------------

----- POSITIVES/STRENGTHS -- NEGATIVES/WEAKNESS --

LSI - Stable, Rational, Conscientious -- Sees systems before people

Character Conflict: Knowing how to preserve their positive qualities (stable, rational, conscientiousness) while not falling into the trap of dehumanizing people through systemization as per the demands of "reality".





SLE - Brash, Assertive, Bold, Realist -- Overfocuses on present reality

Character Conflict: Knowing how to preserve their positive qualities (....) without getting tunnel vision to the bigger picture and focusing on short term self-gratifying goals.








IEI - Deep insight, Artistic, Empathic -- Detached, Fanciful, Self-Absorbed

Character Conflict: Knowing how to preserve their deep insight into their emotional truth and manage it in their life without being self-absorbed and negligent to reality.








EIE - Outgoing/Expressive/Dramatic/Shrewd -- Dramatic, Arrogant, Self-Absorbed

Character Conflict: Knowing how to express their message powerfully without coming off as haughty, arrogant, and dramatic because they take themselves too seriously and are overtly dramatic. Their dramatic expressions can cause the emotionality of a group of people to swell and get out of hand like a wildfire if they are not shrewd in their expressions and can laugh at themselves.









Really duality makes sense when you consider this.... The dramatic expressivity of the EIE clashes against the LSI's calmness. The LSI feels like they've found someone that imbues their life with meaning and the EIE feels like they've found someone who is calm and rational that will hear them out.

The IEI's are just everybit as dramatic as the EIE but their temperament makes this disposition calmer and beneath the surface, they are more the melancholy, detached, in their head type... where as the EIE is this type expressing itself outwardly to people.

The SLE is the same as the LSI but once again the LSI is the introverted withdrawn version of the SLE. The SLE acts quickly and hold themselves with confidence as they ride the waves of reality, whereas the LSI is more cautious taking time to make a critical decision and then acting with confidence.

So essentially the nature of the attraction between LSI-EIE is very similar to IEI-SLE, except we are switching around the introversion/extroversion between the NF and the ST. The beta NF is still absorbed/dramatic, however this disposition is turned inward, while the ST is now the one acting out. Essentially the SLE finds some purpose/meaning in the IEI's artistic/melancholy/insight, while the IEI find some experience/adventure in the SLE's bold/arrogant/assertive ways. The IEI gets to leave their inner world and have a real experience, the SLE gets to relax away from negotiating reality and consider more deep/artistic things.

You just explained why dj is not my dual and possibly not LSI....

[Creepy-male]

You just explained why dj is not my dual and possibly not LSI....

lol and why is that?

Because you don't think DJ matches my description of LSI?
Because you don't think your relationship with him is characterized by my description?

Lol well I don't care, I wrote that up based of an objective standard that I understand, its not my "observation of reality" but my measuring stick which I use to understand that which I observe in "reality". So in a sense, its not objective, but something I've internalized that represents objective information and can be used to relate to reality with. Make sense?

Possibly DJ is not the right type, possibly you are not the right type, possibly socionics is bullshit, possibly I don't understand socionics, possibly, possibly, possibly I don't care.

I form my understanding, which then provides the descriptions I write. I form my understanding like a samurai sword maker makes a samurai sword, he puts pain staking effort to build the sword from multiple layers, constantly folding the layers of metal to create a better and sharper sword. Except in each chase of the blacksmith's fold, it's a stroke of mental masturbation, and this process never ends, its like I'm on viagra 24/7 and constantly mentally masturbating to keep a mental hard on.... when I see an opportunity to splooge somewhere I take it, and kindly ask that if you don't want to take the load please step away, and if it accidentally gets into your brain, don't swallow, unless you really want to.

Really that's all you got to do, I'm not in the business of intellectually throat fucking people. I just figured, that such a keen craftsmen has to eventually share his work from time to time whether it gets rejected or not.

You wouldn't ask a sword maker to stop practicing his craft because you have no hands to carry it and it isn't practical in your life. would you?..... Would You?

You wouldn't accuse the sword maker of attempting to systematize the world through subtle manipulation because there are many different types of weapons and he is not making them all at once and giving equal worth and representation to all the various types of weaponry. would you?...... Would You?

I'm just going to assume your answer to this is yes, if it is not you can let me know by responding to this with "I'm a fucking idiot".

I would ask you to just tell me you disagree, but as I'm not fully fluent in english, you have to understand it's not really fair to say such things because I don't understand the meaning. It's like when you show the sole of your foot to a turkish person, they get offended, but in america, they don't. I'm from the nation of Lucid and here when you disagree you respond with "I'm a fucking idiot".

So yea... tangent, fuck it. Back on topic. I'm assuming you agreed with not stopping the sword maker, and the reason is when people have the freedom, they make some cool shit. The only exception is when they are at war, and then you don't want them to make swords because they will kill you with these.

Lol and we're not at war are we, because the funny thing is...... I can already tell your insecure about something because you felt the need to ad hom me, so all I have to do is fucking sacrifice this post, which is do-able as it means little to me in the big picture.... it would be trading a pawn for a bishop. Understand? Not a good move.

But I'd be more than willing to discuss things, if you let me practice my craft. Perhaps I can learn to better my skills through our discussion, or perhaps I'll just be a dick about things, either way its all fun for me.

[WVBRY]

I noticed they are like the beta ENTjs...shit talkers, if there ever was one.

[redbaron]

"LSI is the nice beta" and what's so great about being "nice" anyway?

[Gilly]

I'd put it more like "LSIs are the most realistically human Beta."

[discojoe]

"LSI is the nice beta" and what's so great about being "nice" anyway?

Nice guys won't rape you in alleys.

[Creepy-male]

Nice guys won't rape you in alleys.

And if they have to, they will do it nicely.

[discojoe]

Actually, now that I think about it, I think LSI is also the most sane Beta.

[FDG]

I'd rather hang with a beta rational > irrational any day.

meh no way. Process types are hard to handle

[discojoe]

meh no way. Process types are hard to handle

Blah blah generalizations.

[Creepy-male]

Actually, now that I think about it, I think LSI is also the most sane Beta.

Actually,

IEIs -> the most nice, but also potentially the most nasty. Definitely have difficulty with the "sanity" thing.

LSIs -> can be a bit cold and distant (and not outwardly "nice" as a consequence), but typically not ever nasty.

EDIT

This is my Alpha P.O.V. I see my SLE dad and IEI flatmate as being bitchy/nasty/overly critical (as spurts when they're not being nice), perhaps because they aren't avoidant of "bad Fe" like Alpha Irrationals like me.

[silverchris9]

Oh yeah. IEIs are definitely the nicest betas to strangers and acquaintances. Maybe LSI are the nicest to mid-level acquaintances and mid-level friends. Out of betas, that is.

[WVBRY]

Actually,

IEIs -> the most nice, but also potentially the most nasty. Definitely have difficulty with the "sanity" thing.

LSIs -> can be a bit cold and distant (and not outwardly "nice" as a consequence), but typically not ever nasty.

EDIT

This is my Alpha P.O.V. I see my SLE dad and IEI flatmate as being bitchy/nasty/overly critical (as spurts when they're not being nice), perhaps because they aren't avoidant of "bad Fe" like Alpha Irrationals like me.

Do you know any real life sensory ISTjs?!

[Creepy-male]

Do you know any real life sensory ISTjs?!

I don't do two subtypes.

[WVBRY]

Nice guys won't rape you in alleys.

Yes But doesnt this contradict your role as serial killer?

[WVBRY]

I don't do two subtypes.

the H subtype then.

[Creepy-male]

the H subtype then.

I find it inconceivable that a subtype called "Harmonising" would ever be "nasty". Especially considering a very good friend of mine is a Harmonising subtype, and one of the most pathologically kind people you will ever happen upon.

Describe this nastiness.

Anyway, I'm going to soften my assertion above a bit. I remember one LSI maths teacher (not a strong typing, could easily have been LSE) made a huge scene about "bringing me in line" because I wasn't following his commands to the class to the letter.

[redbaron]

I am H subtype and never nasty. I can ignore people, that's about as mean as I get. I guess I can be critical in the right scenario but I usually keep it to myself unless there's some really good reason. Once it starts bubbling over though, I'm not that likely to couch it in "nice" terms, I'll just say it like I see it, which could be hurtful I suppose. I dunno.

[discojoe]

I am H subtype and never nasty. I can ignore people, that's about as mean as I get. I guess I can be critical in the right scenario but I usually keep it to myself unless there's some really good reason. Once it starts bubbling over though, I'm not that likely to couch it in "nice" terms, I'll just say it like I see it, which could be hurtful I suppose. I dunno.

D supervises H.

[FDG]

D supervises H.

The other way around...

[Absurd]

The other way around...

I think discojoe was trying to say that D comes before H in the alphabet.

[discojoe]

The other way around...

Uh....

Asymmetric repellent relations. For their designation we will use the code term subtype supervision. They bear the nature of rate setting, retention within the framework, one-sided braking. They are directed in the opposite direction in comparison to benefit. They are useful from the point of view of correction, the correction of errors. Dominant inspects harmonizing. Harmonizing inspects normalizing. Normalizing impedes and corrects creative. And creative - dominant. And here occurs the closing of the outline, only in the reverse direction of the main vector.

[FDG]

Uh....

Asymmetric repellent relations. For their designation we will use the code term subtype supervision. They bear the nature of rate setting, retention within the framework, one-sided braking. They are directed in the opposite direction in comparison to benefit. They are useful from the point of view of correction, the correction of errors. Dominant inspects harmonizing. Harmonizing inspects normalizing. Normalizing impedes and corrects creative. And creative - dominant. And here occurs the closing of the outline, only in the reverse direction of the main vector.

Oh, okay, I remember reading a completely different passage (creative -> normalizing -> harmonizing -> dominant -> creative), perhaps it was one of the earlier versions of the theory :S

edit: the ring I described is benefit, supervision is like you said

[The Exception]

I'm confused now. I thought supervision went in the direction of D supervising C supervising N supervising H supervising D.

Is there a benefit ring to DCNH and is it in the opposite direction of supervision?

[mikemex]

I know an LSI woman and she seems nice. I'm polite to her and she seems to like being noticed. She's a bureaucrat and I suspect, LSIs work hard and diligently and likes very much when people don't just take them for granted.

However, being an IEE I try to keep distance. I make a conscious effort to be somewhat consistent in my attidue toward her because I know LSIs dislike unpredictability. It takes quite an effort because I'm very inconsistent in how I treat people: sometimes and I'm very nice, at other times people could say I'm cold to them.

I must say though, that I absolutely don't understand them at all.

[Creepy-male]

I'm confused now. I thought supervision went in the direction of D supervising C supervising N supervising H supervising D.

Is there a benefit ring to DCNH and is it in the opposite direction of supervision?

Yup.

You're either Identical, Dual, Benefactor or Supervisor in DCNH. Benefit runs opposite of Supervision.

You benefit your supervisory subtype. I think.

Supervisee = Benefactor.
Supervisor = Beneficiary.