What's the most evil quadra?

[DirectorAbbie]

Who are the bad-guys and why?

[DirectorAbbie]

Last night I was insistant that Betas are evil. ****** is the classic example. Then my SLE brother reminded me that Brilliand had said Winston Churchil was a Beta, too. Brilliand claimed Gammmas were the most evil because, though Betas are the most likely to fight over the world, Gammas are the most likely to take over the world. He gave Napoleon as the bad-guy example.

[xerx]

Delta's playing their hussle game, secretly waiting for the day when they'll come out in full force to strike terror into the hearts of the socion.

[somavision]

Beta is I think, the quadra of good and evil in action, manifested in the outside world.
Delta is the quadra of good and evil within, tempered without.
Gamma materialistic indifference
Alpha, childish playfulness and unrealising cruelty.

Or not, maybe..innit.

Depends on what you mean by evil, I suppose.
Intentional acts, malicious indifference?
I think it's the choice of light and dark, high and low frequencies, fear and love. They are the same, fluid but different and the choices are personal not quadra related.
An evil beta extravert is maybe more likely to tap into the collective evil within a society and lead it as the figurehead - ******
Rather than an uncharismatic or insular evil person of an other type.

[FDG]

Aristocrats are generally more polarized, thus I'd say they're more likely to be "evil".

[Skeptic]

Well that's easy; deltas are for sure, without a doubt the most evil quadra there is.

[crazedrat]

I voted gamma because they're the ones who make the money and run the corporations.

[Jarno]

I voted gamma because they're the ones who make the money and run the corporations.

ah so the people who don't work and live from welfare are the good guys then.

[Crispy]

Evil should be evenly distributed throughout, but I voted beta because evil SLE's are more evil than most other evil types.

[Gilly]

Alpha is blithely careless evil
Beta is consumedly reckless evil
Gamma is deliberately greedy evil
Delta is willfully ignorant evil

[Kim]

Alpha is careless evil
Beta is reckless evil
Gamma is greedy evil
Delta is ignorant evil

[Gilly]

Well, more like wilfully ignorant. Like letting things go to shit because they refuse to accept that things need to change drastically.

[Gilly]

Updated for clarity:

Alpha is blithely careless evil
Beta is consumed, reckless evil
Gamma is deliberately greedy evil
Delta is willfully ignorant evil

[Kim]

Well, more like wilfully ignorant. Like letting things go to shit because they refuse to accept that things need to change drastically.

Do you have an example?

[Gilly]

Well it's kind of the archetypal flaw of Delta: thinking things are "running smoothly" in an immediate sense, while the big picture kind of crashes down on them. Think of it as the opposite of Betas, who let disregard for immediate circumstances force them to fumble in their long-term pursuits. Weak Ni vs. weak Si is what this comparison boils down to, mostly.

[Jarno]

Who are the bad-guys and why?

Extraverts are the bad guys, they try to dominate
Introverts are oke, they leave you alone
Sensors are boring
Intuitives are interesting
Feelers are oke, I like them
Thinkers are oke too
Judgers are annoying.
Perceivers are fun

[Airman]

Betas are more evil because they lead things to chaos even when they´re trying to improve.

Gamma can be evil because of their materialistic self-centeredness, they just don´t give a fuck abt anything in this sense they´re capable of doing evil to others.

Delta is not evil it is more like indifferent it does not want to see things as it is and fight, so in this sense can be evil by being unwilling to fight.

Alpha is evil as a child is, sometimes the most biting evil because cruel like children are, they just lose to Beta the title because Betas are dominant and lack humaneness and kindness and love, basic human values (unvalued Fi).

Although I have met some betas who were not like this, mostly ISTJs, at least they respect rules and healthy social customs.

[Jarno]

I don't know if it counts but alpha's are the biggest perverts

[Creepy-male]

Do you have an example?

I think what he is saying is the peaceful nature of deltas (Si + Fi) means they are likely to try to ignore imminent problems in order to try and maintain harmony. Like with social issues, they preserve the status quo because its secure and safe and doesn't lead to any risks and keeps people in harmony... but the status quo may not be the romantic ideal a beta has in mind. This could lead to betas revolting against a delta regime... its entirely possible the betas could end up making things worse, but their decisive nature (Se / Ni) makes it harder for them to sit still when they see something flawed with society. Deltas are more content to keep peace until they perceive an opportunity for change (Si / Ne)... this manifests itself as a more... lets just keep things steady until we can see a better prospect. Alphas have a similar (Si / Ne) nature but deltas grate on betas more because this is combined with Te and Fi... so deltas tend to not only perceive their realities in a foreign way to the beta, but they tend to make different conclusions which are based on factual statics/data/figures and a sense of Fi-emotionality.

To illustrate this, I remember having a good good IEI friend and we'd always say that we would see things differently but come to the same conclusions after some time... Looking back on this, I feel like it illustrates the common ground between alphas and betas... the rational elements, while the irrational ones are in contention.

[Gilly]

Betas are more evil because they lead things to chaos even when they´re trying to improve.

Gamma can be evil because of their materialistic self-centeredness, they just don´t give a fuck abt anything in this sense they´re capable of doing evil to others.

Delta is not evil it is more like indifferent it does not want to see things as it is and fight, so in this sense can be evil by being unwilling to fight.

Alpha is evil as a child is, sometimes the most biting evil because cruel like children are, they just lose to Beta the title because Betas are dominant and lack humaneness and kindness and love, basic human values (unvalued Fi).

Although I have met some betas who were not like this, mostly ISTJs, at least they respect rules and healthy social customs.

Thanks for stealing my shit.

[leckysupport]

IMO an example of Alpha evil:

Imagine a large, powerful, sensible and rational business with a stable long-term vision that "gives back to the community" on a regular basis and rewards its employees generously. A business which is a true credit to the community and run by a serious, moral and wise man with a enviable work ethic. Now imagine the complete opposite of that and that would represent Alpha to some degree.

So in terms of evil behaviour in individual Alphas:

*short-term scams
*cheating the system
*exploiting employees/innocents
*an aversion to any sort of altruism

Basically anything to undermine the values and principles of the business I described.

[Creepy-male]

Was that... a serious post?

[leckysupport]

Was that... a serious post?

Most of it.

[Logos]

Updated for clarity:

Alpha is blithely careless evil
Beta is consumed, reckless evil
Gamma is deliberately greedy evil
Delta is willfully ignorant evil

With Delta, I would go with condescendingly evil. If we are going with the sort of mythical quadras represent the four stages of humanity, then Delta would have a paternalistic evil in which they think that they know what's best for the security and well-being of the rest of humanity, which they view as naive.

[The Exception]

At the risk of sounding stereotypical, I voted for beta and gamma. Because those quadras value and I think to do some of those heinous evil things, requires some strong, valued .

[Gilly]

With Delta, I would go with condescendingly evil. If we are going with the sort of mythical quadras represent the four stages of humanity, then Delta would have a paternalistic evil in which they think that they know what's best for the security and well-being of the rest of humanity, which they view as naive.

mmm, that's more Gamma>Beta really. Delta is too localized for all that.

[Logos]

mmm, that's more Gamma>Beta really. Delta is too localized for all that.

Gamma does not have the aristocratic paternalism I am talking about.

[717495]

I have difficulty seeing my own quadra as evil, simply based on the people I know in real life who are in it, who don't really get the respect they deserve either and who seem more susceptible to manipulation and trickery, and this is often because of Fi and Te, not because Fi and Te are the only implicators of this. People who I've really disliked from time to time and thought were jerks, and the ones who manipulate, lie, misrepresent, trick, play unfair, pick at people, gang up, and make them feel bad for no reason, on the other hand, have most often been Beta. Can't say for sure more than 50% were Beta, just that Beta seems to be the most common quadra out of these "evil" people.

The thing I usually see these "evil" Betas do is try to act as the good guy, and make everyone else feel bad. Those good Gammas and Betas are usually good at coming in and clearing up that fallacy, and letting them know that we all have evil and selfish sides, and you shouldn't gang up and victimize someone just as innocent as you.

[Skeptic]

So eh, what criteria are people using to vote beta up so high? When I think of stereotypical beta I think of proactive revolutionaries leading followers into action to fight oppressive powers or the spearheading of an existing causes/powers that they believe in. In other words, a very active role in pushing personal systems.

I voted delta>beta because it is perhaps the most stereotypically 'content' of the quadras and this lack of involvement may hinder just movements or allow unjust movements to take place.

Not that this topic is reasonable at all; it's just that I fail to see why 'stereotypically' beta achieves more votes.

[Airman]

Beta is more evil because of unvalued , strong which gives them strength and which gives them coldness to carry out the atrocities.
A perfect combination for an SS-Einsatzgruppen or a Communist Army. In fact most Communists were and are Beta. I´d like to have this statistically proven.

[Marie84]

With Delta, I would go with condescendingly evil. If we are going with the sort of mythical quadras represent the four stages of humanity, then Delta would have a paternalistic evil in which they think that they know what's best for the security and well-being of the rest of humanity, which they view as naive.

That's more Ni/Se IMO

I agree with Gilly that Delta "evil" is more about a reluctance to change, as in playing a passive role in the whole of society. I could understand how other quadras, particularly Betas, may view this as a selfish way of life

And by change I'm not just referring to the progressive sense (i.e. far leftists, rebels), it could also be inverted change (i.e dogmatic, conservative) among other things.

[Logos]

Beta is more evil because of unvalued , strong which gives them strength and which gives them coldness to carry out the atrocities.
A perfect combination for an SS-Einsatzgruppen or a Communist Army. In fact most Communists were and are Beta. I´d like to have this statistically proven.

It's not hard to make such justifications for the evilness of quadras.

"Gamma is more evil because of strong valued creating moral absolutism, strong which gives them strength and + which gives them the ability to efficiently plan out their atrocities."

"Delta is more evil because of strong valued creating moral absolutism, strong which makes their moral vision idealistic and judge the world with impossibly high moral standards, and to coldly plan out their atrocities and unvalued that prevents them from seeing the long-term effects."

That's more Ni/Se IMO

Security and humanitarian idealism is a Delta theme.

[Marie84]

I voted delta>beta because it is perhaps the most stereotypically 'content' of the quadras and this lack of involvement may hinder just movements or allow unjust movements to take place.

I see what you mean, but it also depends on what one sees as showing contentment or lack of involvement.
I don't see Delta's as people who will, stereotypically, stand by and allow inhumanities to occur, they just may go about this more passively on a grand scale, so to speak
For example, I think The White Rose movement may have been a form of Delta resistance, using the weapon of guilt in a nonaggression, though direct, manner

[Marie84]

Security and humanitarian idealism is a Delta theme.

That's rather vague, it would not be hard to see these things as being equally applicable to Beta values as well
The difference, though, lays in Betas being comfortable with enforcing, or implementing (to be less biased) their idealism

[silverchris9]

Beta may be the most extreme quadra, and as such the most "evil" quadra, but also the most transformatively good quadra.

Any quadra can be evil. I think a big difference though, is that Fi-devaluing quadras will be more likely to violate norms and thereby perpetrate evil, and Fi-valuing quadras will be more likely to create evil norms. So, like, evil norms is like US slavery (not saying that there weren't gammas deltas who fought against slavery, but in general, I'm talking about the style of evil). The idea of slavery was that whites were allowed to treat blacks badly because blacks were not as human (and this is another of those "willful ignorance" things). It perpetrated an evil norm. Fi-devaluing quadras are more likely to do things that seem "horrible" by violating norms, often for the sake of intuition, either Ne believing that it's okay to commit atrocities in order to understand, or Ni believing in representation, that is, if my interior world is horrifying, I want to see that mirrored on the outside (this impulse is where a lot of serial killer activities come from, imo). Violating norms would be like a random act of murder, just to see if you can, like the Joker in The Dark Knight (a clear beta). That's a blatant and intentional disregard for basic norms that we all understand to be true.

It's easy to say that the person who breaks the norm in the first place is the evil one, but the people who follow and start to believe the lie, i.e., blacks aren't human, jews aren't human, [insert group here] isn't human, are also culpable in some fundamental way. I would say that each quadra must be complicit in large scale acts of evil for them to occur.

[Simon Ssmall]

I don't see Delta's as people who will, stereotypically, stand by and allow inhumanities to occur, they just may go about this more passively on a grand scale, so to speak

I agree only to a degree. Delta's are avers to drastic change, so sometimes they dont want to chage too much even when it is needed, they try to maintain status quo and do small gradual changes towards the better, build up slowly. Sometimes drastic changes are needed, especialy when you think of social problems.

Lets take a theoretical example of slavery: Imo Delta's would gradually give more and more rights to people and see how it affects the society while Betas would go all out, give all the rights without any limitations or give none, depending on prevailing theme. This does not mean Deltas do not care, they will voice their concerns of society, they do care, they just dont want to make anything drastic.

[xerx]

In some extreme cases, I think:

LII evil is about being detached from the concrete ramifications of your actions, usually basing them around some abstract ideology. Being so high up your ivory tower and only seeing how it's effecting others through a muggy telescope. Examples are Robespierre and the main antagonist in this film.

ILE evil is about wanting to experiment, create something new, and acquire as much knowledge as possible while ignoring social conventions about right and wrong eschewing traditional morality, or not caring about how your actions are hurting others altogether. A few of the Nazi scientists who experimented on still-living people during the holocaust may have had this motivation.

I think there's more to their evil than that, however.

[Airman]

Delta can be evil by imposing its own norms and high standards and then binding everyone together with these ( + ). Then there´s also an aspect which is very interesting which is Delta being essentially an Aesthetic quadra (strong , strong ) which can make for things such as 'Aryans are great'. Most of the concern with human beauty and not wanting any ugliness is totally Delta. So Nazism was in my opinion a very Delta regime, while it had of course many Betas in it because it was a revolution after all. But the strict norms and high standards of perfection are typical of and . So other ethnic groups which did not share such values to a degree were treated as sub-human because their values were just somewhat different. Delta has a very big problem with living with that which is different, it wants to normalize everyone to the 'good standard' of that time/place.

[717495]

I agree with Gilly that Delta "evil" is more about a reluctance to change, as in playing a passive role in the whole of society. I could understand how other quadras, particularly Betas, may view this as a selfish way of life.

It's more Betas hating on the conservativeness of Fi, from what I've seen, directed at Gammas and Deltas. Even some SEEs can be pretty disliked for their passive reluctance to change society, reflected by their peaceful demeanor--not that they're actually passive personalities in general.

Betas will certainly kill for a cause, so to speak.

[Airman]

A few of the Nazi scientists who experimented on still-living people during the holocaust may have had this motivation.

There was no such thing as "The Holocaust", there was a mass elimination of all sorts of human beings considered sub-human, not only jews and the 6 million figure is just a big LOL way too high, there were not more than 1 million jews murdered, which is already a high enough number.

But if you speak of 'the holocaust' you have to take into account and speak for the lives of communists, homosexuals, insane people, people with severe illnesses and deformities, gypsies, and all those germans who were against the regime. Then you can call this mass murder an 'holocaust' if you will, but jews have long enough exploited this term and the 6 million fraud in order to become untouchable in society, if you say anything criticizing them, you´re a 'nazi anti-semite', this is just ridiculous.