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Thread: Caring for your Delta NF (INFj & ENFp)

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    Default Caring for your Delta NF (INFj & ENFp)

    I've had this idea for a thread for a while so here it is.

    There will be questions and discussion brought up about delta NFs that they can respond to. And I may share some of my experiences as well. In my mind this thread is geared towards delta STs understanding NFs better, but it could just become a general relationship question thread.

    I know for myself I'm simply much more drawn to delta NF women than any other women, so, I have an interest in this topic. Also, as an optional suggestion, I'd like to see things addressed in more common terminology when possible. I say that because, in the context of a relationship or dealing with someone who doesn't know socionics, you're going to need to understand and convey and formulate thoughts without retreating into socionics speak.




    I'll have more questions and stuff later, but, for now, one thing that comes to mind is how odd it is to realize what it means for someone to "value" and be "strong" at Fi. Or in non socionics terms, how much someone could really value or care about certain kinds of relationships. It's one of those things that I find fascinatingly odd and different from myself, but very appealing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I'll have more questions and stuff later, but, for now, one thing that comes to mind is how odd it is to realize what it means for someone to "value" and be "strong" at Fi. Or in non socionics terms, how much someone could really value or care about certain kinds of relationships. It's one of those things that I find fascinatingly odd and different from myself, but very appealing.
    One of the major parts of my life is relationship with other people. In a way this is true for everyone, we have friends, we have family, we have co-workers and other people we are surrounded on a daily basis and we have to deal with them and no matter how much you want to say you dont care you do. However I noticed I am different than other people in how much of focus I tend to show for this particular area and how much it can affect everything I do. As an example I can have perfect job, be successful, in everything I do, have enough money but if I am unhappy in my current relationship I will be unhappy no matter how much I achieve or how much other people feel I am lucky. In case there is no relationship I will feel lost and without direction, Ill find things to do to distract myself and be "fun and happy" but at the end of the day i will feel empty and whatever I will do will be just filling time. This example concerns really close friendships and romantic relationships. There are relatively unimportant people who can still affect how I feel on a day to day basis. I analyze people constantly, overanalyze yes, but even if I know that I dont see that changing, thats how I am, I find joy and intrigue in this. It feels good when you are correct on a lot of hunches which come out of nowhere, when I was younger I felt like I am very gifted and that nobody can do it to the level I do. This is untrue of course, I know more and more people who do, I know people who do it better than me. I know people who say I know them very well although I feel like I dont know them at all etc. At the same time, no matter how much relationships affect me, no matter how much they are important to me I am still going my way, doing my things sometimes at the expense of the said relationships. Seems self-defeating, on the other hand I cant see myself differently as this is who I am, I cant hold myself down, If I want to explore the world then Id rather do it, instead of limiting myself simply due to the fact I made this mistake once (this may not be a mistake in another context, eventually this is how it is supposed to be) when I gave up a few dreams in other to maintain certain relationships and fulfill my duties. I never want to do this again, but if I will this will be the person I will keep focusing on for a long time and hopefully a person I can drag along with me wherever my whims will take me and if not that the everyday life will be greater than any adventure I might want.

    This wall of text was presented to you by a tired NF who should went to sleep a few hours ago . Hope at least a small portion answers the first question raised.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

    ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
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    http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/

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    You make them sound like they're sea monkeys or something.

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    The title of this thread makes me feel like a plant or pet lol

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    Creepy-female

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    Caring for your Delta NF



    Step 1: Add water
    Step 2: Add Subway

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    Aww Ryu, I find the title of this thread and the OP soo endearing. Thanks.

    I am touched to know that at least we are someone's favorites.

    And ditto to everything Ssmall said. Every last word.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Tee hee. This thread reminds me of an image I came across a while ago.


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    I guess in answer to your question though, in terms of caring for a delta NF speaking for me as well as my delta NF sister, I would say the best thing is to be supportive and thoughtful but not too overbearing or clingy. We need to be cared for (even if we dont recognize or admit it), and we appreciate it but we love doing our own thing too because we have all these interests we want to develop. In fact the potential clinginess/controlling has been one of the things that's made me hesitant about relationships thus far.

    But also, I would love it if my S.O. would be interested in being involved in those interests with me too, so its not just about that.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Tee hee. This thread reminds me of an image I came across a while ago.

    Yeah i would say that's a delta NF thing. Not an introvert thing. Great list April!!
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    The title of this thread is misleading and contradicts the OP. I was hoping we were gonna talk about how we take care of our Delta NFs, what things we do for them, how we treat our queens, how we show our love etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    The title of this thread makes me feel like a plant or pet lol
    Excellent. Proves you're an infantile.

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Caring for your Delta NF



    Step 1: Add water
    Step 2: Add Subway
    Exactly, only those are not the correct steps.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I guess in answer to your question though, in terms of caring for a delta NF speaking for me as well as my delta NF sister, I would say the best thing is to be supportive and thoughtful but not too overbearing or clingy. We need to be cared for (even if we dont recognize or admit it), and we appreciate it but we love doing our own thing too because we have all these interests we want to develop. In fact the potential clinginess/controlling has been one of the things that's made me hesitant about relationships thus far.

    But also, I would love it if my S.O. would be interested in being involved in those interests with me too, so its not just about that.
    Finally someone that shares my perception. Delta NFs read my mind.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I guess in answer to your question though, in terms of caring for a delta NF speaking for me as well as my delta NF sister, I would say the best thing is to be supportive and thoughtful but not too overbearing or clingy. We need to be cared for (even if we dont recognize or admit it), and we appreciate it but we love doing our own thing too because we have all these interests we want to develop.
    i relate to all this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Excellent. Proves you're an infantile.
    i don't want to be compared to or treated like a pet or houseplant. does that mean i'm not infantile? maybe i'm not understanding this lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    Finally someone that shares my perception. Delta NFs read my mind.
    No, delta STs read my mind! SLIs in particular.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    The title of this thread is misleading and contradicts the OP. I was hoping we were gonna talk about how we take care of our Delta NFs, what things we do for them, how we treat our queens, how we show our love etc.
    Please share this. . .I want to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Tee hee. This thread reminds me of an image I came across a while ago.

    this list
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    I showed an LSE this thread, and asked him his opinion. He hates Socionics, but he had some thoughts. Here's our conversation:

    me: so, you want a manual?
    LSE: Yes
    I saved your list though, but I need a full manual.
    me: hahaha <3
    have you learned anything that you would add to the manual?
    LSE: Hmmmmmmmmm
    For you specifically
    Tell you you're pretty every day.
    Tell you to relax
    and slow down
    Remind you to take your meds.
    Cuddles.
    Make sure you're happy.
    Ask if there is anything I can do right now.
    Sex.
    Making sure I try not to say silly things to you that might get misinterpreted.
    Scratching your itch.
    Hmmmmmm
    What else ...
    Laughing with you.
    Doing things together.
    Talking through things.
    me: does most of the stuff come naturally?
    LSE: Helping you out.
    me: or did you have to learn anything?
    LSE: Oh Naturally.
    I don't think I actually "learnt" anything...
    Except I don't think I realised how sensitive you are.
    I have had to learn that.
    me: yes <3
    do you care if i put any of this in that thread?
    LSE: You can teach me.
    Go ahead.
    me: hmm, is there any other information i should include?
    more bullet points to the manual?
    LSE: Mmmmmmm
    Ask them what they want
    But don't rely on an answer. Have a plan of what to do if they don't know.
    Touch is the most important sense.
    Touch them often.
    me: aww
    i like that

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    April, i really enjoyed reading that, and this really stood out to me for some reason:

    "Ask them what they want
    But don't rely on an answer. Have a plan of what to do if they don't know."

    YES.

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    I wanted to throw out something in a different perspectives, thinking of IE interaction more than what is being discussed here:

    This might sound strange coming from an NeFi, but when it comes to a relationship with me (and I think with FiNe as well), there needs to be a certain type of consistency. When it comes to being donned with a certain relationship title (acquaintance, pal, best friend, partner), there are also automatically bestowed benefits that those who are not in said category do not receive. These sort of things we do naturally and don't look for a 1:1 give and take, but it does help expend some emotional energy, so to speak. As with every human relationship, there are expectations, and with the valuers, this comes in an unspoken expectation of what needs to be filled as a/n (insert acquaintance, pal, best friend, partner here). I believe NeFi and FiNe feel completely comfortable giving you the "benefits" of a certain type of relationship as long as you upkeep the base expectations of said title. Un/Fortunately, this changes from person to person, so one person might be big on communication and won't be any trouble if you stay in touch as often that makes them feel comfortable (I'm this way, and I remember Slackermom being this way as well), another will have another focus. If asked, the NeFi/FiNe most likely can lay out what it is that they expect without much trouble, and these expectations usually never change. I would say with a healthy NeFi/FiNe, there are just a constant couple of things to upkeep, and you are most likely free to maneuver to do whatever it is you want without worry.

    I've noticed that egos tend to willinginly keep -related "double-standards," which can lead a relationship to be lopsided (not to say the -ego can't, just an observation). This comes out in one instance asking your friend/partner to be clear about what they are feeling/thinking now that you've attained a certain closeness, but holding back what you are feeling/thinking; the -ego senses right away when there's something uneven going on. -egos tend to want to take in information and figure things out but not reciprocate because they haven't figured out exactly how to, but this frustrates the -ego who feels left in the dark.

    As a general overview (I find it harder and harder to really talk about mirrors together, they seem more different than similar to me sometimes) NeFi and FiNe will make blind leaps with - and -related information, and be seemingly oblivious about them other times. Seeing that their super-ID functions are the concrete and dynamic, these sudden bursts of trying to be more knowledgeable and proficient with and will be very tiring coming out of a "static" perspective, like jumping into a flowing river and trying to swim right direction and forgetting your water-wings. Sometimes it might seem like we're not putting in much effort, and there can be times that it appears melodramatic when we just shut down when we're discouraged. I've noticed that NeFi/FiNe that are treated like helpless children either start to mold themselves into that role or start to actively rebel, and neither are positive options.

    Though it might seem like you're going to escape it, there will be times the NeFi/FiNe will be frustrated at the lack of and observance when deeper in the relationship; there's no running from them! But don't worry, as far as I can tell this is kept rather private and treated with patience. It's less of needing and from you, but sometimes it seems irritating because and are just so plain easy for us to see... Why aren't you seeing it too? This goes for all types really, it's something to ride through sensitively and not get hung up on. Meaning, the egos have to sometimes be aware of how they are and are not outwardly indicating what they feel in private with an -ego... I think how it goes is that the -ego think it's cute/fine that there's a complete lack of with everyone else, but with them... Well, c'mon now, cough it up. Same with , there will be times when the NeFi/FiNe will be bewildered that you don't have an understanding.

    I find myself constantly wanting to do two separate responses, the fact that the functions are mirrored makes a very big difference. So I'll stop here since I just had a random burst of typing in me

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    LSE: Oh Naturally.
    I don't think I actually "learnt" anything...
    Except I don't think I realised how sensitive you are.
    I have had to learn that.


    The funny thing is, I feel bad quite often for being so sensitive.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    I really like the responses so far and resonate with a lot that's been said

    I'm more comfortable with FiNe now than when I was younger, but I suppose that could be said for most people. My being is pretty much engulfed by thoughts of people, the effect I have on them and they on me, and a need to retain a cautiousness when it comes to both, but I suppose the latter point may have a lot to do with needing to avoid Se.
    I've realized that I possess a sort of naivety towards the more practical matters in life, which I think is party due to being less focused on them and also lacking confidence in my abilities to handle such matters in the first place. This, in conjunction with a lot of anxieties related to needing to be an independent and productive person, for survivals sake at least, while simultaneously feeling a sense of failure at both, is probably the most difficult aspect I feel that may be linked to my type, although this may be just a big projection of personal issues
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post


    The funny thing is, I feel bad quite often for being so sensitive.
    Yeah... I know.

    That's what is baffling to me. I'm seeing a delta NF right now, and, I realize there is a lot of personal inner turmoil she has over this, and I think some of it is because it's been reinforced by certain experiences that such is a "bad thing" (a lot about opposing quadra values could/may be said).

    But yeah, it's that you are so sensitive. Like the LSE above and other STs have said, realizing how sensitive you guys are is pretty amazing. And you realize that even more the closer you get to a delta NF.

    (this is what I was going to write here today, when i first came on, about being sensitive and being aware of it. I only understood the depth of that sensitivity when I had a really close relationship with a delta NF)


    But I don't see it as a bad thing. I don't like it when people say a major part of themselves is "a bad thing".

    Or worse, when someone has been trained or taught that what they are naturally is a bad thing . . .




    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    I really like the responses so far and resonate with a lot that's been said
    Yeah, it's developed nicely. There's a lot to respond to.

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    I don't know why I'm finding this thread cheesy, but it might just be the "delta NF woman" focus .

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    Though it might seem like you're going to escape it, there will be times the NeFi/FiNe will be frustrated at the lack of and observance when deeper in the relationship; there's no running from them! But don't worry, as far as I can tell this is kept rather private and treated with patience. It's less of needing and from you, but sometimes it seems irritating because and are just so plain easy for us to see... Why aren't you seeing it too? This goes for all types really, it's something to ride through sensitively and not get hung up on. Meaning, the egos have to sometimes be aware of how they are and are not outwardly indicating what they feel in private with an -ego... I think how it goes is that the -ego think it's cute/fine that there's a complete lack of with everyone else, but with them... Well, c'mon now, cough it up. Same with , there will be times when the NeFi/FiNe will be bewildered that you don't have an understanding.
    I've also noticed this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    At the same time, no matter how much relationships affect me, no matter how much they are important to me I am still going my way, doing my things sometimes at the expense of the said relationships. Seems self-defeating, on the other hand I cant see myself differently as this is who I am, I cant hold myself down, If I want to explore the world then Id rather do it, instead of limiting myself simply due to the fact I made this mistake once (this may not be a mistake in another context, eventually this is how it is supposed to be) when I gave up a few dreams in other to maintain certain relationships and fulfill my duties. I never want to do this again, but if I will this will be the person I will keep focusing on for a long time and hopefully a person I can drag along with me wherever my whims will take me and if not that the everyday life will be greater than any adventure I might want.
    Thanks for responding.

    That post, especially what I quoted, is almost verbatim what a delta NF told me recently. She has a terrible fear of giving up on her dreams and stuff, because she's seen it happen to another person she respects a lot, and also because she knows she cares so much about other people. It's complicated some, but, I understand it.

    ...One theme I'm sure I will come back to is that how, with delta NFs, I feel like something I have to help them with is more overtly addressing their own needs and wants.


    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    You make them sound like they're sea monkeys or something.
    They aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    The title of this thread makes me feel like a plant or pet lol
    Hm. I don't see you as a plant or pet.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Aww Ryu, I find the title of this thread and the OP soo endearing. Thanks.

    I am touched to know that at least we are someone's favorites.

    And ditto to everything Ssmall said. Every last word.
    Good deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Tee hee. This thread reminds me of an image I came across a while ago.
    You know what's curious to me?

    An IEE is 'very much set' on being an introvert - socially at least. I don't really agree with her, but it's kind of because my take on MBTI terminology and socionics and other things is what it is. But I'm sure she would agree almost entirely with that image. Good find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I guess in answer to your question though, in terms of caring for a delta NF speaking for me as well as my delta NF sister, I would say the best thing is to be supportive and thoughtful but not too overbearing or clingy. We need to be cared for (even if we dont recognize or admit it), and we appreciate it but we love doing our own thing too because we have all these interests we want to develop. In fact the potential clinginess/controlling has been one of the things that's made me hesitant about relationships thus far.

    But also, I would love it if my S.O. would be interested in being involved in those interests with me too, so its not just about that.
    Yeah, that's a curious line to walk. not smothering but not being too distant. showing desire but now being too possessive. Etc


    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    The title of this thread is misleading and contradicts the OP. I was hoping we were gonna talk about how we take care of our Delta NFs, what things we do for them, how we treat our queens, how we show our love etc.
    This thread isn't really set in stone.

    If you want to contribute that to the thread, go ahead.


    I didn't want it to be dictated "here is how to care for a delta NF", I wanted it to be a discussion about things I've found in my experiences and relationships, and other people doing the same thing. There are a lot of fine points that have been coming up for me lately, especially actually being closer to NFs as of late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    You make them sound like they're sea monkeys or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    The title of this thread makes me feel like a plant or pet lol
    This is what I thought too. My brain was all "this is so little womany, please let me vomit evrywar." And then I found the sentiment all mushy and nice. And then I felt like puking again. Then the seamonkey picture had me lolling and I got over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    I showed an LSE this thread, and asked him his opinion. He hates Socionics, but he had some thoughts. Here's our conversation:
    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    April, i really enjoyed reading that, and this really stood out to me for some reason:

    "Ask them what they want
    But don't rely on an answer. Have a plan of what to do if they don't know."

    YES.


    Delta NFs sometimes have this thing where they don't feel at all comfortable directly expressing what they want or even knowing what they want. (I kind of feel like they don't even want to accept or deal with knowing what they want sometimes, it's 'too selfish' or whatever). Not entirely, but elements of that somewhat.

    You can over-cater to them. I did this once, and it made the NF feel very odd, uncomfortable, and they demanded (as much as possible I guess) that I present my own needs or wants more, so they could feel like they were catering to me. As opposed to me only catering to them.

    One in particular simply wasn't used to (IMO) being in a non-lopsided relationship, so some of me "being neutral" or showing care actually seemed odd to the person.

    But in general, it seems like part of coaxing out the NF's desires are to present some of your own, a few options, and involve them in the decision making process. That sort of gives the sense of it neither being totally oppressive or dictating on your part, and on their part, they aren't just being "babied" or whatever.


    Harsh words:
    It is very wise for anyone interacting with a delta NF that they are going to have various complexes about addressing their own needs. Yes, I'm going to use the infantile word here, too, be it much hated. There was a wonderful bit of writing about it somewhere, and if I can find it I'll put it here, but it explained all the different ways that infantiles can sort of react to this idea having their needs met. Sometimes they are very overt about it (_____), sometimes they hide behind shrouds of invisibility or other sort of ideologies that regulates things and keeps them at bay (____), sometimes they have a sort of 'counterphobic' take on things, where they reject the idea of vulnerability (____). I originally put names of forum members in those slots but for now I won't

    Point being, part of 'caring' involves understanding their whole psychological disposition towards receiving and being cared for. That's really the case for all relationships.

    But, in my experience, delta NFs are very picky about what they interpret as being cared for. (I think caregivers are appealing because they actually care to find out, as opposed to aggressors stating what their care looks like, or victims trying to draw out such a response - from NFs)


    PS: Sometime soon I want to write about something very curious to me in regard to this, and in regard to something about socionics that makes me value it immensely - it explained, basically, how a delta NF had developed a mechanism for dealing with an environment that wasn't really conducive to her well being.

  28. #28
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Remind you to take your meds.
    lol
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    I don't know if it's the type of relationships I've been in, but I actually have never felt like I am needing to be "taken cared" of. Like... ever. I also do not feel my interests and passions become threatened when someone interesting walks into my life, though I do know I become very focused on them. I don't at all relate to the stereotypical caregiver/infantile dynamic. I do know that I am very particular about certain things, I do have a comfort zone that I try to be open-minded about, but ultimately, there are just some things I need. I don't think they are unreasonable, so I don't see the other person really catering to me. The only time where "catering" towards a person happens is when one is sensitive about something and the other person isn't, and that has to be balanced out, and it's typically me being the sensitive one. But I don't like guys that make it seem like my preferences decide everything, that annoys me a LOT. I think in general everything should be 50/50 and balanced, and I expect to somehow be patient with the other person for being patient with me when I'm sensitive. But I don't think any of this is REALLY type related, it seems like surface qualities you hear about in young relationships. I"m very independent and take care of myself... I don't think and help "take care of me."

    ETA: Apparently this was my 1,000th post lol Should have dedicated it to something than a random observation Oh well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Delta NFs sometimes have this thing where they don't feel at all comfortable directly expressing what they want or even knowing what they want. (I kind of feel like they don't even want to accept or deal with knowing what they want sometimes, it's 'too selfish' or whatever). Not entirely, but elements of that somewhat.
    truth. for me.

    sort of like when i thought about giving a serious and well thought out response to this thread and totally drew a blank. :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    I wanted to throw out something in a different perspectives, thinking of IE interaction more than what is being discussed here:

    This might sound strange coming from an NeFi, but when it comes to a relationship with me (and I think with FiNe as well), there needs to be a certain type of consistency. When it comes to being donned with a certain relationship title (acquaintance, pal, best friend, partner), there are also automatically bestowed benefits that those who are not in said category do not receive. These sort of things we do naturally and don't look for a 1:1 give and take, but it does help expend some emotional energy, so to speak. As with every human relationship, there are expectations, and with the valuers, this comes in an unspoken expectation of what needs to be filled as a/n (insert acquaintance, pal, best friend, partner here). I believe NeFi and FiNe feel completely comfortable giving you the "benefits" of a certain type of relationship as long as you upkeep the base expectations of said title. Un/Fortunately, this changes from person to person, so one person might be big on communication and won't be any trouble if you stay in touch as often that makes them feel comfortable (I'm this way, and I remember Slackermom being this way as well), another will have another focus. If asked, the NeFi/FiNe most likely can lay out what it is that they expect without much trouble, and these expectations usually never change. I would say with a healthy NeFi/FiNe, there are just a constant couple of things to upkeep, and you are most likely free to maneuver to do whatever it is you want without worry.
    Yeah, I've noticed that, more or less.

    It's really nice. It scares me because someone is actually giving me what I want - "if I do this, then, I don't have to worry about things changing". It's hard for me to believe it.

    I've noticed that egos tend to willinginly keep -related "double-standards," which can lead a relationship to be lopsided (not to say the -ego can't, just an observation). This comes out in one instance asking your friend/partner to be clear about what they are feeling/thinking now that you've attained a certain closeness, but holding back what you are feeling/thinking; the -ego senses right away when there's something uneven going on. -egos tend to want to take in information and figure things out but not reciprocate because they haven't figured out exactly how to, but this frustrates the -ego who feels left in the dark.
    I've heard a lot of nfs complain about such here, mhm

    As a general overview (I find it harder and harder to really talk about mirrors together, they seem more different than similar to me sometimes) NeFi and FiNe will make blind leaps with - and -related information, and be seemingly oblivious about them other times. Seeing that their super-ID functions are the concrete and dynamic, these sudden bursts of trying to be more knowledgeable and proficient with and will be very tiring coming out of a "static" perspective, like jumping into a flowing river and trying to swim right direction and forgetting your water-wings. Sometimes it might seem like we're not putting in much effort, and there can be times that it appears melodramatic when we just shut down when we're discouraged. I've noticed that NeFi/FiNe that are treated like helpless children either start to mold themselves into that role or start to actively rebel, and neither are positive options.
    Yes, very much so.

    I've seen that happen with delta NFs (both types). This NF one grew up and is still in a very beta environment (meaning, things are solved with Se and Ti, to be more specific) - and she's exactly experiencing those things, BOTH of them. Part of her is caught up in this inadequacy feeling, the helpless ness, the pressure. Part of her is rebelling against it very strongly.

    But neither are very good for her. They are developed coping mechanisms and they are ultimately proving to be maladaptive for herself and for approaching other relationships. I think I was able to help her successfully diagnose what was going on, but, that remains to be seen.


    Same thing with another delta NF, who basically was not given relational closeness from either parents, so it was an odd sense of trying to find it elsewhere. Or, the reverse, actually, where one had such strong bonds with parents, that it was crippling because there was such a non-incentive to find such things outside of that immediate family.

    Though it might seem like you're going to escape it, there will be times the NeFi/FiNe will be frustrated at the lack of and observance when deeper in the relationship; there's no running from them!
    Truth, as per my experiences.

    But don't worry, as far as I can tell this is kept rather private and treated with patience. It's less of needing and from you, but sometimes it seems irritating because and are just so plain easy for us to see... Why aren't you seeing it too? This goes for all types really, it's something to ride through sensitively and not get hung up on. Meaning, the egos have to sometimes be aware of how they are and are not outwardly indicating what they feel in private with an -ego... I think how it goes is that the -ego think it's cute/fine that there's a complete lack of with everyone else, but with them... Well, c'mon now, cough it up. Same with , there will be times when the NeFi/FiNe will be bewildered that you don't have an understanding.
    Yeah.
    I suspect that STs can feel like they aren't good at it, but it doesn't matter - try it. NFs can be very encouraging and help you to get better at it. At least in my experience, trying is appreciated.

    I'm more curious by what you mean about understanding here. I wonder about that because I may be terrible and/or completely oblivious to it. So could you give an example of not having Ni understanding?


    I find myself constantly wanting to do two separate responses, the fact that the functions are mirrored makes a very big difference. So I'll stop here since I just had a random burst of typing in me
    That's fine. I think that was a good post.

  32. #32
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    You make them sound like they're sea monkeys or something.
    I know, right...

    So fucking obvious.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    Though it might seem like you're going to escape it, there will be times the NeFi/FiNe will be frustrated at the lack of and observance when deeper in the relationship; there's no running from them! But don't worry, as far as I can tell this is kept rather private and treated with patience. It's less of needing and from you, but sometimes it seems irritating because and are just so plain easy for us to see... Why aren't you seeing it too? This goes for all types really, it's something to ride through sensitively and not get hung up on. Meaning, the egos have to sometimes be aware of how they are and are not outwardly indicating what they feel in private with an -ego... I think how it goes is that the -ego think it's cute/fine that there's a complete lack of with everyone else, but with them... Well, c'mon now, cough it up. Same with , there will be times when the NeFi/FiNe will be bewildered that you don't have an understanding.
    hahahaha. roflmao. Fe-egos are the same with Fi. It's like. Okay, fine, you can be a jark to everyone else and step all over their emotions, but I know *i* don't have to physically show you every single emotion, RIGHT? Like, you can guess what I'M feeling and not hurt MY feelings, right? But eventually, the Fe-ego blows up (or melts down or whatever), has an emotional response and the problem is solved by pain on all sides, which is just necessary sometimes. I don't know how it works for Fi-egos.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    This thread really makes me think that it would not be fun at all to be delta. You guys are okay with these sorts of dynamics? You like it?

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    This thread really makes me think that it would not be fun at all to be delta. You guys are okay with these sorts of dynamics? You like it?
    What sort of dynamic are you observing? To be honest, I think there's a little too much role-playing going on here, but in general, Delta is obviously going to like , , , interactions as much as Betas like , , , and ones. You all have the same thing going on, just with opposite IAs. I think there's an over-emphasis with the Caregiver/Infantile roles here and in general, inter-Delta relationships don't work with the stereotypes provided by these words any more or less than any other quadra.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    I showed an LSE this thread, and asked him his opinion. He hates Socionics, but he had some thoughts. Here's our conversation:
    April you sound so cuddly! I want be your LSE now.

  37. #37
    Hello...? somavision's Avatar
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    Give me food and give me women, then clean up after me.
    Why?
    Because beneath everything else this is what I need and in return I give you all that I am.
    Could be seen as sexist. It's not meant to be.
    This should go in the thread "Caring for your lazy man"
    oh well
    IEE-Ne

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    truth. for me.

    sort of like when i thought about giving a serious and well thought out response to this thread and totally drew a blank. :wink:
    haha don't worry, I feel like that a lot too, and end-up spewing a lot of verbal diarrhea to compensate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    You can over-cater to them. I did this once, and it made the NF feel very odd, uncomfortable, and they demanded (as much as possible I guess) that I present my own needs or wants more, so they could feel like they were catering to me. As opposed to me only catering to them.
    I very much agree with them. There's a personal sense of relief when someone is more confident about what they want, and don't want, it helps to remove that feeling of needing to walk around on eggshells worrying and caring doubts about these types of things.
    I feel like I can than be more open with the other person about my own wants, which sort of goes with what you mentioned previously about not wanting to come across as selfish or pushy.
    Basically, I think it creates a sense of mutual understanding, equalizing the relationship
    EII INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by somavision View Post
    Give me food and give me women, then clean up after me.
    Why?
    Because beneath everything else this is what I need and in return I give you all that I am.
    Could be seen as sexist. It's not meant to be.
    This should go in the thread "Caring for your lazy man"
    oh well
    EII INFj
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  40. #40
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I've had this idea for a thread for a while so here it is.
    It's a good thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    There will be questions and discussion brought up about delta NFs that they can respond to. And I may share some of my experiences as well. In my mind this thread is geared towards delta STs understanding NFs better, but it could just become a general relationship question thread.
    there are few responses from actual ST's lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I know for myself I'm simply much more drawn to delta NF women than any other women, so, I have an interest in this topic. Also, as an optional suggestion, I'd like to see things addressed in more common terminology when possible. I say that because, in the context of a relationship or dealing with someone who doesn't know socionics, you're going to need to understand and convey and formulate thoughts without retreating into socionics speak.
    Good luck with that happening.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 08-20-2010 at 07:27 AM.

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