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Thread: type/function references in quotes?

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Default type/function references in quotes?

    Hi,
    I wasn't exactly sure where to post it, but I think this subforum is okay. I know that there is a theory about finding out valued/used functions based on the Vocabulary a person uses. So I wanted to ask if you get the impression of a special sociotype or function in those quotations. (Some of them might appear somewhat archaic, but I guess they are understandable.)

    Here they are:
    "The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."
    "Reliance upon others is weakness for the strong, but strength for the weak. Wisdom and balance lie in knowing your own nature over time."
    "The man who only learns what others know is as ignorant as if he learnt nothing. The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
    "To manipulate a man is a careful project. Too light a hand, and he follows his own whim; too heavy a hand, and he will turn on you."
    "Vigilance is our shield that protects us from the squalid past, knowledge is our weapon with which we carve our path to an enlightened future."
    "When we looked at the relics of the precursors, we saw the heights civilization can attain. When we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height."
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    + ?

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    + ?
    Thank you. I though similarly. Maybe there are more (or identical) opinions...
    Last edited by Pa3s; 08-18-2010 at 08:43 PM.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Marie84's Avatar
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    sounds Beta
    EII INFj
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    The Greeter's Avatar
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    Why Ti?

    I would actually consider this more Gamma than Beta.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    I think IEI seems most likely, based on the data presented. There's a strong focus on Ni -- themes of balance and a propensity for mirrored/inverted statements, plus a focus on how things develop over time (how one develops over time after embracing a cause, "knowing your nature over time", how the effects of too much or two little manipulation develop over time, questions of how the past affects the future).

    I think IEI instead of ILI for two reasons: there is little specific practical advice, and instead a general focus on "what's going on inside". Plus, the advice on manipulating people is quite IEI -- using the knowledge of how things develop over time to influence people's internal dynamics.

    EIE would be the other main possibility, I think.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Why Ti?
    I would actually consider this more Gamma than Beta.
    I wanted to say it's the I see, too. Not necessarily . I'd also assume Gamma > Beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I would lean β for this person, though γ would be the 2nd-runner up. In the least, I would be surprised if they weren't / valuing.

    Who are these quotes from?
    Thanks. Well, it's from a game, Thief. I know I already have a thread of that in Personas Famosas, sorry. But I made a new one because I didn't want you to be biased by my own typing of the "Keepers". This is a faction of the game which stands between the chaotic Pagans and the lawful and religious Hammerites. They're a secret organasition which keeps the balance between the two forces of nature and technology in the city. The Keepers do everything to stay secret, and only act if it's necessary. Furthermore, they trust prophecies and have a very mystic and acient appearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I think IEI seems most likely, based on the data presented. There's a strong focus on Ni...

    I think IEI instead of ILI for two reasons: there is little specific practical advice, and instead a general focus on "what's going on inside". Plus, the advice on manipulating people is quite IEI -- using the knowledge of how things develop over time to influence people's internal dynamics.

    EIE would be the other main possibility, I think.
    Alright, I think we can record that there is a distinct tendency towards Ni. That's also what I thought at the beginning. But I'm not so sure about ILI/IEI. I admit you're correct about the statement about manipulation, but I don't think ILI necessarily give practical advices. If I had to assign an Enneagramm type to that statements I would say E5. (The quote ""Vigilance is our shield that protects us [...]" and "[...] The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly." appear to be very E5-like.)
    I doubt they are extrovert...
    Last edited by Pa3s; 08-19-2010 at 02:55 PM.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    I think its mostly mumbo jumbo, useless information. Yoda speak. LII/ILI are both guilty of this in my expirence. New age hippy bullshit to make oneself look cool from a distance.
    People who qoute like this in actuality, without any other information than the qoute itself are particuarly annoying. For instance if we had a conversation about governments then you said "The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit." And that all you said I would say back umbass you are.
    That particular phrase sounds ILI too, riddding themselves of any emotional passion or cause.

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    @ Jughead:
    I know what you mean. Well, I have taken them out of their context, just to see where they "belong". With some imagination you could see much in these statements, otherwise you'll consider them useless. I didn't want to use them myself in any discussion anyway. Besides that, it's from a video game. So it actually should make those people look cool.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Why Ti?

    I would actually consider this more Gamma than Beta.
    i thought the first quote might be Fi devaluing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    I think its mostly mumbo jumbo, useless information. Yoda speak.
    lol yeah, i agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i thought the first quote might be Fi devaluing.
    I didn't consider that, but it actually seems correct.

    I guess it's hard to assign just one sociotype to a whole group of persons, that's why I wanted to know which functions could be used here.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i thought the first quote might be Fi devaluing.
    "The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."
    The reason I considered this Fe de-valuing is, when I take into consideration the context, it seems to warn its audience against passion, which goes against Fe (the Beta kind, in particular). While the words "fond" and "spiteful" are associated with Fi, they result from a Fe type of mentality; that is, an embrace of a higher cause, of which all that goes against it, are inferior (spite). One loses their balance when one is too passionate.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    The reason I considered this Fe de-valuing is, when I take into consideration the context, it seems to warn its audience against passion, which goes against Fe (the Beta kind, in particular). While the words "fond" and "spiteful" are associated with Fi, they result from a Fe type of mentality; that is, an embrace of a higher cause, of which all that goes against it, are inferior (spite). One loses their balance when one is too passionate.
    i actually was considering that sort of interpretation after your question. i don't know which way of looking at it is correct. i could buy this too.

    i was looking at it more like the person was saying that having emotional biases causes a "dependency of spirit," like an independence that is lost when you become attached to something, like you're bound to it. when they said "to lose one's balance" i imagined someone having an emotional pull towards something instead of looking at it straight-on and unencumbered.

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    @ The Greeter

    That's a good analysis, thanks. It could also be a statement against F in general. As you said, it makes people lose their balance, which is their central issue. This group of persons appears to be extremely rational and passive.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Ti ESTp?
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
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    laghlagh, when you stated your interpretation, I also thought it may be correct.

    But I think MegaDoomer is probably the closest to the correct answer:


    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    @ The Greeter
    That's a good analysis, thanks. It could also be a statement against F in general. As you said, it makes people lose their balance, which is their central issue. This group of persons appears to be extremely rational and passive.
    I think you are right. Definitely a thinker's perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Ti ESTp?
    Yeah, could be an intellectually-oriented Ti ESTp.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I think gamma?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    The reason I considered this Fe de-valuing is, when I take into consideration the context, it seems to warn its audience against passion, which goes against Fe (the Beta kind, in particular). While the words "fond" and "spiteful" are associated with Fi, they result from a Fe type of mentality; that is, an embrace of a higher cause, of which all that goes against it, are inferior (spite). One loses their balance when one is too passionate.
    good point, Gamma may actually be more likely, I just was too lost in a haze of Se/Ni to notice the Fi

    btw, MD, I'm curious to hear who said these quotes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    btw, MD, I'm curious to hear who said these quotes?
    I said it in a post above, but no problem, here is it:
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    Well, it's from a game, Thief. I know I already have a thread of that in Personas Famosas, sorry. But I made a new one because I didn't want you to be biased by my own typing of the "Keepers". This is a faction of the game which stands between the chaotic Pagans and the lawful and religious Hammerites. They're a secret organasition which keeps the balance between the two forces of nature and technology in the city. The Keepers do everything to stay secret, and only act if it's necessary. Furthermore, they trust prophecies and have a very mystic and acient appearance.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    I said it in a post above, but no problem, here is it:
    Thanks for clearing that up MD, sorry I missed your previous post
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    I agree 2000% with the quote about manipulation. It's like inception. You have to have just enough and not too much.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    I agree 2000% with the quote about manipulation.
    You see, it's not just 'Yoda Speak'. Well, I actually like those quotes and 'pearls of wisdom', you can interpret them like you want or think it's right. And if you don't agree, you don't have to.

    Okay, that means it's definitely in it and it's devaluing F, mostly . Could be Gamma NT. Thanks to everyone for the help.

    If anyone is interested I could also post some quotes of another faction from the game for function analysis. Actually, I liked their sayings more than those which I posted here.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    I either find all of those quotes to be either impossible to read grammatically, useless/superfluous information, or just gibberish. Beta works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    The reason I considered this Fe de-valuing is, when I take into consideration the context, it seems to warn its audience against passion, which goes against Fe (the Beta kind, in particular). While the words "fond" and "spiteful" are associated with Fi, they result from a Fe type of mentality; that is, an embrace of a higher cause, of which all that goes against it, are inferior (spite). One loses their balance when one is too passionate.
    I get what you're saying about the Fe mentality, but I think you'll find this much less pronounced in p-sub betas, specifically irrationals. the emphasis there is on concentrating emotion in order to solidify the 'vision's' manifestation, so you're not as likely to see explicit signs of a cause mentality -- the opposing need for detachment goes hand in hand with the resigned attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i was looking at it more like the person was saying that having emotional biases causes a "dependency of spirit," like an independence that is lost when you become attached to something, like you're bound to it. when they said "to lose one's balance" i imagined someone having an emotional pull towards something instead of looking at it straight-on and unencumbered.
    this is how I saw it, as well.

    ultimately, I could see tinges of gamma p-sub attitudes, but there's too much spiritual concern, almost ideological sanctity, for that. along with the talk of manipulation, it suggests a distant maintenance of the Ti/Fe social structure within chaotic conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    I find this impossible to read grammatically. There are two "either" but only one "or".
    Haha, checkmate!
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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