Opinions of Betas on monogamy vs. open-relationships

[leftylib]

What is the Beta perspective, generally, on monogamy vs. open relationships? Are certain beta couple pairings more or less likely to be monogamous? Are Betas more or less likely to be monogamous than other quadrants? Or do we have to defer to studies of human sexual behavior at large and assume it applies equally across the quadrants?

Lefty
ENFJ
4w5

[redbaron]

I think betas can be quite jealous when they really love the partner they're with. I think monogamy is certainly possible and desired.

[discojoe]

I think Betas are some of the most jealous people on Earth and are often quite likely to be unforgiving of infidelity.

The only way I'd give a second chance to someone who cheated on me is if the behavior involved something more than just a momentary lapse of morality. For instance, they took some recreational drug that reacted in a bizarre way and basically made them hallucinate and have no idea what they were doing. But even then, they would have an extremely hard time convincing me that that's what happened.

[Gilly]

I am fucking jealous as shit. I think Beta represents extremes in this regard; the Rationals tend to be very dutiful and committed, whereas the irrationals are probably the most...uhhh...flighty types in the whole socion.

[xerx]

Betas can be meta-monogamous.

My LSI dad told me to drop any relationship with someone who cheats on her husband to be with you. He reasons that if she cheated on her husband, she's just as likely to cheat on you as well. Although he was pretty drunk when he told me this. Then again, drinking brings out your real feelings, so idk.

Either way, I don't accept his conclusion.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You can have sex for sex sake without it feeling cruel or dirty. I think the problem lies in how you rawly treat others, it seems like because you're getting easy sex from somebody, that it sends a signal to some guy's head that it's okay to treat this person like shit 'cause they won't mean anything anyway.' But that isn't the sex's fault. That is the guy being a douchebag.

And then of course, a huge problem is if you lie about it to somebody you supposedly care about. Instead of being a man and saying 'I really just want to fuck this person, do you mind?' (and frankly, this is a balance between how girls need to stop thinking they are these special little princesses in society, and men need to simply stop being assholes) Not to mention with all the diseases around today, you going out being a slut then going back to the person... but it doesn't mean that you're a 'bad person' just cause you want to fuck somebody.

And girls should stop guilt tripping guys cause they want to fuck other people. Lest you want to be gulit tripped in buying pointless shit on QVC that you don't need.

Sex is not the enemy - garbage. =D

[glam]

an LSI i knew once had similar reasoning; he also said that if someone cheats on you, to end the relationship, because if they do it once, they'll do it again.

[Computer Loser]

Once a cheater, always a cheater...

[Gilly]

Yup. Exactly why I didn't date the SLE who cheated on her boyfriend for me.

[xerx]

I don't think I can live with such an (?) conception. Every instinct I have would tell me to give her the benefit of the doubt that she just made the wrong choice when choosing someone, then got too emotional and needed a cathartic release from the relationship.

My duals and activators are really emotional and need an environment to experiment and learn from their mistakes, so that's sort of perfect for them if it's type related after all.

I'm not sure how I'd react if I got cheated on though.

[jessica129]

I'm probobly the most jealous person alive...I try to tell them it's just because I care but they don't buy it, which I don't understand much.. It's stupid to admit, but sometimes I wish the person I was with would get jealous...nothing is worse than not affecting them at all; you have to start wondering how much you mean to them. Is this crazy? Because I've been called crazy for it before and I just see it as caring...

Anyway, I honestly can't see myself ever being content with one person. I don't cheat but I get bored fast. The only way open relationships can work for me is if i don't care much about the person to begin with. I've tried it with ones I actually care about...it being a mutual thing, no cheating...and it's the worst thing in the world and don't recommend it if you get hurt easily.

[Capitalist Pig]

The only way open relationships can work for me is if i don't care much about the person to begin with. I've tried it with ones I actually care about...it being a mutual thing, no cheating...and it's the worst thing in the world and don't recommend it if you get hurt easily.

I could never consider even allowing this sort of thing on a trial basis. I'm much too jealous and it would hurt me on some deep-rooted, fundamental level.

[strrrng]

I am fucking jealous as shit. I think Beta represents extremes in this regard; the Rationals tend to be very dutiful and committed, whereas the irrationals are probably the most...uhhh...flighty types in the whole socion.

I feel like loyalty and commitment have to be reserved for few... endless reactivity is a good gauge to see what really lasts.

I don't think I can live with such an (?) conception. Every instinct I have would tell me to give her the benefit of the doubt that she just made the wrong choice when choosing someone, then got too emotional and needed a cathartic release from the relationship.

My duals and activators are really emotional and need an environment to experiment and learn from their mistakes, so that's sort of perfect for them if it's type related after all.

but where do you draw the line? that reasoning will keep a relationship going, because it molds to context.

[thePirate]

I don't think I can live with such an (?) conception. Every instinct I have would tell me to give her the benefit of the doubt that she just made the wrong choice when choosing someone, then got too emotional and needed a cathartic release from the relationship.

Yeah, my thing is I essentially agree with what everyone says here as being a common trend or rule - once a cheater always - but I don't think that is always the case - my instincts would tell me not to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I think there would be certain people in certain situations that could be made exceptions for. Certain things and motivations need to be there, although I'm not entirely clear on what that is.

Anyhow, yes, monogamy is absolutely possible in our quadra. I think betas want committed relationships deep down, but we just get bored quickly, or dissatisfied, or maybe even lose belief that monogamy is worth it. Some come around, others don't.

[FDG]

Well, the "problem" with a reasoning such as "once a cheater, always a cheater" is that human life does not last forever, thus the wording "always" could easily imply that neither partner will live long enough for the cheating to occur again, which would probably be satisfactory for a partner seeking loyalty.

[xerx]

Yeah, my thing is I essentially agree with what everyone says here as being a common trend or rule - once a cheater always - but I don't think that is always the case - my instincts would tell me not to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I think there would be certain people in certain situations that could be made exceptions for. Certain things and motivations need to be there, although I'm not entirely clear on what that is.

but where do you draw the line? that reasoning will keep a relationship going, because it molds to context.

Ballpark figure, depends on situation. If the person was going through a rough emotional patch, or if the person learned from their mistake(s), I probably wouldn't care. If I suspect they don't intend to stop and are doing it willfully, that's where I'd draw the line and politely bow out of the relationship.

[redbaron]

Ballpark figure, depends on situation. If the person was going through a rough emotional patch, or if the person learned from their mistake(s), I probably wouldn't care. If I suspect they don't intend to stop and are doing it willfully, that's where I'd draw the line and politely bow out of the relationship.

yeah I tend to see things this way. I mean you have to take everything in context of course.

[Gilly]

I'm probobly the most jealous person alive...I try to tell them it's just because I care but they don't buy it, which I don't understand much.. It's stupid to admit, but sometimes I wish the person I was with would get jealous...nothing is worse than not affecting them at all; you have to start wondering how much you mean to them. Is this crazy? Because I've been called crazy for it before and I just see it as caring...

Lol you're not crazy, I'm the same way. When people don't seem to give a shit whether I stay or go, I flip a shit and have some kind of histrionic fit

Anyway, I honestly can't see myself ever being content with one person. I don't cheat but I get bored fast. The only way open relationships can work for me is if i don't care much about the person to begin with. I've tried it with ones I actually care about...it being a mutual thing, no cheating...and it's the worst thing in the world and don't recommend it if you get hurt easily.

Yeah I could never have an open relationship, that would fucking destroy me. I still get twinges of jealousy thinking about my exes sleeping with other guys. If I was some kind of animal, like a gorilla or something, I would probably just kill all of my competitors and have a massive harem

[strrrng]

^pretty much. it's just important to know who you're dealing with, and not place unnecessary expectations on them. also, what you gain from each other is self-contained, and so if they seek to gain something else from another person, oh well. explicitly-defined relationships are more often than not shackles that prescribe how you're supposed to be, as if energy transmission obeys commandments. ultimately, real 'loyalty' will stem from a mutually-optimal exchange of value that doesn't need to be replaced or altered in any way.

[Ezra]

Yep. Find those who share your values regarding relationships. If you're a cheater, find a cheater. Don't be a fuckhead and betray someone who cares about you; stick to your own kind. If you're faithful, for god's sake don't go and get someone who looked attractive but who will fuck you over (IEIs especially heed this advice).

[Ezra]

I think betas can be quite jealous when they really love the partner they're with. I think monogamy is certainly possible and desired.

+5

[Gilly]

^pretty much. it's just important to know who you're dealing with, and not place unnecessary expectations on them. also, what you gain from each other is self-contained, and so if they seek to gain something else from another person, oh well. explicitly-defined relationships are more often than not shackles that prescribe how you're supposed to be, as if energy transmission obeys commandments. ultimately, real 'loyalty' will stem from a mutually-optimal exchange of value that doesn't need to be replaced or altered in any way.

quoted for accuracy

[betterthan]

Yep. Find those who share your values regarding relationships. If you're a cheater, find a cheater. Don't be a fuckhead and betray someone who cares about you; stick to your own kind. If you're faithful, for god's sake don't go and get someone who looked attractive but who will fuck you over (IEIs especially heed this advice).

Ni, advice uneeded .

[strrrng]

Yep. Find those who share your values regarding relationships. If you're a cheater, find a cheater. Don't be a fuckhead and betray someone who cares about you; stick to your own kind. If you're faithful, for god's sake don't go and get someone who looked attractive but who will fuck you over (IEIs especially heed this advice).

I don't think SLEs are that bent on simply using and disposing of people (assuming that's what you're hinting at). to me, it seems they just want to maintain boundaries of freedom until they're certain what they've found will last. it breeds that attitude of blithe reactivity with a willingness to uproot everything in a moment, which I find refreshing and more reassuring than any personal commitment could be. just let each person move along without interference, and if your energies continue colliding as you spiral upward, cool. if you need someone else, that's a shackle.

[Ezra]

I don't think SLEs are that bent on simply using and disposing of people (assuming that's what you're hinting at). to me, it seems they just want to maintain boundaries of freedom until they're certain what they've found will last. it breeds that attitude of blithe reactivity with a willingness to uproot everything in a moment, which I find refreshing and more reassuring than any personal commitment could be. just let each person move along without interference, and if your energies continue colliding as you spiral upward, cool. if you need someone else, that's a shackle.

I'm not hinting at that. I don't use or dispose of people. But then I'm not a cheater by nature.

As for boundaries of freedom. The SLEs I know (including myself) and have heard about in real life - in dual relationships - read nothing like this hypothetical SLE happy-go-lucky/don't commit until they're worth it idea that people on the forum seem to think they are like. On the contrary, it's the IEI with their long term doubt and uncertainty which is the source of our issue. We can't let our guard down properly until we know they will commit. But they take so fucking long, it's hard to totally let it down and surrender ourselves.

[strrrng]

I'm not hinting at that. I don't use or dispose of people. But then I'm not a cheater by nature.

As for boundaries of freedom. The SLEs I know (including myself) and have heard about in real life - in dual relationships - read nothing like this hypothetical SLE happy-go-lucky/don't commit until they're worth it idea that people on the forum seem to think they are like. On the contrary, it's the IEI with their long term doubt and uncertainty which is the source of our issue. We can't let our guard down properly until we know they will commit. But they take so fucking long, it's hard to totally let it down and surrender ourselves.

well, I don't think they're always happy-go-lucky or whatever, just that they maintain a fast pace and independence that is basically complementary to the IEI's more drawn-out sense of uncertainty. the ultimate aim for both imo is to find someone whose personal path naturally aligns with their own. I would love to be able to commit to someone, but it always seems like there's something off about them, and getting glimpses of how situations could pan out just creates this sense of fatalism. I think SLEs ease this because they don't let themselves get mired in the same way.

[Ezra]

well, I don't think they're always happy-go-lucky or whatever, just that they maintain a fast pace and independence that is basically complementary to the IEI's more drawn-out sense of uncertainty. the ultimate aim for both imo is to find someone whose personal path naturally aligns with their own. I would love to be able to commit to someone, but it always seems like there's something off about them, and getting glimpses of how situations could pan out just creates this sense of fatalism. I think SLEs ease this because they don't let themselves get mired in the same way.

TRUE DAT.

[Gilly]

Hey Ezra

[crazedrat]

I'm pretty committed once I'm in a relationship because I realize what a relationship entails, and I make those considerations when I enter into it. The issue is really whether I get into one. I could see myself being a man whore but not while I was with someone I liked. I just think why be in a relationship if you don't want to abide by it? And shouldn't you be driven to honor the relationship, because it's spectacular? I do break up with people really fast though, when they don't live up to my ideals. I have a high standard for forming a relationship. That's sort of related, I think. There are people who hop into relationships.. or at least what they'd call relationships; but really they're baseless, meek contractual agreements for sex and not much more. So cheating when you're in those kinds of shitty imitations is fine in my book; and mostly why I don't mind that SLEs cheat a ton (cuz they do)

[discojoe]

well, I don't think they're always happy-go-lucky or whatever, just that they maintain a fast pace and independence that is basically complementary to the IEI's more drawn-out sense of uncertainty. the ultimate aim for both imo is to find someone whose personal path naturally aligns with their own. I would love to be able to commit to someone, but it always seems like there's something off about them, and getting glimpses of how situations could pan out just creates this sense of fatalism. I think SLEs ease this because they don't let themselves get mired in the same way.

No one's perfect. You have to decide if the good outweighs the bad.

Then again, I was married to Joy, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

[Gilly]

Then again, I was married to Joy

I think this is the purest, most perfect self-deprecation I have ever witnessed.

[discojoe]

lmao

[Graham]

well, I don't think they're always happy-go-lucky or whatever, just that they maintain a fast pace and independence that is basically complementary to the IEI's more drawn-out sense of uncertainty.

Do you mind explaining how those things are complementary?

[UDP]

I know an SLE who has been extremely loyal, and has done a great job as a single father after his wife had ... well, a rather unpleasant ending to the marriage.

Single father with two kids, mind you. One of them with serious health issues...

He's a great guy. Def needs an IEI's softening touch tho. . . Definitely someone where his dual would very obviously compliment him.

[Gilly]

Do you mind explaining how those things are complementary?

Well IEIs tend to sort of ponderously avoid taking action unless circumstances are ideal and sufficient impetus is provided, whereas SLEs will typically act whenever the circumstances allow. The meshing of these to qualities is the proper balance of patience and initiative, waiting for the right time and acting decisively when it comes.

[discojoe]

I think this is a pretty good description. Honestly, I've experienced the extreme end of two super-dedicated individuals (SLE/IEI) who will absolutely not ever cheat on eachother. It's better to be open about what you're doing and who you're attracted to than not. :redface: You're both up to speed on what the other is going through, so if something happens you can both decide together on what course of action to take.

I try to be careful not to reveal that I find other people attractive. I want my gal to not ever feel jealous. Even if it's someone who's obviously really hot, I won't admit that I find them attractive, and I won't show any outward sign that I do, either.

[pluie]

yeah, but like, i could see why betas might be less likely to be so, statistically speaking... i get the idea that beta values encompass so much romantic intensity that its hard to resist perfect moments to just... fuck like theres no tomorrow. :] jaykay, kind of.

i know i personally consider myself very good at "falling in love" with almost anyone (not referring to sex btw); i definitely would never-- and maybe could never-- cheat physically, but can be emotionally disloyal, but not intentionally. that has to do with exactly what i said-- falling in love with so many people. its because i'm very good at taking on a very aesthetically awesome perspective on people. like infatuation. lol, maybe thats an easier way of saying all dat shite xP

anyways, this involves a lot of love for many people at once. so,thats why being monogamous is difficult. (specifically emotionally)

however, if i met a dual who had characteristics that scored very high on my mental extra compatiblity scale (i.e. sense of humor, self-presentation, looks, location, etc...), who was also specifically nearby... i think it would be remarkably easy to be monogamous.

also, i feel like.... based on my own values-- or at least specifically mine-- people i am really bonded too through physical intimacy (sex, kissing, you know), regardless of type, become moderately easy to stay loyal to. as a matter of fact, i think i am wired to idealize them so much (when i see we are less compatible with each other that i thought-- or i anything major that i don't like) to convince myself that i should just be patient and stick it out-- stay with them-- in hopes that it will grow in to something great. i think i do this because i am tend to be hesitant with my decisions-- especially important ones. also, i am just a wishful thinker and have a problem cutting myself off from lovers.

typically, this process ends up with me trying to understand this person immensely with me being my 100% self and them being theirs, since that's a very important aspect for me. this results in a lot of hurt feelings and misinterpretations between us. it doesn't work smoothly. i keep pushing though, idealizing them, and putting full faith into trying to get closer. essentially, i end up pushing them away. i think this may be subconsciously a way of making sure i hurt myself instead of hurt them. i push them away. (Victim thing?)

also, i think that spending enough physical time with someone probably makes it easier to be monogamous, based on human anatomy.

[leftylib]

I don't think I can live with such an (?) conception. Every instinct I have would tell me to give her the benefit of the doubt that she just made the wrong choice when choosing someone, then got too emotional and needed a cathartic release from the relationship.

My duals and activators are really emotional and need an environment to experiment and learn from their mistakes, so that's sort of perfect for them if it's type related after all.

I'm not sure how I'd react if I got cheated on though.

I really struggle with morality vs. understanding in that part of me thinks that basically cathartic release should come from resolving problems in the relationship and that screwing around just is a way to bypass problems (which doesn't solve them) and get ego gratification without having to examine yourself at all. And then part of me, as a woman, understands the burden of the idea of monogamy on men (and I feel it periodically myself, too, when attracted to other people, but I don't usually associate the attraction with problems in the relationship so I don't know if I'm full of shit or what).


Lefty
ENFJ
4w5

[leftylib]

I don't think SLEs are that bent on simply using and disposing of people (assuming that's what you're hinting at). to me, it seems they just want to maintain boundaries of freedom until they're certain what they've found will last. it breeds that attitude of blithe reactivity with a willingness to uproot everything in a moment, which I find refreshing and more reassuring than any personal commitment could be. just let each person move along without interference, and if your energies continue colliding as you spiral upward, cool. if you need someone else, that's a shackle.

Holy christ that's an incredibly uncomfortable balancing act. I just need some stuffy ISTJ who wants a sex slave and knows how to jerk off. lol.

Relating to the other post about how the poster doesn't have the strength to deal with this kind of ambiguity i thought of the John Waters quote "people who are shocked easily shoudl be shocked more often," but I'm so needy that it hurts me too to think about infidelity, but part of me recognizes what the INTP poster said which is that life isn't certain or forever (but who also said he or she wouldn't consider an open relationship) and so I start to wonder how unnatural is monogamy given our short life span.


Lefty
ENFJ
4w5

[leftylib]

I try to be careful not to reveal that I find other people attractive. I want my gal to not ever feel jealous. Even if it's someone who's obviously really hot, I won't admit that I find them attractive, and I won't show any outward sign that I do, either.

That is adorable and disturbing.