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Thread: Examples of possible famous/celebrity ILEs-ENTps

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    Default Examples of possible famous/celebrity ILEs-ENTps

    I put these lists together for my own amusement, but if anyone disagrees, I can make the case for these typings.


    Caligula, Emperor of Rome 37-41 (or perhaps ESTp)



    Charles Darwin




    Nikola Tesla



    Karl Marx




    Mao Zedong (but perhaps ESTp)



    Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Darwin is actually cited in Jung's psychological type as the clear-cut example of Extraverted Thinking type.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    So -- ENTj or ESTj for Darwin, you think?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    So -- ENTj or ESTj for Darwin, you think?
    My personal take on Darwin is coincident with yours, that is from his works/his life I'd type him as ENTp; however, since the father of the functional theory typed him as extraverted thinker, I doubt my own judgement in this case.

    If I were to choose between ESTj and ENTj, he'd be a clear-cut ENTj, however.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Here another really famous ENTp:


    John Maynard Keynes
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Ted Turner
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Ted Turner
    ENTJ
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    says who
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    says who
    Ego
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Anton LaVey?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Steve Vai.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Yeah I also thought of Keynes.

    Kwame Nkrumah, first leader of independent Ghana

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Alan Kay, computer pioneer.
    Father of Smalltalk, the first truly object-oriented langage.

    Some quotes:
    "The real romance is out ahead and yet to come. The computer revolution hasn't started yet. Don't be misled by the enormous flow of money into bad defacto standards for unsophisticated buyers using poor adaptations of incomplete ideas."

    "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."

    ENTp

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    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Weird Al Yankovic

    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Weird Al Yankovic

    OMG YES!!!!
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Jon Stewart
    Dave Chappelle
    Bob Dylan
    George Carlin
    Richard Pryor
    Babe Ruth
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Caligula, Emperor of Rome 37-41
    Mao Zedong (but perhaps ESTp)
    Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
    Not at all. Being a dictator is not in the nature of ENTp. In fact, ENTp likes intellectual competition ( - relevant) but hates force competition ( - relevant), and for this reason often loses political battles but is very often found in science or high-tech sphere.

    These three (Caligula, Mao, Mobutu) were most probably ISTj. Mao was a copy of Stalin in his behavior, communication style and, what is even more important, consequences of his rule. The style of their works is absolutely not characteristic to ENTp. ENTP likes the game of associations, he/she very freely jumps from one idea to a different. Dictators like Mao or Stalin neither like such style nor use it in their works. Their style is absolutely opposite and really boring: they repeat, repeat, repeat in slightly different ways the same thought until it rings in the reader's head like a bell.

    Here is my list of famous ENTp people:

    www.socioniko.net/en/celebr/il-cel.html

    (the letters BK at this page mean alternative versions of Ukrainian socionists Alexander Boukalov and Olga Karpenko).
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

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    i was hoping to claim caligula as intj. self-deification, his "systematic concept of imperial power", and his disdain for tradition make it so hard not to love him.

    "Caligula's bizarre behavior demonstrates what can happen when absolute power is combined with a total lack of responsibility and respect for others."
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    I'm basing my typing of Caligula on a deep knowledge of his behavior as described by ancient authors and even by an eyewitness, not on a superficial conclusion such as dictator=ISTj.

    Caligula was not a "everyone must follow my rules" ISTj kind of dictator, like Stalin; he was a guy whose "impulsive ideas shifted like a weather-cock" as Tacitus wrote in Agricola.

    As far as Roman emperors go, Diocletian is a likely ISTj. Not Caligula.

    I don't think Mao or Mobutu were the same kind of dictators such as Stalin or Saddam Hussein, especially not Mobutu. Li Zhisui, Mao's personal doctor, wrote a book called The Private Life of Chairman Mao; I don't think that the person described there is an ISTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    i was hoping to claim caligula as intj. self-deification, his "systematic concept of imperial power", and his disdain for tradition make it so hard not to love him.

    "Caligula's bizarre behavior demonstrates what can happen when absolute power is combined with a total lack of responsibility and respect for others."
    Indeed.

    Is that ISTj?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    @Dmitri Lytov. Interesting that you put Robert Sheckley as an ENTp. Based solely on his writing I would guess that too, but it was some years now since I read any of his works. For the same reason I would think that Douglas Adams is also an ENTp. Does "BK" mean that both Boukalov and Karpenko think that Sheckley is an INTp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
    i was hoping to claim caligula as intj. self-deification, his "systematic concept of imperial power", and his disdain for tradition make it so hard not to love him.

    "Caligula's bizarre behavior demonstrates what can happen when absolute power is combined with a total lack of responsibility and respect for others."
    Indeed.

    Is that ISTj?
    no, i associate tradition, maintenance, and responsibility with istj. i would be surprised to hear an istj claim to be god. maybe that is just me.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    It was a rhetorical question, I agree with you as my typing of Caligula as ENTp shows.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Expat, as I understand, your perception of ENTp is far from socionics, it is rather based on certain stereotypes. You perceive ENTp as a person who does "something unusual", whether it is killing a lot of people or defending ideas that seem strange to other people.

    This is untrue, because you ignore motivation of types, you judge them only by certain superficial manifestations. ENTp's motivation is very far from violence, is his anti-value, he uses it very rarely and usually or self-protection, not for spreading and imposing his/her power on other people. ENTp's thinking is scientific, power games are not interesting to this type.

    Since you use automatic translators, I suggest you to read this very detailed description of ENTp:

    www.socioniko.net/ru/gazeta/2003-19/donkey.html

    Similarly, ISTj is obedient and "logical" just as long as he/she is on the lower levels of the social hierarchy. We should not forget that is both his/her value and his/her strong trait. Extension of his power is his super-idea; however, being a reserved and inertial person, he spends a lot of time for moving upwards. When he/she finally gets power, he/she begins to play very complicated (due to his strong ) games with his opponents, deceiving them and putting the cat among the pigeons. I'd suggest that you read Edward Radzinsky's book "Stalin", Radzinsky gives very detailed psychological description of such power games, similar to those played by Mao Zedong, Saddam Hussein and other dictators.

    Finally, I do not think that ISTj = dictator or dictator = ISTj. If you studied political history, you known there are various types of dictatorship and therefore various psychological types thyat suit for such different roles. However, too often dictators are types with the functions , and/or as values (most often from the 2nd Quadra).
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

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    Thank you for the link, I'll read it.

    I do not dispute the typings of Stalin or Saddam Hussein as ISTj, so I don't really see the point of that part of the argument; what I do dispute is the implication that Caligula had the same kind of motivations, in fact, there is no parallel at all between the rises of Stalin and Caligula to power.

    Mao and Mobutu are more complicated.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Maybe Caligula was an ESTp (), but not ENTp in any way.
    His lust for carnal pleasures was well-known, he even had sex with his sister. Such manifestations are typical for the Se function (which was noticed even by Jung in his Psychological Types, not only by socionists).
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    Actually my original, "instinctive" typing for Caligula was ESTp, but then I thought that his inclination for impulsive ideas and original, wacky ways of doing things suggested strong .
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    In fact, quick, spontaneous and flexible reaction, whether you call it "ideas" or "behavior", is peculiar to all the four EP types, it is their inborn trait. This trait may "fade" due to socialization, or in case of long-time stresses, but it can be easily awaken again, when stimulated properly.

    However, spontaneity of EP types manifests differently for N and S types. ENp types tend to be curious, they spread their attention on too many things altogether and for this reason may look distracted and even "introverted". ESp types tend to attack too many material objectives, strive for winning too many attractive things (whether it may be power, money, or attention of attractive representatives of the opposite sex).
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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    Gotta love Rocky!

    Jon Stewart ESTj or even ESFj (ESTp ?)
    Dave Chappelle Maybe! ExTp
    Bob Dylan INTp (INFp ?)
    George Carlin ISTj !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Richard Pryor ESFp
    Babe Ruth xSxp


    Don't worry Rocky, I still want to have your babies!

    What about Snoop Doggy Dogg!? I think he could be ENTp!
    I already talked about Bob Dylan, here.

    And I know a lot of people think Ruth was a Sensor. Not true. What I know about ESxPs is that they are disgusted by people who aren't cleanly, don't shower, etc... Yet it was known that, for instance, Ruth wouldn't change his underwear every week. Other players would make fun of him, telling him that he smelt bad, and so on. I don't think I've ever met an ESxP who would allow that to happen. That's just one little thing about him, though. Ruth also had problems with his weight, which are along the same lines of not keeping healthy.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    Then ask Kraus.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    Does "BK" mean that both Boukalov and Karpenko think that Sheckley is an INTp?
    What I find most interesting is the designation on Socioniko.net of Niels Bohr as ENTP, where it says "BK: ISFp."

    Does this imply that duals are so close that sometimes they're indistinguishable? I happen to think that may be true, by the way, but I don't know how standard a notion it is in Socionics.

    Of course, if it's true, then it makes the notion of typing much harder. Say a person demonstrates clear NT tendencies. Suppose that there's a lot of evidence that the person is I and an "irrational" (P) type. Suppose we've established all those things pretty much without doubt. That person may still not be an INTp, because the person may be an ISFp-ENTp...displaying the sum of I+N+T+p, but with the Ip quality coming from their ISFp side rather than from their NT side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan
    What I find most interesting is the designation on Socioniko.net of Niels Bohr as ENTP, where it says "BK: ISFp."

    Does this imply that duals are so close that sometimes they're indistinguishable?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Come on now... no two types are really that similar. And duals are *almost* opposites.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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    George Carlin is definately an ENTp.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

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