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Thread: Lie to Me (tv series)

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    Default Lie to Me (tv series)

    Anyone else seen this epic series?

    Lightman- H-LII-Ti (INTj), 5w4 sp/sx, INTP
    Foster- D-IEE-Fi (ENFp), 2w1 so/sx, ESFJ
    Torres- D-LSI-Ti (ISTj), 5w6 sp/so, ISTP
    Loker- H-EII-Fi (INFj), 4w5 sp/sx, ENFP
    Reynolds- N-LSI-Se (ISTj), 6w5 so/sp, ISTJ
    Emily Lightman- C-SEI-Si (ISFp), 7w8 sx/sp, ISFP
    Alec Foster- C-SEE-Se (ESFp), 7w8 sp/sx, ESTP
    Zoe Landau- D-SLE-Se (ESTp), 3w4 sp/so, ESTJ
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    hahah, i'm actually watching the most recent show right now, checking the forum during commercials.

    I don't know about types, but lightman is blatant Fe valuing. His whole job is based around Fe.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Gilly's format of typing is getting more and more popular. Oh wait, you've added MBTT typings! Awesome. Incredible.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    So which ones of them are Type A personality?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I think I'd put Lightman as D-LII, actually. He's strongly focused on achieving his one goal of being able to tell when people are lying, and won't let anything get in the way of that. He's also able to motivate the people around him to help him achieve that goal. H-LIIs don't typically pursue their goals that aggressively, and tend to take life as it comes to them.

    He reminds me of Dr. Rush from Stargate Universe, actually.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Loker is such a tool. What happens when Lightman meets ILI's and SLI's? The Fe blackhole must drive him wild. Does he claim they are "sociopaths"?
    The previous thread had Lightman as SLE-Ti, I'm seeing him as having more of an Ep temperament anyhow Entp ti if alpha.

    Edit: Someone typed him as ILI too, hilarious.
    What's Tim Roth the actor?
    Foster is such the stereotypical "psychologist" annoying withholding of her own Fe and use Fi to manipulate others becase she has a doctorate degree is a woman and she knows best vibe. Ironically I thought she could be enfj too. (or infj) Increased rationality is apparent.
    I thought Zoe was possbily enfp as well, she has the lawyer mask though.
    Last edited by jughead; 08-19-2010 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    hahah, i'm actually watching the most recent show right now, checking the forum during commercials.

    I don't know about types, but lightman is blatant Fe valuing. His whole job is based around Fe.
    Indeed, though it's more based on deduction and observation. In MBTI I actually think he's Ti > Si > Fe (rather little Ne to speak of); his MO is to observe people and compare their expressions to a set standard (Si), to support his analysis of them (Ti or Ti + Fe).

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Gilly's format of typing is getting more and more popular. Oh wait, you've added MBTT typings! Awesome. Incredible.
    Gilly did this before I did? I've been doing it for ages in typology central.

    Glad it's appreciated though.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Lightman ENTp-Ti-D
    Foster SEI-Si H or N
    Torres LSI-Se-D
    Emily SEI
    Reynolds SLE
    Zoe might be LSE

    Not sure about anyone else

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    Curious, I see merit in most of your typings here, hkkmr, but I'm curious why you think SEI > IEE for Foster. I initially figured IEE, but I can see how SEI is a distinct posibility.
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vero View Post
    Curious, I see merit in most of your typings here, hkkmr, but I'm curious why you think SEI > IEE for Foster. I initially figured IEE, but I can see how SEI is a distinct posibility.
    She's like the rock that holds Lightman's world together. If you look at her job in the show, she is the one that runs the place, Lightman is just the ringleader/intellectual leader. She gets him the funding, she sets up the work. She's is basically the person that takes care of Lightman and you get the feeling that there's nothing else she would rather be doing.

    I don't see how she could have Se-role or Ti-polr, she has strong Se imo but not valued.

    Anyways...

    Quote Originally Posted by Show
    Cal Lightman: What is that?
    Gillian Foster: Chocolate pudding.
    Cal Lightman: Who eats pudding at ten in the morning?
    Gillian Foster: People who like pudding.
    It's all about the pudding.



    I think this is a good example of SEI-ILE duality.

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    I can easily see lightman as an entp. He's definitely got the constant physical movement of someone who's got all sorts of stuff running through their mind...combined with the outward focus. He's also quick to run through various modes as he tries to hit a trigger in whoever he's observing. There's no taking time to methodically think through what he's observing. It's a very quick process which jumps from point to point at the blink of an eye...literally and figuratively.

    Initially I was thinking an Fi base for Foster, but I can also see an Si base possibility.

    I do know that lightman acts as if he's on uppers. His constant movements and mannerisms agitates me. Often when seeing lightman and foster interacting or in a room together, I get an overwhelming desire to 'move over to her side' to gain some sense of calmness from the presence of lightman's storm.

    It's actually do to this seemingly lack of need to relax or calm down that has me wondering if he might be FeNi or SeTi. I don't see how an EP Si valuing could keep going like that, nonstop. He'd burn out quickly. But lightman doesn't burn out, he just keeps going and going and going.
    *shiver*
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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I can easily see lightman as an entp. He's definitely got the constant physical movement of someone who's got all sorts of stuff running through their mind...combined with the outward focus. He's also quick to run through various modes as he tries to hit a trigger in whoever he's observing. There's no taking time to methodically think through what he's observing. It's a very quick process which jumps from point to point at the blink of an eye...literally and figuratively.

    Initially I was thinking an Fi base for Foster, but I can also see an Si base possibility.

    I do know that lightman acts as if he's on uppers. His constant movements and mannerisms agitates me. Often when seeing lightman and foster interacting or in a room together, I get an overwhelming desire to 'move over to her side' to gain some sense of calmness from the presence of lightman's storm.

    It's actually do to this seemingly lack of need to relax or calm down that has me wondering if he might be FeNi or SeTi. I don't see how an EP Si valuing could keep going like that, nonstop. He'd burn out quickly. But lightman doesn't burn out, he just keeps going and going and going.
    *shiver*
    I think Tim Roth in this role moves just like me. We got very similar mannerisms, if not identical.

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    Great points above. I could certainly see ILE and SEI for Lightman and Foster. Not sure about Reynolds, but I'll roll with SLE for now. Zoe I just don't see as Si-creative (I could be wrong, but the description just doesn't jive).

    Based on that, let's see...

    Lightman- D-ILE-Ti (ENTp), 5w4 sp/sx, INTP
    Foster- D-SEI-Fe (ISFp), 2w1 so/sx, ESFJ
    Torres- D-LSI-Se (ISTj), 5w6 sp/so, ISTP
    Loker- H-EII-Fi (INFj), 4w5 sp/sx, ENFP
    Reynolds- N-SLE-Se (ESTp), 6w5 so/sp, ISTJ
    Emily Lightman- C-SEI-Si (ISFp), 7w8 sx/sp, ISFP
    Alec Foster- C-SEE-Se (ESFp), 7w8 sp/sx, ESTP
    Zoe Landau- D-SLE-Se (ESTp), 3w4 sp/so, ESTJ
    Last edited by Aleksei; 08-20-2010 at 04:00 PM.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Great points above. I could certainly see ILE and SEI for Lightman and Foster. Not sure about Reynolds, but I'll roll with SLE for now. Zoe I just don't see as Si-creative (I could be wrong, but the description just doesn't jive).
    I can't see Zoe as SLE, she's not much like the other beta ST's.

    I waffle between LSE and EIE. I don't really type her based on her expressed personality, I think she's not really a super-developed character. She's often just a plot hook or a side-character who is there as a foil or do stuff for Lightman in a snarky "we used to be married" manner.

    She does happen to have a sort of rivalry with Foster who she views as a threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I can't see Zoe as SLE, she's not much like the other beta ST's.

    I waffle between LSE and EIE. I don't really type her based on her expressed personality, I think she's not really a super-developed character. She's often just a plot hook or a side-character who is there as a foil or do stuff for Lightman in a snarky "we used to be married" manner.

    She does happen to have a sort of rivalry with Foster who she views as a threat.
    Hmm, I see...

    Lightman- D-ILE-Ti (ENTp), 5w4 sp/sx, INTP
    Foster- D-SEI-Fe (ISFp), 2w1 so/sx, ESFJ
    Torres- D-LSI-Se (ISTj), 5w6 sp/so, ISTP
    Loker- C-EII-Fi (INFj), 4w5 sp/sx, ENFP
    Reynolds- N-SLE-Se (ESTp), 6w5 so/sp, ISTJ
    Emily Lightman- C-SEI-Si (ISFp), 7w8 sx/sp, ISFP
    Alec Foster- C-SEE-Se (ESFp), 7w8 sp/sx, ESTP
    Zoe Landau- D-LSE-Te (ESTj), 3w4 sp/so, ESTJ
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Gilly did this before I did? I've been doing it for ages in typology central.

    Glad it's appreciated though.
    I was being sarcastic... but sure, whatever.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I can easily see lightman as an entp. He's definitely got the constant physical movement of someone who's got all sorts of stuff running through their mind...combined with the outward focus. He's also quick to run through various modes as he tries to hit a trigger in whoever he's observing. There's no taking time to methodically think through what he's observing. It's a very quick process which jumps from point to point at the blink of an eye...literally and figuratively.

    Initially I was thinking an Fi base for Foster, but I can also see an Si base possibility.

    I do know that lightman acts as if he's on uppers. His constant movements and mannerisms agitates me. Often when seeing lightman and foster interacting or in a room together, I get an overwhelming desire to 'move over to her side' to gain some sense of calmness from the presence of lightman's storm.

    It's actually do to this seemingly lack of need to relax or calm down that has me wondering if he might be FeNi or SeTi. I don't see how an EP Si valuing could keep going like that, nonstop. He'd burn out quickly. But lightman doesn't burn out, he just keeps going and going and going.
    *shiver*

    You see, this is Lightman's whole stick. He is literally lying all the time to people. Even in the small things. AND the only people in his life who see through his little charades are Foster, his daughter Emily, Torres, Loker (but only through ethics). Its the whole point of the show that Lightman is a liar. His twitchy movements are manipulation, deflection, subterfuge.

    I'm not talking about spoken lies here. I am talking about on a primal, human animal level, lightman is the ultimate actor. He is acting, playing "a human being". He is so versed in body language and psychology that is is always pretending to be a "person" when he talks with people. I think he is totally outside of a "lightman" self. His twitchy movements are meant to portray whatever it is he wants others to see.

    The people in his life who can see the real him, for instance his daughter and Foster, he loves and appreciates immensely.

    And by the way I did not know there was a third season omg, I watching it now.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    I know everyone says Lightman is an Alpha NT, I just doubt this completely.

    He is way too adept at networking and maneuvering with people, with making inter-personal connections instantly. He reads people, sees what they want, need, desire, are truly saying. He is highly ethical in his approach. He is forceful, domineering, submissive when appropriate, he is not afraid of saying things that will bother people, he aware of power structures, actively manipulates people and not "scientifically" but naturally. He notices things others do not. He is cunning, crafty and values compassion and humanistic values and and welcomes these qualities in others.

    "Do you think you and me can work together". This is what he says to basically every person he comes across, building trust, building relationships. His job is literally building relationships. His skills are understanding people well, the ability to notice everything that is going on around him, and a willful character. He is exceptionally diplomatic. He is optimistic, tries to uphold and smooth over relations with everyone in his life.

    The guy is a text book SEE, probably either subtype cause he is such a boss. I don't care that his job involves reading peoples emotional cues (and therefore Fe), he does it demonstratively. He is not attracted to people in his life who exemplify an Fe mannerisms. All his friends and family are Fi people who down play his demonstrative Fe. His style of thinking is Ni focused, getting to the essence of the situations and not far flung brainstorming you can see in Ne -doms. If looking for an Ne character then Foster would foot the bill.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Meh, having said that I'm not to hung up on it. Lightman as ENTp. @mu4
    Last edited by wacey; 02-12-2015 at 04:09 AM.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    I know everyone says Lightman is an Alpha NT, I just doubt this completely.

    He is way too adept at networking and maneuvering with people, with making inter-personal connections instantly. He reads people, sees what they want, need, desire, are truly saying. He is highly ethical in his approach. He is forceful, domineering, submissive when appropriate, he is not afraid of saying things that will bother people, he aware of power structures, actively manipulates people and not "scientifically" but naturally. He notices things others do not. He is cunning, crafty and values compassion and humanistic values and and welcomes these qualities in others.

    "Do you think you and me can work together". This is what he says to basically every person he comes across, building trust, building relationships. His job is literally building relationships. His skills are understanding people well, the ability to notice everything that is going on around him, and a willful character. He is exceptionally diplomatic. He is optimistic, tries to uphold and smooth over relations with everyone in his life.

    The guy is a text book SEE, probably either subtype cause he is such a boss. I don't care that his job involves reading peoples emotional cues (and therefore Fe), he does it demonstratively. He is not attracted to people in his life who exemplify an Fe mannerisms. All his friends and family are Fi people who down play his demonstrative Fe. His style of thinking is Ni focused, getting to the essence of the situations and not far flung brainstorming you can see in Ne -doms. If looking for an Ne character then Foster would foot the bill.
    "Do you think you and me can work together". is more business like relations than personal type relations. Not all human social interaction is ethically focused, there are many business interactions.

    I'm not sure if ENTp's are bad at any of those things which you talk about such as power structures, manipulation, etc. It's also quite often that ENTp take up humanitarian causes, just like any other type. As far as his skill in things he says it's not natural but trained. It's quite clear he doesn't know how to deal with relationships and its his daughter that maintains her relationship with him not the other way around. He shows weak ethics as far as that family interaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    "Do you think you and me can work together". is more business like relations than personal type relations. Not all human social interaction is ethically focused, there are many business interactions.

    I'm not sure if ENTp's are bad at any of those things which you talk about such as power structures, manipulation, etc. It's also quite often that ENTp take up humanitarian causes, just like any other type. As far as his skill in things he says it's not natural but trained. It's quite clear he doesn't know how to deal with relationships and its his daughter that maintains her relationship with him not the other way around. He shows weak ethics as far as that family interaction.
    In fact, i feel like someone who has to ask people if they can work well together is probably weak at Fi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    "Do you think you and me can work together". is more business like relations than personal type relations. Not all human social interaction is ethically focused, there are many business interactions.

    I'm not sure if ENTp's are bad at any of those things which you talk about such as power structures, manipulation, etc. It's also quite often that ENTp take up humanitarian causes, just like any other type. As far as his skill in things he says it's not natural but trained. It's quite clear he doesn't know how to deal with relationships and its his daughter that maintains her relationship with him not the other way around. He shows weak ethics as far as that family interaction.
    I agree its his Daughter who leads to maintain that family relationship.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    "Do you think you and me can work together". is more business like relations than personal type relations. Not all human social interaction is ethically focused, there are many business interactions.
    It's all ethics, even the business ones. Just at a different point on the spectrum.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    It's all ethics, even the business ones. Just at a different point on the spectrum.
    "Not all human social interaction is ethically focused"

    I said focused, there is a component of ethics to all human interaction but that doesn't mean it's the dominant focus. Which is why I said focused.

    Lightman typically only interact for business reasons, Foster is the one that does most of the soft touch diplomacy for Lightman, and he has runners for most things. What Lightman does is mostly fuck with people psychologically to get at the truth, he's not particularly looking to befriend or be like-able.

  25. #25
    Haikus Persephone's Avatar
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    Started to watch this (decades after its succes but I am rarely following trends), and after 2 episodes I think that
    Lightman is ENTp
    Foster is ISFp
    Torres is ISTj
    Have doubts for the guy but seems like an intuitive and not a Se valuer
    Interesting show

  26. #26
    Haikus Persephone's Avatar
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    Emily is ISFp
    Locker is likely Fi lead, INFj

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