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Thread: ILEs-ENTps and intimacy

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    Default ILEs-ENTps and intimacy

    ILEs, are you afraid of intimacy?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I kind of wonder. I know one ILE who views his sexuality as a "trap" but is very open about himself, and yet another ILE who is the opposite, in being very sexual, but more cagey when it comes to emotional intimacy (her self-report, I've never noticed to be honest).

    *watches thread like a hawk*

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    When ILEs say that emotions are bad, it makes me sad.
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    I'm wondering about this question too.

    From definitions it would seem that ILEs would be very into showing lovey-dovey emotions but wont see importance of feeling or forming an actual bond with the significant other. Ok obviously the way i said it is biased, sorry. I'll try again: ILEs would be more into being demonstrative of loving emotions, and think forming a bond is ridiculous.


    Does this hold true for u, ILEs?
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    bump
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    Are you?

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    My ILE friend told me that she is like a child in the bedroom and she thinks that I am the same way because of our Ne. We wait to be approached, gently touched, and teased (all a part of what Si does) before we can be comfortable with becoming more sexually open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I'm wondering about this question too.

    From definitions it would seem that ILEs would be very into showing lovey-dovey emotions but wont see importance of feeling or forming an actual bond with the significant other. Ok obviously the way i said it is biased, sorry. I'll try again: ILEs would be more into being demonstrative of loving emotions, and think forming a bond is ridiculous.


    Does this hold true for u, ILEs?
    I don't think that forming bonds is ridiculous, but I don't really notice or pay attention to that happening. It either happens without me noticing or it doesn't happen at all. I'm also not to worried about the possibility of breaking those bonds if necessary.

    As for the intimacy issue, I've been pretty open about expressing my discomfort with intimacy. I find it awkward. If I could make an analogy about it, it's like someone handing you something fragile and brittle that has no practical use but is extremely valuable. I just kind of sit there wondering what to do with it, being horrified that I might break it and wondering why in god's name someone would give me that. I'm actually more comfortable throwing it on the ground so it shatters, then I don't have to worry about when I'll destroy it and what that will mean.

    I much prefer light-hearted playfulness. Feelings go untalked about and are mostly understood by actions rather than words. Expression of affection comes in generalized statements "I like spending time with you," "You're my favourite," casual "I love yous". Heart-felt declarations will send me packing almost certainly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Heart-felt declarations will send me packing almost certainly.
    What is a heart-felt declaration in your eyes?
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    Picture yourself pouring your heart out to me in a way that is all about me, your feelings for me, etc. You have that glow in your eyes that says you want to put your arms around me tenderly and hold me forever. Then picture that speech wrapping around me and choking me to death. Pretty much that.
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    What if I want to hold someone for a while, but not forever. Is that ok?

    Forever would get uncomfortable, but I like the feeling of security when I hold somebody, like they're mine and I'm theirs.
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    You can hold me as long as you put the puppy dog eyes away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    You can hold me as long as you put the puppy dog eyes away.
    No no, it will be a very secure hug. No use of paws. (:
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    Ok, brotha, let's hug it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    I much prefer light-hearted playfulness. Feelings go untalked about and are mostly understood by actions rather than words. Expression of affection comes in generalized statements "I like spending time with you," "You're my favourite," casual "I love yous". Heart-felt declarations will send me packing almost certainly.
    yeah. this reminds me of how my SEI friend is. But actually I'm a lot like that too. No heart-felt declarations but sometimes I use metaphor. Silent staring can also be good. Laughter is the best. Usually if my feelings are deep, words are insufficient anyway.

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    Yeah, I think you're right that it's important to distinguish between sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy. For example, I'm uncomfortable with emotional intimacy, but very open and comfortable with my sexuality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero
    I much prefer light-hearted playfulness. Feelings go untalked about and are mostly understood by actions rather than words. Expression of affection comes in generalized statements "I like spending time with you," "You're my favourite," casual "I love yous". Heart-felt declarations will send me packing almost certainly.
    This was my preferred mode of courting the ILI. I would edge in close to her and put my head on her shoulder to show that I cared about her. I would poke her and rub her head sometimes, I would be as direct as I could in an indirect manner. I would spend all my time with her and try to do things for her. Of course, this was to no avail.

    I need a dual.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    Hmm but what is emotional intimacy. Can you give an example of it, I mean two cases when one is easy with it and when he/she is not, what actually happens?
    Emotional intimacy is something more intangible. It's the emotional intensity. I don't know if passion is necessarily the right word, but it's that deep attachment. Soul-searing closeness. You can't really keep an objective or emotional distance from it, it sort of demands an emotional response.
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    I am with Vero on this one, that kind of no-holds barred emotionality where they share WAY TOO MUCH OF HOW THEY'RE FEELING than is comfortable in an emotional way that is just toxic and overwhelming.

    That said I don't think that only sharing feelings through generalised statements is really lack of intimacy, it's just Fe's way of sharing things.

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    Well, sharing too much can be scary for other people. I wouldn't want to impose EVERYTHING I HAVE EVER FELT FOR YOU AND EVERYTHING I PLAN ON FEELING. That is just overbearing.

    I mean, i think actions speak louder than words.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Picture yourself pouring your heart out to me in a way that is all about me, your feelings for me, etc. You have that glow in your eyes that says you want to put your arms around me tenderly and hold me forever. Then picture that speech wrapping around me and choking me to death. Pretty much that.
    If I didn't get this I wouldn't feel anything for this other person.

    They have to sell it so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vero
    I much prefer light-hearted playfulness. Feelings go untalked about and are mostly understood by actions rather than words. Expression of affection comes in generalized statements "I like spending time with you," "You're my favourite," casual "I love yous". Heart-felt declarations will send me packing almost certainly.
    I wouldn't respond to this at all, because I would doubt it's honesty. I hear stuff like this constantly from friends, girls, guys, whatever. People just say this sort of stuff off the cuff. I always separate the feeling I show to someone I really want vs what I show to my friends.

    However I wouldn't want someone to be over the top either and proclaim their undying love for me and that I'm their soulmate and everything they've ever wanted and build a shrine in their basement... That's just creeepy... I'm the one who's supposed to do that anyways.

    But if someone doesn't make it absolutely clear to me how they feel about me, I would never respond to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    Well, sharing too much can be scary for other people. I wouldn't want to impose EVERYTHING I HAVE EVER FELT FOR YOU AND EVERYTHING I PLAN ON FEELING. That is just overbearing.

    I mean, i think actions speak louder than words.
    They do.

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    It's funny you guys are emphazising so much about actions speaking louder than words being an Fe- vs Fi- thing, but I feel that in my duality experience with an SLI most was truly communicated via action as well (as opposed to words). It was like there was this whole language underneath what was being said that conveyed itself through eye contact, gaze, body position, etc etc.

    The key difference i'm seeing though was in the attachment that was formed (at least on my end) through these actions, whereas i'm getting from you guys that ILEs really have no concept of becoming attached in this sense. You affirm your relationship with a significant other through these sweet nothings, but there seems to be an aversion (at least from the ILE's perspective) to establishing an emotional attachment. This is something that is difficult for me to understand but i would like to.


    However i do relate to what you say about Fi ultimately involving pouring out one's heart in terms of everything they feel for the person, yes all that "gooey" stuff. It is the only way i know how to communicate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    The key difference i'm seeing though was in the attachment that was formed (at least on my end) through these actions, whereas i'm getting from you guys that ILEs really have no concept of becoming attached in this sense. You affirm your relationship with a significant other through these sweet nothings, but there seems to be an aversion (at least from the ILE's perspective) to establishing an emotional attachment. This is something that is difficult for me to understand but i would like to.
    Emotional attachment doesn't mean anything imo. You could walk into a bar, sit down and become attached to the person next to you for the rest of your life. I could love someone, they could not love me back. They can love me and I can not love them. We can love each other and it can fade due to time, conflict, circumstances, death, etc. Nothing stays the same, and everything ends, with little or no dignity.

    All you really have is making the best of what short time you have with each other if there is a mutual connection.

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    I like it when women want to have sex with me.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Emotional attachment doesn't mean anything imo. You could walk into a bar, sit down and become attached to the person next to you for the rest of your life. I could love someone, they could not love me back. They can love me and I can not love them. We can love each other and it can fade due to time, conflict, circumstances, death, etc. Nothing stays the same, and everything ends, with little or no dignity.

    All you really have is making the best of what short time you have with each other if there is a mutual connection.
    I find that people react to their Super-Ego elements in two ways: fear and anger. The "fear" response leads people to try to improve and strengthen themselves in the Super-Ego elements, in order to limit the pain of future failures. This is usually fruitless of course, as there are limits to how well we can develop our Super-Ego. People engaging the "fear" response do usually acknowledge the objective worth of the Super-Ego elements, and feel some degree of shame or sadness for not being able to use them properly.

    The "anger" response, on the other hand, leads people to reject the Super-Ego elements entirely, in an attempt to avoid the pain of future failures altogether. This leads to a more bitter, jaded viewpoint which rejects the idea that these elements have much if any objective worth at all. As should be obvious, this is the less healthy response.

    For my part, I know several ILEs in person who, despite not being very good at it, are quite emotionally intimate with and attached to their spouses/significant others, or at least desire to be so. They do tend to limit their emotional intimacy with the majority of people, however -- the level of trust that must be attained before they open up emotionally is higher than average.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I like it when women want to have sex with me.
    If you were an ILE GIRL, we would see how the men would respond.

    We would roleplay as Dracula and the Mummy. Lots of unwrapping, etc. I would just wear the Dracula costume because I like collars and the fangs would be for show. Biting is Se. No need for that.
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    Girl ILE / jxrtes:



    Seriously, I think she looks like me.

    I'd wear a cyborg costume, to make it kinky and progressive (cybernetic revolution) at the same time.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    :| maybe she is too old for me. I am getting no vibes from her.
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    She does look at least 35, but I don't think you're necessarily supposed to get "dual vibes" right away. At least the feeling that the dual is a normal like-minded person.

    EDIT: or maybe she's not ILE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    She does look at least 35, but I don't think you're necessarily supposed to get "dual vibes" right away. At least the feeling that the dual is a normal like-minded person.
    no no, you know that your dual's eyes shine in the dark, and glitter surrounds them. (;

    btw, i would definitely want to see her in a cyborg costume. (:
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Girl ILE / jxrtes:



    Seriously, I think she looks like me.
    wow she looks a lot like my mom, whom I type as ILE, rather eerily similar from a longer glance

    I'd wear a cyborg costume, to make it kinky and progressive (cybernetic revolution) at the same time.
    thx for putting that mental image of my mom in my head
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I find that people react to their Super-Ego elements in two ways: fear and anger. The "fear" response leads people to try to improve and strengthen themselves in the Super-Ego elements, in order to limit the pain of future failures. This is usually fruitless of course, as there are limits to how well we can develop our Super-Ego. People engaging the "fear" response do usually acknowledge the objective worth of the Super-Ego elements, and feel some degree of shame or sadness for not being able to use them properly.

    The "anger" response, on the other hand, leads people to reject the Super-Ego elements entirely, in an attempt to avoid the pain of future failures altogether. This leads to a more bitter, jaded viewpoint which rejects the idea that these elements have much if any objective worth at all. As should be obvious, this is the less healthy response.

    For my part, I know several ILEs in person who, despite not being very good at it, are quite emotionally intimate with and attached to their spouses/significant others, or at least desire to be so. They do tend to limit their emotional intimacy with the majority of people, however -- the level of trust that must be attained before they open up emotionally is higher than average.
    I think the 4th function work in a all or nothing fashion, we don't work at it in a active fashion. I've seen ILE/SLE's devoted to their spouses/causes/whatever and other ILE/SLE totally absent of any attachment.

    Life is kinda of a crapshoot because attachments is often a matter of luck and being in the right place at the right time.

    The 4th function is evaluatory, producing and inert. When I make judgements due to this function, it's firm, very personal and often times not something that I can control. While most of the time, I use my 4th function to disengage from someone, sometimes, I have a need to engage and become close to someone in a almost necessary fashion, and when that doesn't happen I fall into depression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Emotional attachment doesn't mean anything imo. You could walk into a bar, sit down and become attached to the person next to you for the rest of your life. I could love someone, they could not love me back. They can love me and I can not love them. We can love each other and it can fade due to time, conflict, circumstances, death, etc. Nothing stays the same, and everything ends, with little or no dignity.

    All you really have is making the best of what short time you have with each other if there is a mutual connection.
    depressing and probably true and... are you ILE or SLE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    depressing and probably true and... are you ILE or SLE?
    I'm ILE I think. I definitely can get angry and explosive tho, which I think people who have met me can attest too. So sometimes maybe I will look like a SLE. These are look-alike types.

    I don't see it as depressing, but I can see how it's depression to others, it's just all the other possibilities outside of deep, long term emotional attachment which can happen.

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    The question of physical intimacy and ILE is especially interesting since their dual is SiFe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    :| maybe she is too old for me. I am getting no vibes from her.
    But do you get dual vides from this ILE?:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    I don't think that forming bonds is ridiculous, but I don't really notice or pay attention to that happening. It either happens without me noticing or it doesn't happen at all. I'm also not to worried about the possibility of breaking those bonds if necessary.

    As for the intimacy issue, I've been pretty open about expressing my discomfort with intimacy. I find it awkward. If I could make an analogy about it, it's like someone handing you something fragile and brittle that has no practical use but is extremely valuable. I just kind of sit there wondering what to do with it, being horrified that I might break it and wondering why in god's name someone would give me that. I'm actually more comfortable throwing it on the ground so it shatters, then I don't have to worry about when I'll destroy it and what that will mean.

    I much prefer light-hearted playfulness. Feelings go untalked about and are mostly understood by actions rather than words. Expression of affection comes in generalized statements "I like spending time with you," "You're my favourite," casual "I love yous". Heart-felt declarations will send me packing almost certainly.
    that's a brilliant analogy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by humblepie View Post
    that's a brilliant analogy.
    yes it really is. i remember feeling that way esp when i was younger. almost like i would wreck everything if somebody trusted me with closeness. ha

    i don't feel that way so much now though. i'm comfortable with a close intimate distance or a big wide audience-like distance, but not with middle distances. i wonder why that would change over the lifespan.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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