Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 48

Thread: Type me, please

  1. #1
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Type me, please

    Hi there. New to this forum, new to Socionics. I've lurked here a bit and will offer my guess as to my type: IEI with the ethical (Diplomat) subtype. [http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=IEI_subtypes] In fact, however, that subtype seems to describe me better than I think the IEI portrait does.

    I've taken three online Socionics self-tests and came up with three disparate results: IEI, EIE, and IEE. Of those possibilities, IEE seems the least likely to me.

    My Ennegram type is 4. My classical temperament is mostly melancholic with flares of choleric. I'm sort of Venusian--I love art, beauty, and the world of intense feeling. That said, I have tried to balance that out by developing my mind.

    Physical: I'm female, tall, thin but slightly athletic in an elongated way (dancer's build). Heart-shaped face, wavy hair, large eyes, straight nose, big cheekbones. My face is seen as very expressive. I am considered elegant, but probably goofy, too. I'm well-coordinated in my movements yet tend to bump into things by misjudging the environment. That problem disappears if I am in nature and focus strongly on navigating, say, rough terrain. I can sit still for long periods sometimes, but I probably still look alert and engaged. Sometimes I get restless, too, and will fidget or walk around. Depends.

    I'm fairly particular about clothing and tend to be well dressed. I have no interest in the prestige factor of my clothes, shunning the flashy label, but appreciate good quality and good fit. I mix classic things with trendy ones. I might dress way up or way down. I don't like a lot of ornamentation, such as many pieces of heavy jewelry. Simplicity punctuated by one strong detail suits me best. That detail might be seen as a clue to my personality; in other words, I might wear something elegant or even slightly conservative and dressy but feel compelled to add a Rolling Stones T-shirt so that I don't look generic and to make it clear, I guess, that I don't really "believe in" the serious outfit. Make sense? Probably not, lol. My favorite footwear: boots--dramatic, powerful-looking.

    Interests and occupation: I work as a book editor. I used to have an in-house publishing job that I really loved, because my role was broadly defined and involved a lot of teamwork and creativity and in-person contact with authors and other members of the trade. For several years I have freelanced owing to living in a rural location, and having my work function narrowed down and my contact with others limited has been a major downer.

    In my work I'm attuned to details and manage them well, but I'm always seeking to balance them out with the big picture.

    I have a background in the performing arts--music, dance, acting. I'm a trained classical pianist and used to work professionally as an accompanist, and I'm a singer/songwriter.

    I love animals, art, design, literature, foreign languages, and social theory.


    Personality traits: I'm very passionately emotional and swing back and forth in ways that must confuse others. Sometimes open, sometimes reserved. Sometimes sweet, sometimes bitchy. I have a quick temper, which dies away quickly, and I enjoy a certain amount of teasing and conflict. I care a lot about others in general, and can always be counted on to step in when someone is in real trouble and other people are abandoning them because it's too distasteful to deal with their situation or whatever. But in the day-to-day run of things, I doubt that most people would suspect that about me. I will do things like privately help an abused homeless woman get social services and a place to live, and in a case like that, the recipient of my help will be surprised that of all the seemingly nice people everywhere, I am the one who will come through with actual emotional and practical support.

    Believe it or not, I have a lot of humor, and I poke fun at myself above all. I know I am totally ridiculous and don't mind admitting it. I like to have fun and see life as a series of small adventures.

    Many of my friends are eccentrics, intellectuals, and oddballs, but never of the hippie type. Always more serious, heavy, artistic, and even mildly insane--literally so. These last types look to me for a combination of tolerance and stable support.

    I love conversation and am quite happy to discuss mundane things like the weather or someone's skirt, but I generally elevate conversation. That is, I bring in various facts, historical context, theory, relevant artworks, personal anecdotes, probing questions, or whatever I can to forge connections to things I find informative or that might relate to the life of the person I'm speaking with. I like to affirm other people and make them feel good about themselves.

    I usually size up other people quickly and accurately, going past their surface image and instead picking up on the hidden things about them. Vibes?

    I have something bordering on intolerance for religious and spiritual systems, although with maturity I see that these things are very important and helpful for many people. That said, I absolutely despise hypocrisy of every kind, and often I find that people who adhere to some kind of system exhibit exactly that, hypocrisy. I'm an anti-sheeple. I have strong opinions and say what I think, but I usually do so diplomatically, and I am good at mediating between people in conflict. If one person is harshly judging or harming another, I can find the right words and tone to help the oppressor become more tolerant without losing face, and to help the oppressed party understand and forgive the meanie.

    My own interest in spiritual things is limited to what I can actually perceive, but that tends to be a lot. I usually will not disclose this to anyone but my very closest friends, but in the interest of being accurate here, I'm a bit clairvoyant/clairaudient. I have seen ghosts, my dead relatives talk to me, and I can determine the sex of an unborn child using my hands in the air about three feet from a woman's body. I can discern edible from non-edible plants because the former have a strange glow around them, and I have explored physical locations in dreams and daydreams in advance of going to them in person, and then found that I accurately picked up on many details, such as the size and location of a specific large rock or a body of water. That sort of thing. This set of "abilities" or whatever has caused me a lot of problems, because I will "know" something but have absolutely no logical basis for it, making it difficult to convince other people in my life of something very important that will happen in the future. Even I will sometimes discount what I "know" because it has no basis in the rational. It's weird, it's embarrassing, but this stuff is a major part of my life so it seems best to mention it.

    I'm very exploratory sexually and do not really like plain and basic routine sex. I particularly prefer sex that involves power exchange or breaking taboos. Yet this must occur within the context of love and respect and fun, or it's just unpleasant to me.

    All in all, I'd say I'm not very stable, but I'm perceived as harmless. I believe I come off as more together than I am and that other people would be surprised to know how internally sensitive I am and that I nurture many troubles and preoccupations. I have a lot of unrealized dreams and put tremendous pressure on myself. Nothing I do ever seems satisfactory to me. I try to resolve this by making sure not to get too isolated. Feedback from friends and from groups helps me regulate myself and my self-concept.

    So, I'm probably a Beta? And I find it interesting that a lot of people round here have made comments about Betas being self-aggrandizing or haughty. I think it's true I can come off that way, and I would point out that it's really just a front. I struggle mightily with self-confidence almost all the time.
    ------
    Enough for now? (Ha!)
    Last edited by golden; 09-06-2010 at 05:30 AM.

  2. #2
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Pretty please?

  3. #3
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    What hidden things can you pick out about me?

  4. #4
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's not hidden, is it? You're a bit unwelcoming.

    In fact, the things I pick up on tend to come through sound of voice and physical movement, and I have neither of those here. From your photo, I would guess that you have a certain hidden sharpness to your character and that people respect you or feel compelled to give you space. You appear intense and curious but in a directed way--focused on particular topics or ideas, maybe. I would think you'd be a diligent worker, someone who can get things done without calling a lot of attention to yourself. You'd probably make a good mother in the sense of getting all of your children's needs met. You are probably very intense in love and not fickle. Someone expansive could be good for you.

    I would guess that you see a lot more than you let people know you see. That you strategize or control things but don't always like that about yourself. That you're nicer than you think you are. Is it easy or hard for you to let go and show people the depth of your love?

  5. #5
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    I am the first person to greet you at the door, if I find that you're a new person and I get the slightest feeling that you feel uncomfortable in the space were I also hang out.

    I am the first person to offer you a seat and introduce you to a company of individuals.

    I am the first person that will offer you good food and try to offer you comfort to get you to feel like you're at home.

    If those things don't work then I'll be the first person to hook you up to people who I think can help you better then I can.

    What can you see about me now?

  6. #6
    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,474
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I like you Golden Wings.
    IEE-Ne

  7. #7
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Hi there. New to this forum, new to Socionics. I've lurked here a bit and will offer my guess as to my type: IEI with the ethical (Diplomat) subtype. [IEI subtypes - Wikisocion] In fact, however, that subtype seems to describe me better than I think the IEI portrait does.

    I've taken three online Socionics self-tests and came up with three disparate results: IEI, EIE, and IEE. Of those possibilities, IEE seems the least likely to me.

    My Ennegram type is 4. My classical temperament is mostly melancholic with flares of choleric. I'm sort of Venusian--I love art, beauty, and the world of intense feeling. That said, I have tried to balance that out by developing my mind.
    Not helpful for determining type. Please talk about how you remember certain textures, colors, etc. This is Si related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Physical: I'm female, tall, thin but slightly athletic in an elongated way (dancer's build). Heart-shaped face, wavy hair, large eyes, straight nose, big cheekbones. My face is seen as very expressive. I am considered elegant, but probably goofy, too. I'm well-coordinated in my movements yet tend to bump into things by misjudging the environment. That problem disappears if I am in nature and focus strongly on navigating, say, rough terrain. I can sit still for long periods sometimes, but I probably still look alert and engaged. Sometimes I get restless, too, and will fidget or walk around. Depends.
    humm....S or Se. INFp are a bit spaced out and look distracted. Also not very helpful. You seem to do a bit of Se. I'm pretty sure now you're not INFp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    I'm fairly particular about clothing and tend to be well dressed. I have no interest in the prestige factor of my clothes, shunning the flashy label, but appreciate good quality and good fit. I mix classic things with trendy ones. I might dress way up or way down. I don't like a lot of ornamentation, such as many pieces of heavy jewelry. Simplicity punctuated by one strong detail suits me best. That detail might be seen as a clue to my personality; in other words, I might wear something elegant or even slightly conservative and dressy but feel compelled to add a Rolling Stones T-shirt so that I don't look generic and to make it clear, I guess, that I don't really "believe in" the serious outfit. Make sense? Probably not, lol. My favorite footwear: boots--dramatic, powerful-looking.
    very practical approach...Se. I would say that you're Beta or Gamma. You're Se valuing. You ignore Si completely. I would say not ISTj because they have Si demonstrating. Unless you can talk a little about Si stuff...please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Interests and occupation: I work as a book editor. I used to have an in-house publishing job that I really loved, because my role was broadly defined and involved a lot of teamwork and creativity and in-person contact with authors and other members of the trade. For several years I have freelanced owing to living in a rural location, and having my work function narrowed down and my contact with others limited has been a major downer.
    Ethical type. Ethical Beta or Gamma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    In my work I'm attuned to details and manage them well, but I'm always seeking to balance them out with the big picture.
    Bit S here. You could just have a great developed Se. How do you balance them out to the big picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    I have a background in the performing arts--music, dance, acting. I'm a trained classical pianist and used to work professionally as an accompanist, and I'm a singer/songwriter.
    I love animals, art, design, literature, foreign languages, and social theory.
    So do a lot of humans, but none of this helps to determine your type. What about some of these things do you love?


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Personality traits: I'm very passionately emotional and swing back and forth in ways that must confuse others. Sometimes open, sometimes reserved. Sometimes sweet, sometimes bitchy. I have a quick temper, which dies away quickly, and I enjoy a certain amount of teasing and conflict. I care a lot about others in general, and can always be counted on to step in when someone is in real trouble and other people are abandoning them because it's too distasteful to deal with their situation or whatever. But in the day-to-day run of things, I doubt that most people would suspect that about me. I will do things like privately help an abused homeless woman get social services and a place to live, and in a case like that, the recipient of my help will be surprised that of all the seemingly nice people everywhere, I am the one who will come through with actual emotional and practical support.
    I don't know Fi could be in role (ISTj), activation (ISTp), valuing (ESTj), practicing (INFj), just too many choices with regards to Fi here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Believe it or not, I have a lot of humor, and I poke fun at myself above all. I know I am totally ridiculous and don't mind admitting it. I like to have fun and see life as a series of small adventures.

    Many of my friends are eccentrics, intellectuals, and oddballs, but never of the hippie type. Always more serious, heavy, artistic, and even mildly insane--literally so. These last types look to me for a combination of tolerance and stable support.

    I love conversation and am quite happy to discuss mundane things like the weather or someone's skirt, but I generally elevate conversation. That is, I bring in various facts, historical context, theory, relevant artworks, personal anecdotes, probing questions, or whatever I can to forge connections to things I find informative or that might relate to the life of the person I'm speaking with. I like to affirm other people and make them feel good about themselves.
    small talk is interesting to a point, but for me it gets boring too fast. I prefer the novel. You seem to be S type. SEE seems to be an interesting choice for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    I usually size up other people quickly and accurately, going past their surface image and instead picking up on the hidden things about them. Vibes?
    This doesn't mean much to me; every person tries their hand on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    I have something bordering on intolerance for religious and spiritual systems, although with maturity I see that these things are very important and helpful for many people. That said, I absolutely despise hypocrisy of every kind, and often I find that people who adhere to some kind of system exhibit exactly that, hypocrisy. I'm an anti-sheeple. I have strong opinions and say what I think, but I usually do so diplomatically, and I am good at mediating between people in conflict. If one person is harshly judging or harming another, I can find the right words and tone to help the oppressor become more tolerant without losing face, and to help the oppressed party understand and forgive the meanie.
    Intolerance is a strong word. It's judgemental and sort of Fi ish

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    My own interest in spiritual things is limited to what I can actually perceive, but that tends to be a lot. I usually will not disclose this to anyone but my very closest friends, but in the interest of being accurate here, I'm a bit clairvoyant/clairaudient. I have seen ghosts, my dead relatives talk to me, and I can determine the sex of an unborn child using my hands in the air about three feet from a woman's body. I can discern edible from non-edible plants because the former have a strange glow around them, and I have explored physical locations in dreams and daydreams in advance of going to them in person, and then found that I accurately picked up on many details, such as the size and location of a specific large rock or a body of water. That sort of thing. This set of "abilities" or whatever has caused me a lot of problems, because I will "know" something but have absolutely no logical basis for it, making it difficult to convince other people in my life of something very important that will happen in the future. Even I will sometimes discount what I "know" because it has no basis in the rational. It's weird, it's embarrassing, but this stuff is a major part of my life so it seems best to mention it.

    I'm very exploratory sexually and do not really like plain and basic routine sex. I particularly prefer sex that involves power exchange or breaking taboos. Yet this must occur within the context of love and respect and fun, or it's just unpleasant to me.

    Fi valuing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    All in all, I'd say I'm not very stable, but I'm perceived as harmless. I believe I come off as more together than I am and that other people would be surprised to know how internally sensitive I am and that I nurture many troubles and preoccupations. I have a lot of unrealized dreams and put tremendous pressure on myself. Nothing I do ever seems satisfactory to me. I try to resolve this by making sure not to get too isolated. Feedback from friends and from groups helps me regulate myself and my self-concept.
    I interpret part of this as Ni. You are not Fe valuing. You're Fi valuing. Gamma. If you do value Fe then you're Beta for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    So, I'm probably a Beta? And I find it interesting that a lot of people round here have made comments about Betas being self-aggrandizing or haughty. I think it's true I can come off that way, and I would point out that it's really just a front. I struggle mightily with self-confidence almost all the time.
    ------
    Enough for now? (Ha!)
    You don't seem to be Beta. They are self confident, some of that Se thing going on there that's I confuse for my duals who also have Se demonstrating.

    IDK ethical type seems to be a stronger choice though; you don't seem to be ISTj or ESTj at all. ENFp seems to be up there so does ESFp.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-06-2010 at 09:51 PM.

  8. #8
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks, Maritsa. I appreciate you taking the time to read through my tangle of words and will see if I can better address the issues that will clarify things.

    As for welcoming, I'm just a bit peevish about forum and Listserv dynamics. If I want to welcome someone, I say, literally, "Welcome," and other things of that nature. But ultimately, you did make me feel welcome here, and I appreciate it.

  9. #9
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    I like you Golden Wings.
    Merci, M. Bumbling. Tu me plais egalement.

  10. #10
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    There are many ways to welcome someone; you don't have to expect generic response like "welcome" to feel that, I'm sure. A simple starter conversations, can very well make a person feel existence and acknowledged.

    But, welcome, if it is what you prefer the most.

  11. #11
    crazedrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I picked your wings off.
    INTp

  12. #12
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Not helpful for determining type. Please talk about how you remember certain textures, colors, etc. This is Si related.
    I would say I remember them globally, like one big canvas covered with washes of color, and I remember the feelings and impressions connected with those events. I will recall specific details, such as how a person's face looked at a particular moment, only because it provoked a huge reaction in me. To recall texture, color, and odor, it's like I re-create it and reexperience it in my body, and if I can do that, then other, related things come back, too.

    I might remember a whole room, or a whole section of sky at sunset, or how it felt to ride down the highway next to someone I love in a particular car. The quality of the light, the things that were said to me, but again, in relation to how it made me feel at that time.


    humm....S or Se. INFp are a bit spaced out and look distracted. Also not very helpful. You seem to do a bit of Se. I'm pretty sure now you're not INFp.
    When I was a teenager I was accused of being spaced out. But I don't think that's the case anymore, nor has it been for a long time. I just asked a close friend I'm visiting if she thinks I ever look spaced out, and she said "No" without qualification. I tend to pay careful attention to my environment and size it up constantly in terms of how it looks, how it feels, who is there and what their qualities are and their lives might be like.

    very practical approach...Se. I would say that you're Beta or Gamma. You're Se valuing. You ignore Si completely. I would say not ISTj because they have Si demonstrating. Unless you can talk a little about Si stuff...please.
    I don't see myself as a T anything, but I'm open to being wrong. I have a lot of T friends and a T ex-husband, and man, I find there to be a world of difference. Now, it's possible that I have worked for years to become more practical and more rational, without really altering my basic approach to things. My best friend is a definite INFP, and she is way, way moodier than I am, way more easily affected by everything. We met as kids and our lives developed in parallel for many years, but they diverged at a particular point. She went into academia and became a professor and poet, and I took my love for books in the direction of something practical and tangible: making books.

    At the end of the day, I want to be able to hold something in my hands and say, "I made this, and X number of people will read it for their education or entertainment." I cannot spend untold hours mastering literary theory, although I am capable of understanding it. It just doesn't satisfy me at all.

    Reading about Si:

    Si is responsible for perception of physical sensations; questions of comfort, coziness, and pleasure; and a sense of harmony and acclimation with one's environment (especially physical). Si understand how well a person or thing's behavior agrees with its nature as well as the differences between comfortable behaviors and positions and uncomfortable ones.

    Hm. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle on this. "Cozy" and "comfortable" are okay, but they are not of utmost value to me, nor is it a true talent of mine. I'm more apt to notice how things stand out from the environment, and sometimes I probably stand out uncomfortably, also. This description of Si also brings to mind the fact that I have had to undergo significant and costly piano-technique retraining and Alexander technique lessons in order to better harmonize my movements with the physical requirements of playing an instrument, sitting in a chair, etc. Finding the best, most "at ease," and efficient solutions to those things does not come naturally to me at all; rather, I find myself at odds with the physical world often.

    Ethical type. Ethical Beta or Gamma.
    Sounds plausible.


    Bit S here. You could just have a great developed Se. How do you balance them out to the big picture?
    The way I balance details with the big picture. Well, to me the big picture is about process. Let's say I'm working on a book project. First I will get a bunch of feelings about the manuscript and whatever photos or illustrations accompany it. From that emotional connection, I build a mental image of the finished book--its shape, its size, its colors, and who will hold in his/her hands and what they should feel. Then I start to fill in the details. I'll spend a few hours developing samples of typefaces that I think support and express the tone of the book and communicate its message.

    The fun part is to take those ideas to the book's designer and have a meeting. She will always have knowledge and perspective that I didn't consider. She might suggest similar typefaces that are superior. She might disagree with my idea about how to treat the type. Or maybe she will take an idea of mine for how to treat a particular photo several steps further. This exchange is exciting to me. My basic ideas get supported, but I also learn something new and go beyond my previous limitations.

    Now that these big-picture things are attended to, it's time to look at the details. It might be my job to edit, copyedit, or oversee someone else charged with that task. These words in all their detail are treated carefully and, if I'm executing the task, in a loving and respectful fashion. Although it's about the nitty-gritty, the point is to imagine all that the author has poured into the manuscript, and at the same time, how it will connect with the reader.

    And so on. The details serve the whole.

    So do a lot of humans, but none of this helps to determine your type. What about some of these things do you love?
    Okie-dokes. What do I love about animals, art, design, literature, foreign languages, and social theory?

    They aren't all the same. Let's say I'm sitting in a performance space and listening to a symphony. I love how the sound fills up my senses and takes me out of the here-and-now into a sense of the timeless. My self-consciousness dies away, and the sense of being tied to little, unpleasant things falls away, and I know that I am part of something bigger. Across time and space, the intentions and the "soul" and heart of the composer travel to me and to everyone else in the room, and I feel connected to the artist and to all the other audience members. I get a feeling for the composer's world, I know how much dedication went into mastering the craft to create this artwork, and I feel immense gratitude for this gift of beauty. It's a feeling of extreme release that I struggle to capture here in words, powerful enough that I will remember it for years and years and feel that it enriched and even transformed my life.

    And the artworks that truly resonate with me will provoke synesthesia: that painting by Chagall delivers tastes, that Scriabin etude delivers swirls of color, that animal, without me touching it, will carry a physical sensation and might even be associated in my mind with some kind of sound picture.


    I don't know Fi could be in role (ISTj), activation (ISTp), valuing (ESTj), practicing (INFj), just too many choices with regards to Fi here.
    I'm too much of a Socionics neophyte to address this without further information--apologies.


    small talk is interesting to a point, but for me it gets boring too fast. I prefer the novel. You seem to be S type. SEE seems to be an interesting choice for you.
    Small talk can get boring (hence my tendency to enliven it), but it's somehow very reassuring to me. As for SEE, I'd say about 80 percent of the description at ₪₪₪ Socionics - The New Psychology ₪₪₪ applies to me well.


    Intolerance is a strong word. It's judgemental and sort of Fi ish
    Yeah, I guess you're right, a strong word. It's accurate for me, though. I'd like to be more live-and-let-live, and although I do not tell people how to live, I have a strong desire for things to be different than they are. I suppose I'm a bit idealistic in terms of strongly wanting for people to never impose their religion or any other "system" on me, or even on anyone else. Okay, maybe this is a flaw of mine. I hate to be limited or even to see other people submit to limitation, especially in their thinking.


    I interpret part of this as Ni. You are not Fe valuing. You're Fi valuing. Gamma. If you do value Fe then you're Beta for sure.
    I read the following description of Fe:

    Fe is responsible for the perception of an emotional state in an individual and the bodily and linguistic expression of emotions. Fe is able to influence others' emotional condition and to communicate its own, "infecting" others. Fe is used especially in generating and recognizing excitement and enthusiasm.

    I would say that applies to me very well. I've done a certain amount of stagework and public speaking and am effective at it because of an ability to reach people on an emotional level. If I am presenting factual information, I frame it in such a way as to help the listener feel differently about what they're doing or what they want or could want. For example, I've spoken at writers' conferences about small-press publishing, where the cornerstone of my presentation has generally been about the basic point of writing and publishing books in the first place. Many aspiring writers see their efforts as some kind of get-rich-quick scheme, and the statistics on book sales and earning do not bear this out. So what, then, are some of the other reasons that we in the book industry do what we do? We contribute to and document our culture. We hope to reach readers and touch their lives.

    Delivered with sincerity and conviction, this kind of inquiry seems to have a strong effect on the listener. I am asking them to search inside themselves for the deeper reasons behind a human activity, and their responses tell me that I have reached them on what I would call the "level of the heart." That's what matters most to me.


    You don't seem to be Beta. They are self confident, some of that Se thing going on there that's I confuse for my duals who also have Se demonstrating.

    IDK ethical type seems to be a stronger choice though; you don't seem to be ISTj or ESTj at all. ENFp seems to be up there so does ESFp.
    I'm definitely not ESTJ or ISTJ. I know people of these types and like them, but it's because they deliver something that I cannot. That said, I'm often in agreement with them but find I'm using a different set of processes to arrive at the shared conclusions and values.

    Taking a cue from your focus on the elements Socionics identifies, here's how I think those fit me:

    Te: Extraverted logic (thinking). Yes, I use this to some extent, but primarily in my work. On a scale of 1 to 10, I rate my use of Te as maybe a 5.

    Fe: Extraverted ethics (feeling). Scale of 1 to 10: 8 or 9, and on a good day, 10. And I'd say that the most fulfilling experiences of my life can be described by this element.

    Se: Extraverted sensing. Here I'll go with 6 or 7.

    Ne: Extraverted intuition. For this one, 6.

    Ti: Introverted logic. I'd say 3 or 4.

    Fe: Introverted ethics. Oh, maybe 5 or 6.

    Si: Introverted sensing. 3 or 4.

    Ni: Introverted intuition. 7 or 8.

  13. #13
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat360 View Post
    I picked your wings off.
    That's cool, crazedrat. Enjoy. You can mount them for display if you like. (I'll just grow a new pair.) *Ah, there. Good as new.*

  14. #14
    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    US
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    522
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Many of my friends are eccentrics, intellectuals, and oddballs, but never of the hippie type. Always more serious, heavy, artistic, and even mildly insane--literally so. These last types look to me for a combination of tolerance and stable support.
    Wherever do you find such reasonable company.

    Anywho, you're IEI FO SHO. It's like you took the description right out of the book and added personal quirks. Are you/do you plan on going to college? If so, I'm curious what major you're interested in.
    Last edited by Skeptic; 09-07-2010 at 01:22 AM.

  15. #15
    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    US
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    522
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Eh… don't ward new people off with inane drama, ok? Most people, especially if they're new, don't care to hear about such shit. It just comes off creepy and weird from their POV.
    Oh very well then. My intention was for her not to waste her time, but I understand it may not have come off that way.

  16. #16
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    Wherever do you find such reasonable company.

    Anywho, you're IEI FO SHO. It's like you took the description right out of the book and added personal quirks. Are you/do you plan on going to college? If so, I'm curious what major you're interested in.
    Weirdos gravitate toward me naturally, and among them I am the most "normal" and regulated of the bunch.

    IEI--okay. I already went to college. English major, French minor, worked my way through school as a pianist. Was going to major in theater but decided I wanted to make some attempt at developing my intellect. Not that an actor can't be intellectual, but I ... wasn't, lol. Something was lacking.

    Oh, and as for wasting time, I don't mind wasting my own but certainly don't want to waste anyone else's. I know I'm long-winded, but yeah, I think circuitously when I'm trying to solve a problem. Even if it's something as potentially simple as affirming that I'm IEI. To the extent you can tolerate it, thanks.

  17. #17
    xerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,469
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Eh… don't ward new people off with inane drama, ok? Most people, especially if they're new, don't care to hear about such shit. It just comes off creepy and weird from their POV.
    His original point was valid IMO, and I believe you're over-reacting in the belief that he'd be warding anyone off by warning people. Maritsa does have a controversial typing spectrum that's completely out of line with everyone else's, and it would disingenuous not to tell people about it. Though I agree it perhaps should have been phrased less dramatically. If you want to continue this discussion, start a new thread.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

  18. #18
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,098
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Te: Extraverted logic (thinking). Yes, I use this to some extent, but primarily in my work. On a scale of 1 to 10, I rate my use of Te as maybe a 5.

    Fe: Extraverted ethics (feeling). Scale of 1 to 10: 8 or 9, and on a good day, 10. And I'd say that the most fulfilling experiences of my life can be described by this element.

    Se: Extraverted sensing. Here I'll go with 6 or 7.

    Ne: Extraverted intuition. For this one, 6.

    Ti: Introverted logic. I'd say 3 or 4.

    Fe: Introverted ethics. Oh, maybe 5 or 6.

    Si: Introverted sensing. 3 or 4.

    Ni: Introverted intuition. 7 or 8.
    This has you at ENFj; make of it what you will.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  19. #19
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    This has you at ENFj; make of it what you will.
    Thanks, Crispy. What I make of it is ... the Socionics descriptions of EIE are not too far from me, but the traditional descriptions of ENFJ make me skeptical, as I don't believe I have the charisma and organization skills associated with the type.

    I have an ex-boyfriend I'm pretty sure is an EIE, and he and I are a lot alike, but he is ... more. He's a rock musician, he keeps attention riveted on him wherever he goes, his attire is more eccentric, and he definitely gives long, elaborate speeches that take my breath away and spin so many ideas rapidly, one after another, that I have a hard time keeping up. He's socially masterful--he knows hundreds and hundreds of people--and can organize them in events.

    However, if my INFP bestie were to describe her experience of me, she might say that in relation to her I'm probably more like this ex is to me. That is, I'm more extreme, more attention-getting, flashier in appearance, and prone to give long speeches that she finds fascinating. Does that make sense? I sort of fall somewhere in between those two on a spectrum.
    Last edited by golden; 09-07-2010 at 05:50 AM.

  20. #20
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Post pics so I can be lazy and VI.
    Later tonight or tomorrow maybe I'll just make a little YouTube video so you can get a better idea.

  21. #21
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,098
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So probably EIE-Ni or IEI-Fe.
    Which of these vague one-word descriptions do you relate to more?
    Diplomat OR Actor
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  22. #22
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    So probably EIE-Ni or IEI-Fe.
    Which of these vague one-word descriptions do you relate to more?
    Diplomat OR Actor
    Theatrical Diplomat? Diplomatic Actor?

  23. #23
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Eh, well, I tried to do a YouTube video and had sound issues. So here are some still photos. I run from cameras generally, but you get the idea. A lot of these are me looking scruffy in the desert or after swimming, but whatever.

    At this point I guess I'm just looking to verify that I'm IEI-fe; it's starting to seem cut-and-dried. Feel free to try VI-ing my fella, too.

    ETA: photos removed. If you wanna see 'em, you can PM me.
    Last edited by golden; 09-10-2010 at 04:04 AM.

  24. #24
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    You VI as INFp

    A very gorgeous INFp

  25. #25
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks for the quick VI, Maritsa. As for the compliment, *blush.*

    Now, regarding the fella ... I'm very curious, and let's frame this by saying we are so, so in love.

    He's definitely extroverted and feeling. Seems more SF than NF by far, so IMO he's either ESFJ or ESFP, but please God let him be ESFP. Because if he is my supervisee, that is a disaster. Our relationship seems very much like the description of semi-duals. "Moth to candle," have to be together, super attracted to each other, feel really great together, yet we regularly deal with a certain amount of discord that neither of us takes too seriously. The friction blows in and out in cycles and seems like a small price to pay for the wonderfulness. In fact, our little quarrels are sort of silly and even kinda enjoyable. We feel very evenly matched but probably with a blind spot.

    I was in a supervision couple once (as supervisee), and it was the worst relationship of my life by far, far, far. (Worse even than a marriage to an ESTJ; yes, I know, I'm an idiot to have married my conflictor.) My supervisor criticized everything about me to the point of cruelty and nearly drove me insane--I mean, I was practically catatonic three months in.

    My current relationship bears zero resemblance to that one, from either my POV or his. We just love to be together and have lots and lots and LOTS of fun.

    He's practical but hates routine, is pretty flexible and makes rough plans but leaves things open-ended. Very aesthetically aware, knows all about design and clothes and takes beautiful photos in nature. He's dramatic, has done acting voiceover work and been in/helped produce music videos. In general, he's driven to "seek new stimulations," in his own words. So I think he's a P person.

    But if he's J and I'm doomed to make him miserable, I guess I'd rather know, even though I can't imagine not being with him ...
    Last edited by golden; 09-08-2010 at 06:59 AM.

  26. #26
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Thanks for the quick VI, Maritsa. As for the compliment, *blush.*


    I can be a little shy sometimes, please excuse me for the first impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Now, regarding the fella ... I'm very curious, and let's frame this by saying we are so, so in love.

    He's definitely extroverted and feeling. Seems more SF than NF by far, so IMO he's either ESFJ or ESFP, but please God let him be ESFP. Because if he is my supervisee, that is a disaster. Our relationship seems very much like the description of semi-duals. "Moth to candle," have to be together, super attracted to each other, feel really great together, yet we regularly deal with a certain amount of discord that neither of us takes too seriously. The friction blows in and out in cycles and seems like a small price to pay for the wonderfulness. In fact, our little quarrels are sort of silly and even kinda enjoyable. We feel very evenly matched but probably with a blind spot.

    I was in a supervision couple once (as supervisee), and it was the worst relationship of my life by far, far, far. (Worse even than a marriage to an ESTJ; yes, I know, I'm an idiot to have married my conflictor.) My supervisor criticized everything about me to the point of cruelty and nearly drove me insane--I mean, I was practically catatonic three months in.
    You and ESTj would not be a very healthy relationship at all. I'm glad though that it's in the past for you and you can let go of the pain. For this reason, and perhaps many more, I think Socionics is very valuable and can save people a lot of heartbreak and wasted energy, but that's just my potential () insight that I'm speaking of.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    My current relationship bears zero resemblance to that one, from either my POV or his. We just love to be together and have lots and lots and LOTS of fun.

    He's practical but hates routine, is pretty flexible and makes rough plans but leaves things open-ended. Very aesthetically aware, knows all about design and clothes and takes beautiful photos in nature. He's dramatic, has done acting voiceover work and been in/helped produce music videos. In general, he's driven to "seek new stimulations," in his own words. So I think he's a P person.

    But if he's J and I'm doomed to make him miserable, I guess I'd rather know, even though I can't imagine not being with him ...

    He is not a J type

    He's a STp; Can either be ESTp or ISTp; try to figure out whether he has Se or Si in the ego block or Te or Ti in the ego block and you'll figure out his type. I'm pretty sure though that he is ESTp. I don't see how he can be ESFp; I'm pretty sure though that he is not.

    He is certainly a P type. He seems far far too much Se, from what you say, that he seeks external stimulation to be Si ego type.

  27. #27
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post


    I can be a little shy sometimes, please excuse me for the first impression.
    Eh, I can be oversensitive when I meet someone new. No worries at all.


    You and ESTj would not be a very healthy relationship at all. I'm glad though that it's in the past for you and you can let go of the pain. For this reason, and perhaps many more, I think Socionics is very valuable and can save people a lot of heartbreak and wasted energy, but that's just my potential () insight that I'm speaking of.
    No kidding. And what really sucks is that I considered his type carefully when I met him--I thought it a little alarming that we were opposites across all four categories of E/I, S/N, etc. I wondered, "How on earth is THAT supposed to work?" But you know, the old-fashioned Please Understand Me stuff held it up as a good match! Grrr. If I'd known of Socionics at the time, maybe I would have decided not to marry him--I'm not kidding. Because although he had so many fine qualities, and in many ways he did fit for me for the first few years (I need to be with someone strong, smart, and practical), I felt there was something off but could not put my finger on it.

    Hey, Maritsa, my ex is your dual, right? He's available, lol. I'm sure I caused him as much pain as he me, just by my nature. He tried so hard to do everything "right," and for a long, long time so did I, but we just couldn't be what the other person needed. In our initial divorce talk, we both even said that: "I'm sorry I can't be what you need me to be." Unfortunately, because we live in a culture that tends to value his modes more than mine, it's pretty easy for him to play the "I'm superior because I'm stable and practical" card, so the divorce process was beyond awful.

    He is not a J type

    He's a STp; Can either be ESTp or ISTp; try to figure out whether he has Se or Si in the ego block or Te or Ti in the ego block and you'll figure out his type. I'm pretty sure though that he is ESTp. I don't see how he can be ESFp; I'm pretty sure though that he is not.

    He is certainly a P type. He seems far far too much Se, from what you say, that he seeks external stimulation to be Si ego type.
    I agree he's not J. But why do you definitely think he's an STP? On that front, I will only say there is no way he's an introvert, no, no, no. I have only ever dated/mated with extroverts, but most of my friends are introverts. I think I know the difference well, and he is E all the way. I guess in those pictures he could pass for I, but it's only because he is posed with me, I'm sure. In action, you would clearly see his E-ness.

    I wish I could say that my love in the photos is ESTP--that'd be so cool if he were my dual. I mean, the unbelievable goodness and rightness of our relationship would point in that direction. And he does work in a more ST career (a particular area of computer work), which I have had a hard time understanding when he comes across with a lot of F. Still, the only possible way I can imagine he's an ESTP is if he is this subtype:

    Sensory subtype (The Coordinator)

    Victor Gulenko
    Sharp, demonstrative, attacking style of behaviour. Expressive and expansive to the point of being aggressive. Feels at home in emergencies; find themselves in conflicts; can pressure people in order to rapidly introduce order. If conflicts do not occur, they can provoke some in order to then take the initiative into their own hands. Emotional and sociable, will want the attention of more than one person of the opposite sex. Women also display initiative in their acquaintances with men. This subtype is sinewy, mobile, often thin, has a well developed taste, is an epicure. In fashion are drawn to refinement and prestige.

    Meged/Ovcharov
    The sensory subtype is witty and impulsive… while seemingly concealing within them latent threats they appear unappeasable. However, they are sharp, aggressive and persevering people. Notably resourceful, they are able to manifest vindictiveness in doses that make life for their ill-wishers simply intolerable. Their character appears full of contrasts and unpredictability. Towards those whom they love they are often tender, even sentimental. Their sense of humor easily incorporates sarcasm and caustic irony. Are talkative, charming, witty, critical and sharp, love epithets and slang expressions. Their movements are fast and gait centered, When walking their slightly bent knees provide them with an ingratiating feline resemblance. Appreciate life and tend to watch over their health, periodically exercising through sports/gymnastics. Dresses tastefully and expensively. Usually provide a bright impression of a self-assured and prospering person.

    Sexual behavior
    Demonstrative and behave unpredictably. Are sexually daring and energetic; animated in interaction and possessing feelings of humor. Are sexual and diverse in both moods and erotic reactions. Strongly emotional, are inclined to ignore the feelings and attitudes of other people and to consider their interests. An imperious and demanding partner, but can be thoughtful and affectionate. Find it difficult to restrain jealousy. Require an attentive, loyal, and reliable partner, whom will remain utterly submissive to their initiative.
    Now, in fact, that describes him extremely accurately. But the sensory subtype of ESFP also could fit him. This man understands emotions well. He's French of Italian origin, and he and his family are passionate to the maximum. He is attuned to everything I'm feeling, and he expresses his own feelings ... although I will say that the paragraph above about sexual style accords 100 percent with his approach and so that is one area where he worries--i.e., he thinks he is too much of a brute and is concerned that he loses the capacity to consider his partner's feelings in that arena. It has caused him big problems in past relationships. It's no issue for me, lol; his style suits me well (enough said).

    However, all the men I've been with in the past were T's. This one seems so much more F.

    I'm still inclined to say he's my semi-dual. I'd be happy enough with that, and regardless of whatever types we are in theory, in practice he and I are both absolutely not going to let go now that we've found each other. We both feel as if we've been looking for the other all our lives. Within a few days of meeting, we just could not imagine not being together. There's a sense of "How could I possibly meet someone better for me?" And the answer is, "I don't think I could. This is what I want and need." And even though he and I are quite different people, somehow we can tell each other absolutely anything with no barriers and no feeling that to be open to each other could bring harm.

    I'll consider what you were saying about the Se/Si and Te/Ti stuff.
    Last edited by golden; 09-09-2010 at 04:21 PM.

  28. #28
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmm. I'm starting to see why you would VI my guy as STP. I looked at some photos of SFPs and, wow, no resemblance. He just doesn't have that softness or pliability. The keywords for him are some mixed bag of aggression, outgoingness, and passion. Maybe he does differ a lot from F. When I met him he was super-aggressive, and I did not know how that was supposed to work for me, lol. We are both really grateful we took the time to get to know each other despite what seemed at first like an unlikely pairing. And it was a while before he suddenly became very tender with me. I remarked on it with a bit of shock: "Hey, you're tender!"

    Thinking aloud ... my father was an F, and he was very soft. His father was, by contrast, a tough-as-nails entrepreneur, and that is the person my guy reminds me of in the Imago sense.

  29. #29
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmm, I was leaning EIE from the descriptions but the pics make me think IEI.

    Your man seems logical and rational, maybe LSI, LIE, or LSE. Outside chance of EIE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  30. #30
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks for the input, Gilly.

    I am pretty much just going with IEI now for myself, as it seems clear to me. I've always typed as INFP, and having seen the subtype descriptions helps me understand, for example, the differences between myself and my INFP/IEI best friend, who fits the other subtype. Or having tchaud suggest EIE as a dual type for me--that also seems like a correct fit and sheds light on things.

    As for my guy ... he is complex, and I'm still learning about Socionics--there's my disclaimer. And I didn't provide much info about him. But I don't see him as any type with NT in the middle, in MBTI parlance. He does work in an area of computer science, but it tends to make him unhappy because he'd rather be dealing with people more directly. To me he seems so not N and so very S.

    LSI, LIE, or LSE, you suggest. Hm.

    Let's see. LSI = ISTJ. I read the description. Doesn't fit. First, he's not introverted. I don't see this at all. I don't think I've ever dated anyone of this type, nor would I want to.

    LIE = ENTJ. I dated one, my supervisor. Total disaster. Yes, that earlier guy worked in computer science, but very much as a "pioneer," as the type is called on Socionics.com. Very rational, very awful to me from day one, but he was good-looking and I was young and naive and had zero self-confidence to start with, and so I accepted a relationship that amounted to emotional abuse. If my man in these photos is ENTJ, I'll eat my big toe--I don't see it. Perhaps it's backassward to overconsider the interaction between us, but I don't see how this could possibly be. He doesn't fit the descriptions, and the relationship does not smack of supervision in either direction. We respect each other a lot. It's sort of the opposite from my ENTJ fiasco. This man makes me feel incredibly good about myself and supported, in part through what he does and says, but more just by existing, somehow.

    LSE = ESTJ. That's my ex-husband's type; he is literally a director by profession. My boyfriend doesn't fit the ESTJ descriptions. And these two men are quite different. I see some commonalities, but ... no. What occurs between me and this man is nothing like relations with my ex ever were--talk about a breath of fresh air. I still have dealings with my ex, and my boyfriend knows most of the details and cannot make head nor tail of what on earth my ex is thinking or doing. I don't think it's just because he loves me, but because he truly leads his life differently. He particularly doesn't understand why my ex needs to control EVERYTHING and why everything is closed-ended for him. He doesn't see why my ex was unable to support my own needs and dreams. He doesn't see why my ex was and is emotionally cold to me. He doesn't see why my ex is such a traditionalist and was so into appearing as the "perfect happy family," until one day, we suddenly weren't, finis.

    I did consider EIE for my fella--he has some of those qualities for sure. But if he is any kind of EIE, I'd probably say it could be a dual type for him as it looks like it could be for me. EIE-ness is not his primary mode of being, more like something that comes out here and there and that he enjoys.

    I would say my beau is ESFP, ESFJ (prob not), or ESTP. Possible EIE stuff going on, but I've also dated an EIE and again say they're just really, really different.

    I guess I've dated a lot of men, lol.
    Last edited by golden; 09-09-2010 at 08:38 PM.

  31. #31
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmmm, well I wouldn't discount a type based on his dissimilarity to another person/people; types can manifest in drastically different forms, especially when there are differences in nationality, subtype, Enneagram type and instinct, upbringing, life experience...the list goes on. What matters really is which type fits him the best, rather than which type he fits, if that makes any sense.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  32. #32
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    To be honest, though, VI is pretty useless unless you can see the person's eyes. Windows to the soul and all that.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  33. #33
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Hmmm, well I wouldn't discount a type based on his dissimilarity to another person/people; types can manifest in drastically different forms, especially when there are differences in nationality, subtype, Enneagram type and instinct, upbringing, life experience...the list goes on. What matters really is which type fits him the best, rather than which type he fits, if that makes any sense.
    Yeah.

    On the one hand, let's just say it's the best relationship I've ever had by far, so of course I'll go with it, type schmype.

    But on the other, you know, I'm not a little kid here, and I've been burned by bad relationships, and so has he. Any understanding I can get--as long as it doesn't overrule my personal observations--is probably for the good.

    As I was saying to someone earlier today, I don't see Socionics typing as some kind of substitute for or shortcut to actually developing relationship skills and behaving maturely, etc. People like to say "relationships take work," and I have always agreed in the abstract but deep down wondered what that really means. I think I'm beginning to see what that work consists of, and it isn't easy. I don't believe in magic wands that can be waved over someone to make it all suddenly perfect.

    But better to start out with a relationship worth working on than one that--like my marriage--shouldn't be saved even if technically it can be. What I see in my current relationship is that together we seem to have the ability to grow and to truly support each other. That's worth keeping. And to me, keeping it means being willing to be responsible for myself and my own shit, and open to understanding his shit. Sooooo romantic, lol!

    Removing photos now ...
    Last edited by golden; 09-10-2010 at 04:17 AM.

  34. #34
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    If possible, would you please provide a side view picture of him, from the shoulder's up. I want to be sure that my typings are accurate.

    Also, Fe is activation function in ESTp; it could just be that your man is ESTp and you're activating his Fe function, so he comes off as more "emotional" then he ordinarily would be.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-10-2010 at 05:50 AM.

  35. #35
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Thanks for the input, Gilly.

    I am pretty much just going with IEI now for myself, as it seems clear to me. I've always typed as INFP, and having seen the subtype descriptions helps me understand, for example, the differences between myself and my INFP/IEI best friend, who fits the other subtype. Or having tchaud suggest EIE as a dual type for me--that also seems like a correct fit and sheds light on things.

    As for my guy ... he is complex, and I'm still learning about Socionics--there's my disclaimer. And I didn't provide much info about him. But I don't see him as any type with NT in the middle, in MBTI parlance. He does work in an area of computer science, but it tends to make him unhappy because he'd rather be dealing with people more directly. To me he seems so not N and so very S.

    LSI, LIE, or LSE, you suggest. Hm.

    Let's see. LSI = ISTJ. I read the description. Doesn't fit. First, he's not introverted. I don't see this at all. I don't think I've ever dated anyone of this type, nor would I want to.

    LIE = ENTJ. I dated one, my supervisor. Total disaster. Yes, that earlier guy worked in computer science, but very much as a "pioneer," as the type is called on Socionics.com. Very rational, very awful to me from day one, but he was good-looking and I was young and naive and had zero self-confidence to start with, and so I accepted a relationship that amounted to emotional abuse. If my man in these photos is ENTJ, I'll eat my big toe--I don't see it. Perhaps it's backassward to overconsider the interaction between us, but I don't see how this could possibly be. He doesn't fit the descriptions, and the relationship does not smack of supervision in either direction. We respect each other a lot. It's sort of the opposite from my ENTJ fiasco. This man makes me feel incredibly good about myself and supported, in part through what he does and says, but more just by existing, somehow.

    LSE = ESTJ. That's my ex-husband's type; he is literally a director by profession. My boyfriend doesn't fit the ESTJ descriptions. And these two men are quite different. I see some commonalities, but ... no. What occurs between me and this man is nothing like relations with my ex ever were--talk about a breath of fresh air. I still have dealings with my ex, and my boyfriend knows most of the details and cannot make head nor tail of what on earth my ex is thinking or doing. I don't think it's just because he loves me, but because he truly leads his life differently. He particularly doesn't understand why my ex needs to control EVERYTHING and why everything is closed-ended for him. He doesn't see why my ex was unable to support my own needs and dreams. He doesn't see why my ex was and is emotionally cold to me. He doesn't see why my ex is such a traditionalist and was so into appearing as the "perfect happy family," until one day, we suddenly weren't, finis.

    I did consider EIE for my fella--he has some of those qualities for sure. But if he is any kind of EIE, I'd probably say it could be a dual type for him as it looks like it could be for me. EIE-ness is not his primary mode of being, more like something that comes out here and there and that he enjoys.

    I would say my beau is ESFP, ESFJ (prob not), or ESTP. Possible EIE stuff going on, but I've also dated an EIE and again say they're just really, really different.

    I guess I've dated a lot of men, lol.

    Having previously lived with an ESTj, I'm sure it would be easy and the behavioral signs of him possibly being one would be very apparent, because they all kind of speak and say/use the same words. It's not hard to miss one, simply, look for common word usage.

  36. #36
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Okay. I will say I can further narrow his type down by having considered the romance-styles stuff. He's clearly in the "aggressive" category, and I'm clearly in the "victim" category. He's indisputably extraverted, so that leaves ESFp and ESTp as the possibilities. To be specific, either ESFp with the sensory subtype, or ESTp with the sensory subtype.

    And I suppose it may be true, he was not emotional when I first met him. He was sharp, aggressive, and passionate, but there was zero vulnerability on his part and he showed no awareness at all of my feelings or my humanity, lol.

    I'll say a bit about how things unfolded between us. I had never met a man who was so aggressive toward me, actually, and as I was getting to know him, among my friends I just called him "this sex fiend," lol. The aggression didn't bother me, exactly--I seemed to know how to handle him. Right after I met him, he demanded that I send him an e-mail. Ha! Who does that? If I were a more logical person I would have been offended, I suppose, and part of me did wonder if maybe he was insane, but somehow his stance in the world mostly elicited my sympathy.

    So I decided that I would send him an e-mail, but rather than just say "hi" or something, I wrote him the story of my life. I just felt compelled to; it was weird. That e-mail was practically book-length, much longer even than my rambling posts here. (It's all relative. Remember, I edit books for a living--we're talking about me dealing with 600 pages at a time, so epic length is my strong point where words are concerned.)

    I told him all about my childhood, my messed-up family, my awkward years, my silly girlhood dreams, my failures, my problems, pretty much everything about me that I hide from people so I don't come off as totally pitiful. I did this thinking that I wanted him to understand who it was he had been treating so aggressively--that I am a human being, basically, someone with a heart, someone with feelings and maybe even substance. I figured once he saw all that, he would just go away and stop pursuing me, but that maybe he would think twice about being so difficult the next time he met a woman who interested him or something.

    But what happened was he read the e-mail and sincerely apologized for being aggressive toward me. He said that reading it touched him and that it was "very emotional" for him. And after that, he didn't go away, but he behaved "normally" and began to confide in me all his own problems. He believed he had found in me someone who could understand him. In his words, I am now the "only person in the world" who knows the things that he keeps bottled up inside. And I'll step out on a very short limb to say that I do understand him very well and feel completely understood in return.

    Et cetera. We fell in love very quickly, and then there came a point at which, as if someone had flipped a switch, he suddenly became able to be very, very kind, gentle, and open with me where before he had been only ... harsh, hard, selfish, and generally pessimistic.

    And it's sort of odd to me that he started off with me by showing me his worst side, and then all of his vulnerabilities came tumbling forth. Over time I have watched him interacting with so many people, and he does know how to behave and how to charm people. He'll talk to anyone and is very upbeat with them. He knows how to manipulate them and how to get his way, and he can be quite critical, but he also genuinely likes most people and likes to brighten their day. And yet I was immediately singled out for ... whatever that was. Grr.

    [photos removed]
    Last edited by golden; 09-11-2010 at 03:52 AM.

  37. #37
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Having previously lived with an ESTj, I'm sure it would be easy and the behavioral signs of him possibly being one would be very apparent, because they all kind of speak and say/use the same words. It's not hard to miss one, simply, look for common word usage.
    Regarding this, yes, and thank you. My years of human observation and relationships are not for naught.

    So of course there will be variation among individuals owing to many factors, as Gilly rightly pointed out. My ESTJ ex-husband is American, and my boyfriend is French. Vocabulary commonalities in this case can be tricky. But ... one big, big difference is that the ESTJ ex could never be heard uttering a curse word. He is Mr. Nice Guy, clean and conservative. When he wants something done, he tends to make decisions unilaterally without consulting people--that's one of his major flaws, and it's not just something he did with me. His strengths are in building organizations, his dreams lie in building a "traditional family," and he cares very much about his public image. His goal is stability. When he takes a risk, it is always fully calculated.

    My ES?P boyfriend, by contrast, curses freely. He is Mr. Aggressively Charming. When he wants something done, he applies pressure directly to people to make them do things. He can generate conflict this way and hold lasting grudges when it doesn't work out well--those are two of his major flaws, and he has not done those things to me per se. Some of his strengths lie in thinking up new ventures, and he relies on enlisting other people to help get them executed. His dreams I'm still uncovering, but they seem more in the vein of building his own life his own way. He apparently doesn't give a damn what other people think in that sense. His goal--don't know yet. I do know that adventure matters much more to him than stability does. He takes big personal risks not knowing where he will land. (In business he is more cautious.)

    They both are people pleasers, they both are lightly athletic, they both are proud, they both drink a lot of juice and watch their health carefully. Both of them are strong types and are good at being in charge. Neither of them is much good at envisioning the distant future, but I am, and a key difference is that whereas my ex-husband could not accept my input regarding long-range consequences of current decisions, my boyfriend does so readily. Neither of them likes to be vulnerable, but my ex could not show me his vulnerability or I could not perceive it properly, whereas I know just where at least some of my boyfriend's weak spots are and can address them.
    Last edited by golden; 09-10-2010 at 09:45 AM.

  38. #38
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hum. Well I can see SLE, I suppose, and Se ego is a safe bet I think, but he seems oddly rational to me, though that does tend to happen with age sometimes, I think. I'd ask for a younger pic, but I'd rather not push it; you seem somewhat cautious.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  39. #39
    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Several stories high
    TIM
    EIE prob 6
    Posts
    2,969
    Mentioned
    106 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Hum. Well I can see SLE, I suppose, and Se ego is a safe bet I think, but he seems oddly rational to me, though that does tend to happen with age sometimes, I think. I'd ask for a younger pic, but I'd rather not push it; you seem somewhat cautious.
    I don't have a younger pic, but I do have some photos of him posing (a) like a rock star and (b) pretending to be gay. I have seen younger pix and he looked a lot different. So what is going on with this guy? I put it to him, and he says that he thinks he is on the line between P and J--he's not sure which one would better describe him.

    In the big picture--not sure all of these things will be relevant to rationality--he spent many years hopping from one thing to another, one place to another (and isn't done yet with that pattern, not entirely), one relationship to another. He believes he has wasted a lot of his potential this way and that he needs to buckle down. He always has multiple projects going on, and he doesn't always complete them all. His attitude toward life is a bit childlike. He feels like it has taken him too long to grow up. He worries he is still not grown up. I see that doesn't come across in the photos, and I'm not sure why. In motion he is sort of a big, intense, ornery little boy. (If you want, I have a link to a video he's in, where he acts this way.)

    His solution to not letting chaos take over in his home is by having fewer things. We're planning to live together permanently in the next few months (right now we're apart geographically, long story, we met by chance), and my sense is that for us to have a functional household, we'll have to work together to come up with some kind of organization system--I'm also more J than I used to be. But I don't think we'll be able to figure it out all by ourselves, so I may hire a friend who's an expert in home organization to help us. I think we'll both be able to stick to that, more or less, but only if we choose to have it imposed on us. My observation of when we cohabitated was that he can muster almost enough J for himself, but not for two. He tends to place aesthetics above organization.

    (My ESTJ ex is someone who seemed 40 when he was 17, always extremely mature and reliable. He started his lifelong career path with no deviation from it by the time he was 18. He's the classic workaholic, and he also always has multiple projects and sometimes has a hard time finishing them--because he's overextended--but he does finish. He has charts and schedules everywhere. He places organization before aesthetics. He never really "lets go"--he's always in control of himself.)

    Anyway, I'd also say that I've had a lot of European friends, co-workers, and even roommates, and that collectively they seem to value J more than Americans do. My boyfriend seems to have struggled a lot with this--with fitting into what is expected of him in terms of being responsible and mature. He says a lot of people in France just think he's weird because he hasn't led a "normal" life. He puts a lot of effort into trying to fit in and feels more relaxed in the United States, because here he finds that things are more open-ended. Career switching, starting over, moving around, etc.--although we have plenty of suburbanites who live by the straight-and-narrow, his chaotic pattern is not quite as odd here.

    One of the big killers (there were many, though) in his last major relationship was that he hates routine, and his partner always required that he do everything the same way at the same time. Everything he did began to feel like an obligation and duty to him, and he cannot live that way.

    But for a possible P, I still think he can muster up a good bit of J. And on the Socionics front, I would certainly have to type him as ESFJ over ESTJ. That would make me his supervisor.

    Socionics is complicated, man. My interpretation is still that my guy is SLE or or SEE (I can't overlook something as instinctual and essential as his aggressor stuff), and that in the dual-typing approach he could be one of the EJ's secondarily.
    Last edited by golden; 09-10-2010 at 07:57 PM.

  40. #40
    Tricky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Your boyfriend looks ESTJ to me. I have a friend who has that gaze, and I have typed him ESTJ.

    Edit: In the third pic he looks the most Beta ST.
    Last edited by Tricky; 01-29-2014 at 05:19 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •