Expat = Alpha NT

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[Absurd]

Can a mod or admin merge it with the "most evil quadra" thread, DA made ?

[FDG]

That seems quite improbable. If you really want him to be a Ne/Si valuer, ESTj would be the only sensible option.

[xerx]

He has obviously weak and unvalued Fi and he's extremely uncompromising when it comes to correctness against consensus. He has a no-nonsense and straight to the point logic and a carefree set of ideas an theoretical preoccupations. I explain his "Fi seeking" through Si seeking. One of the examples - again - is his attachment to the character of Odysseus, return to your dear place.

He is? I thought he frequently promoted himself as part of the majority consensus.

[squark]

I agree with alpha NT, preferring LII as the most reasonable choice. A clear Enneagram 5 imo as well. Certainly not an 8.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[xerx]

Pied Piper, I was around for most of those quotes and more, and I distinctly recall that he promoted himself as part of the classical socionics consensus between him and the Royals.

[Krig the Viking]

I actually always kind of suspected he might be LII, as his explanations of socionics seemed logical and well-ordered and brimming with Ti. His posts seemed to be focused on the question of "What is the proper logical classification of this object's underlying nature?" (Ti+Ne) rather than "How can we increase the efficiency of this object so that it performs better over time?" (Te+Ni).

The major thing holding me back from actually going ahead and labelling him "LII" in my mental list of types, is the fact that he was highly intelligent and understood socionics better than the majority of people, making an error of self-typing very strange. So I usually just end up putting the problem on a shelf in the back of my mind somewhere, and labelling it "Re-open if Expat ever comes back".

[Absurd]

If a highly intelligent guy mistyped himself, he mistyped others in the process. Plain and simple. Anyone is pretending to the throne ?

[redbaron]

A clear Enneagram 5 imo as well. Certainly not an 8.

agreed.

I could buy LII for him. Where the hell is he anymore anyway?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[xerx]

Suit yourself, but a few quotes taken out of context won't override what's well known about this forum's politics.

Anyway, if you have access, I suggest you check out the socionics workshop, especially Expat's private forum (he goes by the name "Brock Landers"). He wrote a lot about his personal life there.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Pied Piper, you've taken those quotes completely out of context. He addressed those points when someone else had raised them, usually when that person themselves was pleading to an apparent consensus of the majority.

[crazedrat]

He doesn't have Ne in his speech. ENTj-Te has always worked for him in my mind. ESTj-Te is possible too, I guess. INTjs are much more playful and witty than expat, who's boring and authoritative.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[Not A Communist Shill]

The only such context can be found in the second the last quotations, not the others. Please provide quotes/evidence, otherwise it's pointless to talk.

The earlier quotes only show him stating his opinions about Socionics not being too empirical and yet there are some interpretations by some individuals which are palpably false even by its own standards. I think you fail to appreciate that he sees Socionics as a hobby horse, not something worth arguing with people who are seemingly stupid out of maliciousness.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Jarno]

Expat is 100% LIE-Te.

This thread however does prove nicely how people can easely interpretate IM totally wrong when trying to type writings. Not necesseraly the fault of the interpretator, but rather the difficulty of typing writings.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Are you joking? I doubt someone like him would waste his time if he had no strong interest in it. He stated that he talk to others about Socionics, he appears to have had a great interest and involvement, he met Reinin, etc. He did not even tried to profit from that to earn some sort of "credibility" to assume that he's actually intending to start a business.

"Relax and have fun with your 8th function - no worries"

[Krig the Viking]

Dunno, this is where I'm trying to figure out what happened, sometimes a slight mistakes in the understanding of certain facts may be enough to rot a certain area, not the whole. There are a lot of people who agree on the theory but not in typing others.

This is true. As I've said before, there are two main factors involved in typing people correctly: 1) Understanding socionics correctly, and 2) Understanding the personality of the subject correctly. A lot of people are good at one, but not the other.

Expat is 100% LIE-Te.

This thread however does prove nicely how people can easely interpretate IM totally wrong when trying to type writings. Not necesseraly the fault of the interpretator, but rather the difficulty of typing writings.

What evidence leads you, personally, to that typing? I like to accumulate as much evidence as possible from both sides before drawing conclusions.

[Jarno]

What evidence leads you, personally, to that typing? I like to accumulate as much evidence as possible from both sides before drawing conclusions.

I've met him in germany.

There was nothing that made me think he was not an LIE-Te. Dominated the meeting by talking the most and all the time. And he's quite authorative. But not in a bad way.

[Krig the Viking]

I've met him in germany.

There was nothing that made me think he was not an LIE-Te. Dominated the meeting by talking the most and all the time. And he's quite authorative. But not in a bad way.

So... he talked a lot and he had an authoritative manner. Was that what really decided you, or was there anything else?

[Gilly]

LIE. Met him in person. Blatant Te dominant, Narrator out the ass, very obvious Si PoLR. Not a typing I have any questions about whatsoever.

[Creepy-cinq]

I'm a chemical engineer whose job includes trying to communicate technical matters to non-technical folks. It's extremely disheartening when I make a point about all organic compounds being treated in a specific way etc, and someone objecting with "what are you talking about? Organic? That's not natural, so it's not organic!" And then I have to explain that the person has no idea of what "organic compounds" really are, which said person may not be willing to accept.

I could use "carbon-based" instead of "organic", but if I use the term "carbon-based" the same kinds of people will start thinking about how evil carbon is etc and totally derail the discussion.

Right from line one of this quote suggests . Chemical engineering is an applied science and this implies applying concepts, systems and processes to produce something efficient and effective.

Key thoughts/words for are - efficiency of an action, technical processes, the accomplishment of work, the efficient and prudent use of resources, factual accuracy, and the acquisition of relevant and useful information. Te understands the difference between effective and ineffective behavior when performing a procedure or accomplishing a task, and aspires to increase the frequency of productive outcomes within a system. - the Chemical engineering field is riddled with these types of thought processes.

Assuming Expat has worked as a Chemical Engineer for a good portion of his life, and this is compatible with this thought processing (ie he doesn't desperately long to be an 'artiste'), this fact weighs more than incidental posts on a forum taken out of context, that indicates fair but occasional use of his eighth function during his spare time. Regardless, he spent most of his time on the forum discussing the efficient and effective application of socionics - discussing, explaining, reformulating ideas, concepts using facts and experience to better convey the message - not that he is creating any system. This is not

By the way, PP, the fact that he doesn't actively post, could very well mean he has a life outside of this forum and doesn't have time to argue minutae, not that he withdraws like LII's do.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-cinq]

You didn't get it. The quote is relevant into how he deals with people, with explaining and how he views their reasoning. His job is irrelevant, what the hell are you rambling about?

No, what I wrote is quite clear. We've discussed this before endless times, and other members have pointed this out. You continue to pull shit out of context. Even my experiment designed for you demonstrates clearly that basing someone's type strictly on posts is not an effective method.

[Ezra]

This is the most laughable thread I've ever seen. I've met him in real life many times and he is a clear LIE. All real Gammas moved to socionics workshop, or are actually doing something productive/worthy in life.

[Ezra]

LIE. Met him in person. Blatant Te dominant, Narrator out the ass, very obvious Si PoLR. Not a typing I have any questions about whatsoever.

+1

Just out of interest though, you really see him and Ashton as the same type? Especially considering his reaction to Ashton (not to mention Ashton's reaction to him)?

[Krig the Viking]

Right from line one of this quote suggests . Chemical engineering is an applied science and this implies applying with concepts, systems and processes to produce something efficient and effective.

Key thoughts/words for is efficiency of an action, technical processes, the accomplishment of work, the efficient and prudent use of resources, factual accuracy, and the acquisition of relevant and useful information. Te understands the difference between effective and ineffective behavior when performing a procedure or accomplishing a task, and aspires to increase the frequency of productive outcomes within a system. - the Chemical engineering field is riddled with these types of thought processes.

Hm, yes, this is true. Either way, though, whether he's Alpha or Gamma he seems to be using a lot of Id functions. I'll file this in my "pro-Gamma" column.

To Ezra and those who have met Expat in person: you have an advantage that those of us who have not met him don't have. Why not describe some details of your interactions with him, instead of laughing at those with less information than you?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-cinq]

Hm, yes, this is true. Either way, though, whether he's Alpha or Gamma he seems to be using a lot of Id functions. I'll file this in my "pro-Gamma" column.

Sounds good. Correct my typos though before filing. :wink: Pardon me.

[Kim]

LIE. Met him in person. Blatant Te dominant, Narrator out the ass, very obvious Si PoLR. Not a typing I have any questions about whatsoever.

Same

[Kim]

Yeah this and how that information contradicts the conclusion which can be drawn from his own posts would be useful. People can mistype IRL too, it's no argument to say that "I met him IRL so I am right and you're wrong".

Maybe not, but so far it seems as if everyone who has met him in person is absolutely sure he is LIE.

Some impressions based on my interaction with him: lots of Te, but too oblivious of his surroundings to be LSE; definitely an extrovert; responds well to Fi and Se; uses lots of Te when advising someone (does not offer Si at all); looks elsewhere for Fi interpretations of situations or contexts and appreciates them greatly.

[Ezra]

Why not describe some details of your interactions with him, instead of laughing at those with less information than you?

Even on the forum it's obvious. You can look at all the online interactions yourself. Meeting him in life only confirmed his typing.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Gilly]

I read his story, he apparently was concerned about you and how you feel, etc. As I remember he said that you're fine but too concerned and disturbed, or something. That sounds more like Si valuing. I think that if he was really Si-PoLR he'd rather kinda think "wtf is the problem with this guy?" and try to stir you or something.

No, he was more concerned with where I was going with myself, that I might not take advantage of all my opportunities for personal advancement because of a need to deal with internal turmoil and such.

You didn't get it. The quote is relevant into how he deals with people, with explaining and how he views their reasoning. His job is irrelevant, what the hell are you rambling about?

Yeah I agree, his job is pretty irrelevant. But meeting him, that is relevant, and I tell you, I know many LIIs, and he is most definitely not one.

And when the fuck did you start pretending to be ESI.

[Kim]

The ridiculous of the situation is that all these people who boast to have met him in person fail to provide examples, *how* he used "Te" and "Ni" what demonstrates that? It's like saying "I worked all day long" but there's no trace of anything done. Are we reasonable people supposed to swallow your confession without using critical thinking? I don't think so.

Please elaborate, there's no evidence so far that he "used Te" with people. The strong and valued elements emerge from the personality and statements of someone, not the other way around. Nobody is impressed by the fact that you were at ground zero, but with what you understand from it.

Sorry...I don't have much else to brag about....

[Trevor]

Expat = Alpha NOT

[Jarno]

So... he talked a lot and he had an authoritative manner. Was that what really decided you, or was there anything else?

no those were just some examples.

What decided me was that he behaved like you would expect to see in a LIE-Te.