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Thread: ENFP type descriptions

  1. #1
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    Default ENFP type descriptions

    @all ENFPs: Topaz posted this in another thread and it made me think: wouldn't it be fun to have ENFp type descriptions? Stuff that's fun, fast-paced, colourful, and not really meant too seriously? Like the Beta thread with added confetti and light effects? What do you all think? Please give it a try. I'm crap at writing type descriptions, and the thought of having to do more than one has me clutching my throat, so please...

    I'll just post Topaz' description (he's allowed me to quote him) and see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    ENFJs are driven by goals. Usually they have 'their' people, the ones they have gathered whom they trust and enjoy, create and solve problems for and lecture. They like to lavish praise and attention to these people and expect lots of praise and attention in return. They will organize excursions, projects, poetry readings etc. They like big people, big ideas, and big places. They think of themselves as part of an elite class of nobles who bring special gifts to mankind. Dont stand in the way of their goodness or they will get demonic. The ENFJ is remarkable in a way that I am coming to understand more and more. They can bend reality. In their mind the world should be a certain way and they use all their theatrics and scheming to bring it about. Many are quite successfull at doing it too. They are a little bit crazy too. No, Im serious.
    Now INFPs. They look so innocent and docile. They arent trying to lead anyone. Where would they lead them to? They ARE crazy and they dont mind letting people know it. That way you wont ask too much from them because " Look, I told you I'm crazy. Leave me alone". Their job is to ask and ask and ask. They ask about themselves and everyone else. They bring up concerns in the way of questions. Even if they get the answer they wont be satisfied. It incites more questions. Sometimes they run out of questions. "Whats wrong with me?" they ask. "Why dont I have anymore questions? Have I stopped growing? Is this it for me? What should I do now?......." INFP, chill.
    They are not charging forth like the ENFJ Super Man/Woman. They are the lost Prince/ Princess locked in the castle or made to wander in the forest or sleep for a thousand years until the brave hero/ heroine finds them and kisses them (it doesnt stop there.. )
    Ive seen ENFJs looking for disciples come across INFP wanderers. They form a tight team with the ENFJ leading his/her disciples into all manner of activities (some legal) and the INFP as the right hand man/woman adviser and confidant (flunky). Sometimes they are an inseperable team for a time. The aimless INFP takes delight in all the adventures the ENFJ get them into. The ENFJ feels the INFP gives his mission depth and credibility since he is so busy he can hardly slow down to build the kind of artistic integrity, aristocrazy oops, aristorcracy... that and INFP will like to portray.

    There are lots of brands of ENFJs that Ive come to know. There is the Show Biz kind (very dramatic and flamboyant, will sing at any party, devoid of talent) Theres the 'Im just a normal person kind' ( insightful, repressed, compulsive) Theres the 'business' kind (desire to be rich, brown nose, watch your back, yes man) Theres the 'Dark' kind (stay away from these or be prepared to shave your head and join his cult) and then theres the 'highschool/ college professor (you'll have to read Shakespear and Street Car Named Desire and spend lots of time delving into sexual symbolism)
    There are two kinds of INFPs. The Slutty ones and the Virtuous ones with fantasys of being ravaged Razz Not nessecarily in that order. All of them are spacey, cute and artsy (or just good at faking it) Bring handcuffs.

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    nice idea. fight those damned Ti descriptions.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    nice idea. fight those damned Ti descriptions.
    Rocky <3
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    The ISTJ by Topaz

    ISTJ- Youre late. Youve been late everyday.
    ENFP- You said 3
    ISTJ - Its 3:02
    ENFP - Its 3. Let me see your watch.
    ISTJ - You dont need to see my watch. Its 3:02
    ENFP - Well it probably is now!
    ISTJ - Why are you late?
    ENFP- Im not late! Plus I had a lot to do.
    ISTJ-......... like.......?

    ENFP - I had to do my laundry and I had to pick up some stuff from the store. Plus its raining and the traffic is horrendous.

    ISTJ shaking head- You didnt plan did you? You always wait till the last minute to do everything. Now youre late. I had to wait. I could have been doing other things. I dont have time to wait for you. What if everybody just ran nilly willy. Nothing would get done. Now look at the time. Next time Im just leaving without you. You have no respect for other people's time.

    ENFP -*sigh* Look Im sorry. Can we just get going.

    ISTj - I should call this wedding off right now! Alright, Cmon. but dont be late again. *gives ENFP a kiss* I love you. You just make me so mad sometimes.

    ENFP- I love you too.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Oh god my dad (ENFj) is so like that with promptness too. It kills me. I'm *always* late in his estimation, yet I'm almost always within about 5 minutes of the right time. How is that late? I mean like if he says 3 he means precisely 3:00 by some clock that is regularly standardized to a satellite somewhere. If I get there at 3:02, even if the clock in my car says 2:58, I am late and I have been terribly rude and inconsiderate.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    The ISFj. A description based on insufficient data and heavily influenced by subjective personal experience.

    Are they really our supervisees? Nuh uh. I don't think so. Neither do they. ISFjs supervise everybody else. Always.

    "She should stand up to her husband more, that would be better for the kids. Her parents were very strict, so no wonder she's never learned to be assertive. She shouldn't have married straight after leaving school."
    "I told Mrs XY she should let her kids have her car sometimes. How are they going to learn how to drive if they never get her car?"
    "Mrs A and Mrs B were gossipping again about the C family. I didn't say anything, but I think they noticed that I don't approve. Nowadays they stop gossipping whenever I come."


    ISFjs quite like ENFps, provided they buck up and get their act together. We only need to become less... weird, less... undisciplined, then we'd be worthy and useful members of society. ISFjs are tactful people who live for others, and are often quite ready to help us see the light. Before you notice it, you can feel yourself being gently steered into the direction of becoming an ISFj. Think of Disney's first Jungle Book movie, where the snake tries to hypnotize Mogli. "Trusssst in meeeee..." You'll instinctively pick up their priorities, their view as to what you should be like. You should be like them.
    • 1. On time. See Topaz ISTj description. Only difference: with ISFjs you're allowed to be late if you've done something terribly important and sensible that benefits others. That is forgivable. Being late because you've surfed the internet is not.

      2. Neat, well-groomed, prettily dressed, nothing showy, nothing weird.


      3. Sober, sensible, quiet. A good little girl. That point depends on whether the ISFj is in touch with his/her inner wild child. They can be flirtateous party animals (once all the chores are done, of course), and if they've had the chance to develop that side, they'll be a bit more tolerant of other people who want to have some fun. Even so, they'll always be a Doris Day to your Freddie Mercury.

      4. Sequential, thorough, and painstaking. [You begin your housework at the beginning, do it to the end, and then see if you've forgotten anything. IS THAT SO DIFFICULT?! Why would anyone want to spend five entire minutes picking out the right CD to listen while cleaning the windows? And why would anyone want to clean the windows while simultaneously making a cake and writing a story?! THIS IS NOT HOW YOU DO IT. Even if it (strangely enough) achieves results - it's not how you do it.]

      5. That neatly brings us to this point: Doing things the way they ought to be done. There is always a way things out to be done. It's usually the OLD way. Tested and tried, time-honoured, venerable, and utterly utterly BORING. If you're bored to tears and feel that life is grey and pallid, then you've probably slipped into doing things the way an ISFj would do them.

      6. Socially correct. They might blow their top if they see someone behave in a blatantly unethical way, but they'll always know what the socially acceptable behaviour would have been. If you deal with an ISFj, you might want to invest in one of those little gadgets that bleep to remind you of important dates. Like everyone's birthday.
      "It's auntie A's birthday next week."
      "I haven't seen her these twenty years at least, Mum."
      "I think she would like to get a birthday card."
      "Does ISTp brother write a card?"
      "She doesn't get very many cards, you know, and she's quite lonely nowadays."
      *heavy sigh* "OK, OK..."
      ...see what I mean? "Trussssssssst in meeeeee..." When you're with an ISFj, you'll probably end up being cajoled a lot.

    All in all, ISFjs are nice people, though. Once their "to do" list is done, they're people who know how to have fun and let their hair down (genteelly, of course), and they've got a good sense of humour. They're biggest plus is that they're very very ethical. They don't theorize about ethics, they live them. Joan of Arc with a nicer hairdo and a box of brownies. Doris Day on a cruzade. If you're on their "list of people I care about" and you're in any kind of need, then congratulations - you've found yourself an ally, a bringer of chicken soup, a sender of get-well-cards, a champion for your rights, and... well, also a dispenser of good advice... yes, I know... but now that I'm 34 and have learned to deal with ISFj advice using my brother's strategy (as I've mentioned elsewhere, he usually tickles the person's chin and says "ootchee-gootchee-goo!"), I can afford to admit: the really bad thing about an ISFj's advice is that they're so often right. But shshshsh... we'll keep that to ourselves.

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    That's overall a good description, if incomplete.

    However:

    Are they really our supervisors? Nuh uh. I don't think so. Neither do they. ISFjs supervise everybody else. Always.
    Actually, Cat, the ENFp is the ISFj's supervisor. Their PoLR stands helpless against you -- which is exactly what you showed when writing the thread.

    The ISFj supervises the ESTp -- which should show (once again) that the ISFjs are not weaklings. Their sees all the flaws of the ESTp and they're not afraid of their .
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky
    Oh god my dad (ENFj) is so like that with promptness too. It kills me. I'm *always* late in his estimation, yet I'm almost always within about 5 minutes of the right time. How is that late? I mean like if he says 3 he means precisely 3:00 by some clock that is regularly standardized to a satellite somewhere. If I get there at 3:02, even if the clock in my car says 2:58, I am late and I have been terribly rude and inconsiderate.
    I only bitch about lateness when it is 30min+ like when my brother was late for my birthday one year by an hour. He has us all meet at a restraunt that he choose because it was super nice.... and he fell asleep lol. I was so pissed =p We were all waiting there like, "so yeahhhhhh.... he'll be here any second now waitress lady ma'am person...."

    So it is not lateness by one minute that pisses me off. It is when specific people are unreliable continuous times that bring about , "oh come on, wtf?" moments one too many times.

    The ironny is that Im usually bitching at the ISTj friend about time. Unlike me, she has to see every single thing possible in consecutive order when going somewhere whereas I already look for what I know I care about and bee line it. In contrast, she bitches at me for uhmmm.... how do we say..... curious driving lol. I have a bad habit of taking a lot of detours every time I become curious so my car trips can get quite random at times. I'll even take alternate ways around to curb boredom or skip bad traffic. That is beyond annoying to her. Oh and lol.... always timing a theatre trip to arrive exactly when the preveiws are over lol. Im sorry but I dont want to watch 50 million commercials on a giant screen.

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    Ha my dad does the "curious driving" thing too. We called it the dad route. There's the direct route, the scenic route, and the dad route (which changes each time).

    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    That's overall a good description, if incomplete.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    However:

    Are they really our supervisors? Nuh uh. I don't think so. Neither do they. ISFjs supervise everybody else. Always.
    Actually, Cat, the ENFp is the ISFj's supervisor.
    You're right. I realized that as soon as I'd left the house to go to the park with my little daughter. It's corrected now.

  12. #12
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    My ENFp friend loves Sunday drives. I just remembered that. She usually stays on course in her regular days (she doesnt care as long as the cell phone is glued to her ear haha) but every once in a while she gets a bug up her ass and will take a country road or whatever. We've ended up at the beach a few times due to that lol.

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    @implied: thanks. Glad you liked it. It's based on very insufficient data, so I'm glad to find that some of it seems to be true for more than one ISFj.

    As for the party animal thing: my Mum used to be like this when she was younger. Back then, people didn't "date"; if you were dating a guy, that already implied a serious romantic interest. She dated a guy because he had a convertible and she wanted to get a few rides. Isn't it astonishing? I've got this impression: ISFjs do enjoy a bit of fun and roguery, provided they feel entitled to it (f.expl. because they're convinced they've deserved it, or because they know it won't do anyone any harm, or because it's done the right way in the right environment).

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    I've added a poll. Nothing much is happening here anyway, so we can just as well have some fun. As you'll note, I've added several options for Delta, one for Beta and one specifically for INTjs.

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    I'm ENTj and I voted for the INTj one
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    If any ENFp feels compelled to drop a few random hints on how he/she perceives another type: feel free to do so. Dammit. Look, I'll even bribe you. You post a description, I'll post a link to the "Gallery of Regrettable Food". Yes?

    And there'll be a thank-you post full of emoticons. :wink: :wink: -- all of these. Good?

    Lots of fun types still to describe. ISTps! ENFps! INFjs! ESTjs! Fun and games! Coffee will be served in the interval.

    Pleeeeeeeeeeeease...

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    I'd listen if one of you ENFPs would do an ISTP one. Shroodinger's Cat, maybe you? You have the ISTP brother and all, and I enjoy your posts.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    @Rocky: thanks. Glad you like them. I'll see if I'll do an ISTp description tomorrow.

    @ENFps: That still leaves... err... twelve (?) types still to go (too lazy to count), so... isn't anyone interested in the Gallery of Regrettable Food? Remember, this is a NeFi thread. You don't have to be sequential. Or conventional. Just ramble. Or post a descriptions entirely made up of emoticons. Or of quotations, pictures, theme songs, whatever. I'd so like to see what true NeFi type descriptions can be like.

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    My ISTj cousin was diagnosed with cancer, and it's made me think of how wonderful she is. Mind you, she still gets on my nerves with her... her ISTjness. When she goes on holiday she starts packing three days beforehand. That way she has plenty of time to see if she's forgotten something. Argh. If I had to vote "person I'd least like to live with because we'd drive each other up the wall", she'd be in my top ten. It just wouldn't work.

    But I've always liked her. We wouldn't get along, and she's pretty scary sometimes, but I know she's a great woman. She leads such a healthy, active life. Eats sensibly, does karate, goes for long walks (like, straight through the Black Forest for a few days). Enviable. She analyzes a situation, decides on the best course of action, then acts. Just like that. As if it were easy. Wow. Mind you, she also expects that from everyone else, which is where the trouble starts... but as a quality, it's enviable.

    The only bit where she's worse than I am is, I'm more adventurous. She's very cautious and sometimes that has hindered her. Other than that, she really does analyze her life, decide on what she wants, and then she does it. I'm better at just taking a plunge, but that's all.

    You often hear about ENFp's zest for life. She has it too, so I think it's general with ISTjs. She loves life. Especially the real, material side of it. Exercising and hiking are a way of experiencing life - the scenery, the smells of woodland, even the sensation of having very sore feet, all of that. She's a marvellous teller of anecdotes: when she talks about something that happened to her, it's like she's back in the moment, re-living it, and that makes for some vivid, interesting and hilarious story-telling. Usually she has us all in stitches.

    Her flat is (a) impeccable (of course - what else!), but also (b) very comfortable and welcoming, and her furniture and stuff isn't just functional, it's also very beautiful and interesting. It's nothing faceless or off-the-peg. When she decides to cook dinner for you, you're a very fortunate person, because her dinners are great. She's got a great dress sense and knows how to make the best of her looks, but in a way that's always classy and elegant in a sporty, timeless, understated sort of way.

    She's so different in private life. She used to teach, and her pupils respected her but thought she was very strict and totally devoid of any sense of fun or humour. I know better. She loves having fun, and she loves to enjoy life. Work, however, is not about having fun or enjoying life, is it? Work is about work. She shares this view with my ISFj Mum, and together they make you think that "if you haven't been suffering, you haven't been working" - but that's a side-effect and it's only bad because I'm different and can't function their way. In itself it's as OK a point of view as any other.

    What would also surprise her pupils is that she's very good with people. Wherever she is, she usually finds someone to talk to. Of course she drifts towards sane, responsible, disciplined people, but she's able to talk to almost everyone. Even if she finds it hard to relate to someone, she's still able to be polite. She's a very loyal, affectionate friend; no one who likes you this moment and dumps you the next. Most of her friendships go way back.

    Even the bits that get on my nerve have their upsides. Her obsession with getting details just right, with following the right procedure... She's a nurse, and if I had to pick a nurse to watch over me in an ER, I'd pick an ISTj. Whenever I've got trouble liking ISTjs, one rhetorical queston usually does the trick, and I'll be a nice person and share it with you.

    What type would you like to be in control of nuclear power stations?

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    SC that was beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing it. I have an ISTJ friend that I treasure for many of the same qualities.
    I did like your ISFJ description though Joan of Arc with a tissue Box, hilarious.
    I think ISFJs are alot harder on their daughters than on their sons though. My mom is a ISFJ, kind of a laid back one though, which I cant reconcile Anyway, I think my older sister and brothers wore her out so by the time it came to me she was tow up.

    The only time I have difficulty with ISTJs is in the work setting, esp if they are the boss. Outside of that we get along fine but Ive never lived with one either so who knows.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    SC that was beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing it. I have an ISTJ friend that I treasure for many of the same qualities.
    You're welcome. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    I think ISFJs are alot harder on their daughters than on their sons though. My mom is a ISFJ, kind of a laid back one though, which I cant reconcile Anyway, I think my older sister and brothers wore her out so by the time it came to me she was tow up.
    Poor lady. And lucky you! I'm a daughter and I'm the eldest... I also had the impression she expected more of myself than of my brother, but that could be because I'm (obviously) the same sex as herself. It's probably hard to teach your daughter how to be a woman without also teaching her how to be an ISFj woman (or whatever).

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    Wow, Schroedinger's cat, these are great descriptions! I don't know much about ISFjs, but I find the ISTj description very accurate.
    me

  23. #23
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    I was trying to imagine how I would react to this:

    "My ISTj cousin was diagnosed with cancer, and it's made me think of how wonderful she is. Mind you, she still gets on my nerves with her... her ISTjness. When she goes on holiday she starts packing three days beforehand. That way she has plenty of time to see if she's forgotten something. Argh. If I had to vote "person I'd least like to live with because we'd drive each other up the wall", she'd be in my top ten. It just wouldn't work. "-SC

    I'd probablly say: "You have got to be kidding me" and then laugh lol.


    "But I've always liked her. We wouldn't get along, and she's pretty scary sometimes, but I know she's a great woman. She leads such a healthy, active life. Eats sensibly, does karate, goes for long walks (like, straight through the Black Forest for a few days). Enviable. She analyzes a situation, decides on the best course of action, then acts. Just like that. As if it were easy. Wow. Mind you, she also expects that from everyone else, which is where the trouble starts... but as a quality, it's enviable. " -SC

    I'd probably say: Well..I wouldnt say anything. Kinda boring cept for the walks.

    "The only bit where she's worse than I am is, I'm more adventurous. She's very cautious and sometimes that has hindered her. Other than that, she really does analyze her life, decide on what she wants, and then she does it. I'm better at just taking a plunge, but that's all. "-SC

    I'd probably say: "haha you wimp get your ass over here ya wuss!" and begin taunting.

    Im gonna get my ass kicked one of these days =/

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    I've chickened out a few times, but here goes... Another crappy type description on the basis of insufficient data. And it's.... *drumroll*

    Our silent friend, the ISTp. Also known as the Loch Ness Monster. Think about it:
    - they do exist, but they're hard to find (duals are like that, they say);
    - they love privacy and need lots of alone time, usually without telling anyone where they're going: one moment they're here, the next... SPLOOOOSH... "where's he gone?!"
    - they're untameable;
    - they're very hard to really get to know.

    Or think of Bagheera from the first animated Jungle Book movie. Silent. Competent. Loyal. Responsible. Unflappable. And secretly aware of the fact that everyone except himself is behaving like a total moron. He doesn't make a huge fuss about that, of course. He'll raise an eyebrow, perhaps. He might offer some assistance to avert disaster. ("Point the gun away from yourself, buddy.") You might occasionally hear a slight sigh of total exasperation. That's usually all. But still, in his heart of hearts, the ISTp knows that he's surrounded by idiots. He's aware of this because he knows how a job should be done (or cake baked, or bassline played, or car driven, or whatever). It's not an opinion he's formed. It's something he knows. You look up: you see the sky is blue. You look at cheesecake: you see that it's not meant to contain raisins. Simple. Easy. Raisins are despicable anyway, and in a cheesecake they go soggy and squidgy, therefore: no raisins. A simple fact of life. A natural law. Tell him he's opinionated and he'll feel misunderstood. Rightfully so. It's not an opinion, it's knowledge. Being an ISTp is like driving a Mercedes, you just know you're in the right.

    How can anyone be so genuinely tolerant while also having such an unshakeable belief in one's own perceptions? Luckily for us, ISTps don't want to convert anyone to their point of view. Others are welcome to commit whatever idiocies they want, as long as they don't interfere with the ISTp's business. ISTps need freedom, lots of it, and they hate it whenever anyone bosses them around or limits their options. It makes them become silent, grow fur and fangs, and vanish into the woods to howl at the moon a little.

    Thou Shalt Not Interfere.

    Hence, an ISTp is very capable of standing by and watching you do all the work, and when you finally ask them what the heck they're doing, they'll say: "Well, you were doing it - I didn't want to interfere." On the upside, they'll let you do a lot of stuff they heartily disagree with, provided you don't force them to do it likewise. Say you want to paint your flat yellow with bright red spots: he'll help you do it. It's your life, you've got to do what you think is best, even if it IS idiotic. Tell him to paint his flat like that: doesn't work. You can just as well try running your head through a brick wall. No chance.

    Mature, happy ISTps have another reason for not interfering: their genuine politeness. The ISTps I know are courteous and gentleman-like in a quiet, unostentatious way. The sort of person who helps the weak, protects the afflicted, and quietly endures Auntie Ethel's vicious raisin-studded cheesecake and even thanks her for it and says it was good, just to avoid hurting her feelings. If you're in need, they're there. The ones I know are both in their 30s, and both have best mates that they first met in primary school. The friendships work on a tacit understanding that (a) you don't interfere in your mate's business, (b) you don't ask anything unreasonable of him, and (c) if he needs your help you're there. If the guy calls you at night: "Listen, I'm in hospital, and I'm due to move house tomorrow and no one else will do it for me, will you come?" You're there. And I don't get the impression that the ISTps do it in order to feel good about themselves. They just do it. End of story. No tit-for-tat business.

    ISTps are often open-minded and well-informed. For them, realizing that something is idiotic doesn't automatically trigger a desire to do something about it, and that way they can listen to someone, giving that person the impression they agree with him, when in actual fact they've already formed a strong opinion of their own. They're just not saying it, that's all. I've found that ISTps usually look at things from various angles, so their opinions are often complex and supported with lots of facts.

    ISTps seem to love
    -- food. Good food. What "good" is differs from ISTp to ISTp, but they're usually willing to tell you and talk about it at great length. ISTps who like beer can develop a discernment you only find in oenologists. ("This is unfiltered, sligthly bitter, with overtones of lemon and spring water. 2005 was a very good year for Pilsner beer.")
    -- sex.
    -- computer games that involve reckless driving and/or killing people.
    -- whackiness.
    -- small children.
    -- guitars.

    Their idea of hell is
    -- being asked what they feel. (They have two feelings they know of: "good" and "bad".)
    -- marrying someone who has the right tupperware container for everything.
    -- being exposed to high-faluting esoteric psychobabble or to other kinds of piffle.
    -- hearing a guitar is out of tune and being unable to do something about it.

    ISTps can give the most sceptical looks I have ever seen anyone give.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    That was an excellent description!
    I concur! Fabulous! 'Tis is so true and I just love your writing!
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Thank you. Glad you two like it. Now I'm waiting for the ISTps' reactions. I'm terrified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    I've chickened out a few times, but here goes... Another crappy type description on the basis of insufficient data. And it's.... *drumroll*

    Our silent friend, the ISTp. Also known as the Loch Ness Monster. Think about it:
    - they do exist, but they're hard to find (duals are like that, they say);
    - they love privacy and need lots of alone time, usually without telling anyone where they're going: one moment they're here, the next... SPLOOOOSH... "where's he gone?!"
    - they're untameable;
    - they're very hard to really get to know.

    Or think of Bagheera from the first animated Jungle Book movie. Silent. Competent. Loyal. Responsible. Unflappable. And secretly aware of the fact that everyone except himself is behaving like a total moron. He doesn't make a huge fuss about that, of course. He'll raise an eyebrow, perhaps. He might offer some assistance to avert disaster. ("Point the gun away from yourself, buddy.") You might occasionally hear a slight sigh of total exasperation. That's usually all. But still, in his heart of hearts, the ISTp knows that he's surrounded by idiots. He's aware of this because he knows how a job should be done (or cake baked, or bassline played, or car driven, or whatever). It's not an opinion he's formed. It's something he knows. You look up: you see the sky is blue. You look at cheesecake: you see that it's not meant to contain raisins. Simple. Easy. Raisins are despicable anyway, and in a cheesecake they go soggy and squidgy, therefore: no raisins. A simple fact of life. A natural law. Tell him he's opinionated and he'll feel misunderstood. Rightfully so. It's not an opinion, it's knowledge. Being an ISTp is like driving a Mercedes, you just know you're in the right.

    How can anyone be so genuinely tolerant while also having such an unshakeable belief in one's own perceptions? Luckily for us, ISTps don't want to convert anyone to their point of view. Others are welcome to commit whatever idiocies they want, as long as they don't interfere with the ISTp's business. ISTps need freedom, lots of it, and they hate it whenever anyone bosses them around or limits their options. It makes them become silent, grow fur and fangs, and vanish into the woods to howl at the moon a little.

    Thou Shalt Not Interfere.

    Hence, an ISTp is very capable of standing by and watching you do all the work, and when you finally ask them what the heck they're doing, they'll say: "Well, you were doing it - I didn't want to interfere." On the upside, they'll let you do a lot of stuff they heartily disagree with, provided you don't force them to do it likewise. Say you want to paint your flat yellow with bright red spots: he'll help you do it. It's your life, you've got to do what you think is best, even if it IS idiotic. Tell him to paint his flat like that: doesn't work. You can just as well try running your head through a brick wall. No chance.

    Mature, happy ISTps have another reason for not interfering: their genuine politeness. The ISTps I know are courteous and gentleman-like in a quiet, unostentatious way. The sort of person who helps the weak, protects the afflicted, and quietly endures Auntie Ethel's vicious raisin-studded cheesecake and even thanks her for it and says it was good, just to avoid hurting her feelings. If you're in need, they're there. The ones I know are both in their 30s, and both have best mates that they first met in primary school. The friendships work on a tacit understanding that (a) you don't interfere in your mate's business, (b) you don't ask anything unreasonable of him, and (c) if he needs your help you're there. If the guy calls you at night: "Listen, I'm in hospital, and I'm due to move house tomorrow and no one else will do it for me, will you come?" You're there. And I don't get the impression that the ISTps do it in order to feel good about themselves. They just do it. End of story. No tit-for-tat business.

    ISTps are often open-minded and well-informed. For them, realizing that something is idiotic doesn't automatically trigger a desire to do something about it, and that way they can listen to someone, giving that person the impression they agree with him, when in actual fact they've already formed a strong opinion of their own. They're just not saying it, that's all. I've found that ISTps usually look at things from various angles, so their opinions are often complex and supported with lots of facts.

    ISTps seem to love
    -- food. Good food. What "good" is differs from ISTp to ISTp, but they're usually willing to tell you and talk about it at great length. ISTps who like beer can develop a discernment you only find in oenologists. ("This is unfiltered, sligthly bitter, with overtones of lemon and spring water. 2005 was a very good year for Pilsner beer.")
    -- sex.
    -- computer games that involve reckless driving and/or killing people.
    -- whackiness.
    -- small children.
    -- guitars.

    Their idea of hell is
    -- being asked what they feel. (They have two feelings they know of: "good" and "bad".)
    -- marrying someone who has the right tupperware container for everything.
    -- being exposed to high-faluting esoteric psychobabble or to other kinds of piffle.
    -- hearing a guitar is out of tune and being unable to do something about it.

    ISTps can give the most sceptical looks I have ever seen anyone give.
    WOW... excellent.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Oh dear..
    thing.

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    The only thing that I'm not sure about it is the ISTPs love small children part. My husband only likes our small child, and I mean that sincerely, and what's more, it took him a while to warm up to her and she shares genetic material with him. BUT I have a female ISTp friend who adores small children. So maybe it's just my husband?

    But otherwise it sounded great And even without a mention of pets!
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    C'mon Joel. I'm sure you have more negativity to spread around than a simple "Oh, dear."
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky
    C'mon Joel. I'm sure you have more negativity to spread around than a simple "Oh, dear."
    You notice that's all I said.

    Good.
    thing.

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    OK. Then I appreciate your restraint.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    @Rocky and Nicky: Thanks!

    Nicky, I wrote the "likes/dislikes" list while my daughter was awake, that probably explains a lot. I probably got quite a number of things wrong, because what I wrote is really just my impression of the ISTps I know IRL (plus some impressions of the ISTps on this forum).

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    I read it to my husband and he said, "Yeah but isn't *everybody* like that? Doesn't everyone watch people do work and secretly think they're doing it wrong?" I assured him that wasn't the case. He said, "Isn't *everyone* like that?" a few more times during the description as well. Too funny.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    @Rocky and Nicky: Thanks!

    Nicky, I wrote the "likes/dislikes" list while my daughter was awake, that probably explains a lot. I probably got quite a number of things wrong, because what I wrote is really just my impression of the ISTps I know IRL (plus some impressions of the ISTps on this forum).
    SC this is a very good description. It almost describes someone I know to a T. Right down to the guitar and children. Another ISTP I know is not so much into children but does have two cats. He started playing the drums recently and I cant believe how coordinated he is. Anyway thanks. This underscores some good points that I would like to further contemplate. I would love to hear your rendition of a female ISTP. They seem the most mysterious of all. (perhaps it is because they are duals.)

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    @Nicky: LOL. I get this reaction when I tell my ISTps about their good qualities. They don't recognize them as good qualities; for them, it's just what one ought to do. "Yes, but you're actually doing it, which is something unusual and special, because others would never dream of doing it, see?" - "So? Those are the idiots. That's all."

    @Topaz: I might know one female ISTp, but I'm not really sure she is one. She's taciturn, very into hang-gliding and canoeing, and she's crap at communicating stuff, giving you insufficient data (esp. about herself) and then being offended when you don't magically guess at what she was really trying to say. She's not likely to burden people with her problems; no whiner; no one who only moans and complains and never does anything about the problem. She keeps most of it to herself. She also has this calm, understated friendliness about her that ISTps seem to have. She usually wears old, shapeless clothes in the wrong colours, though, and her hair is too long and doesn't suit her face, so I'm not sure if she really is an ISTp.

    Generally I'd guess that female ISTps need an environment where they are allowed to be what they are instead of being pressured to conform to traditionally "female" stereotypes. Like, "women talk about their feelings freely". (URK. ) Or everything that is touchy-feely, giggly, wide-eyed, excited, fashion-obsessed and pink. (Idiots.) Or the "girls don't do bullfighting/hanggliding/canoeing" stuff. Or the wish of some men to have a girlfriend/wife who is clinging, helpless, and dependent on them. If the guy's self-respect hinges on being the one who gets to hold the remote control, drive the car, use the power drill and do the bullfighting, expecting the girl to be wide-eyed and adoring and passive... perhaps that's a bad thing? Just my guess.

    I don't think I know any female ISTps where I live. I'd like to. A girl like Hemingway. Sounds like someone fun to be with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicky
    I read it to my husband and he said, "Yeah but isn't *everybody* like that? Doesn't everyone watch people do work and secretly think they're doing it wrong?" I assured him that wasn't the case. He said, "Isn't *everyone* like that?" a few more times during the description as well. Too funny.
    This is a good reminder of how the concept of different types is not obvious and even alien to many people.

    It reminds me of when an INFj friend of mine was talking on the phone to his ENFp girlfriend, doing the baby-talk thing. When I pointed out to him that that was a good example of different patterns of behavior, he was taken aback: "but don't *all* couples talk like that"?


    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    She usually wears old, shapeless clothes in the wrong colours, though, and her hair is too long and doesn't suit her face, so I'm not sure if she really is an ISTp.
    I'm not sure but I think this is consistent with having . She's more concerned about her own views and comfort regarding her own appearance than on the impression she makes on others.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I know a female ISTp, but she lives in another town. Not terribly far away, but far away enough that we don't see each other that often. Her husband is an ENFp too. And she is the one who drives the car. LOL. I know a lot of women who are the ones who drive the cars. My sister-in-law always drives, and the new neighbor across the street always drives. I *think* her husband might be an ENFp but I'm not sure - they haven't been living there long but they have a daughter our daughter's age so we are getting to know them pretty well. I have no idea what she is but I don't think she's an ISTp. Actually, I'm sure she isn't. I saw the two of them trying to put together a swingset for their daughter and there wasn't a logical thinker between them. It's funny how I've gotten used to seeing an ISTp do that kind of work and now it's kind of painful to see people not able to put things together (even though I'm like that myself). I found myself wanting to help them, but I was afraid I'd make even more of a mess of it, so I got my husband to help. I think I'm pretty good at recognizing ISTps. And moderately good at picking out ENFps. Other than that, I am either unsure or lost about what type people are
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    I have a female ISTp friend.

    She's not likely to burden people with her problems; no whiner; no one who only moans and complains and never does anything about the problem. She keeps most of it to herself. She also has this calm, understated friendliness about her that ISTps seem to have. She usually wears old, shapeless clothes in the wrong colours, though, and her hair is too long and doesn't suit her face, so I'm not sure if she really is an ISTp.
    This absolutely applies. She never whines and when she does complain, it's only about things that are beyond her control AND truly problematic. But she doesn't dwell on it. Complains, done, moving along. She has the calm understated friendliness, but can be very direct (she teaches and I have seen her interact with students - no problems with telling them that their work basically sucks, but in a friendly and pragmatic way - nothing personal!). Her clothes are mismatched, old and shapeless and her hair style is not flattering. She does not care. She is not worried about concepts of femininity or fitting in. She does her own thing (crafts, gardening, outdoors, running). Our conversations are very down-to-earth practical. I leave any sort of "awwww" at home when I see her. She is very talkative one one one (I have seen that in other ISTps). Her opinions are pragmatic and not driven by emotions. If she wants something, she makes it happen when it's Si- related. But she has been working on her dissertation for 10 years and I don't see it getting done anytime soon. As a teacher, it's her way and that's it. What works for her is what works. I know she rolls her eyes and my warm and fuzzy "good laid-back classroom atmoshpere flexibility" ENFp teacher ways. I roll my eyes at her "the work needs to be done, get it done or leave" ISTp teacher ways.

    I wouldn't turn to her for emotional support (or she wouldn't be the first person I turn to), but whenever I needed help with anything (watering my plants over the summer, helping me move, proof-reading my paper, substituting for me, etc.) she was there to do it. No fuzz, no long talk. She is fabulously reliable and helpful. And actually, if I need emotional support for matters such as finances or teaching, I would turn to her because her practicality and pragmatism would really be helpful.

    I love that she is non-pretentious, non-conformist, practical, creative (crafts) and reliable.

    Ah, I miss her now! We don't live in the same state anymore.

    /me goes to write an e-mail to ISTp friend.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    She usually wears old, shapeless clothes in the wrong colours, though, and her hair is too long and doesn't suit her face, so I'm not sure if she really is an ISTp.
    I'm not sure but I think this is consistent with having . She's more concerned about her own views and comfort regarding her own appearance than on the impression she makes on others.
    i think it is, too. on the flipside, you could also have an ISTp who wears very stylish and fashionable things, although they might not reflect the fashion norm of the country they're in. i'm thinking of my ISTp female friend who wears lots of european french-boutique type clothing while in the united states. she's still reflecting that, "who cares what you think? i have X, Y, and Z reasons for wearing this." ISTp mentality. i could also see INTps doing this.

    she's so darned adaptable and interested in other cultures/ways of living that she winds up picking up on all sorts of different trends.
    Kim's teacher friend sounds like my Bio-Science teacher a few semesters ago. She was the best teacher I had actually. She was very good at explaining things and very patient with the students but expected the work to be done. The clothes and stuff were ...well.... how to put it... not so attractive. It seems as if ISTPs are antifashion.
    Usually when one thinks of fashion they think of the latest style and what everyone else is doing at the moment. I could see an ISTP enjoying clothes but not fashion in that sense. I would love to run into an ISTP like Implied mentions. If I were going to be honest I would have to say that although a person should not be a slave to appearance, looks do count for something and that personal style is a turn on to me. The sloppy stuff is not. :wink:

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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