Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 46

Thread: Integral Types

  1. #1
    Creepy-

    Default Integral Types

    Has anyone witnessed the phenomenon of integral type?

    There is an article here.

    In hindsight, I believe my high school group was very ESTp (or at least ) overall, despite the eventual loss of our ESTp member. This might have contributed to the INTj member eventually leaving us.

    The group was me + 9 guys, though we rarely functioned as a whole group except for the larger, more devastating shenanigans and pyrotechnics. Even when we were not functioning together, we tended to form smaller groups that shared the same space.

    The guys' types (in no particular order except for quadra): INTj, ENTp, ESTp, ISTj, ESFp, INTp, ENTj, and 2 uncertain (both are probably SF, maybe ISFj and ISFp, going by their relationships with the INTj).

    We lost the ESTp fairly early on because he dropped out of school, and then the INTj because he decided he hated all of us (except for me and the INTp guy).

    There was a website which is a perfect example of what we got up to, but it unfortunately no longer exists . It was rather random and physical - when we weren't talking about science, anyway (we were nerds, doing the Specialist Science program). The guys in particular would try to inflict as much pain as possible on each other in ritualized games. There was also the "Alpha Male" competition. Ah, the memories...

  2. #2
    Kristiina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Estonia, Tartu
    Posts
    4,021
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, Estonian integral type would probably be ISTj. Someone else said it in another forum, but I agree. The people are very calm, quiet and emotionless. Also very reserved and gray in their choice of clothing. There are also some ISTp-ish "every man for himself" tendencies.

    My family is rather big and there is a certain aura among us. And it's pretty strong, because other people find the conversations hard to observe. Hectic, but somehow reasonable (if you look for reason), energetic, but somehow lazy. I think it's ESTp. I also read the ESTp description and it applies pretty well. And I think one of my brothers is ESTp! I had problems typing him.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think that, if the US were to be assigned an integral type, it would be ENTj. Hard working, innovative, entrepreneurial, and open-minded while at the same time unwilling to compromise it's own values: these are the traits of the ideal "American," and they happen to fit quite well with the stereotypical picture of the LIE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  4. #4
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think my personal friend group tends toward an ENFp personality: innovation, creativity, and open-mindedness are valued above all, with a strong undercurrent of the need for the kind of sensitivity and tactful behavior that is characteristic of the ENFp.

    My family...is tough to group. I think we're rather ENFj: we're very open and expressive, and value the kind of straightforward honesty that Beta quadra stands for (in spite of the fact that everyone except me is a Delta...hmmm...)
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  5. #5
    Creepy-

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan87
    I think my personal friend group tends toward an ENFp personality: innovation, creativity, and open-mindedness are valued above all, with a strong undercurrent of the need for the kind of sensitivity and tactful behavior that is characteristic of the ENFp.

    My family...is tough to group. I think we're rather ENFj: we're very open and expressive, and value the kind of straightforward honesty that Beta quadra stands for (in spite of the fact that everyone except me is a Delta...hmmm...)
    Interesting!

  6. #6
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, Estonian integral type would probably be ISTj. Someone else said it in another forum, but I agree.
    It was me who wrote it here:
    http://forum.socioniko.net/viewtopic.php?t=28

    The topic was in German, here I translate it into English:

    ENFj: Arabs (general; certain countries may deviate), Poles
    ENFp: Spanish, Israeli Jews, Romanian
    ENTj: USA
    ENTp: Jews (Europe and USA)
    ESFj: France, Armenia, Argentina
    ESFp: Georgia (in Caucasus, not in the USA), Thailand
    ESTj: Great Britain, Lithuania, Japan (?)
    ESTp: Turks, Chechens, Serbians
    INFj: Belarus, Canada
    INFp: Russia, Ireland, Iran
    INTj: Sweden, Czech
    INTp: ???
    ISFj: Ukraine, Switzerland, Korea, maybe also Denmark
    ISFp: Italy, Azeri, Flemish
    ISTj: Germany, Estonia
    ISTp: Finland, Aussies, Dutch
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How does the concept of "integral" type differ from that of a "dominant" type?

    For example, would one call the "integral" type of America ENTJ, and the "dominant" type the type of the president? (ESTP for now) Does a nation fare better if the dominant type and the integral type are the same, or highly similar?

  8. #8
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    ENTp: Jews (Europe and USA)
    LOL
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  9. #9
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, the concept of an "integral type" is something very, very vague.
    On the one hand, it is obvious that nations do have certain types of behavior that persist thrugh centuries, that make this nation different even from its closest kins and/or bearers of the same language (for example Americans from Britons, Canadians and Aussies; Germans from Austrians; Serbs from Bosnians, Montenegrians and Croatians; etc.). Historical researches, literature studies etc. show that certain behavioral traditions exist through centuries and disappear only when the corresponding nation disappears.

    It is also obvious that there is certain succession between nations. The nation-father and the nation-child may coexist for certain time, but their behavioral types are very often different, and for this reason one of them sooner or later supersedes the other. Ancient Romans were something much different from the modern Italians. Ancient Greeks were not the same nation as Byzantines, and the last not the same as modern Greeks. In the Middle Ages there was a huge difference between the Moscow Russians and inhabitants of other regions of the Ancient Rus, which resulted in bloody wars and numerous atrocities. Biblical Jews were a very cruel and pathetic nation, much different from the modern Jews. Et cetera, et cetera.

    There are lots of funny books dedicated to national characters - look e.g. here:
    http://www.ovalbooks.com/xeno/Russians.html

    And there are more detailed researches of linguists and historians (these are usually very boring books ).

    In my opinion, the "national type" is a stereotype of behavior developed through years, because people of a certain psychological type suit better for long-term existence in such conditions than other types. At a certain moment of the nation's history this type, however, begins to enchain its further development, the nation begins to look desperately for "something else but not this one, it results in big massacres (The Thirty Years War in Germany, The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution etc.)... but inertia is a great thing, and very long, long after the massacres had ended, this type still persists, until the nation extincts. Sometimes it may be even a phantom type: as a result of a big war or some other perturbartions, this type is no more widely represented among people of this nation; however, due to social inertia, due to stereotypes learnt from the childhood, people continue living according to the dead type, until their nation turns into something else.

    This is the hypothesis about national types according to socionists from Kiev.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  10. #10
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here is a link to Lev Gumilev's book (in English) which serves as a basis for the socionic hypothesis of national types:

    http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/English/ebe.htm

    Lev Gumilev (or Gumilyov, Gumiliov) was a historian who studies similar tendencies in the history of different nations and discovered certain regularities, rhythms of development, which allows developing scientific criteria of distinguishing one nation from the other, even when they speak the same language (like Austrians and Germans, Serbs and Croatians).
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  11. #11
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    isn't there a theory that integrals are composed of both a male and female component? Male as ego-block- female as it's dual. perhaps in female dominated societies this would be reversed.

    In the case of the United States ENTj is the integral male type while ISFj is the female...

  12. #12
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's one of hypotheses. And I'd say, yes, the stereotype of female behavior cultuvated in the US really reminds me ISFj, and there are lots of famous ISFj actresses in the US, such as Michelle Pfeiffer, Susan Sarandon, etc. However, what will native Americans tell about this hypothesis?
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  13. #13
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    ESTj: Great Britain, Lithuania, Japan (?)
    I suggest INTp for England.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov

    ISFp: Italy, Azeri, Flemish
    I'd say the whole of Belgium is ISFp, not just the Flemish part -- the Wallonia (the French-speaking part) is also ISFp; it's not quite the same as France.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  14. #14
    Creepy-

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    ISTp: Finland, Aussies, Dutch
    Which Aussies?

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think ISFp fits Italy. Italy is extraverted, but rather conservative in its essential moral judgements. We always try to find tricky ways to conduct businesses, but we are pretty concerned about values in the sphere of relationships. There is also a tendency to value irrational means to gain easy money, i.e. lottery, etc.

    All in all, I'd say ESFp, which is quite clear from the political sphere.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,294
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Edited for gayness.
    ENTp

  17. #17
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Was it a joke?
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  18. #18
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think ISFp fits Italy. Italy is extraverted, but rather conservative in its essential moral judgements. We always try to find tricky ways to conduct businesses, but we are pretty concerned about values in the sphere of relationships. There is also a tendency to value irrational means to gain easy money, i.e. lottery, etc.
    Yes, maybe ESFp is a good version.
    Which Aussies?
    As far as I know, Australians call themselves "Aussies", don't they?
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  19. #19
    snegledmaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,900
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What type would croatia be? I'm curious. I've got a hypothesis of my own, but I'm no expert.

  20. #20
    Creepy-

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    Which Aussies?
    As far as I know, Australians call themselves "Aussies", don't they?
    Yes, but Australian culture is somewhat segregated. Indigenous Australians are quite different to European Australians, and as groups they act very differently.

  21. #21
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No idea about Croatians, but they are definitely different from Serbs. I lurked or sometimes even participated both in Serbian and Croatian forums. My impression (maybe superficial) was that Serbians usually react very emotionally and sharply even to smallest irritating factors, while Croatians react calmly and ironically even to obvious insults.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So far I have seen suggestions that Sweden is INTj or ESTp. I don't know what they are based on, but the typical Swedish mentality is clearly Sj in general, and if you combine that with our overall introvertedness you would probably end up with ISTj or ISFj. But maybe those typings refer to some other aspect of the differences between nations. I haven't studied it in detail.

  23. #23
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Why is Sweden Sj? According to journalists (maybe Swedes look at it differently), Swedes are known for their indecisiveness, they prefer to intellectually elaborate a problem for hours even when it requires a one minute action, isn't it the vulnerable ? Swedes do not like aggression and avoid it at all costs (and for this reason may look boring and gloomy to their neighbors). In fact, Swedes by their behavior are much similar to Canadians with just one exception: Sweden is a T nation, and Canada is definitely an F nation.

    Finns admire Swedes for their intellectualism (in fact Swedish universities, especially in Turku, are still the most prestigious in Finland), but on the other hand, Finns consider Swedes arrogant and over-critical (again, this is not my own impression, this is what I heard from Finns).

    PS. I apologize if I expressed myself not very politely. I am not Swede, and I am curious what native Swedes think of themselves.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  24. #24
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    It's one of hypotheses. And I'd say, yes, the stereotype of female behavior cultuvated in the US really reminds me ISFj, and there are lots of famous ISFj actresses in the US, such as Michelle Pfeiffer, Susan Sarandon, etc. However, what will native Americans tell about this hypothesis?
    I just happen to work on a reservation and interract with native Americans on a daily basis. Hopefully I can corner one of my employees into letting me talk their ear off explaining socionics some time so I can get they're opinion. Off the top of my head I would say that most native American females to me seem to be E's while males are generally I's. I know that's not much but I'd rather have their opinion on this than trying to guess at it myself.

    Do any others think this applys to their countries? Considering the Russion integral to be INFp does the Russian female stereotype of ESTp sound correct?

  25. #25
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I see, we probably mean different things under the same terms. When I spoke about "native Americans", I meant the overall population of the USA and not Indians.

    As for Russians... both male and female stereotypes of INFp and ESTp are cultivated in Russian mass culture. While ESTp are represented as "super-people", INFp are rather represented as something very ordinary, usual, so that one can see such people everywhere.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  26. #26

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    192
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    Why is Sweden Sj? According to journalists (maybe Swedes look at it differently), Swedes are known for their indecisiveness, they prefer to intellectually elaborate a problem for hours even when it requires a one minute action, isn't it the vulnerable ? Swedes do not like aggression and avoid it at all costs (and for this reason may look boring and gloomy to their neighbors). In fact, Swedes by their behavior are much similar to Canadians with just one exception: Sweden is a T nation, and Canada is definitely an F nation.

    Finns admire Swedes for their intellectualism (in fact Swedish universities, especially in Turku, are still the most prestigious in Finland), but on the other hand, Finns consider Swedes arrogant and over-critical (again, this is not my own impression, this is what I heard from Finns).

    PS. I apologize if I expressed myself not very politely. I am not Swede, and I am curious what native Swedes think of themselves.
    That seems accurate to me as a Swede. I've seen Sweden typed as INTj before which makes a lot more sense.

  27. #27
    Creepy-bg

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    I see, we probably mean different things under the same terms. When I spoke about "native Americans", I meant the overall population of the USA and not Indians.
    It's that damn politicaly correct speech they teach us here in America. Actually I (and they as well) call themselves Indians... Native American = Indian seems to be a white man's invention... repressed guilt and all :wink:

    As a "native American" as you meant it I can say yes, ENTj males and ISFj females sounds roughly correct. At least from the viewpoint of what's expected from each gender. The lines between seem to be blurring though.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    PS. I apologize if I expressed myself not very politely. I am not Swede, and I am curious what native Swedes think of themselves.
    You don't have to apologize one bit. I'm not a typical Swede myself and I'm very non-nationalistic.

    Why is Sweden Sj? According to journalists (maybe Swedes look at it differently), Swedes are known for their indecisiveness, they prefer to intellectually elaborate a problem for hours even when it requires a one minute action, isn't it the vulnerable ? Swedes do not like aggression and avoid it at all costs (and for this reason may look boring and gloomy to their neighbors). In fact, Swedes by their behavior are much similar to Canadians with just one exception: Sweden is a T nation, and Canada is definitely an F nation.
    Yes, you are right about the indecisiveness of Swedes (and in that respect I'm also "Swedish"). Sweden is also too passive in my opinion when it should show more aggression and resoluteness. And yes, Swedes are boring and gloomy too.

    But is that really signs of INTj? Sweden is a very bureaucratic country. Rules should be obeyed at all cost. My impression of INTjs is that they are much more anti-authoritarian than a typical Swede.

    Swedes are also very cautious, they don't want to take risks. The general attitude of the government and the authorities is paternalistic. "We will take care of you, if you just let us be in possession of the power." "We will protect you from any danger."

    If we look at MBTI test results, there is a large proportion of ISFJs among Swedes, maybe up to 20 %. You know that I don't trust test results that much, but it is an indication. I don't know about Canada, but if you compare Sweden to Denmark, Sweden is much more ISFj than Denmark, which is much more p than Sweden. Denmark is a more laid-back country than Sweden (something that is even clearly expressed in the way they talk ...), that is all I can say for sure.

  29. #29
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    MBTI gives somewhat different results than socionics. However, it would be interesting for me to look at these statistics. Was it published in the Internet?
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  30. #30

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    MBTI gives somewhat different results than socionics. However, it would be interesting for me to look at these statistics. Was it published in the Internet?
    No, I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I think I've read it in some Swedish material used by MBTI practitioners, and I don't know if I still have access to it.

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    192
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Sweden is a very bureaucratic country. Rules should be obeyed at all cost. My impression of INTjs is that they are much more anti-authoritarian than a typical Swede.
    I'll leave the typing to someone else.

    Yes, Sweden is bureaucratic, but I don't think it's authorian at all. Just compare the Swedish school system to just about any other. Decision making takes a long time because every aspect has to be taken into account and every special interest organisation possible must have a say. There are tons of regulations to make sure the decisions are fair but quite often the rules become more important and the fairness is kind of lost in the process. But the rules are followed becuase they are believed to make the society fair.

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes, Sweden is bureaucratic, but I don't think it's authorian at all. Just compare the Swedish school system to just about any other. Decision making takes a long time because every aspect has to be taken into account and every special interest organisation possible must have a say. There are tons of regulations to make sure the decisions are fair but quite often the rules become more important and the fairness is kind of lost in the process. But the rules are followed becuase they are believed to make the society fair.
    Yes, I agree with that description. I think it comes to what we mean by "authoritarian". At least Swedes are afraid to question decisions made my authorities. They don't want to make a fuss, like the Frenchmen for example.

  33. #33
    schrödinger's cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    1,186
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The theory is interesting. Isn't it a bit simplistic to just say "this country = that type". Is the whole of Italy really one type? I've heard that there are huge differences in mentality between North and South. Could there be one "Italian" integral type, and then another Tuscan/Sicilian/South Tirolean (etc.) subtype?

    Then there are historical changes. My own part of Germany used to belong to Austria. Then it was an independent country. Then it was gobbled up by the German Empire and became a county. Then this county was gobbled up by its neighbouring county (there are huge differences!). So, what's our type?

    Then there are regional differences. Even within my county, btw., there are differences between the mountains and the valleys. Mountain people are stubborn, taciturn, enduring, ethical, and dreamy, while valley people are realistic urbane bonvivants who are easygoing and gossippy. So, those would be yet two more subtypes.

    That way you'd get sub-sub-sub-sub-subtypes. We could call it the Matrioshka Theory.

  34. #34
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    6,857
    Mentioned
    380 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    The theory is interesting. Isn't it a bit simplistic to just say "this country = that type". Is the whole of Italy really one type? I've heard that there are huge differences in mentality between North and South. Could there be one "Italian" integral type, and then another Tuscan/Sicilian/South Tirolean (etc.) subtype?

    Then there are historical changes. My own part of Germany used to belong to Austria. Then it was an independent country. Then it was gobbled up by the German Empire and became a county. Then this county was gobbled up by its neighbouring county (there are huge differences!). So, what's our type?

    Then there are regional differences. Even within my county, btw., there are differences between the mountains and the valleys. Mountain people are stubborn, taciturn, enduring, ethical, and dreamy, while valley people are realistic urbane bonvivants who are easygoing and gossippy. So, those would be yet two more subtypes.

    That way you'd get sub-sub-sub-sub-subtypes. We could call it the Matrioshka Theory.
    Ahh, thanks for saving the me the effort Cat! Just look at Berlin vs Hamburg vs Cologne - huge differences (Hamburg is I, Cologne is definitely E, etc, etc). I think typing countries is tedious because it mostly uses and perpetuates stereotypes. Germany is certainly not ISTj (were I to type it *cringes*). There are not only big differences between regions and urban/rural settings, but also between generations.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

  35. #35
    schrödinger's cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    1,186
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Kim, what type is your bit of Germany? Mine is ISTp or INTp, but that's if I judge the four "letters" separately. I'd have to post a detailled descriptions to be really sure.

    That would be a nice thread for "What's my Type", btw. "VI my country".

  36. #36
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    As a translator, I often notice words not translatable to certain languages due to different national mentalities.

    For example, we Russians do not have in our language a word "commitment". We have such words as "obligation" or "duty" or "aspiration" or "plan" but do not have a word that unites all these 4 terms in one.

    Many years of serfdom taught Russian peasants that it is stupid to commit for something, it will be the benefit of your landlord but not your own benefit. Although the serfdom was abolished long ago, it is a pity for me to say that we still have remnants of that time's thinking.
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  37. #37
    Dioklecian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    4,304
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What really makes a country a country? Is Europe a country?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  38. #38
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default

    Not yet

  39. #39
    Dmitri Lytov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nationalism is still a very strong factor in many European countries and even smaller regions, such as Catalonia or Corsica. In certain cases nationalism has very ugly forms. A month ago EuroNews TV showed a story of people of a small Slovene village in Austria that have been fighting for many years for the right to add fifty or sixty inscriptions in Slovene language to the existing inscriptions in their village, while Austrian authorities perceived it very sharply and resisted. However, knowing relatively small territories of many European countries, such nationalism makes sense. Austrians still remember the territory they conceded to Slovenes after the WWII, and are afraid of losing more, and this is why they were so cautios about what they considered "Slovene nationalism".

    However, what makes sense in Europe, is ridiculous or even dangerous in other countries. In Russia nationalist forces always represented a very small minority in our society, simply because nationalism (and especially Russian nationalism) was a direct threat to our multi-national society. One of reasons of the Chechen war was the Chechen nationalism. In the eyes of other nations of Russia, even Muslim nations, Chechens committed something abominable - they required "national purification" of their territory (and they attempted to enforce this "purification" in 1990s, which resulted in massacres against non-Chechen population).
    www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,074
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmitri Lytov
    And I'd say, yes, the stereotype of female behavior cultuvated in the US really reminds me ISFj, and there are lots of famous ISFj actresses in the US, such as Michelle Pfeiffer, Susan Sarandon, etc. However, what will native Americans tell about this hypothesis?
    *shrug*

    I find it more than highley unlikely that there are "lots" of ISFJ actresses in America. I'd be surprised if there were any. If there are any at all, it would be one in a million. And maybe that would still be giving them too much credit. ISFJs have neither the desired nor talent to be actresses. I would be shocked if you could find one aota of anything even resembling a proof for any of the actresses you have in mind to be ISFJ.

    And along those lines, ISFJ is not the female stereotype in America, anyway. Its ESFP.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •