Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Socionics Clubs and Gender Roles - Random Speculation

  1. #1
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,099
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Socionics Clubs and Gender Roles - Random Speculation

    It has come to my attention that gender roles, or seperating genders into groups may in part be the result of aristocratic thinking. This can be seen in phrases like "Man's Common Sense Vs Women's Intuition" Which gives men as a group Sensing qualities and gives women as a group Intuitive qualities. It can also be seen in the fact that although the seperation of types should be 50/50 for each dichotomy, for logic/ethics the reported average is more like 60% men/40% women for logic and the reverse for ethics.

    When you think of someone who is exceptionally manly, you think of a healthy male ST, who is strong and sharp, but not always good with emotions or spiritual awareness. When you think of someone who is exceptionally womanly, you think of a healthy female NF, who although frail and sensitive can be a great spiritual and emotional upbringer for her children. Some Male ST's and Female NF's can be seen encouraging their sex to act more like them, if only subtly. Democratic types (NTs and SFs) of either sex are not likely to feel much affected by these roles, because they qualify enough (halfway) in their role to be comfortable, but not enough to be proud or think anything more of their role. But when it comes to Male NF's and Female ST's, you see a lot more cases of gender confusion, because they do feel connected with these roles, but often it's the opposite role. I also notice there is a small increase in the proportion of gay/bi NF's and lesbian/bi ST's.

    This is all just speculation and I'm not saying saying all gays are either humanitarians or pragmatists, but these have just been some of my observations while studying clubs.

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Crispy; 08-23-2010 at 04:01 AM.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  2. #2
    I'm a Ti-Te! Skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    US
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    522
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Perhaps you could also say that (NT) N 1st function males are further down the spectrum than T 1st function.

    Of course that's probably too specific, and even OP is a bit too specific. I do agree that it does apply to some extent however; there are lots of people who are just not psychologically compatible with the gender roles prescribed by their culture and what better way to justify it than a system designed to describe personalities.

  3. #3
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,635
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't know. In my country, women are stereotipied as SF, not NF. There's definitely no general picture of women being "good at spirituality". They're not considered frail at all, actually I think there's a slight hint of matriarchality, since women are automatically / culturally supposed to managed their boyfriend's / husband money / life. Men are stereotypied as being good at maths, absent-minded but clever, good at reading maps, disorderly but hard-working - perhaps that could be NT.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  4. #4
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think male Fs, female Ts, should have somewhat of their own category, if were talking categories.

  5. #5
    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    5,939
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    7 Thread(s)

    Default

    poli your avatar is cracking me the fuck up

  6. #6
    Creepy-male

    Default

    I like the T and F things poli said.... ahh it feels like expat is watching me......

    But I see it like

    ST => Typical Man
    SF => Typical Woman/Child
    NT => Wise Man
    NF => Wise Woman/Child

    Not perfect but then let's consider american stereotypes.......

    xSFj => Typical Woman
    ESTx => Typical Man
    xSTp => Cool Teenager Male
    INTx => Nerd Male
    ESxp => Celebrity

  7. #7
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,099
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't know. In my country, women are stereotipied as SF, not NF. There's definitely no general picture of women being "good at spirituality". They're not considered frail at all, actually I think there's a slight hint of matriarchality, since women are automatically / culturally supposed to managed their boyfriend's / husband money / life. Men are stereotypied as being good at maths, absent-minded but clever, good at reading maps, disorderly but hard-working - perhaps that could be NT.
    Could be. Italy sounds awesome
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  8. #8
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,966
    Mentioned
    568 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't know. In my country, women are stereotipied as SF, not NF. There's definitely no general picture of women being "good at spirituality". They're not considered frail at all, actually I think there's a slight hint of matriarchality, since women are automatically / culturally supposed to managed their boyfriend's / husband money / life. Men are stereotypied as being good at maths, absent-minded but clever, good at reading maps, disorderly but hard-working - perhaps that could be NT.
    Two of the coolest girls I've ever met in my life were Italians, one a SEI girl and the other a ESE girl. SEI girl spoke mandarin too and lived in China for sometimes so we kinda of connected on that. Unfortunately SEI girl was married and ESE girl was like going back to Rome the next day, well at least we partied our asses off.

    Italian girls are pretty much awesome.

  9. #9
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,629
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    It's making me hot and sweaty. Where? EVERYWHERE.
    ahahahaha

    shit i should get back to work cos my coworker just asked me what i was giggling about over here.

    edit: yes, i know who that is. yes, i really have been lurking THAT long. :redface:

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    NFs - the sensitive and sexy men and women who dominate Japanese anime/manga culture in bishounen and bishoujo titles or lolis.
    i wish i had the slightest clue what this meant.

  10. #10
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I miss you Expat :"|

    All SF men are tough as nails.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  11. #11
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,629
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    In anime/manga culture, beautiful boys tend to be called bishounen and beautiful (not slutty) girls are sometimes called bishoujo. Lolis are the young, beautiful girls (like 13 and younger) who have this innocence about them
    NFs are way too idealized. i wish i was some beautiful waif lmao. and psychic, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by aixelsyd View Post
    and are often the victim of 2-d child porn because apparently pedophilia related urges are not that uncommon amongst older teens, young adults, and middle aged and older men.
    :frown:

    but thanks for answering.

  12. #12
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    I miss you Expat :"|

    All SF men are tough as nails.

  13. #13
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I hate how americans have such a hot and cold and either or thinking.

    Why don't you get it through that nigger skull of yours (yes I said nigger for comic relief) that the people who are really ahead in life are the ones that are compassionate and empathetic. You don't have to choose one or the other. You can really care, and be loving- and also have a great job, and external success. You don't have to be some antisocial loser just because you have a heart. That's just some stereotype you're buying into.

    In fact, the people who say "Nobody cares" are almost always the people who don't have anything to show. It's not if somebody cares or not, it's you make other people care by your caring, and only people who care get that.

    Why can't you look at a man and see that he's strong and tough, as well as sensitive and sharp. Why do you think you have to trade in 'sharpness' for your ability to feel. That's not true at all. I'm sharp and I'm sweet. Just because I'm sensitive and talk about my feelings, doesn't make me weak. My emotions give me power. You're judging people inaccurately. You don't even really know them, and you're analyzing them from a distance. It's okay...I can certainly see why you would do that. But why? Just let it go. Don't you think this is all just a little adolescentile?

  14. #14
    Crispy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,099
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you believe yourself to be sharp and sweet and strong and spiritually aware at the same time, you are probably a self actualized individual (read: healthy) who doesn't carry very prominent weaknesses. All generally healthy individuals will not seem dull or cold or weak or spiritually unaware because they are well rounded. If you have achieved this, then congratulations, you are on the path towards happily ever after. All of my OP was about the population at large, which is why stereotypes were necessary. Obviously my writing still carries a coldness to it
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

  15. #15
    Creepy-male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I hate how americans have such a hot and cold and either or thinking.
    Lol that's totally not the style of american thinking.... (ah fuck I said totally..... ahhh totally gf dirl....... afskihjaklf2%@!%). Anyways I understand what you mean reading the context of the rest of this, but I'd actually consider myself to be more logical and a big fan of logical 1/0's and dicotohmy thinking, this characteristic though I don't feel like is shared by the rest of mainstream american society. In general I think americans are much more of a sensory/experience culture than an actual thought provoking/mental culture. I'd say germany is a very mental culture, as is india, and some asain countries like japan and so forth -- each mental in their different ways of course, but mental none the less. Probably other's but I'm not completely versed in world culture.

    Btw @ FDG I think italians are great... they are also very sensory/experience based from what I've heard (perhaps this is a stereotype though), but in a much different way than america.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Why don't you get it through that nigger skull of yours (yes I said nigger for comic relief) that the people who are really ahead in life are the ones that are compassionate and empathetic. You don't have to choose one or the other. You can really care, and be loving- and also have a great job, and external success. You don't have to be some antisocial loser just because you have a heart. That's just some stereotype you're buying into.

    Why can't you look at a man and see that he's strong and tough, as well as sensitive and sharp. Why do you think you have to trade in 'sharpness' for your ability to feel. That's not true at all. I'm sharp and I'm sweet. Just because I'm sensitive and talk about my feelings, doesn't make me weak. My emotions give me power. You're judging people inaccurately. You don't even really know them, and you're analyzing them from a distance. It's okay...I can certainly see why you would do that. But why? Just let it go. Don't you think this is all just a little adolescentile?
    Yea I hate this stereotype too, it reminds me of this roommate I had, an ISTj or ESTj.... he was really mainstream. At that time I started becoming interested in composing music, I had done it before, as I was in Jazz Band, could improv on the trumpet and would mess around writing arrangements for Big Band. Anyways now I was interesting in writing things more moody/sensual/emotional/moving/sweeping/big orchestra/classical.... like movie soundtrack stuff. I remember writing this stuff and he would always criticize me and call me gay.... gah it was really hard to just even fuck around with sounds and try to get a vibe or anything, because the moment anything had any emotional power what so ever, it was automatically criticized, and I'd always loose heart and never be able to mold that into anything meaningful to me. It frustrated me so much I finally asked him to tell me what kind of stuff he liked.... I listened to it, it had emotional power..... so I remember thinking what is it about what I'm writing that is so horrible.... can he give me constructive advice.... he couldn't besides just awkwardly say he hated it. Lol I never figured it out, it was almost as if he was insecure about his feelings and just chose music to listen to on the basis of it's social status or critical acclaim, and then learned to only allow the music to have an emotional effect on him if it was socially acceptable first. Weird fucking guy....

    But I have to admit after realizing this, I started to develop ways of testing the waters with people. Instead of just unload my my feelings on people, I would usually try to socially maneouver to get them to make the first move by pressuring them, then I once they revealed their feelings on something, I was able to work within that limited sphere to express myself... eventually once a good enough rapport was built up between us, I would tactifully try to expand this sphere to include more room for expression. If I sense reluctance on trying to expand, I'd try another route. Usually this kind of social art works well once practiced. Before this I always defenseless against people slamming me like my roommate did. I'd just have to sit there dumb and awkward being like "Oh.... ummmm I like it, you hate it....... uhhhhh ok".

    ^^^ btw I don't do what I said in the 2nd paragraph on this forum, partly because I don't care that much at preserving harmony on here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •