Differences between EIIs and EIEs (INFj vs. ENFj)

**ladyinred** · 08-18-2010, 12:38 AM

They can seem so similiar at a distance. What's the tipoff that says E or I in XNFJ?

**discojoe** · 08-18-2010, 01:09 AM

I don't feel like being professional here, so I won't. I'll just be blunt, grumpy, and overly subjective.

Quite a few EIEs seem like they're not balanced. They are manipulative, overly critical, and bitchy about stupid shit that doesn't matter. They need Ti and Se, but they're often too proud to accept it. Sometimes you can shut them down with it and "force" them to listen, but they only become passive-aggressive afterward since you damaged their vanity. They are usually much more dominant in group discussions. Even if they're not the most talkative, it often seems like they're leading the discussion. Smart ones have a canny perceptiveness that is awe-inspiring with healthy EIEs but infuriating with the unhealthy ones who use it to grandstand and win debates even when they are wrong and don't know what the fuck they are talking about. They can still be good, loyal friends, but the way they end up treating you tends to be highly dependent on whatever happens to be their mood of the hour.

EIIs are more likely to be sweet people who seem to genuinely care about you. They are good friends who will always listen to you if you need them. They can be quite shy in public compared to EIEs, but there are some who seem rather "extroverted" in their propensity to engage people in conversation. The big difference here seems to be that EIIs generally prefer making small talk with one person at a time, whereas EIEs like engaging whole groups of people. EIIs often have an underlying cheerfulness and sense of fun about them, like they've always got some fun little activity to do. EIEs, on the other hand, seem to universally possess a neurotic sense of pessimism that, while being very stimulating and somehow sexually alluring, can also be exhausting if the EIE is too proud to stop nagging and being dark and depressing when you tell them to shut the fuck up.

**sarinana** · 08-18-2010, 01:23 AM

Sounds like you prefer EIIs over EIEs.

**discojoe** · 08-18-2010, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by sarinana

Sounds like you prefer EIIs over EIEs.

MAYBE I'M LSE THEN LAWLAWLAWLAWLAWLAWL

**717495** · 08-18-2010, 01:50 AM

I don't feel that INFjs and ENFjs seem all that similar. Of course there are those middle-of-the-line people who are kind of hard to read.

INFjs seem more emotionally reserved, for starters. They don't seem to reach out as much, instead just observing, but probably not even as much as ENFjs observe. ENFjs appear to be more "awake" because they're EJ. INFj behavior also seems more random and uncalculated, idk. That's just something I've observed, might not be true.

**sarinana** · 08-18-2010, 02:07 AM

To answer the question.

If you are being irritated by EIE don't show any signs of irritation (we like introverts

they calm us down) or you will make EIE feel like it's just a game and EIE won't stop. EIEs like to test people boundaries on emotional level. The more you react to them, doesn't matter positive or negative, the more they will get into what they were doing/or saying before. We don't mean to hurt people like that and we are aware that we are hurting you but just your reactions... it's so addictive.... So amusing to see how much of inpact you can have on others emotions. LSI EIEs dual is a positivist. And as a positivist, introvert and rational he keeps EIE on balance. How LSI does it? LSI simple doesn't react to any negativism because he can easily focus on positive side of things and EIEs negativism or criticism is more like a joke to LSI. And even when he feels irritated he just stares at EIE with a look on his eyes like he doesn't really get what is going on. The events later proceed like this: EIE doesn't get any reaction, calms down and switches to something else (or it's LSI who directs EIEs emotions in a more positive way and then they can have fun as dual do.

)

Now how it goes with EIIs
If you are being irritated by EII you have to show signs of anger or irritation. Even smallest sign will work. And EII with ignored

will start trying to figure out what's wrong and fix everything immediately with

.

EIIs also seem very paranoid of being used. Sometimes they will accuse people that they are using them for wrong reasons. However they are very sweet, diligent and often creative people. They are more subtle than EIEs by behavior but at the same time they are usually more messy than EIEs.

However I am not EII and I cannot give as detailed description on this.

**ashlesha** · 08-18-2010, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by sarinana

If you are being irritated by EIE don't show any signs of irritation (we like introverts

they calm us down) or you will make EIE feel like it's just a game and EIE won't stop. EIEs like to test people boundaries on emotional level. The more you react to them, doesn't matter positive or negative, the more they will get into what they were doing/or saying before. We don't mean to hurt people like that and we are aware that we are hurting you but just your reactions... it's so addictive....

hey, this is good to know lol. i thought my EIE boss was just some sort of sadist who got off on pissing me off because i work for him and have to deal with it. because when my irritation is at its highest level he seems smug and smirky about it. but if this is the reason instead, it's not really so disturbing after all haha.

i guess that sort of flows into this, in a way..

Originally Posted by sarinana

EIIs also seem very paranoid of being used. Sometimes they will accuse people that they are using them for wrong reasons.

**sarinana** · 08-18-2010, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by laghlagh

hey, this is good to know lol. i thought my EIE boss was just some sort of sadist who got off on pissing me off because i work for him and have to deal with it. because when my irritation is at its highest level he seems smug and smirky about it. but if this is the reason instead, it's not really so disturbing after all haha.

i guess that sort of flows into this, in a way..

hahah I was thinking about using a word "sadist" in my post but seems like I have skipped it. Don't worry we love every person on this planet <3 even when we act exactly opposite. Just remember: stay calm and don't let emotions control you. We will appreciate it later.

**silverchris9** · 08-18-2010, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by discojoe

I don't feel like being professional here, so I won't. I'll just be blunt, grumpy, and overly subjective.

Quite a few EIEs seem like they're not balanced. They are manipulative, overly critical, and bitchy about stupid shit that doesn't matter. They need Ti and Se, but they're often too proud to accept it. Sometimes you can shut them down with it and "force" them to listen, but they only become passive-aggressive afterward since you damaged their vanity. They are usually much more dominant in group discussions. Even if they're not the most talkative, it often seems like they're leading the discussion. Smart ones have a canny perceptiveness that is awe-inspiring with healthy EIEs but infuriating with the unhealthy ones who use it to grandstand and win debates even when they are wrong and don't know what the fuck they are talking about. They can still be good, loyal friends, but the way they end up treating you tends to be highly dependent on whatever happens to be their mood of the hour.

EIIs are more likely to be sweet people who seem to genuinely care about you. They are good friends who will always listen to you if you need them. They can be quite shy in public compared to EIEs, but there are some who seem rather "extroverted" in their propensity to engage people in conversation. The big difference here seems to be that EIIs generally prefer making small talk with one person at a time, whereas EIEs like engaging whole groups of people. EIIs often have an underlying cheerfulness and sense of fun about them, like they've always got some fun little activity to do. EIEs, on the other hand, seem to universally possess a neurotic sense of pessimism that, while being very stimulating and somehow sexually alluring, can also be exhausting if the EIE is too proud to stop nagging and being dark and depressing when you tell them to shut the fuck up.

Geez. Who is this girl you're dating, and how much of a nightmare is she?

**sarinana** · 08-18-2010, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by silverchris9

Geez. Who is this girl you're dating, and how much of a nightmare is she?

**1981slater** · 08-18-2010, 10:44 AM

EIE intellectual, loud, aggressive, engaging, funny
EII redneck, quiet, moralist, boring, killjoy, suspicious

**Suz** · 08-18-2010, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by ladyinred

They can seem so similiar at a distance. What's the tipoff that says E or I in XNFJ?

This question is obviously arising from an MBTI origin. This is socionics.

ENFj is Fe Ni Te Si Ti Se Fi Ne. Dominant function is Fe :. extravert.

INFj is Fi Ne Ti Se Te Si Fe Ni. Dominant function is Fi :. introvert.

Fe and Fi are very different functions, as are Ni and Ne as are Ti and Te as are Si and Se. In socionics, the difference between them must be understood in order to fully appreciate the worlds of difference between the beta NFs and delta NFs.

**ladyinred** · 08-18-2010, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

This question is obviously arising from an MBTI origin. This is socionics.

Actually. No. Although I came from MBTI I have been studying socionics for some months now and know there are major differences between the two with socionics being much more descriptive imo.

Fe and Fi are very different functions, as are Ni and Ne as are Ti and Te as are Si and Se. In socionics, the difference between them must be understood in order to fully appreciate the worlds of difference between the beta NFs and delta NFs.

WOW THAT WAS SUPER HELPFUL, THANKS

To the rest of you, especially disco joe thanks alot :-)

**Suz** · 08-18-2010, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by ladyinred

Actually. No. Although I came from MBTI I have been studying socionics for some months now and know there are major differences between the two with socionics being much more descriptive imo.

So why the non-sensical question???

If someone has a decent understanding of socionics, i can understand a dilemma between ENFj and ESFj or even ENFj and ENFp (since ENFp's have demonstrative Fe depending on how much they display it) or INFj and INTj, or INFj and ISFj, or INFj and ENFp but I cannot for the life of me see how one would be deciding between ENFj and INFj...

WOW THAT WAS SUPER HELPFUL, THANKS

Well describing the differences between all of those information elements is beyond the scope of this thread and beyond how much time i could (or wanted) to invest in this discussion. There is PLENTY of info on this forum and on other socionics sites that will help you find the answers to those things i mentioned. Research it, like i did.

As far as guiding you with your type, things I can sort of see already are:

you are probably not Te-valuing. Because a Te-valuing person would have taken what i said and run with it, either asking questions or looking things up. And Ti-valuing by default means you are not Fi-valuing. (which is something i can already tell anyway from your reactions). So, look into being either alpha or beta quadra.

If the typing question was about yourself, choosing between the two, I would choose ENFj for you. But you really have to get a good understanding of the IEs before setting yourself on a type. Dont go by the descriptions. Narrow down your quadra first. Makes things a LOT easier.

**ladyinred** · 08-19-2010, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon

So why the non-sensical question???

If someone has a decent understanding of socionics, i can understand a dilemma between ENFj and ESFj or even ENFj and ENFp (since ENFp's have demonstrative Fe depending on how much they display it) or INFj and INTj, or INFj and ISFj, or INFj and ENFp but I cannot for the life of me see how one would be deciding between ENFj and INFj...

Well describing the differences between all of those information elements is beyond the scope of this thread and beyond how much time i could (or wanted) to invest in this discussion. There is PLENTY of info on this forum and on other socionics sites that will help you find the answers to those things i mentioned. Research it, like i did.

As far as guiding you with your type, things I can sort of see already are:

you are probably not Te-valuing. Because a Te-valuing person would have taken what i said and run with it, either asking questions or looking things up. And Ti-valuing by default means you are not Fi-valuing. (which is something i can already tell anyway from your reactions). So, look into being either alpha or beta quadra.

If the typing question was about yourself, choosing between the two, I would choose ENFj for you. But you really have to get a good understanding of the IEs before setting yourself on a type. Dont go by the descriptions. Narrow down your quadra first. Makes things a LOT easier.

You have typed me very quickly, and very inaccurately. I am an INFj or EII if you prefer it written that way since you are apparently some sort of Socionics snob.

Also maybe you havent seen this thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ice-versa.html that asks the SAME EXACT KIND of question in this one, it is not nonsensical either but if you consider THIS one to be you must consider THAT one to be nonsensical as well. BUT I guess it is easier to pick on "Newbies" and get away with it. Nice Fi, way to go.

**Jarno** · 08-20-2010, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by ladyinred

They can seem so similiar at a distance. What's the tipoff that says E or I in XNFJ?

ENFJ: bla bla bla!!!, hey you let's go do this, bla bla bla!, did you hear about bla bla!!!!

INFJ: hi...

**Suz** · 08-20-2010, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by ladyinred

You have typed me very quickly, and very inaccurately. I am an INFj or EII if you prefer it written that way since you are apparently some sort of Socionics snob.

Also maybe you havent seen this thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ice-versa.html that asks the SAME EXACT KIND of question in this one, it is not nonsensical either but if you consider THIS one to be you must consider THAT one to be nonsensical as well. BUT I guess it is easier to pick on "Newbies" and get away with it. Nice Fi, way to go.

Look, i'm sorry. Maybe i was a bit too harsh and emotional. But your response to my initial post was pretty rude. I was just trying to be a socionics purist because a lot of people here (and especially on socionics.com) tend to confuse MBTI and socionics concepts, and it's a big pet peeve of mine because when I was a newbie, this sort of thinking landed me in my opposing quadra. So i was really only trying to help with what i wrote and guide you in the right direction, and instead you gave me a big eyeroll in your response and a sarcastic comment that indicated obvious lack of appreciation. That is what prompted the not Te-valuing comment from me (notice i even said "probably" so i wasn't certain), however i do admit that was based on my emotional response to you at the time.

Anyway, i still stand by what i said in my initial post. Just switching the E and the I is an MBTI-based concept.

So, I am not sure how you typed yourself EII (INFj), but it is entirely possible that you mistyped yourself. Lots of newbies do (including myself). Or maybe you are EII, i have no idea at this point. So you shouldn't be TOO sure about your type as of yet, imo.

**Beautiful sky** · 08-21-2010, 01:59 AM

INFj

1. They get stuck in trivialities, repeating things too many times.
2. They over analyze everything or a lot of things.
3. They have primary Fi, which means that they are very concerned with the internal emotional lives of those they are close to, where Fe leading ENFj's get tired of Fi type of emotions and lingering feelings.
4. INFj's can be highly demanding because in order to have clear understanding of something due to their Ti role, they need someone to answer their own questions as they prefer them, so that they can fit the Ti terms together and get a picture of what is being discussed and in what frameworks.
They can be demanding that others remain consistent and provide accurate information.
5. Si activation, allows INFj's to take full relaxation and rest in pleasant and peaceful natural surroundings; you can, in several part of the forum, observe both Minde and I being attracted to natural nature surroundings.
6. INFj's are sensitive to graphic depictions. They are sensitive to certain images and will either shy away from them or point them out. NOW, I am sensitive to Rubicon's dark image avatar.
7. Te seeking means being distracted and unorganized, getting consumed with feelings if that function doesn't correct perception.
8. We can use Ni just like INFp's so we often look and act a lot like them rather then ENFj's and often our duals confuse us and swap each other LOL

**Absurd** · 09-02-2010, 08:37 PM