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Thread: Stereotypical Delta Values

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    Default Stereotypical Delta Values

    Do most Deltas agree with them? I think parts of this description obviously convey other quadras' preferences in some unique situations as well. What do you think?

    ***

    What changes occur in society during the transition to the fourth quadra? Historians or writers commonly refer to the time of this quadra's prominence as a "flowering", but this is wrong. Rather, what ensues is a stable prosperity. I think a more appropriate association is not with flowering, but with fruiting.

    "Delta" begins with its leader - the LSE ("Administrator"). There are four main tasks that he proceeds to accomplish.

    1. Decentralization of management toward something resembling a Confederation of lands (as it once was in ancient Greece - Confederations of poleis). Management should be horizontal rather than follow a vertical line.

    2. The guarantee of a basic income toward every citizen, regardless of his status and his type of activity, formed by, for example, [[through fees for the resources of that territory]] or a luxury tax (this not to be confused with a living wage!). This slows down private enterprise, but also satisfies the need for this quadra's sense of social security for all members of the community.

    3. The elimination of tobacco-alcohol consumption as a social phenomenon (especially among youth). These plague our society and are havens for small-scale (including domestic) criminals. Not by Prohibition, since restrictive measures are not enough. Rather, by organizing public opportunities for meaningful leisure activities. In the fourth quadra, offenders and bullies feel like outcasts.

    4. A real opportunity to find a job (a profession or even a hobby) using ones abilities. In this quadra, work is not done for money, but for self-actualization. "What to do?" is the main question concerning independent youth. Self-actualization gives a higher sense of self-worth, which includes, primarily, a sense of relevance within a group and, secondly, a sense of success.

    Following the establishment of the "material basis" for its existence, the quadra then proceeds to solve humanitarian problems, especially psychological disorders (suicide is a particularly bad problem in delta), as well as compatibility in inter-personal relationships.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Delta sounds like a utopia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Delta sounds like a utopia.
    More like a mix of scandinavian countries and switzerland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    More like a mix of scandinavian countries and switzerland
    Yeah, well, except that part about alchool consumption
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah, well, except that part about alchool consumption
    Well....yeh, in a way . Scandinavians are freakish drunkards but their taxes on alcohol are huge also, so it costs a lot to be a drunken scandinavian .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    More like a mix of scandinavian countries and switzerland
    Yeah, I agree, the Netherlands!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    Well....yeh, in a way . Scandinavians are freakish drunkards but their taxes on alcohol are huge also, so it costs a lot to be a drunken scandinavian .
    I remember doing a bycicle tour some 25 year ago, and meeting a Swedish guy on a camping. He told us he came to the Netherlands for vacation, which was way cheaper than staying at home in Sweden. He explained his vacation routine: in the morning he would take his car to the supermarket and get a crate of beer (24 bottles). He would go back to his tent, where he sat in his chair all day basking in the sun with his crate of beer besides him, doing nothing other than staring in front of him and emptying his bottles. He repeated this pattern for the full three weeks of his vacation. To him, that was the perfect vacation.

    At the time I though he was a crazy alcoholic. I still do, but nowadays I can imagine it genuinely made him happy.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 08-20-2010 at 12:35 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    I actually like #3 the best.

    #4 is good too, except with #1-2, it just sounds like a socialist wrote it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    1. Decentralization of management toward something resembling a Confederation of lands (as it once was in ancient Greece - Confederations of poleis). Management should be horizontal rather than follow a vertical line.
    Sort of, I think in an ideal world this would be nice, but people are shitty and enough times things go wrong when there isn't one central government to check them (and it's good that these other governments check the central one). A Confederation would be nice if the place that aligned the most with your ideologies was located on the coast with a beautiful beach and not out in the boonies

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    2. The guarantee of a basic income toward every citizen, regardless of his status and his type of activity, formed by, for example, [[through fees for the resources of that territory]] or a luxury tax (this not to be confused with a living wage!). This slows down private enterprise, but also satisfies the need for this quadra's sense of social security for all members of the community.
    Another sorta. I do think that overall, a society should be compassionate to all of its members... So I'm not sure about a basic income, but something similar sounds fine. I'm not sure how this relates to my Quadra values, though, as there are plenty of Deltas who would flip out about something like this. It would be saying that if you're Delta, you can't be a fiscal Republican. I actually know two Alphas, one NeTi and one TiNe, who are on exact opposite ends of this statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    3. The elimination of tobacco-alcohol consumption as a social phenomenon (especially among youth). These plague our society and are havens for small-scale (including domestic) criminals. Not by Prohibition, since restrictive measures are not enough. Rather, by organizing public opportunities for meaningful leisure activities. In the fourth quadra, offenders and bullies feel like outcasts.
    DEFINITELY NOT! People should do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies, including drugs, whatever sex they want, and if they want to kill themselves. The government should not be making personal choices for you! Who decides what is a "plague" and what isn't? Ugh, that makes me sick. I personally don't smoke or do drugs really, and I guess I personally disapprove of smoking, but people know what they are doing to themselves... Let them do it. As long as they don't hurt anyone else. Reading this hurt me a little lol Is this supposed to be that oppressive everyone hates?

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    4. A real opportunity to find a job (a profession or even a hobby) using ones abilities. In this quadra, work is not done for money, but for self-actualization. "What to do?" is the main question concerning independent youth. Self-actualization gives a higher sense of self-worth, which includes, primarily, a sense of relevance within a group and, secondly, a sense of success.
    This is right up my alley actually, not sure how it fits into my Quadra values really (I think ultimately everyone wants what they do to sustain them and more fulfill them, unless work is just for money for them of course, which is strange to me but I dated a TeSi who was like that sorta kinda I'm stretching this too long). I could also be biased because I will be graduating with a Creative Writing degree, and want to get into the nearly impossible niche of RPG video game writing, so therefore will not be working a job I find fulfilling for a long time. But I feel like this is something not type related.

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Following the establishment of the "material basis" for its existence, the quadra then proceeds to solve humanitarian problems, especially psychological disorders (suicide is a particularly bad problem in delta), as well as compatibility in inter-personal relationships.
    What the hell does this even mean? That Deltas are more likely to commit suicide? This whole thing seemed kinda quacky to me.
    Last edited by Mattie; 08-20-2010 at 03:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    Originally Posted by jxrtes
    3. The elimination of tobacco-alcohol consumption as a social phenomenon (especially among youth). These plague our society and are havens for small-scale (including domestic) criminals. Not by Prohibition, since restrictive measures are not enough. Rather, by organizing public opportunities for meaningful leisure activities. In the fourth quadra, offenders and bullies feel like outcasts.
    DEFINITELY NOT! People should do whatever the hell they want with their own bodies, including drugs, whatever sex they want, and if they want to kill themselves. The government should not be making personal choices for you! Who decides what is a "plague" and what isn't? Ugh, that makes me sick. I personally don't smoke or do drugs really, and I guess I personally disapprove of smoking, but people know what they are doing to themselves... Let them do it. As long as they don't hurt anyone else. Reading this hurt me a little lol Is this supposed to be that oppressive everyone hates?
    Mattie i think you misunderstood #3. I think the point of #3 is that it's precisely not the government dictating "you're not allowed to do drugs" or "drugs are illegal" but about creating a society where contributing meaningfully to the society is so encouraged and fostered, such that people will be so into such activities, that they wont even want to do drugs (or kill or steal or loiter or make trouble or substitute whatever other counterproductive thing there is out there).

    I personally think that is a very delta sort of ideal.
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    I agree with all the 4 rules. Perfect.

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    i had a generally positive reaction to all of those except #3.

    opportunities for meaningful leisure activities sounds cool, but not the tobacco/alcohol thing. i guess if it followed, then fine, but i don't think that should be the motivation for it and i don't really see the connection.

    also i agree with most of what Mattie said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Mattie i think you misunderstood #3. I think the point of #3 is that it's precisely not the government dictating "you're not allowed to do drugs" or "drugs are illegal" but about creating a society where contributing meaningfully to the society is so encouraged and fostered, such that people will be so into such activities, that they wont even want to do drugs (or kill or steal or loiter or make trouble or substitute whatever other counterproductive thing there is out there).

    I personally think that is a very delta sort of ideal.
    This assumes that a person can't meaningfully contribute while being a smoker or drinker, and by your statement you're automatically assuming that alcohol and drug consumption are bad things. The rhetoric is what irked me the most, it was assigning a value of "plague" to things like alcohol and smoking. Who gets to decide what is a "plague" and what isn't? I don't want someone deciding that for me, and I wouldn't want to be born into a culture that looks down upon something I intrinsically like to do that doesn't harm anyone else. What actually has to be gotten rid of is destructive selfishness, as opposed to healthy selfishness, and that is a very hard thing to do.

    ETA: I'm always skeptical about these "Quadra Ideals" because I don't see the associations straight from the IAs, in my opinion they tend to be over-generalized enough to be meaningless. I can see where these come from, but I'd have to look into applying it as a type of criticism to things like History and Literature to see if I personally find a viable connection. I've noticed that others do that generally have sound arguments for other areas, so I have to at least give it a try. But inwardly, these sort of descriptions just feel really bad to me.

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    Re: suicide, I think he means that in highly organized and stable societies (like the one he's associating with Delta), suicide rates are high.

    Check out this map. More developed societies (Europe, North America) have higher suicide rates than less developed societies (Latin America, Middle East). With a couple of exceptions (China, India, Zimbabwe, etc.) -- possibly because these countries have a huge % of their population in serious poverty.

    http://www.suicide.org/images/suicide-rates-map.jpg





    Re: Alcohol consumption. I think he means preventing it as a wide-spread social phenomenon that prevents productivity and attracts crime. Not preventing it as a private thing that's under the control of the person doing it.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    1. Decentralization of management toward something resembling a Confederation of lands (as it once was in ancient Greece - Confederations of poleis). Management should be horizontal rather than follow a vertical line.
    I'll be honest, I don't really understand this part and am too lazy to look it up at the moment. But I do believe in decentralization of management. I see management as coming from the individuals themselves, while having representatives for each 'level'. For example, a neighborhood representative who can act on the neighborhood's behalf during inter-neighborhood discussions and mediations. But that this representative isn't the manager, just the voted in temporary representative. Not every person would be a representative, but some people would be better representatives for some issues, and not for others. Voting in the best representative for a specific issue, etc.

    I do recognize, however, that this slows down expediency for such things as war.

    2. The guarantee of a basic income toward every citizen, regardless of his status and his type of activity, formed by, for example, [[through fees for the resources of that territory]] or a luxury tax (this not to be confused with a living wage!). This slows down private enterprise, but also satisfies the need for this quadra's sense of social security for all members of the community.
    I would love to see basic necessities being met for each member of society. Or at the least, access to having those necessities met without having to work 3 jobs +.

    For example,
    Each 'neighborhood' having land set aside for the raising of food for each member of the neighborhood, wherein each member contributes time and effort. OR, each member having something akin to a mini-lot for raising food for themselves.

    When a neighborhood has a specialist, such as a doctor, then the neighborhood can contribute towards the work required for the doctor's basic necessities. By basic necessities I mean food/water, roof, basic clothing, and other such basic needs met. I'm not referring to car, expensive furniture, nor a 5 bedroom 3 story home with an indoor pool.


    3. The elimination of tobacco-alcohol consumption as a social phenomenon (especially among youth). These plague our society and are havens for small-scale (including domestic) criminals. Not by Prohibition, since restrictive measures are not enough. Rather, by organizing public opportunities for meaningful leisure activities. In the fourth quadra, offenders and bullies feel like outcasts.
    I see no reason why these should be eliminated.
    If a person is putting in their share in assisting the livelihood of the neighborhood, then what they do beyond that is their own business, as long as they aren't harming anyone else.

    If their drinking harms others..such as if they get violent, then the local society would respond. If the person isn't contributing, then the local society would respond. This response would likely be attempting to find help for the person, but in severe cases, outcasting them from the neighborhood might be a response. Alas, I do recognize that this might create issues for other neighborhoods in also having to deal with the outcast, as well as avoiding creating neighborhoods of nothing but outcasts as that could lead to a lot of trouble. But basically, it would be in the local society's best interests to find a solution to the problem. As well as in the person's best interests to find a solution to the problem.

    4. A real opportunity to find a job (a profession or even a hobby) using ones abilities. In this quadra, work is not done for money, but for self-actualization. "What to do?" is the main question concerning independent youth. Self-actualization gives a higher sense of self-worth, which includes, primarily, a sense of relevance within a group and, secondly, a sense of success.
    Not just one's abilities, but one's interests.
    Basically, instead of a person obtaining a large amount of expensive goods for doing a specific job, if everyone was 'paid' the same no matter the job, then people would seek out those jobs which fulfilled some personal/social value.

    In the example given above...regarding 'neighborhoods' and raising necessities... every person in the neighborhood, no matter the age (except for very very young to very very old) would be a contributing member, and would have a sense of self-worth and relevance. Even young children are capable of collecting eggs or feeding livestock. A growing teen would find some parts more interesting than others, and would gravitate to those parts and those people. Open communication within (and without) the neighborhood would allow new ideas to be considered and possibly implemented. etc.


    Following the establishment of the "material basis" for its existence, the quadra then proceeds to solve humanitarian problems, especially psychological disorders (suicide is a particularly bad problem in delta), as well as compatibility in inter-personal relationships.
    If the basic necessities are covered, and a culture is built off that, many humanitarian issues would also be covered.

    However, as was pointed out, it's an utopian ideal that won't likely see the light of day. And if it were to attempt to be implemented, it would take a detailed plan of action building on small steps and small changes at a time, covering many generations. As I said...won't likely see the light of day. :frown:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Autarchism would be more ideal for γ.
    I humbly disagree.

    As for the list itself, I would consider them stereotypically Delta.

    Even the last sentence is particularly resonant with me. That must be the Ne+Fi contribution to the quadra.
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    [B]RULE #1 IS EXACTLY THE PRINCIPLE ON WHICH THE USA WAS FOUNDED UPON. ALL THE STATES HAVE A HIGH DEGREE OF AUTONOMY. UNLIKE IN MANY COUNTRIES INCLUDING FOR EXAMPLE THE COUNTRY I LIVE IN, WHERE ALL 27 STATES AND 180 MILLION PEOPLE LIVE UNDER THE EXACT SAME LAWS. THERE IS ALMOST NO STATE AUTONOMY.

    RULE #2 IS WHAT YOU SEE IN SCANDINAVIA, BASICALLY, THAT NO ONE GETS TO HAVING TO RESORT TO ROBBING TO EAT, THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES A VERY BASIC AND SIMPLE LIFE FOR THOSE UNWILLING TO WORK.

    RULE #3 IS THAT IN A HEALTHY SOCIETY TOBACCO AND ALCOHOL AND DRUGS WOULD NOT BE WANTED. THEY ARE ONLY WANTED BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DRIVEN MAD BY UNHEALTHY SOCIETIES. IN A DECENT SOCIETY PEOPLE WOULD NOT WANT TO DRINK, SO HAPPY AND CONTENT THEY´D BE. IT´S NOT ABOUT PROHIBITION.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    RULE #3 IS THAT IN A HEALTHY SOCIETY TOBACCO AND ALCOHOL AND DRUGS WOULD NOT BE WANTED. THEY ARE ONLY WANTED BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DRIVEN MAD BY UNHEALTHY SOCIETIES. IN A DECENT SOCIETY PEOPLE WOULD NOT WANT TO DRINK, SO HAPPY AND CONTENT THEY´D BE. IT´S NOT ABOUT PROHIBITION.
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    I like the description, esp. points #2 and 4.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Autarchism would be more ideal for γ.
    Why?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    This assumes that a person can't meaningfully contribute while being a smoker or drinker, and by your statement you're automatically assuming that alcohol and drug consumption are bad things. The rhetoric is what irked me the most, it was assigning a value of "plague" to things like alcohol and smoking. Who gets to decide what is a "plague" and what isn't? I don't want someone deciding that for me, and I wouldn't want to be born into a culture that looks down upon something I intrinsically like to do that doesn't harm anyone else. What actually has to be gotten rid of is destructive selfishness, as opposed to healthy selfishness, and that is a very hard thing to do.
    Mattie, again i think you're interpreting it far too literally. The way i took it was "smoking" and "drinking" are just used here (perhaps misleadingly) as symbols for counterproductive activities. For the record, I do think smoking is one of the worst things you can choose to do to your health (so yeah, totally counterproductive). Drinking in moderation is fine, but no matter how you look at it, getting drunk (i.e. abusing alcohol) does not make one a productive person while in that state. Not only that, but a drunk person can potentially bring harm or at the very least, nuisance, to others. So even though some might find it fun to get drunk from time to time, I see it as a counterproductive thing, and a sign of lack of better things to do (same with other mind-altering substances). Not to mention all of these are unhealthy choices.

    And i think that's what #3 is really getting at.



    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post


    Re: Alcohol consumption. I think he means preventing it as a wide-spread social phenomenon that prevents productivity and attracts crime. Not preventing it as a private thing that's under the control of the person doing it.
    Yes that's how i interpreted it as well.


    Re: the suicide thing, well i just thought that was nonsense. Anyway, who says the developed world=delta? Seems like its a good mix of everyone. Anyway, I've always thought of things like suicide to be more of an Fe thing. Wasn't Esenin the one with committed suicide? IEI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Re: suicide, I think he means that in highly organized and stable societies (like the one he's associating with Delta), suicide rates are high.
    that is obviously not what he means. he means that to a delta society, the goal of stopping people from committing suicide is more pressing than to other-quadra societies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    In a society made by ESTJs I'd be an instant alchoolic
    (E1)

    Booze gets women to open up and talk about what's bothering them. It has good purposes.

    ,,,

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    Airborne isn't privileged enough to know stirlitz the way I do. yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilikesex View Post
    that is obviously not what he means. he means that to a delta society, the goal of stopping people from committing suicide is more pressing than to other-quadra societies.
    Why?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Interesting read. I can personally resonate with it but I'm leery to label it as being exclusive to Delta, or even a prerequisite for being Delta

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Re: suicide, I think he means that in highly organized and stable societies (like the one he's associating with Delta), suicide rates are high.

    Check out this map. More developed societies (Europe, North America) have higher suicide rates than less developed societies (Latin America, Middle East). With a couple of exceptions (China, India, Zimbabwe, etc.) -- possibly because these countries have a huge % of their population in serious poverty.

    http://www.suicide.org/images/suicide-rates-map.jpg





    Re: Alcohol consumption. I think he means preventing it as a wide-spread social phenomenon that prevents productivity and attracts crime. Not preventing it as a private thing that's under the control of the person doing it.
    That's basically what Maslow was describing, that when our basic needs are stable we move towards evaluating our internal needs. I think that could very well be why suicide rates are higher in the developed world opposed nations where the majority of the population are still struggling at the bottom of the hierarchy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Lol, Ryu has a Nazi in his avatar…
    He's a Russian spy dressed as a Nazi
    EII INFj
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    Woot, DeltAustralia has >13 per 100 thousand!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    (E1)

    Booze gets women to open up and talk about what's bothering them. It has good purposes.

    ,,,
    You wouldn´t need 'booze' to have sex with a woman in my society. There would be government-financed sex services of high level perfect-bodied and very gentle and perfectly wild-fucking 'helpers' who would be paid to give great free sex for guys like you if you made an application in a government sex-education house attesting that you´re experiencing sexual difficulties in finding women.

    In a later stage if the problem persists and you still need 'booze' to score, female scandinavian psychologists could be consulted to give you a full treatment to heal your psychic wounds regarding sex with therapeutic measures including intimate intercourse. They´d also be paid by the government. This is why we´d have to have so much taxes, but it´d be worth. The service would also be available to women, to make things equal and fair. I´m just not sure how to implement this with homosexuals. Should taxpayers pay for steroid-built gym bears to heal homosexuals´s sexual psychic wounds, or should homosexuals be treated for rehab into heterosexualism with the scando blondes with silicon tits? This would be the central question of my administration.

    A Delta world is definitely the world of the future if there is any hope for Humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    You wouldn´t need 'booze' to have sex with a woman in my society. There would be government-financed sex services of high level perfect-bodied and very gentle and perfectly wild-fucking 'helpers' who would be paid to give great free sex for guys like you if you made an application in a government sex-education house attesting that you´re experiencing sexual difficulties in finding women.

    In a later stage if the problem persists and you still need 'booze' to score, female scandinavian psychologists could be consulted to give you a full treatment to heal your psychic wounds regarding sex with therapeutic measures including intimate intercourse. They´d also be paid by the government. This is why we´d have to have so much taxes, but it´d be worth. The service would also be available to women, to make things equal and fair. I´m just not sure how to implement this with homosexuals. Should taxpayers pay for steroid-built gym bears to heal homosexuals´s sexual psychic wounds, or should homosexuals be treated for rehab into heterosexualism with the scando blondes with silicon tits? This would be the central question of my administration.

    A Delta world is definitely the world of the future if there is any hope for Humanity.
    Sounds rather unpleasant. I wouldn't enjoy welfare sex or state issued sex.

    "I'd rather have some coffee", as someone once said.



    anyway, your beta now, eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Airborne submitted to peer pressure.
    He's still LSE to me and will be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    You wouldn´t need 'booze' to have sex with a woman in my society. There would be government-financed sex services of high level perfect-bodied and very gentle and perfectly wild-fucking 'helpers' who would be paid to give great free sex for guys like you if you made an application in a government sex-education house attesting that you´re experiencing sexual difficulties in finding women.

    In a later stage if the problem persists and you still need 'booze' to score, female scandinavian psychologists could be consulted to give you a full treatment to heal your psychic wounds regarding sex with therapeutic measures including intimate intercourse. They´d also be paid by the government. This is why we´d have to have so much taxes, but it´d be worth. The service would also be available to women, to make things equal and fair. I´m just not sure how to implement this with homosexuals. Should taxpayers pay for steroid-built gym bears to heal homosexuals´s sexual psychic wounds, or should homosexuals be treated for rehab into heterosexualism with the scando blondes with silicon tits? This would be the central question of my administration.

    A Delta world is definitely the world of the future if there is any hope for Humanity.
    ROTFL
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Airborne submitted to peer pressure.
    no I just found it very nice to be female EIE´s dual.


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    lol welfare sex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    [B]RULE #1 IS EXACTLY THE PRINCIPLE ON WHICH THE USA WAS FOUNDED UPON. ALL THE STATES HAVE A HIGH DEGREE OF AUTONOMY. UNLIKE IN MANY COUNTRIES INCLUDING FOR EXAMPLE THE COUNTRY I LIVE IN, WHERE ALL 27 STATES AND 180 MILLION PEOPLE LIVE UNDER THE EXACT SAME LAWS. THERE IS ALMOST NO STATE AUTONOMY.

    RULE #2 IS WHAT YOU SEE IN SCANDINAVIA, BASICALLY, THAT NO ONE GETS TO HAVING TO RESORT TO ROBBING TO EAT, THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES A VERY BASIC AND SIMPLE LIFE FOR THOSE UNWILLING TO WORK.

    RULE #3 IS THAT IN A HEALTHY SOCIETY TOBACCO AND ALCOHOL AND DRUGS WOULD NOT BE WANTED. THEY ARE ONLY WANTED BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DRIVEN MAD BY UNHEALTHY SOCIETIES. IN A DECENT SOCIETY PEOPLE WOULD NOT WANT TO DRINK, SO HAPPY AND CONTENT THEY´D BE. IT´S NOT ABOUT PROHIBITION.
    You do so many posts in all caps. People would be far more likely to take you seriously if you would stop doing that. Also, do you edit these posts in all caps? Sigh.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Nudism is a delta value. Just private nudism.

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    Alpha nudism is like a baby walking around nude, it's supposed to be 'funny' or 'cute' or harmless.


    Betas are not nudists, at heart. not in the Si enjoyment way. It's more for dramtics or purposes or whatever. That much Si seems foreign to them. Gamma, too, but they are kind of, IDK. I almost see them as the least nudist.



    fun w generalizations

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    Got it wrong bro. Alpha nudism is because it feels good to not be wearing anything. This is the reason I wear light, loose-fitting clothing.

    Also sexiness value, where appropriate.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I actually like #3 the best.
    Seriously? 3 sounded like the worst one of them all in my book. People are absolutely capable of drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco in moderation and temperance, so why would you take it all away from them? The existence of some bad apples who give alcohol a bad rep shouldn't mean that it should all be banned, but rather it should be accepted that those kinds of people do exist and always will exist. I doubt that being "socially outcast" is going to make those people stop doing what they do, and making such substances illegal certainly isn't going to stop the problem. This sort of problem is going to have to be solved at an individual level, because everybody drinks for different reasons and it isn't fair to those who drink responsibly to have them not drink at all.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Also nudism is a cool idea except that everybody is already conditioned to wear clothes, so to be a nudist at this stage in the game is going to be really fucking stupid. For the first few months it'll probably consist of "lol a penis" and general uncomfortability around friends and family (and enemies and strangers(and casual acquaintances(everybody))).
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  40. #40
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    For me, the OP contains a stereotype I don't identify with, and don't believe your function placement actually influences. It's very possible I'm being ultra-resistant to being categorized in such a sweeping manner, I've never felt in tune with what everyone commonly associates with Delta values, but I know I'm NeFi and if no one has ever doubted me... Something tells me I'm not an exception to the rule either. I'm not even completely sure how this is useful, except that this is apparently trying to predict overall themes of life when certain governments are seen as a certain type. From my personal observations, I don't think you can really type something outside of an individual, as humans themselves (not groups) possess the IMEs and their placement is what gives them a type. I imagine there is some usefulness to the speculation of Socionics in this manner, but I just haven't run across a conversation or application that makes this sort of practice hold its own weight.

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